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Here is a cap savings way to get Miles
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gunsnewing
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7/29/2005  4:11 PM
crawford is a SG trapped in a PG's body. If he's ever going to be a starter in this league I still think he's best suited at PG because of his ability to create off the dribble and push the ball as opposed to a guy like Q. So hopefully we trade Crawford to a team that could use his services. Crawford to the Nuggets for Nene would be phenomenal!
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bobs3304
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7/29/2005  4:12 PM
Posted by fishmike:

exactly.. and at 25 Billups and Hamilton had much the same knocks as Crawford. Billups was what? 3 teams in 2 years before Det? Too erratic, couldnt run an offense, only a scorer. Rip was too skinny to play 2 and too one dimensional to be anything more than a good bench player at 25. Both found coaches and systems that worked for them and they thrived. Same thing with Larry Hughes who had similar shows of great play like Jamal, but also had similar knocks.

There's 3 players that improved at 25.. now name me 15 that were that good and didnt.

Miles is a headache and not a Larry Brown player, but Sheed did ok. Marbury and Crawford are chuckers but Iverson won an MVP under Larry and the two had a great working relationship. Derrick Colman was one of Larry's favorite players, as was Reggie Miller who wasnt exactly mr. defense passing or rebounding.

This whole "Larry Brown" type player is media fodder. The only guy who knows who on our roster is a Larry Brown type player is LB himself, and he probably wont even know that until Thanksgiving.

LB gave up on Larry Hughes, but LOVED Derrick Coleman.

You just dont know


solid arguement. i buy your point, but i'm still iffy about Crawford b/c he DID have a good coach in Scott Skiles, and he never really bought into HIS system, so what convinces you that he will with Brown? Also, if anything, Rip was always known as a solid shooter, and Billups an average defender that could shoot and pass. Crawford isn't a consistent shooter, especially from deep (where Billups and Rip were and still are), and he's not even close to an average defender, which, like I said, Billups always was.

From my point of view, Crawford is a player with multiple skills and no specialty.


[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/29/2005 16:13:32]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Nalod
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7/29/2005  4:16 PM
I hate that Miles totally went off on a racial tirade against Mo cheeks!

LB is a very demanding presence and will wear down many a player with stonger charactor than A Darious Miles!

Granted, its all what I read and don't know the dude at all!

WHy not just give Reezy more time to become the animal we want him to be? Why do we need to do it all NOW? If larry is on board for 4 years, Barring any health problems, lets just go on that. Forget his past, he is really not going anywhere after this gig! Maybe to the big court in the sky! He may need a month off here and there, and may miss a road trip from time to time, but this is the gig.

I can be patient with Reezy, but prefer not to with Miles.
nyk4ever
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7/29/2005  4:16 PM
Posted by bobs3304:


solid arguement. i buy your point, but i'm still iffy about Crawford b/c he DID have a good coach in Scott Skiles, and he never really bought into HIS system, so what convinces you that he will with Brown? Also, if anything, Rip was always known as a solid shooter, and Billups an average defender that could shoot and pass. Crawford isn't a consistent shooter, especially from deep (where Billups and Rip were and still are), and he's not even close to an average defender, which, like I said, Billups always was.

From my point of view, Crawford is a player with multiple skills and no specialty.


[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/29/2005 16:13:32]

Don't forget about this with Rip either. Rip is used to being coached becuase he played for Jim Calhoun and I don't think any player will tell you that is an easy task. Rip was coachable for Larry because Rip can be coached, I don't know if you can say the same thing about Craw for the same exact reasons that you listed Bob. Craw didn't buy into Skiles system which was shown to work as evidenced by last year and I don't even know who coached Craw in college, I don't think Tommy Amaker was at Michigan yet, was he?

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07/29/2005 16:17:21]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Nalod
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7/29/2005  4:28 PM
Funny, Craw and Marbs both were coached by Skiles!
gunsnewing
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7/29/2005  4:30 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Funny, Craw and Marbs both were coached by Skiles!

and both hated him & his system lol

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07/29/2005 16:30:47]
BRIGGS
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7/29/2005  4:31 PM
Posted by Nalod:

I hate that Miles totally went off on a racial tirade against Mo cheeks!

LB is a very demanding presence and will wear down many a player with stonger charactor than A Darious Miles!

Granted, its all what I read and don't know the dude at all!

WHy not just give Reezy more time to become the animal we want him to be? Why do we need to do it all NOW? If larry is on board for 4 years, Barring any health problems, lets just go on that. Forget his past, he is really not going anywhere after this gig! Maybe to the big court in the sky! He may need a month off here and there, and may miss a road trip from time to time, but this is the gig.

I can be patient with Reezy, but prefer not to with Miles.


