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i really think this team needs to take a chance on Kwame
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jaydh
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7/10/2005  5:54 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:
Posted by rvhoss:

He's not the biggest bust, but...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3697520

even rvhoss says the guy is a bust. I'm glad you are not a GM, jay

o, everyone bow down. If rvhoss says it, and fox sports says it, it must be true!!!!! You are mislead and its ok, many NY fans are. they are the most passionate, but def not the most knowledgable.
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bigpimpin
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7/10/2005  5:57 PM
it's true because i watch basketball games. Kwame brown is a loser.

end of story.

You have the audacity to speak on knowledge but you are in here trying to convince someone that Kwame Brown isn't a bust.

you are borderline sick

"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
jaydh
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7/10/2005  6:01 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

it's true because i watch basketball games. Kwame brown is a loser.

end of story.

You have the audacity to speak on knowledge but you are in here trying to convince someone that Kwame Brown isn't a bust.

you are borderline sick

the same could be said about someone trying to say KT was as good as you make him out to be.
bigpimpin
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7/10/2005  6:07 PM
KT was the best inside player for the Knicks last year. Micheal Ruffin played harder for Washington last year than number 1 pick 7'0 260 pounds of razzle and dazzle Kwame Brown.

i knew i had won this debate when you started going back to your tiresome KT threads-get a clue---the bum KT got the Knicks a 1st round pick and Q richardson.

that's what the bum got your team.

all Kwame got was a label of being a bust. wake up dude

"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
jaydh
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7/10/2005  6:14 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

KT was the best inside player for the Knicks last year.

thats not saying much at all.
Posted by bigpimpin:

Micheal Ruffin played harder for Washington last year than number 1 pick 7'0 260 pounds of razzle and dazzle Kwame Brown.

you mean when Kwame was hurt most the year and Ruffin averages a powerful 1.4ppg and 4rpg. Yea good example.
Posted by bigpimpin:

i knew i had won this debate when you started going back to your tiresome KT threads-get a clue---the bum KT got the Knicks a 1st round pick and Q richardson.

overvalued.. any knowledgable knick fan will tell you we ripped them off, no way is KT worth a 1st round pick alone, at his age and salary.
Posted by bigpimpin:

all Kwame got was a label of being a bust. wake up dude

media labels players all the time, doesnt mean they are true.
tkf
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7/10/2005  6:18 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

kwame is a lazy injury bug who somehow managed to get kicked off the team while the team was playing plaoff games, nevertheless. Yeah, he is 7'0 260 but he was 7'0 260 last year also.

Isiah might want a player who actually plays hard

Oh hell we actually might agree here

Anyway, you make a good point, kwame although young and 7'0 was lazy and despite all the excuses he got himself kicked off a playoff team, that was the first time I have ever seen anything like that. I don't know if I want to part with Q, I mean look at the value of swingmen right now, if I am going to part with Q, I would like a little more than a young question mark in Kwame... But where do we turn to get another big to play with Frye?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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7/10/2005  6:20 PM
big - for ALL the crap that has been kwame's career so far, he's ONLY 23. so let's say we get him, and it takes us 2-3 years to get his head and game right (b/c he has the tools) - that still leaves him with 5-10 years of really really good play.

and if he doesn't work out, then oh well, it doesn't work out.

everything you say about him is correct...so far.

but as a person - i was a completely different person at 23 than i was at 27. and we're talking about mentally b/c the physical gifts are there for kwame.

so you have to then talk about where we are as an organization. can we take a risk like this or do we have to just keep assembling quality players that have their heads on straight?

i, for one, will UNDERSTAND if we make a move for kwame. just like i would've UNDERSTOOD if we took a 17 year old bynum. sometimes you need to make a high risk move and hope for the best.

so if we can move a player who is good but not ESSENTIAL, then getting kwame is not a bad move. if he remains a bum, then it's ok b/c this organization has had bums here for the past 5 years - but at least this one had a high return possibility unlike the others. so it is a step in the right direction despite the risk.

with that said - sweets should not be in the package - no way no how. he's not only right in the head, he's a GOOD GOOD player.

and trading a guard is not that painful b/c there are PLENTY of guards out there to fill in or draft.
tkf
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7/10/2005  6:22 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

are you trying to compare Sprewell talentwith the talent of a bust named Kwame Brown? Are you actually thinking that if Kwame comes to New york that he will actually play harder? If he can't make it in Washington playing alongside MJ ---where he cried like a b---then how is he going to make it playing in the bright lights of New York City playing with Marbury under Isiah?????


