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Roster Problems -- As far As Larry Brown is Concerned
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Pharzeone
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8/4/2005  3:10 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by Pharzeone:

That trade is horrible. That is all.


^.... Care to expand on that. Or you short on words today....

well smart***, I think it just one sided trade. Please explain why the Knicks need Wright, and why Watson is worth more than the MLE, especially with you acquiring the 21st pick. Do you think this guy is going to get DNP. There is this notion that LB will be calling shots and is a misconception. He didn't call the shots in Philly, he didn't call the shots in Detroit, he only had coaching decisions and played who he had. They allowed him input but it is not the Riley deal, first off because they know his history. I don't believe for one second that IT will make what he view as impact decisions based on LB, who could be out of here next season.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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fishmike
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8/4/2005  3:11 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by Pharzeone:

That trade is horrible. That is all.


^.... Care to expand on that. Or you short on words today....
both players you get back suck. Watson and Wright? What.. do you really miss Charlie Ward and Anthony Bonner that much?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
bobs3304
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8/4/2005  3:13 PM
Not to start beef, but you couldn't be more wrong. Larry has had players traded everywhere he's been. Not sure where you're getting your information from.


Other thing is your perception of what a "good" trade is. If anything, Memphis is selling low and buying high, which was evident in that last debotchery(Sp?) of a trade.

Why Wright - great backup Center. Period.

Why Watson - please re-read this entire thread.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Pharzeone
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8/4/2005  3:15 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Not to start beef, but you couldn't be more wrong. Larry has had players traded everywhere he's been. Not sure where you're getting your information from.


Other thing is your perception of what a "good" trade is. If anything, Memphis is selling low and buying high, which was evident in that last debotchery(Sp?) of a trade.

Why Wright - great backup Center. Period.

Why Watson - please re-read this entire thread.
Tell me what player LB wanted traded in Detroit that Dumars wasn't on board with????

[Edited by - pharzeone on 08/04/2005 15:15:59]
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
bobs3304
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8/4/2005  3:16 PM
Posted by fishmike:

both players you get back suck. Watson and Wright? What.. do you really miss Charlie Ward and Anthony Bonner that much?


For a poster that's been here for 3 years, I'd expect a better response from you.

Earl Watson is one of the best perimeter-defensive PG's in the league.

Lorenzen Wright could easily be a starting Center. He and James could split time evenly.


If anything, that would be unfair for Memphis, but at this point, they're not in a position to bargain with other teams...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08/04/2005 15:16:39]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Pharzeone
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8/4/2005  3:17 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by fishmike:

both players you get back suck. Watson and Wright? What.. do you really miss Charlie Ward and Anthony Bonner that much?


For a poster that's been here for 3 years, I'd expect a better response from you.

Earl Watson is one of the best perimeter PG's in the league.

Lorenzen Wright could easily be a starting Center. He and James could split time evenly.


If anything, that would be unfair for Memphis, but at this point, they're not in a position to bargain with other teams...

So now we are concerned about James' backup. I thought James was brought he to backup Frye. So what's next, we get someone to back up JYD?
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
bobs3304
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8/4/2005  3:18 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Tell me what player LB wanted traded in Detroit that Dumars wasn't on board with????

[Edited by - pharzeone on 08/04/2005 15:15:59]


Not being a Piston fan as I'm not, I don't keep up with EVERY trade they do. Larry's been there for 2 years. But I can tell you for a fact that in his 30 year career, he's known for not being shy when it comes to having players traded...

An example from Philly, who was closer to our situation then Detroit was when he took over - Timmy: gone. Hughes: gone.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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8/4/2005  3:19 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

So now we are concerned about James' backup. I thought James was brought he to backup Frye. So what's next, we get someone to back up JYD?


You've been under the impression that James was brought in to backup Frye...and not only that, but that Frye is a Center???