If you look at Darius Miles numbers playing 35 minutes, they border on all-star#s. His defensive stats--blocks, steals, rebounding also go way up with 35 minutes. I think someone brought up sheed, sheed hasnt caused disruptions under brown, the same guy who ran out in his underwear threatning to beat down an official. So his whole career is defined by an obnoxious outburst? Ive sat close enough to the Uconn bench to hear Jim Calhoun call players MF p*****s and everything else. I think swearing and name calling is a part of sports--it happens. I dont think that Darius is some kind of bad kid, rather that Portland situation is poor. Yeah, we can go with riza Lee and Thomas, and if next yer thomas doesnt work out and riza and lee arent there, you have?
RIP Crushalot😞
gunsnewing
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7/29/2005  4:35 PM
I have no problem with Miles character on a team that is known for leading guys down the wrong path. My problem with Miles is that he can't shoot and is just as stupid a basketball player as Tim Thomas. But he is better than Ariza.
bobs3304
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7/29/2005  4:36 PM
It's not even a question about Miles' character, it's more about his willingness or even capability to LEARN, to change his style of play to better compliment the TEAM. Miles never struck me as the type of guy that would buy into the team concept. I'm not so sure Crawford can either.

But let's say he can...how is he useful to us anymore? He's never had a solid FG % like Rip did, and he's not a deep threat either (not by any means.) So where is he productive? ON THE DRIBBLE. And for that to happen he needs to play point, not SG.

That said, it's very possible we play Marbury at SG and Crawford at the point, but do you REALLY want 2 of the worst defensive guards in the league (with talent) to man your backcourt???
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
toodarkmark
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7/29/2005  4:48 PM
Not only do we have Tim Thomas and Trevor Ariza at SF. But David Lee, Malik Rose, and Jerome Williams can all spend time there. Do we really need another SF like Darius Miles? Isnt Ariza's game super similar to his?

Id rather have seen us trade M Taylor and J Crawford to Seattle for A Daniels and J James. That would have made alot more sense. Put Daniels in as a 6-4 PG with Stephon so Daniels could cover taller SG's.

I love D Miles, but he just is not a good fit. Unless we trade T Thomas for M Finley or something.

I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
bobs3304
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7/29/2005  4:51 PM
The best scenario for Crawford would be playing the point alongside a SG that is defensively solid...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/29/2005 16:54:15]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Killa4luv
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7/29/2005  5:01 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Killa4luv:

Failed Scenario

Trade ID
2512553.

no it doesnt fail, its not using the new cba terms

why would the blazers just opt out of nve contract? because in this scenario, they save 28MILLION $ over the life of the contract and GAIN 7.5 MILLION in cap savings for next year to sign Joel P.

this hedges the knicks against having no quality SF--if TT is not resigned, if trevor ariza does not rise in play, the Knicks have a 6-9 215 23 YO proven athletic defensive minded player with all star type potnetial.
it is using the new cba rules if you read it it says 125% as opposed to 115%.
BRIGGS
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7/29/2005  5:07 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I have no problem with Miles character on a team that is known for leading guys down the wrong path. My problem with Miles is that he can't shoot and is just as stupid a basketball player as Tim Thomas. But he is better than Ariza.


he cant shoot 3s but hes a 50% FG shooter

Here are his 10 best games of 2004

33 10 14 6 3 3 0 1 2 20
41 9 15 6 2 4 2 2 4 21
33 7 16 6 3 6 4 0 5 20
40 19 33 12 0 1 4 5 3 47
40 13 17 4 2 2 1 0 3 26
42 11 24 8 4 1 2 2 3 28
39 10 22 9 3 5 1 2 4 25
29 10 13 8 2 4 4 3 5 20
26 9 13 7 0 2 0 1 4 21
28 8 13 3 2 3 0 4 4 21
----------------------------avg
35.5mts
107/180-59.4%
pts 24.9
reb 5.9
blocks 2.0
steals 1.7
To's 3.1
as 2.1

so you can see when he gets time, he can play at a all star level and has very nice defensive stats for a 3
when he didnt start or didnt play as many minutes, he tended not to play as well
RIP Crushalot😞
bobs3304
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7/29/2005  6:05 PM
There's no arguing Miles' or Crawford's potential to rack up some nice numbers. But here's the difference b/w those 2 and guys like Eric Snow - the intangibles. And you can never measure those.

Same difference b/w Johnny Damon and A-Rod. A-Rod puts up amazing stats, but Damon gives you certain things you just can't put a price on. Such things as poise, clutch factor, hustle, heart, consistency, a willingness to buy into the team concept.....the list goes on and on.

Here's another take on it. Who would you rather have? Drew Gooden, who averages a block and a steal per game, or Reggie Evans, who averages nearly 0 steals per game and just over 1/2 a block per game?

