DLeethal wrote:Honestly kind of feels that the Knicks maybe just don’t want to resign Mitch at his number and/or don’t think he’s worth going into the apron for.

Knixkik wrote:

PatCummings wrote:Here’s an example of how we can stay under the 2nd apron by not signing Mitch, extending KAT at 4 years / $200M backloaded, bringing back Shamet, Alvarado, Huk, McCullar and drafting at 24 and 31. I assumed $10M for Shamet and $8.5M for Alvarado and still have a buffer of $1.7M. I kept Deuce, and Dadiet but we could trade them to save $

This feels reasonable and we have the ability to make changes, assuming KAT does the extension at $200M. I don’t understand the rumors about us needing to trade our picks to save $.

PLAYER | 2026-27 SALARY
Karl-Anthony Towns (Ext.) | $46,000,000
OG Anunoby | $42,500,000
Jalen Brunson | $37,739,521
Mikal Bridges | $33,482,145
Josh Hart | $20,923,760
Landry Shamet | $10,000,000
Jose Alvarado | $8,500,000
Miles McBride | $3,956,523
Pacome Dadiet | $2,983,680
Ariel Hukporti | $2,650,000
Mohamed Diawara | $2,600,000
Tyler Kolek | $2,486,995
Kevin McCullar Jr. | $2,185,633
Draft Pick #24 | $2,800,000
Draft Pick #31 | $1,400,000
TOTAL PAYROLL | $220,208,257
2ND APRON THRESHOLD | $222,000,000
BUFFER REMAINING | $1,791,743

Take a look at what KAT makes this upcoming year. And also assuming Jose at 4.5M. Your KAT and Jose numbers wouldn’t kick in this upcoming year. You have to account for what KATs contract is now since it’s already locked in.

Gemini sucks. LOL

I asked it to make sure I could do it but you’re right, it was wrong

PatCummings wrote:Ok, here’s a sample roster with KATs correct salary. No Mitch and no Alvarado in this version. Shamet still at $10M. I also removed Dadiet and included a salary for pick 40, assuming we get that for Dadiet + 55 to land a senior PG like Jaden Bradley who can compete with Kolek for the backup role. I also went with a 14 man roster instead of 15. Assume we draft Tarris Reed at 24 to replace Mitch.

PLAYER | 2026-27 SALARY
Karl-Anthony Towns | $57,078,728
OG Anunoby | $42,500,000
Jalen Brunson | $37,739,521
Mikal Bridges | $33,482,145
Josh Hart | $20,923,760
Landry Shamet | $10,000,000
Miles McBride | $3,956,523
Ariel Hukporti | $2,650,000
Mohamed Diawara | $2,600,000
Tyler Kolek | $2,486,995
Kevin McCullar Jr. | $2,185,633
Draft Pick #24 | $2,800,000
Draft Pick #31 | $1,400,000
Draft Pick #40s | $1,300,000
TOTAL PAYROLL | $221,103,305
2ND APRON THRESHOLD | $222,000,000
BUFFER REMAINING | $896,695

I’d rather let Alvarado and Shamet walk than lose Mitch.

newyorknewyork wrote:Mitch isn't an upside player. He pretty much is what he is. Will a team give starter money/role with the lack of upside and durability concerns in this cap environment?

FA Big men: Kessler, Duren, Hartenstein, M.Williams, J.Collins, Vooch, Robert Williams, Porzingis, Lopez, Looney, Wagner, Nurkic.

As well as trade candidates Allen, Ayton, Gafford, Gobert, Embiid, Sabonis.

Looking at it. Mitch's value is pretty much the same contract he currently holds. Slight increase on the Knicks end.

Mitchell got his last deal as a starting center and best player by advanced metrics on a team that had just signed their PG of the future. He played 1800 minutes and started 62 games and 48% on free throws.

Since then it's become obvious that his games and minutes need to be very carefully monitored if he's going to help a team to win. I don't think any smart team would sign him as s starter, meaning his value is capped. Paul Reed (5.6 million) or Andre Drummond (5) are better comps than iHart or Kessler.

If some teams want to sign Mitchell from 60/4, great for him. But after the playoffs, I think the Knicks have a better chance to keep him at backup money.

