fitzfarm wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

Welpee wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

We also need to realize determining a "winner" shouldn't be based strictly on stats and its possible (probable) for Smith to put better numbers but the Knicks be more than pleased with what Frank brings to the table. If both players provide their teams with what they need both players come out of this a winner. But yeah, statistically you have to objectively say Smith has started out as the better player.

The biggest stat that frank is beating dsj on is efficiency and of course wins! Scoring wise yes DSJ is probably the best scoring player in this past draft. Everyone knew this before the draft,again DSJ is a terrible and i mean D rose terrible on defense.

Smiths ceiling is Steph marbury a guy who automatically gets 20 and 8 assists on a nightly basis but takes plays and games off.really struggles to be a winner.

Frank has the ability to be one of the best floor generals in the league and be the best defensive pg this league has ever seen.

I really don’t even see a comparison Frank is the supior prospect just on the fact he doesn’t need to score to be effective. He helps your team win in so many other ways, scoring is just a plus that will happen over time.

How many Mav games have you watched to say he is a bad defender?

To give a ceiling for a player after 10 games is ignorant. As would saying Smith has the ceiling of Steph Curry.

To say someone has the ability to be one of the best floor generals and best defensive guys in the league is simplistic and can probably be said of any decent defender in the draft.

You not seeing the comparisson would require watching both subjects extensively. But we will take your word for it over every other NBA level observer.

I try and watch every nba game, I’ve seen 10 mavs games, so far this year. yea they are not a fun team to watch. Yes DSJ right now is a terrible defender, he plays rose level defense. He also takes plays off ala Steph marbury. Speaking of marbury yes I see a lot of marbury in DSJ’s game, DSJ needs the ball in his hands to have a positive efficiency in the game. He’s not a elite shooter by any means but can score in bunches a lot like marbury. When his shot is on it opens the whole floor for him, and he can really attack the basket like marbury use to do. I question DSJ’s work ethic and desire just like i did when he played in college, on a losing team that he controlled as the pg/number one option. I’ve been watching DSJ for a lot longer then ten games to make a pretty sound assessment on him as a player right now. He is a scorer their is no doubt about that, and when he is scoring he can rack up assists. He’s not very active off the ball yet, he plays when the ball is in his hands. when and if he ever becomes a active player off the ball it could really make him dangerous . It looks as if he stops playing when the ball isnt in his hands, again desire to be a team player is in question just like it was in college. Like marbury the guy is a super talent on offense with the ball in his hands.

Defense he really has issues keeping up with his man. His lateral quickness is still a work in progress and he really is lazy when trying to get over screens, I shouldn’t Even say get over screens he never gets over screens Smith is always selecting to go under screens. Also he has issues on switching, there seems to be anxiety when he is on a different player sometimes leaving him all together just to get back to his man. If their is any positive on defense it’s like marbury he can get into the passing lanes for a steal or two. He really takes a noticable amount of plays off on defense. Im sure if you asked a mavs fan they would all tell you he needs to work on defense.

Like marbury all the talent is there, it will come down to work ethic and desire. Also I’m not selling the kid short on the marbury comparison, marbury was a fantastic player for many years a all star.

And again comparing frank to dsj is apples to oranges they are completely different players it shouldn’t be done.

They should just cut out the middle man and send him straight to China to be a star!

http://www.lequipe.fr/Basket/Actualites/La-polemique-lance-par-lebron-james-n-interesse-pas-frank-ntilikina/850265

Frank Ntilikina not interested in Lebron James controversy

Attending a "Clinic" with youngsters on sunday at the NBPA (the players' union) headquarters, Frank Ntilikina refused to add fuel to the fire of the controversy started by Lebron James the previous day.

