knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Reason is because it was personal, not business

+10000000000000000000

and you know this how...because it was in the papers? Unless you heard it from Dolan or, your a mind reader, you don't know what your talking about. Like I said before, lots of telepaths posting here.

because people are judge on there past not there future (in most cases) they said they would match and they had every intentions on doing that until it became personal...

My agent tells me that the knicks are big on me and I believe they'll match anything. my agent calls the rockets and tells them, hey if your serious about retaining my client, you may have to up the $ cause your wasting your ink with that contract thats going to be match in the blink of an eye, I figure if you add a few more $ you will atleast have them 2nd guessing themselves..

The rockets lose nothing cause they can waive him in the 3rd year, trade him, or if he plays upto the potential, they have a franchise player..

it was a business move on the rockets part, and a personal decision on the knicks part..

why would the knicks commit to 3 pgs before committing to lin ?

Because they weren't going cost close to 50 mil dollars for a guy who broke down after 25 games...

I don't know about that..The guy goes from not playing at all to playing close to 40 mins 5 times a wk..with almost no rest in between time, no adjustment period..

MDA PGs during his knick tenure where breaking down after 3/4 months regardless..

fields was the only player to play 66 games on the knicks roster last season..

57.85 mil in year 3, no sign and trades, any trade has to be dollar for dollar so no relief from year three of that contract unless the knicks waive Lin and stretch the cost out over several years. Those numbers and the limited options the Knicks had after commiting to that contract are why it was ummatchable from a business prospective. I assume the commitment to 3 point guards includes Pablo's 1 year deal at 488,000. I would just take that right out of your argument. The Knicks got Pablo because they wanted him and he cost them nothing. Kidd was obtained to mentor Lin and both his and Felton's contracts are much more reasonable in my opinion.

did you ever think Joe johnson would be traded with that contract..EVERY CONTRACT in the NBA is tradable

I'm not surprised that the Nyets traded for JJ. They were the only ones who would. That was a desperate move.

tkf wrote:

infinitilov100 wrote:

tkf wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.

Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).

According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.

Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.

His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.

Your confusing what players are actually worth, with what players actually seem to get- in a world where Jameer Nelson can stink it up and still sign a 3 year deal paying $8mil per year, trust me $4mil for Felton is a bargain! You won't get a cheaper starting caliber point guard for that amount. Pretty much the same as our old favourite Chris Duhon!

I am not a bit Felton fan but that contract was far from over paying.

Overpaying per year? Maybe slightly - I think there are guys on the league min who can give close to what he does. But it's definitely overpaying in total pay - $18 mil is a ton of money to throw at a guy who is average to below average in all phases of the game.

That is arguable (below average). People were crying when he left and stating how great he was - did he get this bad in one year?

Who in the league is at his level making less? Is Jameer Nelson that good?

Was Lin worth 25 million + tax for a guy who played 25 games last year and had a miserable shooting pct when it counted? Who Miami exposed as a ...

I would have paid for Lin and wanted him back but it aint my money.

Felton at 4 per is a good deal. I think he will be good for team chemistry, plays defense and can pass the ball. He just needs to not shoot.

I think the point regarding letting Lin walk is the timing being incredibly bad. I mean we are pretty close to contending for a championship. To get past Miami and then OKC/LA, you are going to need all you can to have a chance. Letting Lin walk in this context makes no sense, especially since it is next to impossible to add talent with the new CBA when you are over the salary cap. Keeping Lin could have been the difference. You pay that tax and go all out. 90% probably won't cut it.

I think and up and coming player like Lin can make the difference and it is worth the risk. Getting a bunch of guys, albeit very good players still, who are near retirement, is probably not in itself, going to put us over the hump, not now anyways. We are one injury away from a nightmare of a season. Consider that and consider Stats health the last two years, not to mention Melo's last year.

yea, I thought we were going all in? why are we worrying about year 3? if this team doesn't get it done this year or next year, time to blow it up anyway.. start shipping out contracts after year 2....

We already saw how Lin played against Miami last season. Lin's eight-turnover performance against the Miami Heat, in which he shot 1-for-11 proves a point. To get past Miami and OKC/LA we need the current group of guys that we now have and not Lin's turnovers. A turnover machine like Lin could have been a huge risk especially come playoffs. I strongly believe that letting Lin go made a lot of sense and was the best thing to do. Lin fans can now watch him play in Houston and please move on with him. We like the old guys as the Lin and Dolan cry babies like call it and I'm looking forward to watching them play defense throughout the season. These defensive players will give us a much better chance of getting over the hump than Lin.

Hello? 30 NBA teams will be one injury away from a nightmare of a season, not just the NY Knicks!

