smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

the one where Melo averaged 30points and 10 boards for the month of April but had no impact on the game? That month?

Yep- thank goodness we were able to overcome the detrimental effects of melo's 30pts and 10rebs to win all those games!

This is the biggest problem with a lot of the hardcore Melo supporters. You don't see any shades of gray. TKF simply disagreed with the claim that Melo carried the team to 54 wins. And you took that to mean he "had no impact at all on the game."

His posts always insist that Melo has no positive impact on the game ever (that's my main issue with them, because its a daft position, that I don't think even he truly believes)- I don't think he has or will ever acknowledge that he sometimes has had a positive impact. (he came close to it yesterday, though!)

actually they don't.. just not the impact you guys suggest... but when confronted with why he doesn't do well in the playoffs, you then go to, YOU hate melo, he has no help, he doesn't have lebron, look at what KG did, look at what dirk did( forgetting that both guys have rings), he needs AI, he needs billups..

and on top of all his flaws, he is worth 29 mil because he drags his teams to 54 wins all by himself.. but when they lose it is because he has guys like JR and tyson chandler.. who BTW has a ring starting at center..

Go figure..

fishmike wrote:TFK... Im not complaining about anything. Just calling it like I see it. If you cant acknowledge the Melo had a great year last year and while guys were coming and going left and right he was the motor that drove the car to 50+ wins you are utterly and totally lost and blind. I remember when the Knicks were playing .300 ball, Isiah was being run out of town and Marbury was getting booed every play and Holfresh thread after thread would sit here and write how good Isiah and Marbs were, great players, will turn it around etc... it was lunacy. Your the exact same except the other way. Open your eyes dude. Melo has holes in his game but he's a top 10 player.

Yea.. it was hot streaks by Kidd and Kurt Thomas that won the 50+, not the guy who was scoring 30 a night, cause anyone can do that. Just give Tim Thomas 30 shots a game and he wins a scoring title also. Thank god for you Tyson laid down like a girl against Hibbert and JR missed every shot because if they play like anything besides total garbage Knicks are playing the Heat in the ECF and that would have been impossible to stomach for you. Get over it dude. Time to move on.

Melo's not getting traded for junk so MSG can be in the lottery for another 10 years. Its not happening. Look for other options. Let go. Its time. Hugs.

You gotta let go of your Melo hate. The trade is over. Its not your fault TFK. Its not...

fish, I am different. I don't sit on the fence, and I am not going to do it now. this is simple. You can't call the knicks contenders, feel they should have beat the pacers, or feel they are built to beat the heat if you don't think the TEAM is good... The knicks had a career year from JR smith, FACT... jason kidd got off to a great start, they got some surprise contributions from sheed, and the team got off to a good start shooting threes.. All of this played a part in the team winning 54 games... You and others want to force down my throat that the only reason they won 54 games is because of carmelo.. well ok, if you take that stance then be willing to accept that the only reason they failed in the playoffs was because of his poor play for the majority of the series...

YOU CAN'T TIE ALL SUCCESS TO ONE PLAYER AND ALL FAILURES TO HIS TEAMATES!

Open your eyes dude. Melo has holes in his game but he's a top 10 player.

well fish, is it just my eyes? ESPN has him ranked 15....

Thank god for you Tyson laid down like a girl against Hibbert and JR missed every shot because if they play like anything besides total garbage Knicks are playing the Heat in the ECF and that would have been impossible to stomach for you. Get over it dude. Time to move on.

Fish carmelo got owned by paul george.. look at the stats, when george guarded him, he shot 32%... GAME, SET, MATCH!!! He is the reason the knicks lost, can't put this on JR and tyson, because remember, carmelo is the REASON we won 54 games.. should I refer you to your own post fish? And for the record, TYSON has a ring, he somehow knows how to win... but again, he was playing along a real "G" in Dallas....LOL

Melo's not getting traded for junk so MSG can be in the lottery for another 10 years. Its not happening. Look for other options. Let go. Its time. Hugs.

Actually I don't want a trade, I want him to opt out and go away.. that would be great for me...

