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Trade Scenario -- CRAWFORD to Utah....
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Killa4luv
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7/27/2005  8:00 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

If Marbury's not creating on offense, he's more or less useless. And he's not much of a 1-on-1 player, so what good is he at SG? He can't hit the 3 efficiently, so spotting him up is pointless. I think the only reason we hear talks about this is b/c there is no other option, other then simply leaving it as it is.....or trading him.


Either Marbury is traded and Crawford mans the point, or Marbury stays and Crawford goes. Some of you are arguing - why should we trade for an older guard who will only play 20 MPG. My answer - HOW MANY MINUTES DO YOU THINK CRAWFORD WILL SEE NEXT YEAR??? You wanna know.....try 20.
Those bolded remarks have no basis in reality.

Marbs is not good 1 on 1? Do you watch the knicks play on TV or do you listen to the radio? He is unguardable 1 on 1 which is why he scores so many of his 22 points per game right at the rim.

And Craws minutes are gonna go from almost 40 pg to 20? Because of a promising rookie who hasn't played a single NBA game yet? Crawford avg'd 17 and 4 in the NBA, he has had multiple 40 + nights, and he has about 50 million left on his contract, I think they are gonna find some minutes for him.

Nate & Ariza will sit before Crawford does, because he makes way more and he is a much better player than both of them, period.



[Edited by - Killa4luv on 07/27/2005 20:02:31]
AUTOADVERT
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  8:02 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

read my reply, i said "to me".

i understand you're on the other side of the fence but you're arguing based purely on YOUR assumption of crawford's role. it's VERY possible that he starts and morphs into a rip hamilton type player b/c if he's still chucking 3's, he won't be on the court. and craw towards the end of the season was a better player that was driving more and taking less 3's - so that shows me that he can learn and grow.

i agree with you that craw is probably best at the point guard but i think we shouldn't consider trading craw until after the season has started and after we see how everyone fits together under LB. this guy is too young and has too many physical tools to move BEFORE we see him with LB.

hey, it could be a marbury, craw, Q starting lineup for all we know.


fair enough, but i've personally seen enough of Crawford to know what kind of player he is and what he offers to any team. he's a shark offensively, but doesn't do much else. we already have enough offense lined up, it's time to bring in some defense. and not only that, but he has SIX years left on his contract. that really hurts our flexibility for the future. harpring is a player that can be effective now, or traded b/c he's expiring. either way, it's a win-win.

when you mention Crawford, you can't NOT mention his contract. his production/potential doesn't equal his salary. which is why you won't see much better offers than this.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  8:06 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Those bolded remarks have no basis in reality.

Marbs is not good 1 on 1? Do you watch the knicks play on TV or do you listen to the radio? He is unguardable 1 on 1 which is why he scores so many of his 22 points per game right at the rim.

And Craws minutes are gonna go from almost 40 pg to 20? Because of a promising rookie who hasn't played a single NBA game yet? Crawford avg'd 17 and 4 in the NBA, he has had multiple 40 + nights, and he has about 50 million left on his contract, I think they are gonna find some minutes for him.

Nate & Ariza will sit before Crawford does, because he makes way more and he is a much better player than both of them, period.



[Edited by - Killa4luv on 07/27/2005 20:02:31]


38 MPG to be exact. You ever wonder why he had so many minutes? Try b/c we had no other guards. Houston was injured. Penny was trash. Now we have Nate and Q. How do you expect the minutes to be dispersed?

I think 25 MPG is about as much as you're gonna see from Crawford. Trading him is something worth looking into. He's a great talent, but doesn't offer what this particular team needs, especially with Larry Brown in the picture...



p.s. -- he's no rip hamilton...

[Edited by - BOBS3304 on 07/27/2005 20:06:58]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  8:17 PM
Marbury is not really tailored as a 1-on-1 player. He has that one move where makes a quick juke and passes by the defender, but that's hardly what I consider 1 on 1 play.


He's best at the top of the key or around the outside perimeter, as long as there's a pick somewhere in the vicinity (aka Kurt Thomas).

Also, with Larry Brown here, Marbury won't be doing much "1-on-1" anymore. He's a playmaker or an ex-Knick...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Killa4luv
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7/27/2005  8:19 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by Killa4luv:

Those bolded remarks have no basis in reality.

Marbs is not good 1 on 1? Do you watch the knicks play on TV or do you listen to the radio? He is unguardable 1 on 1 which is why he scores so many of his 22 points per game right at the rim.

And Craws minutes are gonna go from almost 40 pg to 20? Because of a promising rookie who hasn't played a single NBA game yet? Crawford avg'd 17 and 4 in the NBA, he has had multiple 40 + nights, and he has about 50 million left on his contract, I think they are gonna find some minutes for him.

Nate & Ariza will sit before Crawford does, because he makes way more and he is a much better player than both of them, period.



[Edited by - Killa4luv on 07/27/2005 20:02:31]


38 MPG to be exact. You ever wonder why he had so many minutes? Try b/c we had no other guards. Houston was injured. Penny was trash. Now we have Nate and Q. How do you expect the minutes to be dispersed?

I think 25 MPG is about as much as you're gonna see from Crawford. Trading him is something worth looking into. He's a great talent, but doesn't offer what this particular team needs, especially with Larry Brown in the picture...



p.s. -- he's no rip hamilton...