Some of you guys need to stop!

Sprewell was a low draft pick who worked hard to become an All-Star BEFORE he came to NY. He is a new york type of guy.

Kwame is a deer.

The sky must be falling because we agree again..
Spree was a second team all NBA player(If I am correct here) before he came to the knicks. The only reason why we were able to obtain his services is because he put his hands on his coach. That is it. No one questioned spree's heart, desire, or talent, two different situations here between spree and kwame.
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BRIGGS
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7/10/2005  6:23 PM
[quote]
Posted by bigpimpin:

KT was the best inside player for the Knicks last year. Micheal Ruffin played harder for Washington last year than number 1 pick 7'0 260 pounds of razzle and dazzle Kwame Brown.

i knew i had won this debate when you started going back to your tiresome KT threads-get a clue---the bum KT got the Knicks a 1st round pick and Q richardson.

that's what the bum got your team.

all Kwame got was a label of being a bust. wake up dude

So Mike Sweetney scks, Kwame brown is a bust, Kurt thomas is great so i guess in your world we are OK with Chaaning Frye and Mo hitman Taylor starting. Acquiring big men is a tough thing right now, which is the main reason why I accept picking Frye, because he has size and potential. I mean I can name a problem with any big man on the amrket, Stomile swift is as dumbas nails, James LOL Hunter as less skill than my grnadmother

its easy to say someone scks but the Knicks are in a position here that they need to take a reasonable chance. For a guy who has put up games like 30-20 25 and 13 going into the end of the season 2 years ago, he was one of the hottest names and got hurt, he hasnt played up to number 1 status, but Im looking for a guy now that can get me 14-8 and alter shots. I think Kwame can do that. The Ghost of Patrick isnt coming back here. Its very easy to call out other people but have 0 plan your self, why even bother
who cares if someone responds with criticms all the time yet cant think of a solution, glad you watch basketball and show your superior intellect. either add a reasonable solution or sssssssh!
RIP Crushalot😞
tkf
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7/10/2005  6:26 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

for all of you Kurt thomas haters, i'm glad that he will now play in a winning environment so you can stop with the Trade Kurt threads.

The same way you harped on what we didn't have last year will be the same way you will harp thi year. If you lose your best inside player then guess what you have left.

a team of 40% shooters and no rebounders

Actually I liked Kt but I wanted him gone, he just didn't fit in what IT wanted to do now, but Kt is a horse, we just needed younger and longer, that is why I like the picks we got and I like Frye(one of the few here). The key is patience, a lot of us wanted to rebuild and overhaul this roster, well here we are. I do think we need another big to help replace KT's production until frye is set and ready, but thinking that we are going to take guys who have never produced like kwame, plug him in and get immediate production is unrealistic. If we do get kwame like everything else with young players it is going to take time.. What confuses me is that people are crying to get kwame and yet they are down on frye who embodies everything kwame is not, hard work, dedication and the desire to be a real NBA player.. Go figure..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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7/10/2005  6:35 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

big - for ALL the crap that has been kwame's career so far, he's ONLY 23. so let's say we get him, and it takes us 2-3 years to get his head and game right (b/c he has the tools) - that still leaves him with 5-10 years of really really good play.

and if he doesn't work out, then oh well, it doesn't work out.

everything you say about him is correct...so far.

but as a person - i was a completely different person at 23 than i was at 27. and we're talking about mentally b/c the physical gifts are there for kwame.

so you have to then talk about where we are as an organization. can we take a risk like this or do we have to just keep assembling quality players that have their heads on straight?

i, for one, will UNDERSTAND if we make a move for kwame. just like i would've UNDERSTOOD if we took a 17 year old bynum. sometimes you need to make a high risk move and hope for the best.

so if we can move a player who is good but not ESSENTIAL, then getting kwame is not a bad move. if he remains a bum, then it's ok b/c this organization has had bums here for the past 5 years - but at least this one had a high return possibility unlike the others. so it is a step in the right direction despite the risk.

with that said - sweets should not be in the package - no way no how. he's not only right in the head, he's a GOOD GOOD player.

and trading a guard is not that painful b/c there are PLENTY of guards out there to fill in or draft.

