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Game of Threads: Knicks in Kings county...........Game 2
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Knicksfan
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10/25/2019  10:42 PM
franco12 wrote:everyone is slamming Fizdale, but does anyone want to give him credit for giving our guys the confidence to stay in the game and get back in it?

Now - I am a little perturbed that we're digging these ugly holes to start games.

No

Whats the point of him giving them the confidence when you aren't putting them in the best situation to play and win? Randle has been a mess the way Fiz is using him, but today was definitely more obvious because he tried even harder to force things his way. Bad choice.

DSJr is a mess right now. Frank may make mistakes, but DSJr looks like he needs many things worked out OFF THE COURT. If you aren't gonna play Frank, which he should, then at least deactivate DSJR to get him right and use Kadeem Allen as the backup PG.

Stop forcing RJ to be the PG. Its one thing that RJ can handle the organizing duties in certain possessions. ITS ANOTHER THING TO PLAY HIM AGAINST FASTER GUYS! Its not even fair to RJ!

The offense is a mess and if it wasn't for a hot Trier and a collective fight from the whole team, this would've been a blowout.

A coach should make the best out of his roster and put his players in the best possession to succeed. Fix seems to have his own agendas: prove his RJ at PG works, fix DSJr during games, keep Frank off the court, have no offensive plan, especially in crunch time.

Great coaching!

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Welpee
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10/25/2019  10:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/25/2019  10:45 PM
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, ifI was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

Yeah, but what you get from Frank on defense is more than offset by what you DON'T get from him on offense.
Nalod
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10/25/2019  10:45 PM
KYrie is unstoppable at times. He is a top notch closer. We don’t have one.
I saw a lot of bad execution tonite. Glad he had Knox out there. The drive was a good one.
Somme of you are miserable. It was not easy game to watch but kyrie earned his keep tonite. Credit him.
CrushAlot
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10/25/2019  10:45 PM
Papabear wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Welpee wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:Good D by Barrett on the Irving 3...Not sure how much more you can do.
I know. Clyde acting like Irving had a real PG guarding him. If Barrett gets on him too close Irving blows right by him. Also, wasn't Irving like 1-7 on threes until he hit the back breaker?

Yeah...he finished 2/8 for the game, so he was.

Barrett has some length, so he can play back a bit. I was obviously pissed off when Irving hit the 3, but I didn't get pissed off with Barrett, who actually showed some decent lateral movement at times.

He is still very young physically, but you can see the potential for him to be a pretty good defender as he matures.


Papabear Says

If he can't knock down free throws then he may cause us to loose as many games as we win. If we are ahead by 1 point with 20 seconds to go do you really want RJ to handle the ball and go to the free throw line?? I don't think so at this time in his career. He should practice shooting 500 free throws every day.

My guess is he does practice 500 free throws a day. For away games he reportedly gets to the arena an hour before the team’s early bus. Hard to take out a guy that out works the rest of the team and out preforms most of his teammates.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CleaverGreene
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10/25/2019  10:46 PM
Papabear wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Welpee wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:Good D by Barrett on the Irving 3...Not sure how much more you can do.
I know. Clyde acting like Irving had a real PG guarding him. If Barrett gets on him too close Irving blows right by him. Also, wasn't Irving like 1-7 on threes until he hit the back breaker?

Yeah...he finished 2/8 for the game, so he was.

Barrett has some length, so he can play back a bit. I was obviously pissed off when Irving hit the 3, but I didn't get pissed off with Barrett, who actually showed some decent lateral movement at times.

He is still very young physically, but you can see the potential for him to be a pretty good defender as he matures.


Papabear Says

If he can't knock down free throws then he may cause us to loose as many games as we win. If we are ahead by 1 point with 20 seconds to go do you really want RJ to handle the ball and go to the free throw line?? I don't think so at this time in his career. He should practice shooting 500 free throws every day.


Was looking at his D on this particular play...not the fact that Fizdale had him playing point. I'd rather have Barrett moving without the ball more than he is directing the offense.

The real issue is that except for Ellington, and Knox, especially in the 1st half, we don't move without the ball very much. I think Barrett will be a good passer, but if guys aren't moving without the ball the offense ain't going anywhere.

