Posted by TMS:

it all depends on your perspective... don't undervalue the importance of a great reliever... we don't win any of those championships in the 90's w/o Mo, & that includes when he was our 7th & 8th inning relief guy in '96... a great setup man can impact 70 some odd games a year compared to 30 or so for a starter.

For only 1 inning- which may or may not be important. Our championship teams had outstanding starting pitching as well...guys that pitched great in big games.

Posted by VDesai:

Posted by TMS:

it all depends on your perspective... don't undervalue the importance of a great reliever... we don't win any of those championships in the 90's w/o Mo, & that includes when he was our 7th & 8th inning relief guy in '96... a great setup man can impact 70 some odd games a year compared to 30 or so for a starter.

For only 1 inning- which may or may not be important. Our championship teams had outstanding starting pitching as well...guys that pitched great in big games.

1 inning could very well decide a game in a late inning situation as we've often seen... there have been teams that have won the WS w/average starting pitching & a great bullpen... i don't remember the last WS team that won a championship w/a crappy bullpen tho.

no, i'm saying i think Joba's a more dominant force in the bullpen... we have a good enough starting staff if Hughes can show he can be consistent to make the playoffs... Wang will be back & i have to believe he'll be able to iron out his issues eventually... when the postseason rolls around i'd much rather have Joba pitching the 7th & 8th innings leading up to Mo than to see guys like Marte, Veras & Melancon trying to pitch what many times are the most pivotal innings of the game... what's so hard to undertand about that?

high quality starters make $20 mil. 4th starters make $10 mil.

the best closers in the game make $13 mil. the best 8th inning guys make $3 mil. there's a reason the pay scale is the way it is.

i wouldn't put Johan in the bullpen either, but he's a proven ace... Joba hasn't proven jack as a starter... don't give me this 2.85 ERA stuff, he's been very shaky as a starter & u know it... he's struggled w/location & his stuff is not nearly as electric when he's trying to space out his pitches over a 5-7 inning stint as they are when he comes in for 1 or 2... how can u not understand the premise that he's more dominant in the bullpen? all it takes is watching the games, which i'm sure you do... he tops out at 93-94 as a starter & 97-99 as a reliever... getting those extra few mph on his fastball makes his slider & curve that much more effective... pretty basic principle really.

i've seen Joba pitch well as a starter at times but he's also been shaky... as a reliever for the most part he is absolutely dominant... intimidating really... guys looked completely overmatched against him when he was pitching relief innings... his BA against as a starter this year is .306 dude... that's not that great believe it or not... compare that to his BA against as a reliever in the mid 1's & low 2's in '07 & '08 when he was pitching relief.

the fact that he can make more impact in terms of actual innings effected can be countered by the fact he can impact more than double the amount of games as a reliever like i said... it's not so cut & dry when u weigh all these factors & also look at our starting rotation & consider if we have CC, AJB, Wang, Pettitte & Hughes as our starting rotation once Wang comes back... i wouldn't consider using Hughes as a reliever because IMO he doesn't have the mentality to succeed as a late inning relief guy... Joba does, as we've already seen.

that's a good problem to have...if they're all pitching well, then it doesn't matter. but my guess would be hughes back to AAA.

Posted by djsunyc:

when the games get really important - we will use coke + melancon + bruney to get to mariano. i'll put that up against any bullpen in baseball.

I'm speechless

You're not looking at it with the proper perspective IMO. A 2.85 ERA in your first 16 starts in the majors is about as promising as it gets.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by TMS:

my guess is Joba would be put back into the bullpen... no way they'd send Hughes back to AAA if he were pitching well as a starter.

This is why you don't spend a gazillion dollars on the AJ Burnetts of the world. Now, if Joba AND Hughes play awesome and you want to make room, you can't trade Burnett b/c his contract is so huge. Plus, Wang is waiting in the wings. It's not like he's going to suck forever. He's still an awesome pitcher that just needs to work on some kinks.

He is a good vet pitcher to have though, regardless, and I'm happy to have him.

i'm sure after last season, they didn't want to take a chance on the rookies again for an entire year. plus, next season, if hughes + joba are pitching great, then they don't have to re-sign pettitte.

it's very early for hughes and joba...they are still on innings limits.

Posted by VDesai:

You're not looking at it with the proper perspective IMO. A 2.85 ERA in your first 16 starts in the majors is about as promising as it gets.

I agree with that. I think the team desperately needs him in the pen but they desperately need him starting too! It's a tough situation. I think I'll revise my previous position though. It probably won't be in his long-term interests to keep switching things around. Give starting a full chance and then evaluate.

i'm sorry bonn but i do. i think their stuff is the sh t. i also think they are mentally ready for the roles. coke has been great for us. bruney was throwing laser beams until the injury. and melancon has been highly touted for a while now. i'm sold on them and i trust them.