I honestly with all my heart hopes he sours on NY this year, and kobe talks him into coming to the lakers where they can fight each other over the next few years for shots and win 46 games in the west, with another first round elimination...... that would be a win-win for me...

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

the one where Melo averaged 30points and 10 boards for the month of April but had no impact on the game? That month?

Yep- thank goodness we were able to overcome the detrimental effects of melo's 30pts and 10rebs to win all those games!

This is the biggest problem with a lot of the hardcore Melo supporters. You don't see any shades of gray. TKF simply disagreed with the claim that Melo carried the team to 54 wins. And you took that to mean he "had no impact at all on the game."

exactly... one post completely changed my post to melo did nothing to help the team.. as I said, dealing with melo supporters is an exercise in futility... they deal in absolutes.... he is either god.. or nothing it seems.

Then do it- say and acknowledge that Melo's play helped get us that record! I just want to see if you can physically do it! Not because I'm a huge Melo fan, just out of curiosity! It will be a historic moment for the UltimateKnick boards!

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

the one where Melo averaged 30points and 10 boards for the month of April but had no impact on the game? That month?

Yep- thank goodness we were able to overcome the detrimental effects of melo's 30pts and 10rebs to win all those games!

This is the biggest problem with a lot of the hardcore Melo supporters. You don't see any shades of gray. TKF simply disagreed with the claim that Melo carried the team to 54 wins. And you took that to mean he "had no impact at all on the game."

exactly... one post completely changed my post to melo did nothing to help the team.. as I said, dealing with melo supporters is an exercise in futility... they deal in absolutes.... he is either god.. or nothing it seems.

Then do it- say and acknowledge that Melo's play helped get us that record! I just want to see if you can physically do it! Not because I'm a huge Melo fan, just out of curiosity! It will be a historic moment for the UltimateKnick boards!

why bother? If I don't agree he is GOD, what does it matter...

for me it is simple. I want the guy gone.. he is a bum, and he wants 29 mil.. LOL.. if you can't see that extending him will ruin the knicks long term, then really there is nothing more to discuss..

I don't want to extend him to $30 mil a year- we're both agreed that that is the road to ruin!

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

the one where Melo averaged 30points and 10 boards for the month of April but had no impact on the game? That month?

ok fish, I know you are better than this..... but I will play along.. you are right... without carmelo the knicks are 0-82

But I also think Melo had a great year last year and while he wasnt the best player in the league last year he was close to being an MVP because the Knicks are utter garbage without him dropping 30 a night.

Yea... they would go 0-82. And Ill play too dude... if they traded him for Gallo and Will Chandler ad picks they would go 82-0. However they would lose in the first round because Gallo cant stay on the court. So whoop de do. See? I can play too.

I dont need to you play. But maybe you should watch some games before judging his impact? Because its pretty obvious you dont, or maybe you watch and just dont see. I dont know.

Your posting is nothing better than that tool who posted how Melo is a natural leader and everyone can die if they dont recognize his greatness. 0-82 indeed. If you going pound us away with this constant drivel at least make it witty or entertaining. At this point you and Bonn post like and out of office response from an email... every new post just says they same thing. Yawn dude.

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

the one where Melo averaged 30points and 10 boards for the month of April but had no impact on the game? That month?

Yep- thank goodness we were able to overcome the detrimental effects of melo's 30pts and 10rebs to win all those games!

This is the biggest problem with a lot of the hardcore Melo supporters. You don't see any shades of gray. TKF simply disagreed with the claim that Melo carried the team to 54 wins. And you took that to mean he "had no impact at all on the game."

exactly... one post completely changed my post to melo did nothing to help the team.. as I said, dealing with melo supporters is an exercise in futility... they deal in absolutes.... he is either god.. or nothing it seems.

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

Yes Kidd played well for 25 games and JR had his best year, but he is still JR and in the mist of a 82 game schedule where we were among the most injury plaqued teams in the league, Melo was still the driving force behind the success. The team was successful early on because they found a formula that worked which was a supporting cast that perfectly suited Melo. Guys able to knock down open shots and defend around him. That doesn't happen without him playing at a superstar level.

ok, so what you are saying is they stopped knocking down shots because he didn't play at that level in the playoffs right? well there you go..and this has been the story with him for the past 13 years.. even more reasons why we should shed this dog, quick....

