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Most important part of next season not W-L it is Frye
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gunsnewing
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7/5/2005  2:20 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:

I'm glad we're not putting too much pressure on the kid or anything.
isiah said if he had pick 1 he wouldve taken frye, there is no more presure than hat. he has to perform at a high level, bottom line

But who is saying that Bogut is gonna be a GREAT player? No one. At best, he'll be a solid big man. All that is asked of Frye is to be solid OVER HIS CAREER.

Oh Ill say Bogut is going to be great. Bogut is another Duncan type of player. Not in block shots, but in scoring rebounds assists and impact on the team he plays on. I fully expect Bogut to be close to OR a 20-10 player next year.

For Frye to have a successful season=14-15 points 8 rebounds 50%+FG 1.5 blocks and play good defense --I dont think hes better than Bogut, but he bypassed a LOT of what I think are better players and he set the bar high. Im putting out reasonable numbers for a guy that his boss said shouldve been pick 1. Really pick 1 for a 4 year CBB FC players is 20-10 or close to it.

So this is an acceptable level of play---hustling, disruptive defense, not getting bullied and losing position, 14-15 pts 7-8 reb 1.5 blcks and shooting 52+% in 30+ minutes. If you are boasting that a player is a number 1 pick on a team with a frail frontline, that player better get big minutes.

briggs I am 100% with you on this one. Frye better produce! he better put up better numbers then he did in College by year 2 or else I will crucify Isiah for taking him as high as 8!
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Marv
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7/5/2005  7:06 AM
Hmmmm . . .

Very interesting subplot developing among the Frye-haters.

Trying to co-opt the conditions upon which he is to be evaluated, very heavily skewed at that.

Perhaps they've consulted Karl Rove on this strategy.
Bonn1997
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7/5/2005  7:28 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:

I'm glad we're not putting too much pressure on the kid or anything.
isiah said if he had pick 1 he wouldve taken frye, there is no more presure than hat. he has to perform at a high level, bottom line
You've gotta be kidding me. He's just flattering his own player. Frye has to play well enough to justify being picked at #8, where he was actually picked! He doesn't have to play well enough to justify whatever post-draft spin his GM tells the media.
Also, the nice thing about having 3 good 1st rd picks this year, two next year, many expiring contracts, and 8 talented players under 25 is that all our eggs are not in one basket with Frye.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 07/05/2005 07:31:18]
Allanfan20
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7/5/2005  8:42 AM
I think Briggs is being a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle bit unfair to Channing Frye right now. Yes, it's ignorant to say that he would have selected Channing Frye with the #1 pick, b/c that automatically raises NY expectations. And this is 100%, absolutely not Channing Fryes fault. He can only go where his limits take him in his NBA ROOKIE SEASON. Of course we need to expect him to hustle and work his ars off, but since when does a Knick rookie, since Patrick Ewing get 15 and 8? In fact, I don't remember any besides Ewing, but I didn't live many years before Ewing was drafted, so...

This is what I expect from Frye...

Be able to earn those 30 minutes, like you said, hustle his ars off, play good D and continue to get stronger. I didn't see the kid much in college, so I can't set a bar, stats wise. Yet, you said just recently that he's bust material, and now you said he needs to be 15 and 8. Come on, at least lets give him the patience we are givng with Sweetney, b/c he came in basically the same exact situation, except his dad died and it was a different GM. Like I said, it's not his fault that Isiah can't keep his mouth shut.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Killa4luv
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7/5/2005  8:45 AM
Posted by Marv:

Hmmmm . . .

Very interesting subplot developing among the Frye-haters.

Trying to co-opt the conditions upon which he is to be evaluated, very heavily skewed at that.

Perhaps they've consulted Karl Rove on this strategy.
Yes this is very Rove-esque.

Take a quote from Isiah like: If I had the #1 pick I would have chosen him.

Then since you don't like the player use it against him with the 'logic' that since Zeke said he would have picked Frye #1, we now have expectations out of him that are consistant with a #1 pick.

Making statements like, since he was picked that high he should......