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08/04/2005 15:19:26]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
djsunyc
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8/4/2005  3:21 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by fishmike:

both players you get back suck. Watson and Wright? What.. do you really miss Charlie Ward and Anthony Bonner that much?


For a poster that's been here for 3 years, I'd expect a better response from you.

Earl Watson is one of the best perimeter-defensive PG's in the league.

Lorenzen Wright could easily be a starting Center. He and James could split time evenly.


If anything, that would be unfair for Memphis, but at this point, they're not in a position to bargain with other teams...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08/04/2005 15:16:39]

for a guy that gets upset about people talking about getting these big name free agents, you sure are hung up in bringing in some sub par players.

why can't you wait a few months and see how the chips fall?

what if sweetney is a beast this year? i think right now, he's better than all those players you mentioned. what? you think i'm crazy? well i think you're crazy for being on watson's tip so hard.
Pharzeone
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8/4/2005  3:22 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Tell me what player LB wanted traded in Detroit that Dumars wasn't on board with????

[Edited by - pharzeone on 08/04/2005 15:15:59]


Not being a Piston fan as I'm not, I don't keep up with EVERY trade they do. Larry's been there for 2 years. But I can tell you for a fact that in his 30 year career, he's known for not being shy when it comes to having players traded...

An example from Philly, who was closer to our situation then Detroit was when he took over - Timmy: gone. Hughes: gone.

Any head coach should have an input in player transactions. Like "we need to go after this guy to shore up our defense or this guy will fit our offense" But any decent GM will either sign off on the thought or tell the coach nope we will not be pursuing this guy. IT already came out and said that the young players isn't going anywhere. Craw ain't moving, Marbs ain't going, Ariza ain't going. He isn't going to use TT $14 million expiring contract on Earl Watson, and Wright, come on.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
eViL
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8/4/2005  3:23 PM
Everytime I read this dude's posts, all I can think of is: Bob's Sneaker Corner.

Anyway, I think Dido might have found his match. We now have a bonafide psychic tandem on this board. While Dido can read Isiah's mind, Bob's Sneaker Corner can read Larry Brown's mind. It's awesome...

My opinion is that you don't mess with the team right now, unless a no-brainer of a trade comes along. Despite our abundance of undersized PF's, we've actually got a somewhat balanced roster (with talent, youth, atleticism and some vets).
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
bobs3304
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8/4/2005  3:24 PM
If I can't convince anyone about the present condition of our backcourt, then I guess we have to agree to disagree. We'll see how everything pans out soon enough...


Oh, and not that Sweetney won't improve this year, but with all the PF's we have, especially Rose and Frye, he is a bit redundant and expendable.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
djsunyc
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8/4/2005  3:25 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Oh, and not that Sweetney won't improve this year, but with all the PF's we have, especially Rose and Frye, he is a bit redundant and expendable.

he's not redundant b/c he's the only one with a true post up game and can get to the line at a frequent pace. closest guy to him is mo taylor - and we all agree that he's a bum.
bobs3304
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8/4/2005  3:26 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

He isn't going to use TT $14 million expiring contract on Earl Watson, and Wright, come on.


I love how Knick fans DEMAND expiring contracts be used ONLY on make-belive, unrealistic, Super-star, blockbuster trades.

Oh, and just for the record, Wright is an expiring contract, and Watson will get around the MLE no matter who gets him.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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8/4/2005  3:28 PM
Posted by djsunyc:


he's not redundant b/c he's the only one with a true post up game and can get to the line at a frequent pace. closest guy to him is mo taylor - and we all agree that he's a bum.

That's true. And he could become a legitimate post presence. But he's a slow defender, and foul prone.

Mo Taylor is Sweetney without the rebounds. And with the plethora of PF's we already have, his rebounding won't be sorely missed. Moving Timmy in this deal along with Sweets allows us to move Q Rich to SF, who is a solid rebounder himself...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Pharzeone
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8/4/2005  3:29 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

If I can't convince anyone about the present condition of our backcourt, then I guess we have to agree to disagree. We'll see how everything pans out soon enough...