Sunday evening, as the night was falling on New York, Frank Ntilikina got himself a little recreation time. The knicks' rookie point guard took part in a "clinic", a kind of a training camp for youngsters guided by a reknowned coach. On the court, property of the players union (the NBPA, located in the heart of Manhattan) and under the supervision of Chris Brickley with whom he worked during summer, the 19 years old frenchman mixed for two hours with about 30 kids aged 8 to 17. Sitting afterwards in the cosy locker room, he then accepted to talk about the experience but also about the controversy started by Lebron James the day before when he criticized the Knicks for not drafting Dennis Smith Jr, who now plays for the Dallas Mavericks.

"So, did you enjoy this clinic?"
It was pleasant, it's really nice to see how it goes, to spend time with youngsters. It is a bit like going back to the basics, of sorts. It brings back memories from when I was younger. Not much younger, it's true, but it seems like ages to me now (laughs)

"Given the context, wasn't this refreshing parenthesis all the more welcome?"
Opinion of the translator : the interviewer hints at Lebron's comments and tries to get a reaction, but Frank doesn't fall for it

Yes, it make for a welcome break. Even if it is still basketball, it's fun to do something else, try other stuff like this. The youngsters had many questions especially on the technical side.

"How are you going into the game against Cleveland knowing that Lebron James' comments may put you under unusual scrutiny?"
I will prepare the game the exact same way I always do, with the desire of improving with each game. It's not going to affect the team. People are entitled to their opinions, that's just the way it is. The team and I will be focused on what we have to do, as we do every day, to keep improving.

"Are you also aware that James' comments were more of a dig at Phil Jackson, with whom he's had a feud last year?"
Yes, I have been made aware of the context a bit but his comments are just something I heard and then well, I quickly switched to something else because I don't have much time for this. I am focused on the team and myself.

"Did your teammates' reaction, that they stuck up for you, give you confort?"
Of course! We're all together on this ship, this is the message and I think that's what's been sent by the team. Enes (Kanter, who answered James with a support for Ntilikina on sunday evening) showed it and I believe others will show it tomorrow (monday). But we're going into the game as usual, with the will to be competitive and try and beat that Cleveland team.

"Are you not physically tired, between all the games and this kind of event?"
No, I'm okay. Today was very quiet, it was far from NBA level practicing, I didn't run myself into the ground. It was just about spending time with kids and try and be helpful to them.

One thing about Phil, when he drafted these guys, he definitely looked into their mindset. Both KP and Frank have a certain mindset and approach to the game you just don't see from your typical talented young NBA player on a rookie contract. Neither seems to give a damn about anything but getting the team wins. This is how you build a culture from the ground up, you have young players who have that winning mindset. KP says he doesn't care about his records if we can't even make the playoffs. Frank when he's injured studies the playbook and memorizes it like a coach. He's a tenacious defender who looks to pass the ball and make teammates better. Not about his numbers. He is the second youngest player in the league and still raw with his basketball skill, and he's making an impact.

Love the two of them. Honestly think even if DSJ is the better player in the long run and DSJ becomes the face of the Mavs, after watching a year of Rose and KP, and two years of Melo and KP, there is no way KP would be having the season he is with DSJ. DSJ looks for his own shot first and has a high usage rate. KP needs the team built around him similar to how Hakeem's or Dirk's teams were built. Just don't see the fit with DSJ and KP. Phil was spot on, and his vision was fantastic in this regard. People can hate on him all they want, but he did wonders for us by drafting Frank and KP. These guys play the right way and bring a culture to the team that is exactly what we've needed since the 90s. We need to find defenders, shooters and passers around KP. That's how you build a winning team around a great bigman.

fitzfarm wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

Welpee wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:DS Jr is shooting 41% overall and 30% from 3. He doesn't have court vision, he's small, he is not a plus defender. Why do we need him? He reminds me of Derrick Rose, and not in a good way.

EDIT: he's also 17/29 from the free throw line (59%). Not what you want from a penetrating point guard with no vision.

