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OT: Yankees Pitching BLOWS
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tkf
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7/24/2005  2:01 AM
Yanks were headed in the right direction with pavano and Wright, who are both good pitchers under 30, wright's injury hurt us. Mussina is only 35 but still in his prime years. RJ and Brown are shot IMO, as is schilling. Pedro is still a stud pitcher for 6 innings and Boston is finding that out, Boston will not win because of not keeping pedro who was a big time performer...

I had problems with trading Weaver whow as 26 and vazques who was 28 for two 40+ year old pitchers, that to me is what nalod called star phuching and it backfired. Trading young talent like that we should have taken a step back and gotten some good prospect or other young picthers who were ready to step in and start in a year or two.....

I love the yanks, but we are getting what we deserve for displaying bad management skills and no foresight.... Look at what the braves are doing basically with a 90% minor league team on the field...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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Rich
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7/24/2005  2:02 AM
I regret trading Lilly more than I regret trading Weaver.
tkf
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7/24/2005  2:28 AM
Posted by Rich:

I regret trading Lilly more than I regret trading Weaver.

me too!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bonn1997
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7/24/2005  8:27 AM
I have to agree with Rich here. After Randy had another Cy Young level season last year and kept defying his age, I just don't find it credible for someone to claim now that they expected this season to be the one age finally caught up with him.
I thought the Lieber, El Duque, and Wright decisions were all awful by Cashman and he's a bad GM. He's had about as much success over the past five years as I think Layden could have pulled off in the NBA with no salary cap or max individual salary: a .550 to .600 winning percentage with zero championships.
Allanfan20
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7/24/2005  10:53 AM
I disagree with you Bonn. When you have a 40 year old pitcher, no matter how good they are, you just never know when they are going to break down. I was actually very against giving him that extension. I didn't think he'd be as inconsistent as he has been this season, but I wasn't expecting anything close to a repeat of last season either.

Mussina IS NOT in his prime anymore, and you just didn't know with Pavano b/c he was not that good for so many years, and finally he was real good last season. Now, he's been inconsistent again. Signing Wright was a B. job. The best thing that's happened to this pitching staff in a long time is WANG, and that says a lot b/c Wang is a pretty darn good pitcher, but he's no superstar or maybe even future star. I wish he was, but I see him as a solid solid ohhh, #3 starter in the future. What the Yankees need is MORE WANGS in terms of bringing in REAL YOUTH from their farm or maybe trading for someone elses farm products, as opposed to trading for iffy 28 year olds, calling them youth, and mixing that with a bunch of 35+ year olds on the downswing of their careers. This staff needs to be rebuilded COMPLETELY, and I've actually been saying it for about 3 or 4 years now.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Rich
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7/24/2005  1:06 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I have to agree with Rich here. After Randy had another Cy Young level season last year and kept defying his age, I just don't find it credible for someone to claim now that they expected this season to be the one age finally caught up with him.
I thought the Lieber, El Duque, and Wright decisions were all awful by Cashman and he's a bad GM. He's had about as much success over the past five years as I think Layden could have pulled off in the NBA with no salary cap or max individual salary: a .550 to .600 winning percentage with zero championships.

Cashman isn't permitted to function as a normal GM. He merely makes recommendations to the baseball committee that has been dominated by the Tampa faction (Emslie, Connors, Oppenheimer, and of course, George) in recent years.

For example, he has publicly stated that he has wanted to make the team younger and better defensively in recent years. To that end, for example, he recommended signing Vlad over Sheff.

The Yankees are run best when Stick makes the player personnel decisions, and Cash executes them. Recent reports are that Stick has regained power after being ignored for several years.

btw, Lieber has not had a good season:

WHIP: 1.35 BAA: .285 ERA: 4.88
Knicksfan
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7/24/2005  1:11 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

This is a Knicks site fellas, Yankees forums are elsewhere. Sayonara please.

There is a reason why the title of this thread reads "OT" and there is an Off-Topic Forum, don't you think?
Knicks_Fan
jaydh
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7/24/2005  2:14 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I have to agree with Rich here. After Randy had another Cy Young level season last year and kept defying his age, I just don't find it credible for someone to claim now that they expected this season to be the one age finally caught up with him.

well i could see why a yankee fan would believe that. but, hes 41, going on 42 before the end of the season, signed for another 2 years after this. Are you kidding?! you thought he would pitch like a cy young forever? he was already losing speed on his fastball prior to this season. i mean, hes not on steriods like Clemens, hes old and is declining(just like schilling).
Bonn1997
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7/24/2005  4:36 PM
btw, Lieber has not had a good season:

WHIP: 1.35 BAA: .285 ERA: 4.88

I'd take that over Wright or Brown as our fifth starter.
Bonn1997
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7/24/2005  4:41 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

I disagree with you Bonn. When you have a 40 year old pitcher, no matter how good they are, you just never know when they are going to break down. I was actually very against giving him that extension. I didn't think he'd be as inconsistent as he has been this season, but I wasn't expecting anything close to a repeat of last season either.

Mussina IS NOT in his prime anymore, and you just didn't know with Pavano b/c he was not that good for so many years, and finally he was real good last season. Now, he's been inconsistent again. Signing Wright was a B. job. The best thing that's happened to this pitching staff in a long time is WANG, and that says a lot b/c Wang is a pretty darn good pitcher, but he's no superstar or maybe even future star. I wish he was, but I see him as a solid solid ohhh, #3 starter in the future. What the Yankees need is MORE WANGS in terms of bringing in REAL YOUTH from their farm or maybe trading for someone elses farm products, as opposed to trading for iffy 28 year olds, calling them youth, and mixing that with a bunch of 35+ year olds on the downswing of their careers. This staff needs to be rebuilded COMPLETELY, and I've actually been saying it for about 3 or 4 years now.
Which is the part that disagrees with me? If you didn't think Randy would have the downfall he's having or anything close to what he's had but you thought he might have been a little worse than last year, then you agree with me.
Rich
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7/24/2005  8:22 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
btw, Lieber has not had a good season:

WHIP: 1.35 BAA: .285 ERA: 4.88

I'd take that over Wright or Brown as our fifth starter.

I would have preferred Clement or Perez.
Rich
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7/24/2005  8:24 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I have to agree with Rich here. After Randy had another Cy Young level season last year and kept defying his age, I just don't find it credible for someone to claim now that they expected this season to be the one age finally caught up with him.

well i could see why a yankee fan would believe that. but, hes 41, going on 42 before the end of the season, signed for another 2 years after this. Are you kidding?! you thought he would pitch like a cy young forever? he was already losing speed on his fastball prior to this season. i mean, hes not on steriods like Clemens, hes old and is declining(just like schilling).

The point was about this year's rotation. In light of that fact, thinking that RJ would be awesome this season was reasonable, and FWIW, the common wisdom in MLB.
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OT: Yankees Pitching BLOWS
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