THAT IS absolutely ridiculous... you know that right? so tell me what does it prove?

and while you are at it, tell me what miami blowing us out 3 of the 4 games proves as well... no excuses...

and oh, in that infamous miami game.. carmelo wasn't great either.. he shot 7-20 while Baron davis went 0-7

you guys are hilarious hanging onto one game.. yet you turn around and say, 25 games is not a big enough sample.... LOL.. wow

We do not need Lin. Cry babies can watch him in Houston turn the ball over a hundred million times.

gunsnewing wrote:So Lin went 1-11 against miami. How many times did melo do that last year. He was 0-11 one game prob against the Bobcats

Can't beat a dead horse. I'm glad that the Knicks were being smart and let Lin go. Better late than never.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:So Lin went 1-11 against miami. How many times did melo do that last year. He was 0-11 one game prob against the Bobcats

I will say this one last time - Lin shot very poorly against > .500 competition. You can harp on Miami if you choose to.

Melo shot 46 pct against > .500 competition while Lin shot 34 pct.

That does not mean that Lin can't learn to play better against these teams, he just has not done it yet.

Jeremy Lin: 2nd year player, possibly league average starting PG, possibly very good backup, $8.33M average salary. Role: POINT GUARD

Carmelo Anthony: One of the best scorers in the league, possibly one of the best of this era of the NBA, 7th highest paid player in the entire league at an average of 21.49M. ROLE: BUCKET GETTER/FRANCHISE PLAYER/SUPERSTAR

Why are we comparing these two players again?

This doesn't apply to you specifically mrKS and it's already been said in this thread but you can NOT use the small sample size argument to diminish the numbers Lin was putting up and then use 1 game in Miami to make any kind of point about his game.

One could then turn right around and use only his games against Dallas and the Lakers to project him as the best thing since sliced bread.

I am not sure where you are going with your statements/arguments.

I never compared Lin to Melo - the Melo-haters do that. Its an alarmingly silly comparison. The Dallas and Laker games were road games for those teams and they are/were both .400 road teams. Hardly stiff competition.

My point was that regardless of sample size, Lin has not proven that he can be successful against the good teams. He does look like he has the potential to be a good player.

The Miami game just showed other teams that if you trap him high, it gives him a lot of trouble. After that game, teams game planned for him differently.

Lin vs. > .500 competition he shot 45-125 which is 36.0 pct. >.500 team means that they have a greater than .500 record either at home if the game is in their building, or if the game was in NY, the team had a > .500 road record.

Came in mid thread so I could be wrong but I thought you compared Melo's shooting %age against +.500 teams and Lin's shooting %age against +.500 teams. Not really trying to argue with you or anything I just find it crazy in general when anyone (Melo hater/lover/whatever) compare the two. Maybe Knicks fans are uniquely crazy as I don't think any you'll find Lakers fans comparing Kobe's shooting #s to Ramon Sessions or Durant to Eric Maynor.

My point was that regardless of sample size, Lin has not proven that he can be successful against the good teams

I don't know what your definition of "prove" is or what your definition of "good team" is. How many games does it take for a player to "prove" something? The Lakers won their division and won 41 games for the 3rd best record in the West. Either way it's pointless to define what "proof" is and what a "good team" is as I'm sure everyone has different standards.

The fact is Lin only played 35 games for the Knicks. He only played more than 30 minutes for 20 games. I will agree that whatever conclusions people reached about Lin, good or bad, were based on not much.

I do find it kind of odd that there are people who seem to be glad to be rid of him. Is it arguing just for the sake of sticking it to annoying Lin nut huggers? I think most of us during Linsanity if asked if we wanted him back would've all said hell yeah why the F not? There's this weird revisionist history going on to villify the kid. Even when you say oh the Lakers and Mavs aren't exactly stiff competition, I'm sure you have to remember the beginning of the season when with our 2 superstars we LOST to:

The Lakers
Warriors
Bobcats
Raptors
Suns
Bucks
Cavs

The NBA is a man's league and every W is earned. If people are pooh poohing Linsanity because of the teams we played during that stretch then what do those same people have to say about us getting beaten by these crappy teams WITH Melo and Amare?? Where is the consistency? If it's such a cakewalk to beat the Mavs, Lakers how the hell did we lose to the Warriors, Bobcats, and Raptors? I have no idea whether Lin is the 2nd coming of Chris Paul(probably not), a decent backup (pretty likely) or a complete fluke who stumbled his way into the NBA (not likely) but if arguments are going to be made it would be nice if people were LOGICAL and CONSISTENT in making their points.

I mean the Knicks were not good by any stretch of the imagination last season. We had 2 decent stretches Linsanity and Melo playing out of his mind and yet somehow this board has become populated by people who enjoy ****ting on both of those guys.

So again not to target you specifically mrKnickShot but it just kills my will to keep reading these forums due to people just being illogical/inconsistent and the need to poop on Lin or Melo. Really we should all be pooping on Amare, Toney Douglas, and James Dolan for creating a culture where you can do something like sign Jerome James and Jared Jefferies to those horrible contracts, make the Eddy Curry move and still have a job.