Couldn't be more wrong...as i stated, injuries played a huge part, Melo included. I have no problem with you not believing he is a top 10 player, superstar whatever, but you are incapable of giving him credit where it is due and recognizing how good he really is. At minimum he is an all-star, one of the best scorers in the league, and a mvp candidate. Anything less is not realistic for a knowledgable basketball person to suggest.

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

Yes Kidd played well for 25 games and JR had his best year, but he is still JR and in the mist of a 82 game schedule where we were among the most injury plaqued teams in the league, Melo was still the driving force behind the success. The team was successful early on because they found a formula that worked which was a supporting cast that perfectly suited Melo. Guys able to knock down open shots and defend around him. That doesn't happen without him playing at a superstar level.

ok, so what you are saying is they stopped knocking down shots because he didn't play at that level in the playoffs right? well there you go..and this has been the story with him for the past 13 years.. even more reasons why we should shed this dog, quick....

Couldn't be more wrong...as i stated, injuries played a huge part, Melo included.

ok, so more excuses.. so basically everything fell apart because carmelo was injured? is that why he shot the ball even more?

So the knicks lost because guys couldn't hit shots.. guys couldn't hit shots because carmelo no longer was playing like the Greatest player in the world, and since that happened, jason kidd, JR smith and everyone else just fell apart, carmelo was no longer playing like the greatest player in the world because he was injured?

ok, got it... smh

should I just copy and paste this excuse for this year as well?

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

Yes Kidd played well for 25 games and JR had his best year, but he is still JR and in the mist of a 82 game schedule where we were among the most injury plaqued teams in the league, Melo was still the driving force behind the success. The team was successful early on because they found a formula that worked which was a supporting cast that perfectly suited Melo. Guys able to knock down open shots and defend around him. That doesn't happen without him playing at a superstar level.

ok, so what you are saying is they stopped knocking down shots because he didn't play at that level in the playoffs right? well there you go..and this has been the story with him for the past 13 years.. even more reasons why we should shed this dog, quick....

Couldn't be more wrong...as i stated, injuries played a huge part, Melo included. I have no problem with you not believing he is a top 10 player, superstar whatever, but you are incapable of giving him credit where it is due and recognizing how good he really is. At minimum he is an all-star, one of the best scorers in the league, and a mvp candidate. Anything less is not realistic for a knowledgable basketball person to suggest.

give him credit for what? what did we accomplish? that is my first question

An allstar? well you don't need my approval for that, he is an all star.. so what

An MVP candidate? so were 13 other guys... but lets be real, he was as closer to the guy who finished last than he was to lebron or durant... but for shyts and gigles he received one first place vote.. new year, he is not longer an MVP candidate at this point.. lets move on.. next

One of the best scorers in the league? Ok that distinction can be given to quite a few players, but I will let you have that..

now with all of that said, I really am not impressed.. because in the end, that gets us no closer to where we want to be, and for 20+ mil I find that a terrible bargain...

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

the one where Melo averaged 30points and 10 boards for the month of April but had no impact on the game? That month?

ok fish, I know you are better than this..... but I will play along.. you are right... without carmelo the knicks are 0-82

better than what? I hated the trade. I dont think Melo's game is good enough to grind out wins in the NBA playoffs. I think Melo shoots too much. I think Melo's career is an image of inconsistancy. I think Melo needs more talent that other 'stars' if he's going to compete fot a title. Dont call me a homer.

But I also think Melo had a great year last year and while he wasnt the best player in the league last year he was close to being an MVP because the Knicks are utter garbage without him dropping 30 a night.

Yea... they would go 0-82. And Ill play too dude... if they traded him for Gallo and Will Chandler ad picks they would go 82-0. However they would lose in the first round because Gallo cant stay on the court. So whoop de do. See? I can play too.

I dont need to you play. But maybe you should watch some games before judging his impact? Because its pretty obvious you dont, or maybe you watch and just dont see. I dont know.