When did #8 become that high of a pick. Should Raymond Felton come in and average 15 and 8 because he was picked 5th?

In the aftermath of the post-we want Bynum era, things are gonna get really crazy around here.
Killa4luv
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7/5/2005  8:48 AM
Bynum should be putting up those numbers based on all of the hype BRIGGS pumped into these and other boards. For a guy who is projected as an NBA hall of famer, BYnum should be producing on that level next season, hes big and athletic and skillled and he recovered from a deep bone bruise and Jim Calhoun said he's gonna be yadda yadda ya and......
simrud
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7/5/2005  10:14 AM
What is so hard to understand here?

BRIGGS' point is that we picked Frye because he was the NOW player. It is assumed that in 3-4 years 6-7 guys who were picked after Frye will be better.

So if Frye does not contribute NOW, this is a terrible pick, as the one and only reason he was picked over upside players is because he is supposed to be ready to play NOW!
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bonn1997
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7/5/2005  10:20 AM
Posted by simrud:

What is so hard to understand here?

BRIGGS' point is that we picked Frye because he was the NOW player. It is assumed that in 3-4 years 6-7 guys who were picked after Frye will be better.

So if Frye does not contribute NOW, this is a terrible pick, as the one and only reason he was picked over upside players is because he is supposed to be ready to play NOW!
That's a reasonable statement. Briggs, however, was saying that Frye needs to play like a #1 draft pick because his GM made a statement flattering him after the draft.
crzymdups
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7/5/2005  10:23 AM
I actually think Frye will come in and put up around 13-14ppg, 7-8rpg and 1.5blocks, unless the Knicks get some "all-star" chucker power forward (ahem...Walker). I agree that the pick will be a disappointment if he doesn't have immediate impact. I'm willing to give him time, but I doubt the majority of the Knicks fans will be.

But what makes people think that Knicks fans would've been any more patient with Bynum? If we'd taken him 8th, it would have been Kwame in Washington all over again. Heck, I think Bynum is screwed in LA anyway. I don't think places like New York and LA are good places for high schoolers to develop. People will say, "Kobe," but honestly, can you say that kid has developed normally?
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Marv
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7/5/2005  10:26 AM
Posted by simrud:

What is so hard to understand here?

BRIGGS' point is that we picked Frye because he was the NOW player. It is assumed that in 3-4 years 6-7 guys who were picked after Frye will be better.

So if Frye does not contribute NOW, this is a terrible pick, as the one and only reason he was picked over upside players is because he is supposed to be ready to play NOW!

No I don't agree with that.

He was picked not just because he's older and expected to deliver sooner, but he was also picked becuse he's expected to be a higher value pick for this franchise overall. Of course i'd love him to come out of the gate strong, but I'm not holding him to having to deliver like a verteran NBA player as a rookie. I'm going to be real happy to see improvement out of him on a yearly basis like I would with any young player.
Knick2001
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7/5/2005  10:26 AM
I don't see it that way. Isiah has said numerous times this is a long-term project in rebuilding the Knicks and patience is needed even in New York. Frye's lucky in many ways he wasn't the top pick, as Bogut will be under much more pressure with the Bucks to live up to that draft position.
fishmike
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7/5/2005  10:32 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Frye CANNOT be a mistake pick. Frye HAS to live up to 75% of what their public expectations. Frye HAS to play 30+ minutes and HAS to put up numbers similar to what he did in school, as in 14-15 points 7-8 rebounds 1.5 blocks shooting 53-54%. Whatever coach they get HAS to be on board with giving Channing 30+ minutes, even if it costs us a game or two in the beginning.

Isiah has jumped in bed with this kid, and he has taken every Knick fan with him. There were multiple avenues we couldve went down, but this is the pass they have chosen and its PIVOTAL, PIVOTAL, PIVOTAL that it isnt a failure. The key to this season is Channing Frye, every Knick fan must understand it. I kind of feel what I know Im going to get with nate and Lee--this was a big move by Isiah, he has convulsed over this pick, obssessed over getting tghis player, saying he wouldve used pick 1 on him and I dont believe he was posturing, he believes it, and so going forward Frye becomes the most imprtant peice more so than anyone else he CANNOT fail or we have much bigger problems.
I think all thats fair except for the scoring. Something more like 10/8/1.5 and 52%. Most important having some kind of defensive presence in the frountcourt, especially on help defense.

