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jaydh
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7/13/2005  2:03 PM
Posted by nixluva:

1st of all exactly what was Herb supposed to have done in that horrid situation last year. What coach who's never been a head coach before would want to come in under those circumstances.

Long losing streak
minor injury to key players
no H2O, no Penny
TT playing like he's been bodysnatched.
more trades that shake up the teams balance and make it even shorter.
the biggest and toughest stage in the NBA

SO in Herb goes and he's already in the deep end of the pool and drowning. He actually got TT to play ball again, gave Sweets more floor time, JC became more of a passer and the team actually got back into the season for a while. The Knicks played much better D under Herb. The only thing that killed Herb's season was a 4 game western road trip. They lost those games and lost their motivation since they knew they were out of the playoff race for sure.

Before the 4 game West Coast Trip that killed their season. Herb had gone 12-15 with the Knicks. Now understand that when he took over the team was already in a horrible 1-9 slide. When he took over the team continued to lose but they did start to play better in Feb.

Lets face it that team wasn't going to be great as it was constructed. We all know it needed changes. What 1st yr coach would have been able to get those guys to snap back again and make the playoffs? I doubt many would have been able to do it.

Now Herb has had time to actually come up with his own playbook and determine a style. He had a chance to attend some coaching seminars and got some info from Tex Winter on the triangle offense. He's been all into the draft and player development. He's a long time Knick and knows the town and won't be fazed by it. He wasn't rattled last yr. He won't be this yr if he's the coach.

NY fans love to put the blame on everyone. It cant be because our team sucks. why dont we just trade several scrubs for KG, Zeke is dumb, Marbs is old and should be traded. LOL How old was gary payton before he really started to decline? We already blamed Zeke, Marbs, its just now Herbs turn.
AUTOADVERT
Pharzeone
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7/13/2005  2:26 PM
I am not blaming Herb for the ills of the Knicks (though I do wonder if you fire everyone else for failure and a guy stays around for 6 years or so who do you blame). I am saying I don't think he is professional enough to run a club. To me it is nonsense to say that Herb was put into this position. Dude is on the payroll for the last 6 years. According to him and others he had input in coaching decisions under JVG, Chaney, and Lenny. So let me get this straight all the advise he gave those guys was all good. Did he come up with defensive schemes to maximize the Knicks' talent like Eddie Jordan, or maybe he was staying up late nites like Avery Johnson learning plays. When JVG was nabbed as Nellie replacement it made sense the guy was prep and ready. He coached in college, spent time under Pitino, and Riley. Avery Johnson was chumping at the bits with a gameplan, E. Jordan took his lessons from Sacramento. Herb went to Tex Winters after he got the position trying to find an identity as a head coach. What? This is your "career", he should had his little book with plays already to go. Look at Aguire on the SL this guy said he already knew what he wanted to do with these guys. I am sure Malone will have set plays he is looking to run as well.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BigAppleStar3
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7/13/2005  2:29 PM
Posted by nixluva:

1st of all exactly what was Herb supposed to have done in that horrid situation last year. What coach who's never been a head coach before would want to come in under those circumstances.

Long losing streak
minor injury to key players
no H2O, no Penny
TT playing like he's been bodysnatched.
more trades that shake up the teams balance and make it even shorter.
the biggest and toughest stage in the NBA

SO in Herb goes and he's already in the deep end of the pool and drowning. He actually got TT to play ball again, gave Sweets more floor time, JC became more of a passer and the team actually got back into the season for a while. The Knicks played much better D under Herb. The only thing that killed Herb's season was a 4 game western road trip. They lost those games and lost their motivation since they knew they were out of the playoff race for sure.

Before the 4 game West Coast Trip that killed their season. Herb had gone 12-15 with the Knicks. Now understand that when he took over the team was already in a horrible 1-9 slide. When he took over the team continued to lose but they did start to play better in Feb.

Lets face it that team wasn't going to be great as it was constructed. We all know it needed changes. What 1st yr coach would have been able to get those guys to snap back again and make the playoffs? I doubt many would have been able to do it.