There are three classes of men; lovers of wisdom, lovers of honor, and lovers of gain. (Plato)
CleaverGreene
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10/25/2019  10:49 PM
Welpee wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, ifI was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

Yeah, but what you get from Frank on defense is more than offset by what you DON'T get from him on offense.

Frank would have been a defensive substitute.
There are three classes of men; lovers of wisdom, lovers of honor, and lovers of gain. (Plato)
Knicksfan
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10/25/2019  10:49 PM
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, if I was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

And you would be missing the point that I agree with you, but RJ shouldn't have been the one defending him.

Frank or Peyton would've made some difference. But its not even about that play, as you say sometimes you have to give a player credit for a shot.

But Fiz seems to be a stubborn a-hole that would rather be right on his RJ at PG experiment than actually putting his players on the best positions to win.

RJ shouldn't be straight up playing PG. Don't trust Smith Jr. or Frank? Activate Kadeem Allen then! stop playing RJ out of position!

Knicks_Fan
Allanfan20
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10/25/2019  10:50 PM
Nalod wrote:KYrie is unstoppable at times. He is a top notch closer. We don’t have one.
I saw a lot of bad execution tonite. Glad he had Knox out there. The drive was a good one.
Somme of you are miserable. It was not easy game to watch but kyrie earned his keep tonite. Credit him.

I’m not robbing Kyrie of credit. He’s a star and he is a closer. Any body should be able to see that. My problem is that when he’s a lousy defender and he has 5 fouls, he should be sticking out like a sore thumb. He was guarding Knox and Barrett at times, both of whom were playing well. There is no way the Knicks shouldn’t have capitalized but they managed to ignore it. The punishment was that 3. Good job.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
newyorknewyork
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10/25/2019  10:52 PM
Kemet wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Fiz get Randle out of the game damn

Fizdale's not listening .. Trier Gibson and Ellington 4th qtr. performance almost had the win. No coaches design play when we had the ball and a 3 pt lead, and no coaches design play to score 2 pts to tie the game for overtime !!!

All we do is Iso. Barrett gets frozen out the game for long periods unless forced to play point. Knox can hit 2 threes in a row and get no plays drawn up for him after that. Like him coming off screens. Will get frozen out the game for long stretches. We dont run PNR with Randle instead of iso. We look to shoot over 2-3 defenders rather than looking to feed the shooters.

0 design for easy buckets. 0 design to get everyone involved in a offensive flow.

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fwk00
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10/25/2019  10:56 PM
Knicksfan wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:1) You don’t attack Kyrie when he has 5 fouls while he’s also a lousy defender. I am shocked nobody is bringing that up.

2) What happened to Elfrid. Why couldn’t he guard Kyrie at the end? And again.... has Frank been this bad in practice that you can’t bring him in for defensive purposes?

3) Randle and Mitch are seriously low IQ players. Morris is sometimes a moron too but he’s at least a little more reliable.

4) Fouling and almost fouling 3 point shooters is inexplicable.

5) The fouls and TOs.

1) Its part of the "WTF was RJ doing playing PG up to that point"! I get RJ does well organizing the offense sometimes, BUT THAT DOESNT MAKE HIM A FREAKING PG, MORESO TO THE POINT OF DEFENDING A QUICKER PG LIKE KYRIE ON THAT POSSESSION!!

2) I have the same question!

3) Which makes the coach more important, unless he also has a low IQ.

4) Yes

5) Y-FREAKING-ES

Let's revisit item #1.

Why, this early in the season is RJ playing the PG position. If you want to develop RJ without burning him out or setting himself up for failure, then let him play the 2/3 where he has physical advantages. In losing contests, sure, take over at PG and get some experience.

But also under item #1, what the hell is fiz looking at when he suggested Randle be a point forward???? I mean really. He should not be dribbling that ball as much as he is. If that's Fizdale's idea of offense then resign MELO fer crissakes.

And if DSJ is at full strength, bench him.


(#2) Also under item #1, yes accountability ASSUMING ITS ADMINISTERED CONSISTENTLY is a good thing. To jerk Frank out at the first mistake while watching a sh@tshow of turnovers, fouls, and schoolyard organization is draconian. Furthermore, the cacophony of hate being directed at Frank has resigned me to think he should be traded asap. He's just a whipping boy here.