DLeethal wrote:Tired of winning yet?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/shamscharania/status/2069182821327905253

Granted I don't visit as much as I used to, but this was pretty funny after spending an hour reading the preceding 13 pages on this topic.

aggo wrote:trading Deuce makes the most sense because we are not going to give an extension to him again

combine that with Alvarado and Kolek, it is difficult to find minutes for deuce

And this has been par for the course for Leon Rose, trade these guys to a team on their last year where they can get the extension the Knicks won't- Obi, IQ, Randle. One big reason Leon is still undervalued is that he understands the player/ agent angle that these guys need the right situation to get paid.

newyorknewyork wrote:Pacome is due (team option) of $5.3mil the season after this one. Unless he becomes a regular rotation player earning about 20mins a game by then. Given the penny pinching the Knicks are going to be operating within. There is no way he is on the Knicks at that price.

Rose makes the front office watch the after school special "Pacome" every draft night about the dangers of late first round picks locking you into a contract for the teams worst player.

I just hopped over to basketball reference to check his minutes (247 over two seasons) but came back thinking that job one has to be getting this guy off the roster for a vet min contributor. Pacome makes Kevin Knox look like an All Star.

DLeethal wrote:So with no draft picks what does our path to resigning our guys and staying under the apron look like?

Assuming Alvarado opts in and Diawara signs at 2.6mm or so per, you have 13.4m for 4 more required slots (14 total).

Brunson / Alvarado / Kolek
Bridges / Deuce /
Hart / Diawara / Dadiet
OG /
KAT /

Each of the 4 slots you can fill with a 2nd rd pick at 1.36mmm (2026 2nd min). Or you can divide the 13.4mm differently.

With the 3 seconds now currently held, they could sign Robinson for roughly 9.32. Or they could divide the 13.4mm differently among 4 slots.

Last year they left just under 1mm for a prorated salary later in the season for the 15th slot. That remainder balance are the nickels they are fighting for if they really won’t exceed the apron.

EwingsGlass wrote:The thing is - the news, even Dolan - is confusing the 2nd Apron with the marginal luxury tax bands. Nothing “magical” changes tax wise at the 2nd apron. The luxury tax kicks in at $201m. And increases incrementally. We are going to be in the 18mm to 24mm band even under the 2nd apron. The 2nd apron just triggers more trade restrictions. The repeater tax is about 7.25(?) multiple on the last dollars spent. So to go over by 10mm costs 72.5mm in tax. That’s not “apron” math, it’s marginal repeater tax rate math.

Apologies if I am not sympathetic though. Estimates are that the Knicks ownership made 80mm bonus from this postseason alone. That’s not counting the institutional value (price valuation of the Knicks franchise) that likely increased by hundreds of millions.

I’m not saying they should throw away money. But to pass on a lotto pick that dropped to 24 - arguably the most athletic 3&D guard in the draft. Or to nickel and dime on a championship roster is the exact kind of shortsighted mentality that ignores value over price. If you don’t want to pay the COGS any more, sell the business.

The front office gets a lot of leeway - deservedly. I’ll get over the flub on Cam Carr. But I genuinely think their analysis here is flawed despite a history of good decisions. The external input on apron mechanics vs luxury tax bands is creating false outcomes at the cost of future value.

nothing to do with money IMO, more about keeping the team together long term.

EwingsGlass wrote:

DLeethal wrote:So with no draft picks what does our path to resigning our guys and staying under the apron look like?

Assuming Alvarado opts in and Diawara signs at 2.6mm or so per, you have 13.4m for 4 more required slots (14 total).

Brunson / Alvarado / Kolek
Bridges / Deuce /
Hart / Diawara / Dadiet
OG /
KAT /

Each of the 4 slots you can fill with a 2nd rd pick at 1.36mmm (2026 2nd min). Or you can divide the 13.4mm differently.

With the 3 seconds now currently held, they could sign Robinson for roughly 9.32. Or they could divide the 13.4mm differently among 4 slots.

Last year they left just under 1mm for a prorated salary later in the season for the 15th slot. That remainder balance are the nickels they are fighting for if they really won’t exceed the apron.

I expect to see Dadiet and/or Deuce and/or Kolek traded and we resign Jose, Landry, Mitch. Leon is operating as if he has a path to bringing the key guys back.