Your posting is nothing better than that tool who posted how Melo is a natural leader and everyone can die if they dont recognize his greatness. 0-82 indeed. If you going pound us away with this constant drivel at least make it witty or entertaining. At this point you and Bonn post like and out of office response from an email... every new post just says they same thing. Yawn dude.

you are way too emotional man... it is simple fish, and I hope or thought you were better than that.. but I guess I am wrong.. but I will just post what you wrote..

I dont think Melo's game is good enough to grind out wins in the NBA playoffs. I think Melo shoots too much. I think Melo's career is an image of inconsistancy. I think Melo needs more talent that other 'stars' if he's going to compete fot a title.

ok fish, then we can stop right there.. with all of that said.. by you.. why would you want to give him 29 mil a year? It is already proven that you can field a playoff team that will accomplish the same thing without having to do that... but give yourself youth, flexibility and depth..... much easier to improve on that..

so what is it? does carmelo need more talent? does he need another star? which is it... because I can tell you that there are quite a few players in this league who make a lot less but will bring a more diverse game to the knicks that also need a star to win... so I ask, do you want to play carmelo 29 mil?

if you just want to argue that you think he is top 10.. well I won't bother, I agree with ESPN here...He isn't, and I have stated why..

Im not emotional at all. I havent gotten emotional about the Knicks since since I found out they traded Milos Vujacek.

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

So you're saying Melo had nothing to do with those 54 wins (despite taking all those inefficient shots), it was JR's doing. So you genuinely believe that we won 54 game INSPITE of Melo?

It was weird how you disappeared during that win streak at the end of the season...

the one where Melo averaged 30points and 10 boards for the month of April but had no impact on the game? That month?

ok fish, I know you are better than this..... but I will play along.. you are right... without carmelo the knicks are 0-82

better than what? I hated the trade. I dont think Melo's game is good enough to grind out wins in the NBA playoffs. I think Melo shoots too much. I think Melo's career is an image of inconsistancy. I think Melo needs more talent that other 'stars' if he's going to compete fot a title. Dont call me a homer.

But I also think Melo had a great year last year and while he wasnt the best player in the league last year he was close to being an MVP because the Knicks are utter garbage without him dropping 30 a night.

Yea... they would go 0-82. And Ill play too dude... if they traded him for Gallo and Will Chandler ad picks they would go 82-0. However they would lose in the first round because Gallo cant stay on the court. So whoop de do. See? I can play too.

I dont need to you play. But maybe you should watch some games before judging his impact? Because its pretty obvious you dont, or maybe you watch and just dont see. I dont know.

Your posting is nothing better than that tool who posted how Melo is a natural leader and everyone can die if they dont recognize his greatness. 0-82 indeed. If you going pound us away with this constant drivel at least make it witty or entertaining. At this point you and Bonn post like and out of office response from an email... every new post just says they same thing. Yawn dude.

you are way too emotional man... it is simple fish, and I hope or thought you were better than that.. but I guess I am wrong.. but I will just post what you wrote..

I dont think Melo's game is good enough to grind out wins in the NBA playoffs. I think Melo shoots too much. I think Melo's career is an image of inconsistancy. I think Melo needs more talent that other 'stars' if he's going to compete fot a title.

ok fish, then we can stop right there.. with all of that said.. by you.. why would you want to give him 29 mil a year? It is already proven that you can field a playoff team that will accomplish the same thing without having to do that... but give yourself youth, flexibility and depth..... much easier to improve on that..

so what is it? does carmelo need more talent? does he need another star? which is it... because I can tell you that there are quite a few players in this league who make a lot less but will bring a more diverse game to the knicks that also need a star to win... so I ask, do you want to play carmelo 29 mil?

if you just want to argue that you think he is top 10.. well I won't bother, I agree with ESPN here...He isn't, and I have stated why..

weird.. I didnt realize Melo was making $29mm. Why not just make it $50mm to enhance your arguement? Sounds better.

Im not emotional at all. I havent gotten emotional about the Knicks since since I found out they traded Milos Vujacek.

do the math fish, if he resigns 5 years 130 mil.. in his last year fish he will make 29 mil...

tell me, what is the purpose of this type of argument you have yet given any compelling evidence as to why we should not only resign him, but what makes him top 10.. you yourself have given reasons to suggest that he isn't.