There were plenty of minutes in this game where he coulda/shoulda been used - same with Payton. RJ/Trier/Ellington are not PGs and should only be used when you need the firepower there. Trier in particular, adds very little to the defensive end which offsets the occasional scoring run.

#3) Hold Randle and Morris accountable just like Frankie. YES. Move Knox over to the 4. RJ to the 3. Now add Trier/Ellington/Dotson at the 2. How sensible is that?

#4) Fouling is bad enough. Getting lit up because your best perimeter defender is not allowed a mistake is batsh@t bad coaching.

#5) NO ACCOUNTABILITY for chronic offenders. Are we competing for a league record?
Allanfan20
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10/25/2019  10:56 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Kemet wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Fiz get Randle out of the game damn

Fizdale's not listening .. Trier Gibson and Ellington 4th qtr. performance almost had the win. No coaches design play when we had the ball and a 3 pt lead, and no coaches design play to score 2 pts to tie the game for overtime !!!

All we do is Iso. Barrett gets frozen out the game for long periods unless forced to play point. Knox can hit 2 threes in a row and get no plays drawn up for him after that. Like him coming off screens. Will get frozen out the game for long stretches. We dont run PNR with Randle instead of iso. We look to shoot over 2-3 defenders rather than looking to feed the shooters.

0 design for easy buckets. 0 design to get everyone involved in a offensive flow.

The problem is that Fizdale said his focus in training camp was primarily defense and he’s hardly come up with set plays. Meanwhile, our defense is terrible for stretches. Sometimes it’s good but it usually isn’t. What does that say right there?

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Papabear
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10/25/2019  10:57 PM
Papabear Says

Knox looks like he is playing in slow motion.If he wants to survive in this league he better put more energy in his game. I saw him eat the ball a couple of times tonight. As big as he is he better learn to rebound the ball at the rim.

Papabear
CleaverGreene
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10/25/2019  10:58 PM
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, if I was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

And you would be missing the point that I agree with you, but RJ shouldn't have been the one defending him.

Frank or Peyton would've made some difference. But its not even about that play, as you say sometimes you have to give a player credit for a shot.

But Fiz seems to be a stubborn a-hole that would rather be right on his RJ at PG experiment than actually putting his players on the best positions to win.

RJ shouldn't be straight up playing PG. Don't trust Smith Jr. or Frank? Activate Kadeem Allen then! stop playing RJ out of position!


Not sure where Fizdale is going on offense, but we saw the same crap from last year, tonight. Even Trier, who had a good game offensively, was playing a lot of 1/1 ball.

We saw Ellington moving without the ball and hitting shots off passes for a short spurt, but, in general, we did not move well without the ball.

There are three classes of men; lovers of wisdom, lovers of honor, and lovers of gain. (Plato)
Papabear
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10/25/2019  10:58 PM
Papabear Says

Let's face it Frank is not Fitz guy.

Papabear
CleaverGreene
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10/25/2019  11:01 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Kemet wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Fiz get Randle out of the game damn

Fizdale's not listening .. Trier Gibson and Ellington 4th qtr. performance almost had the win. No coaches design play when we had the ball and a 3 pt lead, and no coaches design play to score 2 pts to tie the game for overtime !!!

All we do is Iso. Barrett gets frozen out the game for long periods unless forced to play point. Knox can hit 2 threes in a row and get no plays drawn up for him after that. Like him coming off screens. Will get frozen out the game for long stretches. We dont run PNR with Randle instead of iso. We look to shoot over 2-3 defenders rather than looking to feed the shooters.

0 design for easy buckets. 0 design to get everyone involved in a offensive flow.


Knox showed some good movement without the ball in the first half...kind of disappeared later.

You just don't get a sense that we have a system. There are moments when we look like a team on offense, then we devolve into that iso crap.

There are three classes of men; lovers of wisdom, lovers of honor, and lovers of gain. (Plato)
Knicksfan
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10/25/2019  11:02 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Knox looks like he is playing in slow motion.If he wants to survive in this league he better put more energy in his game. I saw him eat the ball a couple of times tonight. As big as he is he better learn to rebound the ball at the rim.

Knox is showing progression. His shot looks great, keeps his composure out there. His D is a work-in-progress but he stays active out there.

He was very far from the problem tonight.