I agree with most of what you said.

I compared the 2 in response the gunsnwings comment "So Lin went 1-11 against miami. How many times did melo do that last year. He was 0-11 one game prob against the Bobcats".

But I agree that the comparison is beyond silly.

Linsanity was the most exciting time I had as a knick fan in many many years, nobody can say that it wasn't. The issue is when posters dumbly state that players come back and kill Linsanity ignoring the drastic change in strength of schedule. MDA system which failed miserably was proven to work since we won during Linsanity. A cream puff schedule and context is often missed and/or intentionally ignored. Miami beat us 4-1 - but did they not do that against OKC?

There are definitely two sides that are extreme and they are both silly positions and its quite boring to have to stick to party lines on everything. Its kind of cool when one can think for themselves even though it might piss off both sides/everyone.

Melo and Lin for each of their stretches made it exciting to watch basketball. I really hope he sux for houston so we can feel less crappy about him leaving - as evil as that sounds.

The knicks were awful prior to Woody (outside of Linsanity). Who was to blame? EVERYONE!! And I have said this numerous times. Melo SUCKED! AMARE was even worse, and MDA? If he were driving down a road and there was a detour, he would just sit there until they finished construction.

infinitilov100 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Reason is because it was personal, not business

+10000000000000000000

and you know this how...because it was in the papers? Unless you heard it from Dolan or, your a mind reader, you don't know what your talking about. Like I said before, lots of telepaths posting here.

because people are judge on there past not there future (in most cases) they said they would match and they had every intentions on doing that until it became personal...

My agent tells me that the knicks are big on me and I believe they'll match anything. my agent calls the rockets and tells them, hey if your serious about retaining my client, you may have to up the $ cause your wasting your ink with that contract thats going to be match in the blink of an eye, I figure if you add a few more $ you will atleast have them 2nd guessing themselves..

The rockets lose nothing cause they can waive him in the 3rd year, trade him, or if he plays upto the potential, they have a franchise player..

it was a business move on the rockets part, and a personal decision on the knicks part..

why would the knicks commit to 3 pgs before committing to lin ?

Because they weren't going cost close to 50 mil dollars for a guy who broke down after 25 games...

I don't know about that..The guy goes from not playing at all to playing close to 40 mins 5 times a wk..with almost no rest in between time, no adjustment period..

MDA PGs during his knick tenure where breaking down after 3/4 months regardless..

fields was the only player to play 66 games on the knicks roster last season..

57.85 mil in year 3, no sign and trades, any trade has to be dollar for dollar so no relief from year three of that contract unless the knicks waive Lin and stretch the cost out over several years. Those numbers and the limited options the Knicks had after commiting to that contract are why it was ummatchable from a business prospective. I assume the commitment to 3 point guards includes Pablo's 1 year deal at 488,000. I would just take that right out of your argument. The Knicks got Pablo because they wanted him and he cost them nothing. Kidd was obtained to mentor Lin and both his and Felton's contracts are much more reasonable in my opinion.

did you ever think Joe johnson would be traded with that contract..EVERY CONTRACT in the NBA is tradable

I'm not surprised that the Nyets traded for JJ. They were the only ones who would. That was a desperate move.

NY fans are incredible.. LOL.. desperate? how we got carmelo was desperate, we were played by both the nets and the nuggets... Our very knicks tried hard to get joe johnson, I wonder what the perception of him would have been had he been in a knicks uniform.. I like JJ, I hate his contract, but I like him.. he would have been a much better fit with our young team and amare than pairing amare with the iso first round exit king...

Lin had great games, so did Melo.

knickscity wrote:to give one credit and not the other is downright stupid.

Lin had great games, so did Melo.

i don't think anyone doubts that neither had great games.. or at least shouldn't.. what some are doubting is impact... carmelo over 9 years is pretty much what you see.. a good streaky scorer... I can say his play has never inspired me, and his lack of leadership is troubling... lin for a moment gave hope for what could have been, he took a bunch of "role" players and a couple of starters and had them playing at a high level.... too bad we will never get to see it play out...

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:to give one credit and not the other is downright stupid.

Lin had great games, so did Melo.

i don't think anyone doubts that neither had great games.. or at least shouldn't.. what some are doubting is impact... carmelo over 9 years is pretty much what you see.. a good streaky scorer... I can say his play has never inspired me, and his lack of leadership is troubling... lin for a moment gave hope for what could have been, he took a bunch of "role" players and a couple of starters and had them playing at a high level.... too bad we will never get to see it play out...

I don't like Lin, the ball player, but he has talent, I won't deny that, but you can't do the same for other players in particularly Melo who did the same exact thing at a different point in the season.