[Edited by - BOBS3304 on 07/27/2005 20:06:58]
Trading him IS something worth looking into, but not for Matt Harpring and a 2nd round pick. Thats just throwing him away. 17 and 4 is nothing to sneeze at, BTW I think he would be perfect playing in Denver, I have been saying this for months, he can shoot and run the point, but they already have Early and Andre Miller.
djsunyc
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7/27/2005  8:21 PM
why are you guys talking about crawford when JAKE VOSKUHL JUST GOT TRADED!!!!! JAKE VOSKUHL!!!!
jaydh
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7/27/2005  8:23 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

We should be able to get more for Craw.

exactly! besides, i'd rather develop ariza rather than waste the minutes on harpring. we know we arent winning a ring this year, so why stunt our young promising players?

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/27/2005 20:27:39]
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  8:24 PM
Is he really so perfect for a team that already has their fair share of PG's? Try no. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I belive they drafted a player by the name of Julius Hodge. Crawford II anyone?


Again, you're overvaluing Crawford. It's as simple as that. Not only that, but I belive you're also undervaluing Harpring. Last time I checked, Harpring, while older, is a better player with an expiring contract to go with it. How can you overlook that?

Please don't say potential. 6th year coming up for Jamal. How much "potential" can you have left? I'm going out on a limb here, but I bet you were all for bringing in Kwame based on that very same "potential."
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Killa4luv
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7/27/2005  8:25 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

why are you guys talking about crawford when JAKE VOSKUHL JUST GOT TRADED!!!!! JAKE VOSKUHL!!!!
You're crazy today.

If I'm trading Crawford it had better be for someone like Nene, or Kwame, or some young big with promise. Otherwise it just doesn't make any sense. For an older, less talented player and a second round pick? Iy just doesn't make any sense at all.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  8:26 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

You're crazy today.

If I'm trading Crawford it had better be for someone like Kwame...


And you just proved me right...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
jaydh
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7/27/2005  8:31 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by Killa4luv:

You're crazy today.

If I'm trading Crawford it had better be for someone like Kwame...


And you just proved me right...

lol, thats a matter of opinion as half the members here have split opinions/views of kwame.

but bringing in harpring, stunting ariza/lee, thats dumb.

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/27/2005 20:32:12]
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  8:36 PM
stunting ariza/lee?


care to back that up? if anything, keeping Crawford stunts their growth. Harpring doesn't NEED a set minimum of minutes (meaning no less than ___ MPG). i'd also add that keeping Timmy stunts their growth, although he'll probably spend the rest of his knick days on the bench.


only a confused knick fan would take flashy offense over defense...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Bonn1997
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7/27/2005  8:40 PM
Harpring's never looked like a good defender to me. I wouldn't give up Crawford for him. I'd rather keep the SFs we have and keep Jamal. If he plays only 22 mpg, fine.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  8:46 PM
That's pretty lacking for an "arguement" buddy.


Harpring is one of the best rebounders for his positions, and can guard multiple positions. he's unselfish, good FG %, good FT %. An expiring contract. 2nd rounder only adds to our stockpile.


DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Killa4luv
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7/27/2005  9:08 PM
Craw is 25 and hasn't peaked yet. Few players do at 25 wouldn't you say?

Harpring is 29 and doesn't put up numbers as good as Crawford, on a team that won 26 games where he was the 2nd best player on the team behind a non-star player in Boozer.

The numbers are close, the age is not, and most importantly the need is not there. If the numbers were close and he was a PF/C it would be worth discussing. But for another Swingman it really doesn't make sense.

hes not a bad player, but I really don't see how he makes us better than Crawford would. LB can help Craw develop because he is still developing, I really don't see that for Harpring, he will not get much if any better.
Rich
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7/27/2005  9:11 PM
I want Larry to get a chance to work with Craw.
jaydh
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7/27/2005  9:12 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

stunting ariza/lee?


care to back that up? if anything, keeping Crawford stunts their growth. Harpring doesn't NEED a set minimum of minutes (meaning no less than ___ MPG). i'd also add that keeping Timmy stunts their growth, although he'll probably spend the rest of his knick days on the bench.


only a confused knick fan would take flashy offense over defense...

harpring would most likely get ariza's minutes. crawford never plays the 3, thats ariza's real position. only harpring would stunt him. there is nothing we can do about timmy since he is currently on the roster, but no need to put another player in front of him.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  9:13 PM
Lets' get something straight oh knowledgable one.


Boozer is the second best player on that team behind AK47. I'd say Harpring is about their 4th best player.

Once again, what does Crawford offer that is so much better than Harpring. What we're lacking most is defense and common-sense fans. Harpring could help solve 1/2, maybe even both if he comes to home games with a hacksaw in hand...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  9:16 PM
you obviously don't understand the concept of "rotation".


once again, if anything, it would be Crawford stunting Ariza's growth, and it has nothing to do with what position he plays...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
jaydh
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7/27/2005  9:17 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Lets' get something straight oh knowledgable one.


Boozer is the second best player on that team behind AK47. I'd say Harpring is about their 4th best player.

Once again, what does Crawford offer that is so much better than Harpring. What we're lacking most is defense and common-sense fans. Harpring could help solve 1/2, maybe even both if he comes to home games with a hacksaw in hand...

why cant brown make ariza fit that role that you want to give to harpring? ariza can play D and has the potential to be better than harpring who is already on the decline(as far as stats go).
and you say common-sense, you think we are winning a championship with harpring? exactly, so why not play our young players who have potential to be even better than these players you want.
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