GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:"Make america great" and these clowns bring a confederate flag? They lost the civil war. Seems like many have not gotten over that.
Nazis, they lost their war. Nazi's divided their people against each other.
Trump is too blind by his own greed and self importance to see what he is doing. He is an ignorant man absorbed in himself.
Trump is a child.

The Civil War NEVER ended for the South. People don't realize that they never gave up their beliefs and immediately went to work trying to re-establish a system as close to Slavery as they could get. The Black Codes and Jim Crow. The Terrorism of the KKK and RedShirts. Civil war ended in 1865 but it took another 100 years to actually enact laws to begin to try and protect the Civil Rights of ALL Americans.

So just so we're clear the beliefs of White Supremacists NEVER ceased in this country. It's literally been one continuous stream from day one up to this day.

They came from all over the country to attend this rally. This isn't a strictly southern movement. There was a story about the president of a college republican club from Washington State who was spotted attending the rally.

It used to be about flexing their muscles, but its more than that now. They want power, and they believe they have someone in the White House who will help them get it.

It does look as if Republicans and Democrats will work together to investigate white supremacist groups as home grown terrorists following the tragedy in Charlottesville.

I am so freaking angry today I can barely speak or function. This should never have happened. How is it even possible for a hate group to show up for a rally with assault weapons and riot gear and claim freedom of speech. It was clear from the beginning that there would be violence.

nixluva wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:"Make america great" and these clowns bring a confederate flag? They lost the civil war. Seems like many have not gotten over that.
Nazis, they lost their war. Nazi's divided their people against each other.
Trump is too blind by his own greed and self importance to see what he is doing. He is an ignorant man absorbed in himself.
Trump is a child.

The Civil War NEVER ended for the South. People don't realize that they never gave up their beliefs and immediately went to work trying to re-establish a system as close to Slavery as they could get. The Black Codes and Jim Crow. The Terrorism of the KKK and RedShirts. Civil war ended in 1865 but it took another 100 years to actually enact laws to begin to try and protect the Civil Rights of ALL Americans.

So just so we're clear the beliefs of White Supremacists NEVER ceased in this country. It's literally been one continuous stream from day one up to this day.

They came from all over the country to attend this rally. This isn't a strictly southern movement. There was a story about the president of a college republican club from Washington State who was spotted attending the rally.

It used to be about flexing their muscles, but its more than that now. They want power, and they believe they have someone in the White House who will help them get it.

Of Course this is a disease that isn't contained in the South anymore. I'm just referencing where it started and has been festering for a very long time and it's not just in this country either. This is a worldwide movement of hate.

Southern States have been moving to remove the Confederate Flag from public buildings. Momentum is growing in favor or it. The argument against is a weak one as clearly the 'battle flag' is a symbol of hate and not history. Or rather, while the flag is historical, the people that wave it do so from hate so the historical argument is weak as the flag is used to promote hate and and not history.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I dont believe its hyperbole to describe those white power protesters as being fascists. The only way you stop fascists is to stand up to them. No other way. A couple of jokes on SNL wont do it.

Not so long ago these extremists would have been considered the fringe, Trump is trying to make them, and their shared views, mainstream.

You dont keep a book of Hitler's speeches by your nightstand if you plan on governing like Lincoln, or even Reagan.

I don't want to come off sounding high and moral and I completely understand where you guys are coming from. But I am with Welpee in this. The Constitution gives him the right to talk about his hateful filth in public and he should be permitted to do so. Otherwise we can't claim we have Free speech when it suits us and not observe it when it doesn't. Trump election is uniquely uncovering some aspects of the system a lot of people are uncomfortable with-

Not for nothing because this is waaay too important not to get right.

He stood in front of a microphone in public, and the government did not try to stop him, or as far as we know tried to punish him for it or use its powers to try to coerce him not to do it again.

His constitutional rights were in no way violated.

People think of protesters shouting a down the speaker, or boycotting a TV network because of an on air personality as a violation of freedom of speech, but it is not, period.

