Posted by Marv:

I'm sure they'll announce which game it will be and you can cover your ears and curl up in a ball under the covers like I do when the 4th of July fireworks are going off!!

But I would cheer him on too! I'd be really happy to see doing well for himself in another uniform.

Posted by WOODMANnYk:

We'll all know by Aug 15th.. This will forever change Allan's Houston's career as a Knick or even his NBA career..

It's ashamed how he got injured with the knee

When healthly, he was very productive with that sweet stroke...

Im sure the organization are not just gonna waive him like that.. Isiah and Knick mgmt will talk to him first before making the final decision.. They owe that to him...

[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 07/31/2005 08:11:21]

i'd be shocked if they didnt amnesty him - they save something like 50 million on him over the next two years in luxury tax, and he still gets paid. the only reason now to amnesty him is if the knicks capologists are 100% sure that there will be NO luxe tax. because either way they still have to pay his salary... who knows though... he was huge in the orlando game last season, the team plays so much better with him...

on another topic - i wonder why we arent going after Hunter with our 1.7 mil midlevel exception - hmm. maybe because thomas wants Frye to develop instead of having Hunter steal those minutes.

I thought the deadline was supposed to be Oct 1?

I say if allan looks like he's got anything left in the tank, waive Penny. Penny is truly done.

Allan, if he can be out on the court, is the only player on this squad that is a legit threat from outside.

Don't talk to me about Crawford and Q- both shot 38% from the field. That is an ugly number.

I know Larry's rhetoric about how he respects houston etc. may be all talk and may be him trying to persuade allan to retire, but what if the knicks decide to just cut their losses and use the amnesty on shandon anderson? They save pretty much the same amount of money as they would by waiving penny but it clearly makes more sense to use the amnesty clause on Shandon considering he isn’t even on the team anymore. If they wave Maurice taylor, who doesn’t seem like a larry brown kind of guy, the knicks save 20 million. I know 40 million is a lot and it’s called the ‘allan houston rule’ but if allan can play 15 minutes a game as a shooter to spread the floor hes a lot more useful than Maurice taylor as our 6th power forward, and definitely more beneficial than keeping anderson on the payroll. and I obviously don’t think the roster spot it would open up is that crucial, if we are dying to get another player on the roster they can cut a guy like bruno sundov

[Edited by - nyballer on 08/01/2005 16:25:40]

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by nyballer:

I know 40 million is a lot

Thats all that matters to Dolan.

the thing is he could get SOMETHINg out of those 40 million dollars. if he cuts houston, he saves 40 million but hes still paying another 40 million for absolutely nothing. by using the clause on shandon anderson, he saves 15 million but loses nothing.

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by nyballer:

the thing is he could get SOMETHINg out of those 40 million dollars. if he cuts houston, he saves 40 million but hes still paying another 40 million for absolutely nothing. by using the clause on shandon anderson, he saves 15 million but loses nothing.

Its easy to say save $15mil instead of $40mil when its not your money. You dont know that Alan Houston can play anymore. Its his money and I think he believes Houston is done. In his mind the $40mil are gone anyway so he loses nothing and save $40mil with which he can pay Larry Brown.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 08/01/2005 16:33:29]

I understand...but if Dolan was so tight with his money why would he let Isiah go and get Maurice Taylor? i know nobody understands the deal in the first place, but obviously Dolan is willing to spend money if he thinks it can help the team in any way. we may not like dolan's involvement in the team but we should appreciate how much money he is willing to put into it. The reason i brought this up is because it seems like larry brown would be against using the amnesty clause on houston - if this is the case i don't know if dolan will want to start off the relationship by going against his wishes and cutting houston. i think ultimately LB will decide if houston is healthy enough to play and if he will be on the team next year.

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by nyballer:

I understand...but if Dolan was so tight with his money why would he let Isiah go and get Maurice Taylor? i know nobody understands the deal in the first place, but obviously Dolan is willing to spend money if he thinks it can help the team in any way. we may not like dolan's involvement in the team but we should appreciate how much money he is willing to put into it.

Exactly my point. He can pay Mo Taylor even if there is a slight chance he will help but wants to waive Houston because he believes there is no chance Houston will help.

The reason i brought this up is because it seems like larry brown would be against using the amnesty clause on houston - if this is the case i don't know if dolan will want to start off the relationship by going against his wishes and cutting houston.

I think it was you who said it was rhetoric. Thats exactly what it is, rhetoric.

i think ultimately LB will decide if houston is healthy enough to play and if he will be on the team next year.

Makes no sense. Why would LB decide if Houston is healthy enough to play? Why would anyone decide that? If Houston is healthy enough to play, he will play. If he is not, then he wont.