The comments LBJ made were stupid. You saying he has no court vision is simplified and inaccurate. As is the whole he doesnt play defense. Typical thing people fall back on when trying to put a scorer diwn. And he ia NO WAY a DRose copy. Just watch him and you may have a different opinion. He is typically pass first when He sets up half court. He had 7 assists against Cleveland and could have had 3 or 4 more if not for missed lay ups. He is an excellent player. So far better than Frank. But it is still way too early to declare a winner. But let's not make up stuff jist to hate on the guy.

We also need to realize determining a "winner" shouldn't be based strictly on stats and its possible (probable) for Smith to put better numbers but the Knicks be more than pleased with what Frank brings to the table. If both players provide their teams with what they need both players come out of this a winner. But yeah, statistically you have to objectively say Smith has started out as the better player.

The biggest stat that frank is beating dsj on is efficiency and of course wins! Scoring wise yes DSJ is probably the best scoring player in this past draft. Everyone knew this before the draft,again DSJ is a terrible and i mean D rose terrible on defense.

Smiths ceiling is Steph marbury a guy who automatically gets 20 and 8 assists on a nightly basis but takes plays and games off.really struggles to be a winner.

Frank has the ability to be one of the best floor generals in the league and be the best defensive pg this league has ever seen.

I really don’t even see a comparison Frank is the supior prospect just on the fact he doesn’t need to score to be effective. He helps your team win in so many other ways, scoring is just a plus that will happen over time.

How many Mav games have you watched to say he is a bad defender?

To give a ceiling for a player after 10 games is ignorant. As would saying Smith has the ceiling of Steph Curry.

To say someone has the ability to be one of the best floor generals and best defensive guys in the league is simplistic and can probably be said of any decent defender in the draft.

You not seeing the comparisson would require watching both subjects extensively. But we will take your word for it over every other NBA level observer.

I try and watch every nba game, I’ve seen 10 mavs games, so far this year. yea they are not a fun team to watch. Yes DSJ right now is a terrible defender, he plays rose level defense. He also takes plays off ala Steph marbury. Speaking of marbury yes I see a lot of marbury in DSJ’s game, DSJ needs the ball in his hands to have a positive efficiency in the game. He’s not a elite shooter by any means but can score in bunches a lot like marbury. When his shot is on it opens the whole floor for him, and he can really attack the basket like marbury use to do. I question DSJ’s work ethic and desire just like i did when he played in college, on a losing team that he controlled as the pg/number one option. I’ve been watching DSJ for a lot longer then ten games to make a pretty sound assessment on him as a player right now. He is a scorer their is no doubt about that, and when he is scoring he can rack up assists. He’s not very active off the ball yet, he plays when the ball is in his hands. when and if he ever becomes a active player off the ball it could really make him dangerous . It looks as if he stops playing when the ball isnt in his hands, again desire to be a team player is in question just like it was in college. Like marbury the guy is a super talent on offense with the ball in his hands.

Defense he really has issues keeping up with his man. His lateral quickness is still a work in progress and he really is lazy when trying to get over screens, I shouldn’t Even say get over screens he never gets over screens Smith is always selecting to go under screens. Also he has issues on switching, there seems to be anxiety when he is on a different player sometimes leaving him all together just to get back to his man. If their is any positive on defense it’s like marbury he can get into the passing lanes for a steal or two. He really takes a noticable amount of plays off on defense. Im sure if you asked a mavs fan they would all tell you he needs to work on defense.

Like marbury all the talent is there, it will come down to work ethic and desire. Also I’m not selling the kid short on the marbury comparison, marbury was a fantastic player for many years a all star.

And again comparing frank to dsj is apples to oranges they are completely different players it shouldn’t be done.

Great post. This is the type of thinking needed to separate real basketball players from "potential multiple time all stars". Dennis Smith Jrs of the world can go pad their hollow selfish garbage stats on some other team with a losing record to prove it.

With that said, perhaps Kanter should have been on the floor in the last 5 mins.

I disagree that Frank needs massive work on offense. At the moment he’s a steady PG, doesn’t push the envelope too much from a scoring perspective, but he generally has gotten the offense going with his unselfish play. He makes an effort to get everyone some touches on offense, a far cry from Rose

I think tonight we saw a lot of flashes of his realized defensive potential. And he’ll probsblt get better and more consistent on that side of the ball.