Dj, that is a very good post, but this is where I get frustrated. All of a sudden people in here want to take a chance with kwame, give him leeway, give the kid a break he had it rough, but he has all this upside.. Well look at this,Frye is 22, younger than kwame, yet people don't talk about his high ceiling, and I don't want to hear phycially, frye is every bit the athlete kwame is and fry has good hands, big hands and a great shooting touch. Yet people in here are ready to give up on frye, wishing we had gotten another HS player who has yet to prove anything on a level higher than HS basketball... that frustrates me. I would not mind giving kwame a shot, heck he could be a fantastic player and if all goes our way he and frye could give us a front line over the next 10 years that could dominate. I just want to know why are we so quick to hype up non-knicks players, put down our own and as soon as they become knicks, we wish we had someone else. I guess this is just the NY way.. I just don't like or agree with it...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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7/10/2005  6:54 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by djsunyc:

big - for ALL the crap that has been kwame's career so far, he's ONLY 23. so let's say we get him, and it takes us 2-3 years to get his head and game right (b/c he has the tools) - that still leaves him with 5-10 years of really really good play.

and if he doesn't work out, then oh well, it doesn't work out.

everything you say about him is correct...so far.

but as a person - i was a completely different person at 23 than i was at 27. and we're talking about mentally b/c the physical gifts are there for kwame.

so you have to then talk about where we are as an organization. can we take a risk like this or do we have to just keep assembling quality players that have their heads on straight?

i, for one, will UNDERSTAND if we make a move for kwame. just like i would've UNDERSTOOD if we took a 17 year old bynum. sometimes you need to make a high risk move and hope for the best.

so if we can move a player who is good but not ESSENTIAL, then getting kwame is not a bad move. if he remains a bum, then it's ok b/c this organization has had bums here for the past 5 years - but at least this one had a high return possibility unlike the others. so it is a step in the right direction despite the risk.

with that said - sweets should not be in the package - no way no how. he's not only right in the head, he's a GOOD GOOD player.

and trading a guard is not that painful b/c there are PLENTY of guards out there to fill in or draft.

Dj, that is a very good post, but this is where I get frustrated. All of a sudden people in here want to take a chance with kwame, give him leeway, give the kid a break he had it rough, but he has all this upside.. Well look at this,Frye is 22, younger than kwame, yet people don't talk about his high ceiling, and I don't want to hear phycially, frye is every bit the athlete kwame is and fry has good hands, big hands and a great shooting touch. Yet people in here are ready to give up on frye, wishing we had gotten another HS player who has yet to prove anything on a level higher than HS basketball... that frustrates me. I would not mind giving kwame a shot, heck he could be a fantastic player and if all goes our way he and frye could give us a front line over the next 10 years that could dominate. I just want to know why are we so quick to hype up non-knicks players, put down our own and as soon as they become knicks, we wish we had someone else. I guess this is just the NY way.. I just don't like or agree with it...

the way i see it is this, briggs was the first guy here on bynum and hyped him up to no end. then people either went to the extreme FOR bynum or against bynum. caught in the ruckus was frye b/c that's who we were going to draft AND plays the same position.

so it's not really about frye here anymore, it's more about the other people we didn't draft. that's what sucks.

when you look at frye - i see a ROOKIE. i see a big man that will have trouble adjusting to the league and it will take time to develop. but that's fine b/c HE'S A ROOKIE. that's what usually happens with rookie big men. he's not amare, he's not bosh. but that doesn't mean he can't be good. and with the track record aguirre has with big men (j.o. and sweets), then i really am not worried about frye. alot of people already pegged him as this or that - which is fine but we really don't know until he gets out there and gets minutes. some even said they expect some big #'s already b/c he's the #8 pick. that's their prerogative but even if he's a DUD this season and has 60 nights of only 5 mins of action b/c of foul trouble or just looks lost - that's fine. he has a 3 year window to show growth just like every other rookie. and the same thing applies to him (like kwame) - if he's given a legit shot, and takes 3 years to develop, even if he S CKS the first 2 of them, he'll still have 10 years left in him.
tkf
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7/10/2005  7:00 PM
good points Dj, but we must remember both bosh and amare hot their struggles in their first year, and really this was a break out year for bosh, I wasn't too impressed with him his first year either and I am still iffy on him now... Again frye will need time but I will say the talent is there, that we can't deny...