Now whether you think citizens have some kind of extra-lawful obligation as Americans to stand there quietly and let him speak is another matter, though the counter argument that is they are exercising their 'free speech' in protesting since he chose to speak in public.

Know whether he deserves some kind of state-provided/paid for protection from protesters approaching his microphone which is what occurred, that's another issue I don't have any easy answers for.

But what happened yesterday was not a violation of his constitutional rights. It was a 'violation' of what way too many people incorrectly think of as their right to "free speech."

I never said his rights were violated.

Just trying to find common ground here. I responded to "The Constitution gives him the right to talk about his hateful filth in public and he should be permitted to do so."

It does and he was permitted and he did is all I'm saying.

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:The issue that I think you all are missing is the pattern of violence that has developed. These rallies attract groups of people whose agenda is to destabilize the rally and create chaos and violence. That is not free speech, it is a danger to the public and to law enforcement groups trying to maintain order.

In my opinion, any protester who has any form of weapon or engages in any aggressive act should be immediately arrested. Anyone who throws anything or acts aggressively in any way should be removed immediately and arrested.

So just to be clear, your issue is with the counter-protesters?

No. I have so many issues with this entire situation I can't even vocalize them. My statement is about preventing folks whose entire purpose is to destabilize any rally and create chaos resulting in violence. It is a general statement not specific to this catastrophe. Anyone and everyone brandishing weapons, throwing anything, inciting violence, creating chaos should be singled out and removed regardless of affiliation.

And to answer your question that your are alluding to - White Supremacist hate groups should not be granted permits for rallies to promote their brand of hate. They should be labeled as terrorists and denied all constitutional rights of assembly

So many have been killed by those brandishing these symbols that they should have a special prohibition rather than be protected by Freedom of Expression.

nixluva wrote:

Welpee wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I think perhaps you forget just what he stands for! I'm 52 my mother, father and both grandmothers are all alive. Guys like this dude used to TERRORIZE my parents and grandparents. I was chased as a boy by a group of guys like this when I was visiting my Grandparents in North Carolina. Thank God they didn't catch me!!! I don't believe in violence but I can FULLY understand how anger at White Supremacists can make people lose it. F those guys!

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/d_so_raw/status/896744550789722112

Rookie wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Welpee wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I think perhaps you forget just what he stands for! I'm 52 my mother, father and both grandmothers are all alive. Guys like this dude used to TERRORIZE my parents and grandparents. I was chased as a boy by a group of guys like this when I was visiting my Grandparents in North Carolina. Thank God they didn't catch me!!! I don't believe in violence but I can FULLY understand how anger at White Supremacists can make people lose it. F those guys!

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/d_so_raw/status/896744550789722112

I am not disagreeing with you, but I am also not sure if you grew up in NYC in the 70's and 80's like I did. You are describing the same situation except it was groups of black kids chasing, robbing and beating white kids. They were ugly and scary times to be sure. It really is starting to feel as if we are regressing back to uglier days.

My ancestors were dragged here in 1758 on my Father's side. My family is originally from South and North Carolina, so visiting relatives was routine. My grandfather moved to NY in 1935 to try and escape the Racist South. I was born in Brooklyn 1965 and grew up in Queens until I moved to Amityville, Long Island in 1995. I worked in Manhattan continually since 1982 until I left New York for Georgia in 2004. I don't know if you realize that whatever issues you may have experienced PALES in comparison to the amount of White Violence and Systemic Racism against Blacks and Hispanics.

I'm sure you have a story to tell of your personal experiences with Blacks attacking Whites but in the USA broadly Racial Oppression and Attacks have been greatly one sided. This is not some sick contest of wrongs committed but you don't really want to compare histories in this regard cuz they're not even close.

nixluva wrote:How should Gays, Blacks, Jews and other Minorities feel when they see this?

My starting point is to never assume I have any good idea how they feel and to never tell them how they should feel.

Knickoftime wrote:

nixluva wrote:How should Gays, Blacks, Jews and other Minorities feel when they see this?