Now Herb has had time to actually come up with his own playbook and determine a style. He had a chance to attend some coaching seminars and got some info from Tex Winter on the triangle offense. He's been all into the draft and player development. He's a long time Knick and knows the town and won't be fazed by it. He wasn't rattled last yr. He won't be this yr if he's the coach.

How did we play better defense under Herb Williams if we allowed 104 ppg? That makes no sense.

Stop making excuses for him. It wasn't the ideal situation but we were not a 17-27 team either. We made it the Playoffs the year before with even worse injuries and a less talented roster with Shandon Anderson starting at SG.

And Herb did not increase Mike Sweetney's PT. The way he handled Mike was actually the biggest reason why I want Herb gone. Why have a young roster and a have coach who is not willing to develope it?

This is going to be a very important year. We NEED to develope our youth. If not to make a run in 2 years than to increase trade value on the trade. You want Herb freaking Williams teaching Channing Frye and David Lee? The fact that Herb has to attend coaching clinics like he's some ameature should be reason enough not to bring him back. He's clearly not qualified for the job and it showed last season and there is nothing that says it's going to change. Herb has no qualities to be a Coach. He's a poor X's and O's coach and he's soft. The last thing a young team with diva veterans need is a players coach. We need a coach who has won. We need a coach who commands respect. We need a coach who will run a strict disciplined system. You're telling me Herb does that? Give me a break!
BigAppleStar3
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7/13/2005  2:33 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Could not have said it any better...What has Herb done for to better the Knicks administration???? I have asked this question many times, and none of his supporters seem to be able to answer it...If he was one of the old Knicks that helped us won a championship, I would say yes, but that dude has not helped us with anything as far as I am concerned, why must we be loyal to him????

Posted by Pharzeone:

Fans kill me with this "favorite guy who we like no matter what stuff." The Knicks don't owe Herb Williams a damn thing. What is he a stepson or something. The guy was given a chance about 6 years ago based on the fact that he was the team's mascot or something. He was a backup center who was given a nice job as an assistant after he retired. Never heard anything special about him during his tenure as an assistant coach. Not once did I hear rumblings around the league that he was in demand, or he was helping develop talent or coming up with game plans to help the KNicks. Just the opposite. He was there for as many bad tentures as any other Knick coach in recent history. He was given a shot as an interim head coach based on situation and because he is a nice gentleman but he failed. And in all honestly didn't impress me or for that matter his superiors that much. I think he has been admirable in all of this but lets face it where else was he going to go. It's not like another team is chumping at the bit to get a piece of Herb. Personally I think if he is out of job here he will be out of the NBA, I guess JVG would hire him. Let me know when Herb has distinguish as a coach whether its a head coach or assistant coach on any level NBA, NCAA, or HS and then I say you can make a serious plead for his right to coach and be given a chance.


We might as well call Andrew Lang and Felton Spencer to coach this team. Come on, Herb Williams is not Patrick Ewing or Charles Oakley. He's not even Anthony Mason. Herb was a 12th man scrub stiff just like Lang and Spencer.
jaydh
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7/13/2005  3:04 PM
Posted by BigAppleStar3:

We might as well call Andrew Lang and Felton Spencer to coach this team. Come on, Herb Williams is not Patrick Ewing or Charles Oakley. He's not even Anthony Mason. Herb was a 12th man scrub stiff just like Lang and Spencer.

i guess Herb's career in Indiana means squat. You think his career started with the knicks or something? he wasnt always the 12th man.
KNICKSdom
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7/13/2005  3:14 PM
Hell yea, give Herb a chance and let Westphal be his assistant. I think they can be good to mold Isiah's frankenstein Knicks team into a winner. I just don't think Larry Brown will come to NY, that train has passed when he left Philly.
Knicks are happening and have a Unicorn.
BigAppleStar3
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7/13/2005  3:39 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by BigAppleStar3:

We might as well call Andrew Lang and Felton Spencer to coach this team. Come on, Herb Williams is not Patrick Ewing or Charles Oakley. He's not even Anthony Mason. Herb was a 12th man scrub stiff just like Lang and Spencer.

i guess Herb's career in Indiana means squat. You think his career started with the knicks or something? he wasnt always the 12th man.

