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Larry Brown overrated
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simrud
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8/8/2005  11:46 PM
Jackson is the biggest tagalong ever btw, you put any of the good coaches on a team with the best player arugably ever, or on a team with the two best players in the league and they will win a title or two.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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jaydh
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8/8/2005  11:47 PM
Posted by simrud:

So Phil Jackson being a good coach makes Larry Brown overrated, whats your point?

no just saying brown is not as good as phil like most warped knicks fans believe.
jaydh
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8/8/2005  11:48 PM
Posted by simrud:

Jackson is the biggest tagalong ever btw, you put any of the good coaches on a team with the best player arugably ever, or on a team with the two best players in the league and they will win a title or two.

lol, phil made jordan into the best ever. jordan wasnt winning until Phil came around.
simrud
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8/8/2005  11:49 PM
Thats bs man, Brown is by far better then Phil.

Brown took teams that were garbage and turned them into special teams.

You think Phil can come in and take the Clippers to the playoffs? Or make Nets a respectable team?

Guess what, he will never even try cauase he knows he can't.

I'm the last guy to say something is good just becaue its part of the Knick organization, but this time we should just be happy we got the best coach in the buiness and stop wining.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
tkf
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8/8/2005  11:50 PM
This is just typical. Had the knicks let brown get away, there would have been a outcry of how the knicks let the best coach in the NBA get away... This is just typical behavior around here... Brown is a great coach, period, he took the pistons(twice) and sixers to the finals and won with the pistons against phil Jackson's lakers.. Brown has transormed the careers of more players than anycoach I have seen. To say he is overrated is just ridiculous.
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
jaydh
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8/8/2005  11:53 PM
Posted by simrud:

Thats bs man, Brown is by far better then Phil.

Brown took teams that were garbage and turned them into special teams.

You think Phil can come in and take the Clippers to the playoffs? Or make Nets a respectable team?

Guess what, he will never even try cauase he knows he can't.

I'm the last guy to say something is good just becaue its part of the Knick organization, but this time we should just be happy we got the best coach in the buiness and stop wining.

definition on wining - alcoholic drink made from fermented grapes

OH! did you mean whining? i haven't seen any whining, just disagreeing. Brown didnt do anything special, both the nets and clippers werent as bad as you are making them out to seem. I'm definately happy we got brown, but you are all kidding yourselves if you believe he is better than Phil. Oooo, but he won on the college level so he must be better, lol.
rojasmas
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8/8/2005  11:56 PM
Exactly, Riley turned around the Knicks and the Miami Heat, you remember them, they won a lot before Riley got there. Furthermore, why is Brown better than George Karl? The Sonics never won until Karl got there and the Bucks were garbage before he got there.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
jaydh
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8/8/2005  11:57 PM
Posted by tkf:

This is just typical. Had the knicks let brown get away, there would have been a outcry of how the knicks let the best coach in the NBA get away... This is just typical behavior around here... Brown is a great coach, period, he took the pistons(twice) and sixers to the finals and won with the pistons against phil Jackson's lakers.. Brown has transormed the careers of more players than anycoach I have seen. To say he is overrated is just ridiculous.

they would have let a good coach get away, not the best. Wow, you mean he beat a Laker team that was falling apart and self-destructing. i didnt start this thread nor do i think LB is overrated, but to say he is the best in basketball is probably why this thread was started(since that is a stretch).

[Edited by - jaydh on 08/08/2005 23:58:32]
simrud
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8/8/2005  11:59 PM
Ah whatever, I'm goign to sleep, this is just going from stupid to stupider.

One dude decides to check spellin at 12 at night and another thinks Karl is better then Brown.

Unbeleveable - spell check that for me since you voluntreed to be my seceratry tonight jay.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
jaydh
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8/9/2005  12:01 AM
Posted by simrud:

Ah whatever, I'm goign to sleep, this is just going from stupid to stupider.

One dude decides to check spellin at 12 at night and another thinks Karl is better then Brown.

Unbeleveable - spell check that for me since you voluntreed to be my seceratry tonight jay.

way to back up your thoughts and ideas... good job! go to bed kiddo.
rojasmas
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8/9/2005  12:07 AM
Don't know why it's stupid. I supported my ideas and made good points about Karl. Brown is given credit for being the master of turnarounds but Riley did the same thing with the Knicks and Heat. Jackson hasn't I agree but ask Joe Torre how easy it's been to win with the best team the last four years. Brown's Indiana teams were pretty darn good with Reggie Miller, Smits, etc. They had as much talent as the Knicks with Ewing and Starks.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
rojasmas
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8/9/2005  12:10 AM
One more thing, how did Doug Collins do with Jordan and Pippen before Phil Jackson? They didn't win any championships did they?
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
jaydh
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8/9/2005  12:12 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

One more thing, how did Doug Collins do with Jordan and Pippen before Phil Jackson? They didn't win any championships did they?

exactly
OldFan
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8/9/2005  12:36 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

One more thing, how did Doug Collins do with Jordan and Pippen before Phil Jackson? They didn't win any championships did they?

Ok - so Jackson is a better coach then Doug Collins

Seriously though - I don't see why they can't both be great coaches. I'm pretty happy to get Brown - I don't care if he's over-rated, under-rated or un-rated - as long as he does the job.
Rich
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8/9/2005  12:38 AM
Compared to Phil Jackson, Larry is underrated.
bobs3304
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8/9/2005  12:42 AM
Jackson and Brown are polar opposites as far as coaching is concerned.