[Edited by - tkf on 07/10/2005 19:01:42]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Ira
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7/10/2005  8:38 PM
This thread got me curious - particularly the comparisons of Kwame and Kurt, so I looked at the numbers. Since Kurt played many more minutes, I multiplied Kwame's stats by the ratio of Kurts to Kwame's minutes to erase that descrepancy. So Kurt's per game numbers were
11.5 points, 10.4 rebounds and .99 blocks. Kwame's numbers (after the adjustment) were 11.6 points, 8.1 rebounds and .60 blocs. Kurt shot 47.1% from the field to Kwame's 46% and Kurt shot 78.6% to Kwame's 57.4% from the line.

Number wise, Kurt's numbers were much better. When you consider the intangibles of character and intensity, Kurt is better still. Kwame's been in the league for four years now and he hasn't done anything particularly well in any of those seasons. Why would anyone want him on the Knicks?
jaydh
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7/10/2005  8:51 PM
if kwame wasnt injured for most of last season and his numbers consistently rose like they did in his first few seasons, i doubt anyone would be doubting him. he was on track to be a 12+ppg 8+rpg, last season without the injury.

Ira, to me, the problem with that comparison is that KT is not going to be getting any better, while Kwame will. KT has maxed out at what Kwame is nearly averaging now. And thats with Kwame being out for most the year.

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/10/2005 20:52:27]
BRIGGS
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7/10/2005  8:52 PM
Posted by Ira:

This thread got me curious - particularly the comparisons of Kwame and Kurt, so I looked at the numbers. Since Kurt played many more minutes, I multiplied Kwame's stats by the ratio of Kurts to Kwame's minutes to erase that descrepancy. So Kurt's per game numbers were
11.5 points, 10.4 rebounds and .99 blocks. Kwame's numbers (after the adjustment) were 11.6 points, 8.1 rebounds and .60 blocs. Kurt shot 47.1% from the field to Kwame's 46% and Kurt shot 78.6% to Kwame's 57.4% from the line.

Number wise, Kurt's numbers were much better. When you consider the intangibles of character and intensity, Kurt is better still. Kwame's been in the league for four years now and he hasn't done anything particularly well in any of those seasons. Why would anyone want him on the Knicks?


Not true. Remember Kwame was hurt ALL of last year, even when he came back.

Let's look at Kwame's numbers the year before

2003 WAS 74 30.3 3.9 8.0 48.9 0.0 0.0 50.0 3.1 4.5 68.3 2.4 5.0 7.4 1.5 1.9 0.9 0.7 2.0 10.9


11 points 7.5 reb 1 block shooting 49% in 30 minutes at TWENTY-ONE Years old this is comparable to almost any year KT had in his prime. Heck KT wasnt even in the league until he was 23.
Thats what I am looking at-if he can put up 11 points 7.5 reb and shoot 50% at 21--as long as he is healthy and works hard--why cant he get those figures to 16-17 points 10 rebounds in 36 minutes reasobaly soon, like this year or next as long as he is healthy? I mean at a minimum, he should be 15 +9 with 35+ minutes.

If he works hard, if he stays healthy, he has the body and physical skills to even do better than that. I mean how many 21 YO have gams like 30 points 20 rebounds? 23 points 15 rebounds 5 blocks? Not many.

Now i think if he IS healthy and playing with a good PG who is willing to get him the ball--why can kwame avg 16-17 points? I bluntly feel he can.

I think we should go out of our way to get him. Q is a dime a dozen--we can replace Q--finding a big is a whole different ball of wax.
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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7/10/2005  11:30 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Ira:

This thread got me curious - particularly the comparisons of Kwame and Kurt, so I looked at the numbers. Since Kurt played many more minutes, I multiplied Kwame's stats by the ratio of Kurts to Kwame's minutes to erase that descrepancy. So Kurt's per game numbers were
11.5 points, 10.4 rebounds and .99 blocks. Kwame's numbers (after the adjustment) were 11.6 points, 8.1 rebounds and .60 blocs. Kurt shot 47.1% from the field to Kwame's 46% and Kurt shot 78.6% to Kwame's 57.4% from the line.