Oh, and not that Sweetney won't improve this year, but with all the PF's we have, especially Rose and Frye, he is a bit redundant and expendable.
The roster is not great but I don't think LB will have that type of input. Players will be acquired with and without his blessing as long as IT is the GM. You maybe right about how LB feels about the current roster but it was explained to him before he signed on that he will be coaching this team and not running which he claims he doesn't want to do since Philly. Isn't that why Billy King was promoted there. LB says he just want to coach.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
fishmike
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8/4/2005  3:47 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by fishmike:

both players you get back suck. Watson and Wright? What.. do you really miss Charlie Ward and Anthony Bonner that much?


For a poster that's been here for 3 years, I'd expect a better response from you.

Earl Watson is one of the best perimeter-defensive PG's in the league.

Lorenzen Wright could easily be a starting Center. He and James could split time evenly.


If anything, that would be unfair for Memphis, but at this point, they're not in a position to bargain with other teams...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08/04/2005 15:16:39]
I saw Watson play 15-20 games last year. He's not good. He cant shoot, he's a lousy playmaker for a PG. One of the premier defenders? Really? Fratello put him on Nash late in games after JW had been playing great and Nash lit him up. He's a good defender that plays very hard and has become a solid backup. He's a younger Charlie Ward. I'm sorry your upset, but if you think Watson is as good as you say you either a) havent seen him but a couple games or b) are a piss poor judge of talent. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and go with a. I asked my friend who watches every minute of every Memphis game if Watson is usually that bad and his response was "worse."

Watson is a player with limited talent who's stuck because he works hard. He's the Brian Cardinal of PGs. Sorry... no thanks.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
bobs3304
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8/4/2005  4:10 PM
You hit it right on the nose.


Well, that's you and your bois' opinion, but there are alot of guys out there that think the complete opposite.


I'm only going by what I've read, b/c, like most people, I don't actually have time to watch the Memphis friggin Grizzlies.

So for now I'll have to take the high road and agree with all those NBA beat writers that think he's a solid perimeter defender.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
fishmike
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8/4/2005  4:46 PM
hey thats cool. Look at 82games.com
There's good info on players that you dont get from just looking at their stat sheets, like opposing player production and production by position.

http://www.82games.com/0405NYK5.HTM

Take a look at this, I think it puts some things into perspective. Like as bad as Jamal was at defending other SGs we were only outscored there by 1.8 points a night. On the flip side at PG we outscored the opponent by 3.8 a night. Combine them and over 82 games our backcourt out played their opponent by the tune of 2 points a night. Not too shabby considering how bad you think they seem.

The other position we were ok in was center. I know it seems crazy but Nazr and later KT were very productive and we were about even there. The place we got killed were at the forwards. -4 at SF/PF for a combined -8. Thats a disaster. Its not rocket science either. PF is an elite position and we didnt have one last year. As for SF well Tim shot about 38% for the first half and not much better after that. Add to it the East is loaded with good swing players.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
bobs3304
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8/4/2005  4:56 PM
Using your site:


Watson and Snow Vs. Marbury and Crawford (and why a guy like that would really shore up our backcourt)

Net Points Per 100 Possessions

Marbury: -1.3

Crawford: -4.3

Watson: +5.4

Snow: +3.3

Meaning that Crawford, despite his own offensive production, still gave up more than 4 PPG from the opposing guard(s). Marbury just over a point. Watson actually stopped the opposing guard enough to score 5 more points than him/them, and he's not known as a scorer, so he must be a pretty solid defender.

Also, when Marbury comes off the floor, our backcourt defense gets even worse, falling from -1.3 to -13.6, whereas when Crawford is subbed out, the defense slightly improves, from -4.3 to -1.2.

I realize there are other factors to account for here, but if we're going by the same stats, Watson and Snow are clearly the better defenders.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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