Before we get discouraged about his offensive game, let’s take a trip down memory lane with Gary Payton.
GP was a 22yo rookie, 2nd overall pick. If you look at his stats from his first 3 or 4 seasons, you probably wouldn’t have been thinking this is a future HoF’er. You might even think he’s a bit of a bust
He struggled as a scorer, barely taking any 3’s for the first 4 seasons of his career.

Age 22: 7.2ppg, 6.4apg in 27+mpg.
Age 23: 9.4ppg, 6.2apg, 31+mpg.
Age 24: 13.5ppg, 4.9apg, 31+mpg.
Age 25: 16.5ppg, 6.0apg, 35+mpg. All-star.

In his 3rd year, he was paired with Nate McMillan, another PG, and his scoring started to take off. One interesting note is that Hornacek hasn’t been playing Frank alongside another PG as many (including myself) has anticipated. The coach trusts and challenges him to run the offense - certainly not an easy feat with a lot of natural black holes on the roster.

Frank is getting enough minutes that he doesn’t really need D league reps at the moment to keep improving for now, all while adjusting to the NBA. I could see him being asked to be more selfish in the summer league and be more aggressive with his shot.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoga01.html

nixluva wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/espnstatsinfo/status/930222499509411840

Now that's a very impressive statistic! Early days, obviously, but at 19 and 22 and with only a dozen games together this hints at a decade of playoffs potential partnership.

Juliano wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/espnstatsinfo/status/930222499509411840

Now that's a very impressive statistic! Early days, obviously, but at 19 and 22 and with only a dozen games together this hints at a decade of playoffs potential partnership.

By comparison:
http://www.82games.com/1718/17DAL2.HTM
Mavs are barely better offsively with DS on the floor. When he's on their defense takes a huge hit.

Just to throw a 3rd in there here's Monk's:
http://www.82games.com/1718/17CHA5.HTM
Monk's #s are terrible.

fishmike wrote:

Juliano wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/espnstatsinfo/status/930222499509411840

Now that's a very impressive statistic! Early days, obviously, but at 19 and 22 and with only a dozen games together this hints at a decade of playoffs potential partnership.

http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.

By comparison:
http://www.82games.com/1718/17DAL2.HTM
Mavs are barely better offsively with DS on the floor. When he's on their defense takes a huge hit.

Just to throw a 3rd in there here's Monk's:
http://www.82games.com/1718/17CHA5.HTM
Monk's #s are terrible.

no fair. you're using facts!

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Juliano wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/espnstatsinfo/status/930222499509411840

Now that's a very impressive statistic! Early days, obviously, but at 19 and 22 and with only a dozen games together this hints at a decade of playoffs potential partnership.

http://www.82games.com/1718/17NYK3.HTMFrank's positive impact is not imaginary. Look at all his on/off stats. The Knicks are better on both sides of the ball measurably with Frank on the floor. Look at them, its very impressive.

By comparison:
http://www.82games.com/1718/17DAL2.HTM
Mavs are barely better offsively with DS on the floor. When he's on their defense takes a huge hit.

Just to throw a 3rd in there here's Monk's:
http://www.82games.com/1718/17CHA5.HTM
Monk's #s are terrible.

no fair. you're using facts!

With this type of acute fact gathering, Dotson, was the better pick and he should be playinh over everybody. The kid stood up for himself. His length is a problem for opposing players but let's not Rose it up roo much. He got the ball taken away from him with game tied late in the 4th. And was invisible on offense. We need to stay constructive when evaluating. Let's not start making him out to be the next Gerian Grant. Anyine remember all the blow hards with that kid?

Juliano wrote:Mitchell is doing fine also, both in raw numbers and team efficiency. If there is a PG the Knicks might regret drafting Frank instead, it is him.

http://www.82games.com/1718/17UTA5.HTM