Knicks_Fan
fwk00
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10/25/2019  11:02 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Kemet wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Fiz get Randle out of the game damn

Fizdale's not listening .. Trier Gibson and Ellington 4th qtr. performance almost had the win. No coaches design play when we had the ball and a 3 pt lead, and no coaches design play to score 2 pts to tie the game for overtime !!!

All we do is Iso. Barrett gets frozen out the game for long periods unless forced to play point. Knox can hit 2 threes in a row and get no plays drawn up for him after that. Like him coming off screens. Will get frozen out the game for long stretches. We dont run PNR with Randle instead of iso. We look to shoot over 2-3 defenders rather than looking to feed the shooters.

0 design for easy buckets. 0 design to get everyone involved in a offensive flow.

The problem is that Fizdale said his focus in training camp was primarily defense and he’s hardly come up with set plays. Meanwhile, our defense is terrible for stretches. Sometimes it’s good but it usually isn’t. What does that say right there?

What passes for defense is hustle scrambling and inevitable fouling and wide open shots for the other team.
fwk00
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10/25/2019  11:03 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Knox looks like he is playing in slow motion.If he wants to survive in this league he better put more energy in his game. I saw him eat the ball a couple of times tonight. As big as he is he better learn to rebound the ball at the rim.

He's becoming a great spot-up shooter but he and Trier are very one-dimensional players to my eye.
Knicksfan
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10/25/2019  11:04 PM
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, if I was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

And you would be missing the point that I agree with you, but RJ shouldn't have been the one defending him.

Frank or Peyton would've made some difference. But its not even about that play, as you say sometimes you have to give a player credit for a shot.

But Fiz seems to be a stubborn a-hole that would rather be right on his RJ at PG experiment than actually putting his players on the best positions to win.

RJ shouldn't be straight up playing PG. Don't trust Smith Jr. or Frank? Activate Kadeem Allen then! stop playing RJ out of position!


Not sure where Fizdale is going on offense, but we saw the same crap from last year, tonight. Even Trier, who had a good game offensively, was playing a lot of 1/1 ball.

We saw Ellington moving without the ball and hitting shots off passes for a short spurt, but, in general, we did not move well without the ball.

What's worse?

He kept saying he was giving the team free reign on offense last year.

Before the start of this one, he admits he didn't give them set plays but this team will because they have experienced guys.

And you get the SAME RESULT but with a crazier usage of his available players.

Fiz so far has proven to be a minus on this franchise so far.

Knicks_Fan
CrushAlot
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10/25/2019  11:16 PM
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
CleaverGreene wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:Fiz has been playing with fire all night long with RJ at PG

Not because he can't be a decent organizer on D, but he is slower than Kyrie at PG.

GOT BURNED IN THAT 3PTR

Thats on FIZ


His D on the 3 was fine...it was just a good shot. He closed on it well and got a hand in his face. Irving was 1/7 from 3 before that shot, too.

Dude, a real quick PG would've reacted faster to the 3 and probably created more disturbance on Kyrie.

RJ didn't have to be there at PG! YOU HAVE THREE FREAKING PGS AND ONE OF THEM IS GOOD AT DEFENSE!!!

Fiz is a real problem. If this team is again not trying to win, then WTF is he doing not using Frank out there, especially on a position where you can use his strength!?!?

Frank is the only one who might have made a difference. Irving wouldn't be bothered by Payton or Smith, and Trier probably would have fouled him.

Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit for making a good shot...and given how he was shooting, if I was defending at that point, I would have been looking him to drive. The guy was 1/7 from 3 at that point. I'll continue to say Barrett played it well.

And you would be missing the point that I agree with you, but RJ shouldn't have been the one defending him.

Frank or Peyton would've made some difference. But its not even about that play, as you say sometimes you have to give a player credit for a shot.

But Fiz seems to be a stubborn a-hole that would rather be right on his RJ at PG experiment than actually putting his players on the best positions to win.

RJ shouldn't be straight up playing PG. Don't trust Smith Jr. or Frank? Activate Kadeem Allen then! stop playing RJ out of position!

I think Smith had a great camp and had taken a step forward prior to his back injury. I think Fiz keeps hoping the Smith he saw in camp will appear despite his back injury. Rhythm definitely plays a part in performance but it doesn’t overcome injuries.
I agree about Kadeem. Kadeem was one of the guys Fiz took to a playoff game this past season.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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