I'm not looking for Channing to score big, just do what he did at zona, crash the boards, run, fill the lane and use those long arms to deter guards from attacking in the paint. We have good scoring on this team.

I dont really care about the numbers. If he's going for 8 points, 6 boards and 1.5 blocks in 28 minutes but the team is playing well and he's doing a good job on defense thats great.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
CTKnicksfan
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7/5/2005  10:33 AM
Agreed, I will be surprised if Frye dosen't start or at least play significant minutes immediatley. There's no reason he should not. He's the tallest and arguably the most talented frontcourt player on the roster. If a FA center such as James, Hunter, Gadz is brought in, they should be the backup. If its Kwame or Swift, Frye should still start next to these guys at PF.

I expect decent numbers out of this guy, but expecting him to duplicate his college numbers or put up Bogut-type stats is a bit much. He's not the number 1 pick, dosen't matter what IT said about whrere he'd take him to the papers or to Mike and the Dog. He should be a solid contributor.

With KT gone, that should clearly be the plan. We can afford to wait for Frye to develop, but he's got to play major minutes. I agree with BRIGGS that we need to throw these guys into the fray, even if it costs us W's in the beginning.

What we CANNOT afford is to sign a guy like Walker who's expecting 40 mins every night and have all the frontcourt minutes go to Walker, MoT, Malik, and JYD, while the young guys Frye/Lee/Sweets all sit.
NYKBocker
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7/5/2005  10:57 AM
Channing Frye's offensive production should be good. He has good skills and will benefit from easy looks assuming Marbury doesn't get pissed at him and thinks he is getting too much press and starts looking him off, just like what he did to Nazr.

My only concern about Channing is his defensive rebounding and post defense. If he can produce in those 2 areas then Zeke made a heckuva pick.

BRIGGS - I agree with you that he should produce right away, cause if he wasn't picked for the here and now, why didn't he pick Gerald Green or Andrew Bynum who are all about potential.

He needs to produce, but in the first year, ALL-STAR numbers would be a tad unfair. KT type numbers with better shotblocking would be awesome from my point of view. 12 pts 10 rebs 2 ast 2.5 blks per game.
simrud
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7/5/2005  11:12 AM
12 10 2.5 is ALLSTAR numbers for a center these days.

I think that's what we all mean when we say Frye must conribute now.

As a matter of fact, if re really gets 2.5 blks a agme, I don't care if he scores 6 pts a game w/no play run for him.

Rebounding and shotblocking are much more needed on the team.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
nyvector16
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7/5/2005  11:25 AM
Although most posters on this thread have some valid points..
I think most are not taking into account the biggest reason We chose Frye over Bynum...
Bynum is a RISK... a BIGGGG Risk...
it will probably be a while before we have a pick as high as 8.
Isiah needed to Add Height...
Bogut was obviously not an option.
Frye has played 4 years in college and has a developed Basketball IQ.
Bynum has the tools... but not the experience and is more of a long term project... that may turn out great.. or may turn out to be another Kwame(tons of expectations with not so much production)...
To hold up Frye's name in some kind of impending IT crucification is a lil negatively biased at best... or just plain Anti-Knick at worst...
We should at least wait until All-Star weekend to talk informatively and intelligently about what it is we have in Frye...
BRIGGS
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7/5/2005  11:33 AM
this is a 4 year CBB player, 22 years old out of a premiere program who we shut down our entire draft for. I do NOT believe Isiah is posturing by saying he thought Frye was the best big man, because there has been small idle chatter that some other GMs felt that way as well. Whatever. You dont shut your draft down 2-3 months before the draft UNLESS there is really something special going on. Isiah has been publicly gushing on him and I expect him to put up what I feel are reasonable numbers his first year as a 4 year CBB with a high draft choice. 14 points 7 reb 1.5 blocks shooting +50% and being a disruptive entity on the D. Im not accepting 9 points 5 reb in 26 min because thats NOT good enough from a 4 year player. If that is the case, than Andrew Bynum shouldve been our pick. Go back and look at all of the guys who were really good big players in this league who played 3-4 years of CBB, only a couple didnt start off real well out of the gate. Im not putting any resure on him, it's up to Channing to live up to this billing of a high lottery pick. Either he is a Tony Battie or he is a 15+7 guy and moving up. If he is the latter, we fckd this draft up so severly its causes grievious concerns. Why do I say that--look at the statistical numbers of really good players in their first year compared to guys like Battie,Cato etc...... You cant settle for setting the bar low, he's got to play WELL out of the box.
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Pharzeone
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7/5/2005  12:25 PM
Posted by nyvector16:

Although most posters on this thread have some valid points..
I think most are not taking into account the biggest reason We chose Frye over Bynum...
Bynum is a RISK... a BIGGGG Risk...
it will probably be a while before we have a pick as high as 8.
Isiah needed to Add Height...
Bogut was obviously not an option.
Frye has played 4 years in college and has a developed Basketball IQ.
Bynum has the tools... but not the experience and is more of a long term project... that may turn out great.. or may turn out to be another Kwame(tons of expectations with not so much production)...
To hold up Frye's name in some kind of impending IT crucification is a lil negatively biased at best... or just plain Anti-Knick at worst...
We should at least wait until All-Star weekend to talk informatively and intelligently about what it is we have in Frye...

Based on what Briggs scouting on both Frye and Bynum. I expect Bynum to have a much better rookie year than Bynum. Briggs said that Bynum is not a project center, he mentioned that if he was he would not considered him for the eighth pick. Most scouts/gms disagree, so that is all I am interested in. Frye is a college senior, so he should be expected to contribute more right away, if he doesn't then Isiah looks like a fool, if Bynum doesn't contribute right away, Briggs looks silly. It is that simple for me. Both Isiah and Briggs said that the other choice was a skilled guy which is kind of like an out but its fair. I don't care what numbers either one puts up but the other has to put better numbers.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Bonn1997
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7/5/2005  1:08 PM
I do NOT believe Isiah is posturing by saying he thought Frye was the best big man
Then HOW do you explain the fact that before the draft, Isiah said he ranked the big men as follows: Bogut, Frye, Bynum?
BRIGGS
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7/5/2005  2:04 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

[quote]Posted by nyvector16:

Although most posters on this thread have some valid points..
I think most are not taking into account the biggest reason We chose Frye over Bynum...
Bynum is a RISK... a BIGGGG Risk...
it will probably be a while before we have a pick as high as 8.
Isiah needed to Add Height...
Bogut was obviously not an option.
Frye has played 4 years in college and has a developed Basketball IQ.
Bynum has the tools... but not the experience and is more of a long term project... that may turn out great.. or may turn out to be another Kwame(tons of expectations with not so much production)...
To hold up Frye's name in some kind of impending IT crucification is a lil negatively biased at best... or just plain Anti-Knick at worst...
We should at least wait until All-Star weekend to talk informatively and intelligently about what it is we have in Frye...

Based on what Briggs scouting on both Frye and Bynum. I expect Bynum to have a much better rookie year than Bynum. Briggs said that Bynum is not a project center, he mentioned that if he was he would not considered him for the eighth pick. Most scouts/gms disagree, so that is all I am interested in. Frye is a college senior, so he should be expected to contribute more right away, if he doesn't then Isiah looks like a fool, if Bynum doesn't contribute right away, Briggs looks silly. It is that simple for me. Both Isiah and Briggs said that the other choice was a skilled guy which is kind of like an out but its fair. I don't care what numbers either one puts up but the other has to put better numbers.


No I never said that. I said Bynum 10-12 minutes YR 1 20- 25 min YR 2 starter YR 3. But I do expexct Bynum to be a contributor off the bench, not just a body. I expect the same thing Biendrins did in GS.
RIP Crushalot😞
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