My starting point is to never assume I have any good idea how they feel and to never tell them how they should feel.

Knickoftime wrote:

Rookie wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Rookie wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Welpee wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Good stuff:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I don't know. No matter how I feel about somebody's position I don't like seeing this.

I think perhaps you forget just what he stands for! I'm 52 my mother, father and both grandmothers are all alive. Guys like this dude used to TERRORIZE my parents and grandparents. I was chased as a boy by a group of guys like this when I was visiting my Grandparents in North Carolina. Thank God they didn't catch me!!! I don't believe in violence but I can FULLY understand how anger at White Supremacists can make people lose it. F those guys!

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/d_so_raw/status/896744550789722112

I am not disagreeing with you, but I am also not sure if you grew up in NYC in the 70's and 80's like I did. You are describing the same situation except it was groups of black kids chasing, robbing and beating white kids. They were ugly and scary times to be sure. It really is starting to feel as if we are regressing back to uglier days.

My ancestors were dragged here in 1758 on my Father's side. My family is originally from South and North Carolina, so visiting relatives was routine. My grandfather moved to NY in 1935 to try and escape the Racist South. I was born in Brooklyn 1965 and grew up in Queens until I moved to Amityville, Long Island in 1995. I worked in Manhattan continually since 1982 until I left New York for Georgia in 2004. I don't know if you realize that whatever issues you may have experienced PALES in comparison to the amount of White Violence and Systemic Racism against Blacks and Hispanics.

I'm sure you have a story to tell of your personal experiences with Blacks attacking Whites but in the USA broadly Racial Oppression and Attacks have been greatly one sided. This is not some sick contest of wrongs committed but you don't really want to compare histories in this regard cuz they're not even close.

No it isn't. But it did seem like we made progress since the 90's as a country and that we are now regressing back to those racially charged and divided times I experienced in the 70's and 80's. It saddens me. We need progress not division

Make no mistake, we've entered a new era. Obama's election was a catalyst to expose race resentment that laid under the surface for years. And the Internet is the perfect tool to recruit fringe personalities to fringe causes.

But that said, let's also not over-estimate the very unfortunate events of this past weekend. A few hundred people showed up. They're very real, they're very scary and there is more of them no doubt, but that sort of extremism is fringe, by definition.

In contrast, an estimated 500,000 people showed up in Washington to march the day after trump's inauguration, and another estimated 500k in other parts the world.

I think if you want to establish a timeline, you would need to start with the early roots of the Tea Party, Rich Fink and Charles Koch http://time.com/secret-origins-of-the-tea-party/

and then bursting onto the scene with it's rock stars Sarah Palin and Rand Paul http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-on-the-tea-party-20100928

Trump is another cartoonish figure much like Palin....ya'll do remember Joe Sixpack don't you?

This was the largest gathering of these people in 10 years? How many 2000? There are over 225 mm white people in this country. I think it speaks volumes how many people are in "cahoots" with these people. They are mostly young lost souls--they have no definition of life. Its going to happen. This is just another chance to blame"white person" or to group them in with "hate". The funny thing is on the other end--white person sticking up for for all and gave her life.

Every last person who voted for DT is NOT a racist or even close. You had a choice "Hillary Clinton" a proven bull **** artist who had more baggage than a mobster or Donald Trump who wanted to work hard and provide a better path economically shore up the borders and reduce taxes. That was the choice. She lost because she didnt even think it was important to go to some of these states? She was as obnoxious and arrogant as her followers. And whether DT is or is not a good President--Im sure most people are happy to shove it up the arse of many of these arrogant bastards at the very least. Do I think DT is some kind of white supremacist? I dont see anything in his life that he had any attacks against Jews Chinese Black Hispanic etc.. Many Hispanics coming from Mexico are just here to take advantage of loopholes in our system--its their fault for coming in illegally--no one else. The biggest joke is that a majority of these uppity people are the worst type of racist--the ones who talk behind the back. My opinion./