Phil is more of a mediator. He expects players to teach THEMSELVES, to learn from their own mistakes. You can't do that with rookies, which is why at every coaching job he's inherited loads of talent that happen to be missing direction.

Brown expects players to do EXACTLY what he says. He's not a mediator; he likes to get down and dirty and just teach, regardless of the talent level.

Phil specializes in fine-tuning a situation while Brown is known for revitalizing a losing team. Phil inherits teams that are already good. Brown usually takes on franchises that plain SUCK.

I'd give Brown more credit, but both are the best at what they do. Phil's tenures last far longer, but require less "heavy lifting". So it depends how you look at it. For our situation though, Brown is the OBVIOUS choice. We do NOT have an Mj and Pippen on this roster.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
tkf
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8/9/2005  12:56 AM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by tkf:

This is just typical. Had the knicks let brown get away, there would have been a outcry of how the knicks let the best coach in the NBA get away... This is just typical behavior around here... Brown is a great coach, period, he took the pistons(twice) and sixers to the finals and won with the pistons against phil Jackson's lakers.. Brown has transormed the careers of more players than anycoach I have seen. To say he is overrated is just ridiculous.

they would have let a good coach get away, not the best. Wow, you mean he beat a Laker team that was falling apart and self-destructing. i didnt start this thread nor do i think LB is overrated, but to say he is the best in basketball is probably why this thread was started(since that is a stretch).

[Edited by - jaydh on 08/08/2005 23:58:32]

My point is not that Brown is the best, but if he was not hired by the knicks, then there would be many that say he is the best. For instance, Q richardson was a big reason why the suns won 62 games, now his is a bench bum, no better than Raja bell. Stephon marbury before he came to the knicks, was a elite player, a player we could never get, now tht he is with the knicks, he is a malcontent loser. Crawford before he came to the knicks was considered young talent that the knicks would never get, now that he is on the knicks, he is a out of control, low IQ chucker....

Get the picture now?


[Edited by - tkf on 08/09/2005 00:58:55]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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8/9/2005  1:04 AM
Posted by tkf:

My point is not that Brown is the best, but if he was not hired by the knicks, then there would be many that say he is the best. For instance, Q richardson was a big reason why the suns won 62 games, now his is a bench bum, no better than Raja bell. Stephon marbury before he came to the knicks, was a elite player, a player we could never get, now tht he is with the knicks, he is a malcontent loser. Crawford before he came to the knicks was considered young talent that the knicks would never get, now that he is on the knicks, he is a out of control, low IQ chucker....

Get the picture now?

that does seem to happen in ny - not just with the knicks but with EVERY TEAM here. it's the constant nyc "what have you done for me lately" mindset and speaks for the overall impatience and fickleness of the fan base here.
simrud
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8/9/2005  7:01 AM
Lets get somethign straight here, aside from the dumb argument about winning percentages, no coach other then Riley and Jackson have gotten any reasonable arguments in their favor on this thread.

Comparing George Karl to Brown because he happens to have a similar or better career winning percentage is just plain dumb.

Karl has not accomplished nearly as much and he certinly doestn have quite the same track record for turning around terrible situations.

This is just basic basketball knowledge, you can seat there and try to look like a smart guy by saying something that only you and one of your halfwit buddies would agree with but its doesnt make it any less outrageous.

There are three coaches in the NBA right now that are clearly the best, Jackson, Brown and Riley.

Riley is not even coaching anymore, and the last job he had, the Heat was not exactly a smashing sucess. He has not won a title with anything but the showtime Lakers, which were loaded. So I say Brown is better then him. At least thats a arguable unlike the absolutley moronic idea that somehow Karl and Adelman are just as good or better then Brown.

Jackson takes estabslihed talent and wins with it, but he can't do anything w/out the talent. Brown can take crap, and take it to the playoffs, or take somewhat talented, but in no way loaded rosters deep in the playoffs or even win, as in Sixers and Pistons. Only somebody with an agenda of not liking Brown for non basketball realated reasons would argue that he is not the better coach for the Knicks then Jackson.

So now tell me what is it that you got against Brown really or are you just got gonna pretend you are just makin this thread for the heck of it, because somehow you fealt bad for the rest of the coahces in the NBA that Brown is apparently "overrated"?

[Edited by - simrud on 08/09/2005 07:01:47]

[Edited by - simrud on 08/09/2005 07:02:48]
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Pharzeone
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8/9/2005  8:57 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by martin:

Let's see Phil Jackson's record with only Kobe.
And really, Kobe is one of the best players in the NBA. Jerry Sloan had Stockton and Malone and Rick Adelman had a really good team with Webber, Bibby and Peja. Larry Brown's best player so far was Allen Iverson who is not better overall than Kobe.

To me that really sums up Sloan's coaching career. If we are ready to excused his losing ways now because of no Malone or Stockton. Why not look at his career while those guys were there too and say maybe it wasn't that good of a coach and the Laydens were better gms. Rick to me is not on LB's class because other than his Portland team with Clyde, those teams choked badly. But I have him rated better than Sloan. Karl is a very good coach but his teams fall apart badly, don't forget his Sonic teams that exited the playoffs in the 1st round two years in a row.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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