Number wise, Kurt's numbers were much better. When you consider the intangibles of character and intensity, Kurt is better still. Kwame's been in the league for four years now and he hasn't done anything particularly well in any of those seasons. Why would anyone want him on the Knicks?


Not true. Remember Kwame was hurt ALL of last year, even when he came back.

Let's look at Kwame's numbers the year before

2003 WAS 74 30.3 3.9 8.0 48.9 0.0 0.0 50.0 3.1 4.5 68.3 2.4 5.0 7.4 1.5 1.9 0.9 0.7 2.0 10.9


11 points 7.5 reb 1 block shooting 49% in 30 minutes at TWENTY-ONE Years old this is comparable to almost any year KT had in his prime. Heck KT wasnt even in the league until he was 23.
Thats what I am looking at-if he can put up 11 points 7.5 reb and shoot 50% at 21--as long as he is healthy and works hard--why cant he get those figures to 16-17 points 10 rebounds in 36 minutes reasobaly soon, like this year or next as long as he is healthy? I mean at a minimum, he should be 15 +9 with 35+ minutes.

If he works hard, if he stays healthy, he has the body and physical skills to even do better than that. I mean how many 21 YO have gams like 30 points 20 rebounds? 23 points 15 rebounds 5 blocks? Not many.

Now i think if he IS healthy and playing with a good PG who is willing to get him the ball--why can kwame avg 16-17 points? I bluntly feel he can.

I think we should go out of our way to get him. Q is a dime a dozen--we can replace Q--finding a big is a whole different ball of wax.

i completely agree. I think a frontline of Kwame and Frye and Lee could be extremely interesting.
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Bonn1997
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7/10/2005  11:57 PM
I could definitely understand the reasoning behind trading Q for Kwame and I wouldn't blame Isiah for doing it. I wouldn't, though. I think Q is one notch below being an all-star. He's a very solid player and I think he's too much to give up on someone that you have no clue what you'll get from. I'd trade TT and take back a bad contract or Penny and take back a bad contract or include Sweetney or SA's 2006 #1 pick.
bigpimpin
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7/11/2005  12:01 AM
Posted by Ira:

This thread got me curious - particularly the comparisons of Kwame and Kurt, so I looked at the numbers. Since Kurt played many more minutes, I multiplied Kwame's stats by the ratio of Kurts to Kwame's minutes to erase that descrepancy. So Kurt's per game numbers were
11.5 points, 10.4 rebounds and .99 blocks. Kwame's numbers (after the adjustment) were 11.6 points, 8.1 rebounds and .60 blocs. Kurt shot 47.1% from the field to Kwame's 46% and Kurt shot 78.6% to Kwame's 57.4% from the line.

Number wise, Kurt's numbers were much better. When you consider the intangibles of character and intensity, Kurt is better still. Kwame's been in the league for four years now and he hasn't done anything particularly well in any of those seasons. Why would anyone want him on the Knicks?

Good post.


see, this is what it is---most Knick fans are dreamers---they think that a deer will suddenly become a hunter.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
crzymdups
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7/11/2005  12:03 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I could definitely understand the reasoning behind trading Q for Kwame and I wouldn't blame Isiah for doing it. I wouldn't, though. I think Q is one notch below being an all-star. He's a very solid player and I think he's too much to give up on someone that you have no clue what you'll get from. I'd trade TT and take back a bad contract or Penny and take back a bad contract or include Sweetney or SA's 2006 #1 pick.

If Kwame put up 15 and 8, or heck, even 13 and 8, he'd be a lot closer to an all-star than Q. but I guess Q has the automatic invite to the 3pt contest.

But seriously, I like Q, but if you can get Kwame for Q, you do it. I think it's highly likely that either Q or Crawford move for Kwame. With Bobby Simmons, Redd, Allen, Hughes and JJ all unavailable, Washington needs a SG or they need to say to fans - it's time for another MAJOR step back.

I guess one part of this trade that is very important that I've heard nothing about is: Does Kwame WANT to come here? He has to facilitate any sign and trade as a RFA. He won't go anywhere he doesn't want to, obviously. I've taken Zeke not talking about Kwame as a sign that WAS going on, but maybe it means that Kwame doesn't want to come here and it's a moot point. Has anyone read anything about where Kwame wants to go? It seems like he's staying awful quiet.
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i really think this team needs to take a chance on Kwame
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