Posted by Knicksfan:

When he came to the Knicks, I was just soo happy to have a guy that really knows basketball running the team, not just a guy that panics when a contract is about to expire and makes horrible trades just to create an aura of contention. Isiah came in and immediately said the right things. He traded for a guy that wanted soo much to be a Knick, something that back then wasn't common. Since then most of his trades have been about potential, yes, even the TT and Nazr trades. Im sure he thought that with that lineup and with a healthy Houston, the Knicks could contend, but that didn't happened. It was time to move to rebuilding.

While I may not have liked the Mo Taylor trade, I have been pleased with most of the moves he has done. Now it seems he is really committed to rebuilding, but trying to be competitive in the process. Thats fine with me. Isiah has made solid-to-great moves since he came in. Many haters have the same arguments, but the fact is that when he came in, nobody believed that he would be able to trade any of the players we had, since all were called "untradeable". Yet Isiah traded them, and for good and young players most of them.

The job is far from over so maybe this is too early to say anything definite. He has turned this team younger and more athletic, but we know that doesn't matter if you don't win. We probably won't win in a couple of seasons, but Im willing to wait because if he keeps making the right trades, Isiah may finally build a winner in NY.

Where was all this fiscal responsiblity 10 years ago? 5 years ago? Heck, even 3 years ago? I don't know how fast you guys wanted IT to get under the cap, but it's not that simple. And so what we're over the cap. IT has used his imagination to pull some things off here I like. So what we sent a draft pick to Phoenix? IT got it back this year in Nate Rob. How's that for imagination? Everybody and their cousin knew that JJ would cost the full MLE. Nobody in the TV media, the papers or radio people suggested he was going to come for less. Why is it a problem. He is a legit 7'1, who can play. I'm happy. Don't knock the guy or his cost until he plays. And 6 mil a year, he has a very manageable/tradeable contract. Q-Rich's contract is tradeable. Why some of you guys crying about the cap anyway? IF Minn were trying to trade KG to us what would the contracts of TT, Penny, and H20 be worth? You have 2 expiring this season and the 3rd one expiring the following. 3 of our biggest contracts are 3 of our biggest assets. Think outside the box, and stop all the bloodclot crying. All these crybabies make this forum depressing. We ain't this, we ain't that. Ya'll should watch the Lifetime network or somethin'. Some us of like the direction this team is going and are excited about this teams prospects for next season. I'm happy with Marbury, Q-Rich, JJ, all my draft picks this year and Lord Isiah. We're going to compete and all you crybabies should just switch your loyalties to another team that doing things 'The Right Way'.

Posted by TMS:

i said all last year that the only viable options that Isiah should target as our next head coach should be either Larry Brown or Phil Jackson...the last thing we needed was yet another interim solution like Mo Cheeks, Paul Silas, Bill Laimbeer, etc. like so many other posters were clamoring for just a few weeks ago.

if Isiah succeeds in getting LB here this year, i'll be more than happy to give him props...i've already liked his drafting of Nate Rob this offseason (the JJ signing & passing up on Gerald Green were mistakes in my estimation)

Posted by tkf:

Posted by islesfan:

I like what It has done, but when I see people say we went from 80 mil to 100 mil it almost makes me sick, as if It induced the 80 mil that was already here when he arrived. The only reason we are at 100 mil is because It added young players, players that you try to sign if you are under the cap anyway. What is the fascination of being under the cap when you don't have a premier star available to sign? the fact that the knicks in 3 years could have a good young team on the floor with the 3 rookies, ariza, Q, marbs and craw, and a decent payroll is leaps and bounds better than the last 5 years we had to endure... IT's job is to put a good team on the floor, not to stay here for 5 years and keep us under or near the cap averaging 22 wins a year.... Whats even worse is that I want to play the young guys all year and watch them grow, and I would not mind parlaying our two picks, one which may be a lotto pick to try and move up and draft another impact player, and go from there, but the problem with that is all we will here is, the knicks suck, they were in the lotto again with 100 mil in payroll... that mentality is what kills me, and leads me to believe that no one is interested in rebuilding, but more interested in just complaining...

[Edited by - tkf on 07/20/2005 12:08:37]

There's more to rebuilding than just collecting draft picks and questionable players with the MLE and LLE. Managing your cap situation is a big part of rebuilding and the fact that Isiah completely dismisses it is a huge problem.

It's up to $100M because he acquired a non superstar to build around in Marbury and had to take Penny's huge contract and give up 2 #1 picks in the process. He aquired a flawed guard in JC for $55M and even IT's most ardent supporters admit is better off as a backup. He acquired MoT and his ridiculous contract for no apparent reason. Just because he inherited a bad cap situation doesn't mean he gets a pass for making it even worse. Not that he cares since he constantly dismisses the cap as something that doesn't really matter.

well Isles vujanic was never comming over, IT was smart enough to see that, lampe quickly fell out of favor with IT and since this trade we have acquired 3 first round picks which so far resulted in nate and lee, not bad. Now as far as the contracts, i am also confused with the mo taylor deal, but when you look at it, Penny's deal, MO Taylor and Rose all expire around the same time the big fish(Houston) deal expires, so I don't understand why you are so upset with those signings, those signings really in our long term plans are insignifigant, and taking penny was part of getting marbs, and like it or not, getting a talent like marbs for a over the cap team like the knicks was going to cost us big.... I think you have to acquire talent, picks and talent, you say rebuilding is not about acquiring picks but it is about acquiring talent, moveable talent, I have no doubt in my mind that guys like crawford, Q and even marbs are moveable, and moveable for other good players, unlike the crap we had before, where we had to take back a lot of junk to move those guys.. This alone is why I am optimistic about our future and present..

Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Islefan, denying that you implied that Isiah could have done better at 21 based on Nate being the shortest in the draft?

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=10094

How soon we forget.

You have failed to follow the point. The point is, right now it's very difficult to criticize Isiah about much. The only thing left is the fiscal arguement. Yes you have been talking about the cap but your arguements are getting more and more narrow until you're just left with the cap. You use to diss the players on the team from top to bottom. Can't say most of those things anymore. Dissed the coaching situation talking about how every coach for the Knicks is Isiah's puppet. When Larry steps in that arguement, like so many others, will be null and void. As a matter of fact, first your beef was that Isiah is too much in control and the coaches are pretty much Isiah's programed robots and now that Larry is set to come in you have flipped your argument (once again) to the fact that Larry will be making more money than Isiah. These arguements are going nowhere. I think most people know that your main objective is to be against anything Isiah Thomas does. It's cool to agree or disgree with the man but there comes a time when it's obvious that a person is trying to pick EVERYTHING apart even when there is little to pick apart. It's funny. lIke, first you diss dude for taking the shortest player in the draft and then Nate does his thing and all of a sudden the argement shifts to Nate's playing time. lol Come on now, you gotta admit, that's comedy!