I meant his career with New York. Who cares what he did with Indiana? How should that matter to New York?
jaydh
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7/13/2005  3:44 PM
Posted by BigAppleStar3:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by BigAppleStar3:

We might as well call Andrew Lang and Felton Spencer to coach this team. Come on, Herb Williams is not Patrick Ewing or Charles Oakley. He's not even Anthony Mason. Herb was a 12th man scrub stiff just like Lang and Spencer.

i guess Herb's career in Indiana means squat. You think his career started with the knicks or something? he wasnt always the 12th man.

I meant his career with New York. Who cares what he did with Indiana? How should that matter to New York?

well then whats your point. you say hes no ewing, well no ****. hes no oakley, obviously not when he was on NY, but oakley was no herb when you look at his early yrs in indy. you want a player that only thrived in NY to be their coach? thats......dumb.
Pharzeone
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7/13/2005  4:09 PM
Yet I can't think of one reason why Herb should be the coach. Hell if Paul Westphal is really interested I rather give the job to him. He has a hell of alot more experience than Herb, and actually has a clue what plays he wants to run.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Rich
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7/13/2005  4:57 PM
He had his chance.
Pharzeone
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7/13/2005  5:00 PM
I guess we could add Stan Van Gundy to the list sometime soon. LOL, I knew Riles' ego couldn't let him just sit in the stands not with the Big Turftoe, and D Wade on his team, and a signed Haslem ready to go.

Riley's coaching itch
<Jul. 13> Should Stan Van Gundy be worried about his job security in Miami? Well, it sure looks like it, writes Sun-Sentinel columnist Ethan J. Skolnick. While team president Pat Riley has said he would like to take "a little bit more of an active participation" in the context of coaching, he has yet to lend his support for Van Gundy in the face of this latest controversy.
As for Van Gundy's take? "Right now, I'm coach of the Miami Heat," he said. "I won't be in a different role with the Miami Heat."
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Elite
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7/13/2005  5:01 PM
no one asnwered my question.. is it possible if we get brown to keep herb as a assistant?
Pharzeone
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7/13/2005  5:07 PM
Posted by Elite:

no one asnwered my question.. is it possible if we get brown to keep herb as a assistant?
I guess yeah it is possible, but the question is why would you want to?
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BigAppleStar3
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7/13/2005  6:53 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by BigAppleStar3:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by BigAppleStar3:

We might as well call Andrew Lang and Felton Spencer to coach this team. Come on, Herb Williams is not Patrick Ewing or Charles Oakley. He's not even Anthony Mason. Herb was a 12th man scrub stiff just like Lang and Spencer.

i guess Herb's career in Indiana means squat. You think his career started with the knicks or something? he wasnt always the 12th man.

I meant his career with New York. Who cares what he did with Indiana? How should that matter to New York?

well then whats your point. you say hes no ewing, well no ****. hes no oakley, obviously not when he was on NY, but oakley was no herb when you look at his early yrs in indy. you want a player that only thrived in NY to be their coach? thats......dumb.
BigAppleStar3
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7/13/2005  6:55 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by BigAppleStar3:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by BigAppleStar3:

We might as well call Andrew Lang and Felton Spencer to coach this team. Come on, Herb Williams is not Patrick Ewing or Charles Oakley. He's not even Anthony Mason. Herb was a 12th man scrub stiff just like Lang and Spencer.

i guess Herb's career in Indiana means squat. You think his career started with the knicks or something? he wasnt always the 12th man.

I meant his career with New York. Who cares what he did with Indiana? How should that matter to New York?

well then whats your point. you say hes no ewing, well no ****. hes no oakley, obviously not when he was on NY, but oakley was no herb when you look at his early yrs in indy. you want a player that only thrived in NY to be their coach? thats......dumb.

Don't put words in my mouth.

There are just some fans here that want to give Herb Williams the job JUST because he was an ex-Knick. If he's soc qualified, why aren't other teams talking to him? Herb wouldn't even get an interview for an assitant coach job if he didn't have ties to New York.
OldFan
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7/13/2005  10:30 PM
If the thinking is stick with Herb unless Brown is available - which seems to be the thinking - I'm OK with that.

Brown is the only guy out there, now that we have a shot at, who I think is a great coach. With everyone else I just as soon give Herb a shot.
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