My answer - Reggie Evans. Why? Well, simply put, Evans is the superior defender. Stats don't always tell the whole story. It's the difference b/w quality and quantity.

Here's yet ANOTHER take on it. Who would you rather have? Rafael Palmiero, an accumulator and 1 of only 4 players EVER with 3,000 hits and 500 Home Runs, or Derek Jeter, a career winner (though I hate the Yanks) and a known clutch hitter, but only an above average slugger during the season?

My answer - Jeter. Palmiero's stats trump Jeter's and most def. will career-wise, but Jeter gives you something Palmiero never could - leadership, and you can't measure that.


Crawford has the potential to give you 20 points and 5 assists per game, but he's not something you can't replace. Again, the best scenario for him would be to be paired with a defensively-solid SG.

Cleveland anyone?

[Edited by - BOBS3304 on 07/29/2005 18:06:27]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Silverfuel
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7/29/2005  6:09 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Same difference b/w Johnny Damon and A-Rod. A-Rod puts up amazing stats, but Damon gives you certain things you just can't put a price on. Such things as poise, clutch factor, hustle, heart, consistency, a willingness to buy into the team concept.....the list goes on and on.
You have no clue what you are talking about dude. Keep your stupid Yankee, Red Sox comparisions to yourself.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
bobs3304
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7/29/2005  6:18 PM
did i hit a vein?




silver must be a Yankee fan...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nyk4ever
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7/29/2005  7:08 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

he cant shoot 3s but hes a 50% FG shooter

Here are his 10 best games of 2004

33 10 14 6 3 3 0 1 2 20
41 9 15 6 2 4 2 2 4 21
33 7 16 6 3 6 4 0 5 20
40 19 33 12 0 1 4 5 3 47
40 13 17 4 2 2 1 0 3 26
42 11 24 8 4 1 2 2 3 28
39 10 22 9 3 5 1 2 4 25
29 10 13 8 2 4 4 3 5 20
26 9 13 7 0 2 0 1 4 21
28 8 13 3 2 3 0 4 4 21
----------------------------avg
35.5mts
107/180-59.4%
pts 24.9
reb 5.9
blocks 2.0
steals 1.7
To's 3.1
as 2.1

so you can see when he gets time, he can play at a all star level and has very nice defensive stats for a 3
when he didnt start or didnt play as many minutes, he tended not to play as well

I'm sorry Briggs but I just can't see this. DMiles averaged 27 mins a game for the whole year and your telling me that extra 8 minutes made him more then double his stats? I think the MPG in those "10 best games" (which is already trying just to make him look good) is attributed to him getting extra minutes only becuase he was hot that night. I don't want a player that can't play just becasue he's not starting or becuase he didn't get as minutes the previous night. I don't get why the same people who didnt want Kwame Brown want Darius Miles even when they put up almost the same exact stats in their extremely underachieving careers.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07/29/2005 19:09:03]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
bobs3304
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7/29/2005  7:30 PM
It's b/c their "typical" New Yorkers and only want players that aren't on the Knicks.


Kwame
Stro
D Miles
Gooden


The list goes on. And lemme tell you, I thought it was a good thing now that Larry's on board b/c most of you would stop this incessant "How about Tim Thomas for ____" bull****. It never stops with you guys. How about Kwame Brown. How about D. Miles. How about Andrew friggin Bynum. I remember way back some people were saying we should take that H.S. kid that Washington took in the 2nd round. IN THE SECOND ROUND!

My point is, Larry is finally a guy that's gonna look Isiah square in the eyes and say, "I don't like Jamal Crawford." And Isiah's gonna say, "OK, what should we do."

No more taking on bull****, no defense, selfish players. I would gladly keep Crawford if he was our starting SG and Marbury was traded, meaning of course we were actually rebuilding...but that's not the case. Now, I don't know about some of you, but I actually wanna make the playoffs this year. Badly. And news flash...with the roster we have now, it'll be VERY hard to make the 8th seed. Don't have stars in your eyes guys (no rhyme intended). Think of this realistically. No matter how many points we score with this team, we'll give up more than we put up half the time. .500 isn't good enough to make the playoffs next season. You can bank on that. The East is HIGHLY competitive. What we need are MORE intangible players, not less. We need defensively-able players.

To say that Larry Brown can turn a bad defense into a good defense is stupid and ignorant. What Larry Brown will do is preach and teach defense all day long, and whoever's left standing is playing. Why do you think he's so flippant on players, and has so many of them traded?

My prediction: Crawford's traded sooner than later...