Houston may be able to come back and play a limited role - part of the reason he got hurt again was because they forced him into more time because Crawford got hurt. Someone needs to determine if houston is healthy or not - if they cut him, he won't play for us, healthy or not - so i don't really understand what you were saying there. Anyway, if Lb wants houston around I think we might use the amnesty clause on shandon. I think our difference in opinion stems from whether or not we think Houston is done. I don't think the chances are great, but if the knicks think he can play at all, even in a very limited role, i think houston doesn't get cut.

Even at 100 per cent Allan Houston cannot play the type of defense that Brown will demand

At 85 to 90 per cent Allan Houston is toast

"Popcorn and gangbanging don't mix!"

Why wasn't Scott Layden a gangbanger?

At 100%, Houston doesn't suck on D, but I would say he's about at the same level as Marbury, Crawford and Q. Major weaknesses are getting caught in screens and stuff and losing their guys backdoor, but on the ball, the 4 of them are alright. However, the Houston of the past 2 years wouldn't get more than ohhh, 20 mpg under Larry Browns system, if he were able to get on the court in the first place. However, like most teams, I think he'd save him for the end of games.

However, it's clear that Houston wont be the same guy he was when he dropped 53 on Kobe so lets get rid of that pipedream.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/03/sports/basketball/03knicks.html

August 3, 2005
Alterations Continue for Knicks
By JOHN ELIGON

Isiah Thomas, the Knicks' president of basketball operations, acknowledged yesterday that the team would most likely would take advantage of a provision in the new collective bargaining agreement that allows teams to waive a player without having to pay the luxury tax on his remaining salary.

This could mean the end of Allan Houston's time with the Knicks. Waiving him would make financial sense because he has a large contract to go with a battered body that has kept him off the court for most of the past two seasons.

Houston will be the highest-paid Knick over the next two seasons, making about $40 million. But he played only 20 games last season and 50 the season before that.

If the Knicks waive Houston, his salary would still count toward the cap, but they would not have to pay a luxury tax on it, saving them $40 million.

But Thomas said the team was still discussing how it would use the provision, known as the amnesty rule.

"We'll still talk about it," Thomas said during a meeting with reporters in which he also officially announced the signing of the free agent Jerome James from Seattle. "We'll continue to monitor Allan's progress. It's a hard call."

One factor that could make it difficult to part ways with Houston is he has a close relationship with James L. Dolan, the chairman of Madison Square Garden and the president of Cablevision, which owns the Knicks.

The amnesty rule is a one-time deal and each team is allowed to use it on only one player. The N.B.A. recently moved the deadline for amnesty decisions up to Aug. 15 from Oct. 1, so the Knicks would likely not have an opportunity to put Houston through workouts before making a decision.

Houston is not the only player who would be a viable option for the Knicks to let go. Anfernee Hardaway, who has one year left on his contract, worth about $15.7 million, also has had injury problems and fell out of favor last season, frustrated over his role.

Among the Knicks' big men, power forward Maurice Taylor probably has the best offensive ability. But his defense and rebounding are suspect, something that most likely will not please Coach Larry Brown.

Taylor is part of a Knicks logjam at power forward. The others are Jerome Williams, Malik Rose, Mike Sweetney and the rookie David Lee.

Williams and Rose are scrappy, defensive-minded forwards, suitable to the style of play Brown implemented in Detroit. Sweetney and Lee are still young and the team most likely will bank on them for the future, leaving Taylor as the most expendable power forward.

If they want to keep their current lineup, the Knicks could use the amnesty rule on Shandon Anderson's contract. The Knicks actually waived Anderson during the first half of last season, but his contract - about $14 million over the next two years - is still on the books. The collective bargaining agreement allows a team to use its amnesty to waive a player whom it already has released.

Thomas acknowledged the possibility of acquiring a player released by another team, but with the signing of James, the Knicks have limited free-agent options for the rest of this off-season.

James, who started 80 games with Seattle last season and averaged 4.9 points and 3.5 rebounds, said he looked forward to being the Knicks' leader at center. James has played second fiddle for most of his five-year career, playing his rookie season in Sacramento and the past four in Seattle.

Thomas said he was impressed with James's shot-blocking ability (he averaged 1.4 last season) and his big body. At 7 feet 1 inch, 280 pounds, he is now the only true center with N.B.A. experience that the Knicks have.

James's statistics can be deceiving, Thomas said, saying that when he stays out of foul trouble, he can be a very effective player.

"At this point in my career I wanted to move to the next level," James said. "I'm very comfortable playing a supporting role, but I wanted to not only hold myself more accountable for what I believe I can bring to the game of basketball, but for an organization to demand more from me. The Knicks presented me that opportunity."