"Please believe me".....(Chapelle Show)
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
BRIGGS
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7/29/2005  7:31 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by BRIGGS:

he cant shoot 3s but hes a 50% FG shooter

Here are his 10 best games of 2004

33 10 14 6 3 3 0 1 2 20
41 9 15 6 2 4 2 2 4 21
33 7 16 6 3 6 4 0 5 20
40 19 33 12 0 1 4 5 3 47
40 13 17 4 2 2 1 0 3 26
42 11 24 8 4 1 2 2 3 28
39 10 22 9 3 5 1 2 4 25
29 10 13 8 2 4 4 3 5 20
26 9 13 7 0 2 0 1 4 21
28 8 13 3 2 3 0 4 4 21
----------------------------avg
35.5mts
107/180-59.4%
pts 24.9
reb 5.9
blocks 2.0
steals 1.7
To's 3.1
as 2.1

so you can see when he gets time, he can play at a all star level and has very nice defensive stats for a 3
when he didnt start or didnt play as many minutes, he tended not to play as well

I'm sorry Briggs but I just can't see this. DMiles averaged 27 mins a game for the whole year and your telling me that extra 8 minutes made him more then double his stats? I think the MPG in those "10 best games" (which is already trying just to make him look good) is attributed to him getting extra minutes only becuase he was hot that night. I don't want a player that can't play just becasue he's not starting or becuase he didn't get as minutes the previous night. I don't get why the same people who didnt want Kwame Brown want Darius Miles even when they put up almost the same exact stats in their extremely underachieving careers.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07/29/2005 19:09:03]


He only started 22 games. If you look at his numbers, its quite clear--i mean its there in black and white, Darius Miles puts up big numbers consistently when he plays big minutes.
That could be due to focus, tempo of ball game etc..

even taking his numbers 13 points 5 reb 1.2 b 1.2 reb 48% shooting in 27 minutes and add 1/3 to 39, you are looking at production of
19.5 pts 7.5 reb 1.7 block 1.7 reb-any way you look at it--either through looking at his production when he actually plays big minutes or projecting his numbers to 38-39 minutes---he puts up big effecient numbers in a lot of categories.


what is that thing stats per 48 whatever--go check up there and see his effeciency rating. we only HOPE that Ariza could EVER be in this area--I mean Darius had a 47 point 12 rebound game this year--you dont do that in the nBA if you are not a good player.
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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7/29/2005  7:36 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

It's b/c their "typical" New Yorkers and only want players that aren't on the Knicks.


Kwame
Stro
D Miles
Gooden


The list goes on. And lemme tell you, I thought it was a good thing now that Larry's on board b/c most of you would stop this incessant "How about Tim Thomas for ____" bull****. It never stops with you guys. How about Kwame Brown. How about D. Miles. How about Andrew friggin Bynum. I remember way back some people were saying we should take that H.S. kid that Washington took in the 2nd round. IN THE SECOND ROUND!

My point is, Larry is finally a guy that's gonna look Isiah square in the eyes and say, "I don't like Jamal Crawford." And Isiah's gonna say, "OK, what should we do."

No more taking on bull****, no defense, selfish players. I would gladly keep Crawford if he was our starting SG and Marbury was traded, meaning of course we were actually rebuilding...but that's not the case. Now, I don't know about some of you, but I actually wanna make the playoffs this year. Badly. And news flash...with the roster we have now, it'll be VERY hard to make the 8th seed. Don't have stars in your eyes guys (no rhyme intended). Think of this realistically. No matter how many points we score with this team, we'll give up more than we put up half the time. .500 isn't good enough to make the playoffs next season. You can bank on that. The East is HIGHLY competitive. What we need are MORE intangible players, not less. We need defensively-able players.

To say that Larry Brown can turn a bad defense into a good defense is stupid and ignorant. What Larry Brown will do is preach and teach defense all day long, and whoever's left standing is playing. Why do you think he's so flippant on players, and has so many of them traded?

My prediction: Crawford's traded sooner than later...


"Please believe me".....(Chapelle Show)

Thankyou Bob. I can't even expand on that, excellent post and you hit everything on the head with it. Theres no doubt that Larry and Isiah are going to clash on some players and Larry is going to bring some players to new heights(the ones that want to play defense, like Ariza) and the others are going to go by the wayside. I can tell you right this second that Darius Miles is in no way shape or form a Larry Brown style player.

Briggs, do you think there is a reason that Darius didnt get more mintutes? If he played so well in his 27 minutes and put up so many big games when he played alot why didn't they play him more? I know you like that stats per 48mpg category but I really think its BS becuase most players in this league cant even play 40 mpg so I don't see how that stat is even relevant. I agree with you Darius is a intriguing option but not for the Knicks, not right now, we have Ariza and David Lee who need to be given a shot at what they can do in the pros with consistent playing time and not have someone like Darius Miles who hasn't earned a ounce of his "potential" to be brought in and just take away from those 2 guys.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07/29/2005 19:39:06]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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