iSergio wrote:I see pretty much the same complaints about Carmelo Anthony that I saw about Amar'e Stoudemire over the summer. That he's not a true MAX player, that he's nothing without Steve Nash, he's not a leader, he can't rebound and the worst of all that David Lee was the better player.

And like STAT, I would expect Melo to take his game to another level in New York.

Is Amare surrounded by scrubs? Seems to me the guys your looking to move for Melo are doing pretty freakin good. When Melo plays center and becomes a force on defense come back to me

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:I see pretty much the same complaints about Carmelo Anthony that I saw about Amar'e Stoudemire over the summer. That he's not a true MAX player, that he's nothing without Steve Nash, he's not a leader, he can't rebound and the worst of all that David Lee was the better player.

And like STAT, I would expect Melo to take his game to another level in New York.

who is saying that? Melo's talent isnt the problem. He's not what we need. We got 34 point and 15 board from the guys you want to move for Melo. Yet somehow Melo is going to make us so much better.

Is Amare surrounded by scrubs? Seems to me the guys your looking to move for Melo are doing pretty freakin good. When Melo plays center and becomes a force on defense come back to me

Two role players like Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler do not equal a SuperStar like Carmelo Anthony. This is not how basketball works. Just like David Lee and Al Harrington didn't equal Amar'e Stoudemire.

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:I see pretty much the same complaints about Carmelo Anthony that I saw about Amar'e Stoudemire over the summer. That he's not a true MAX player, that he's nothing without Steve Nash, he's not a leader, he can't rebound and the worst of all that David Lee was the better player.

And like STAT, I would expect Melo to take his game to another level in New York.

who is saying that? Melo's talent isnt the problem. He's not what we need. We got 34 point and 15 board from the guys you want to move for Melo. Yet somehow Melo is going to make us so much better.

Is Amare surrounded by scrubs? Seems to me the guys your looking to move for Melo are doing pretty freakin good. When Melo plays center and becomes a force on defense come back to me

Two role players like Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler do not equal a SuperStar like Carmelo Anthony. This is not how basketball works. Just like David Lee and Al Harrington didn't equal Amar'e Stoudemire.

how does BB work? please tell me. How did the Pistons with no stars beat a team with Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton and Karl Malone? Why didnt Pippen, Barkley and Hakeem win a title?

Again... the word superstar. Tell me again what he's done to deserve that title? Oh right.. he's going to elevate his game once he comes to NY like Amare.

Just for the record.. this is exactly how Amare played last year, for the whole 2nd half.

There are 5 guys and 1 ball.

If we were talking about Bogut, who fills a NEED then your right. Gallo + Chandler would be worth it.

Just to clarify, Melo isnt Jordon.

Basketball is about balance and roles.

Right, but I think you're underestimating Melo's value. Big time...

I think we'll have to see how these guys perform against teams that actually play defense. The young guys are playing well, but lets face it. They're not exactly playing against elite teams and this is where Melo earns his bucks.

He can score against anyone; can Landry, Gallo and Will do the same? I love this guys, but I have major doubts. Melo knows how to react against double-triple teams, is playoff tested and carries that superstar tag (which we know determines calls in crunch time).

This to me, seems like a team packed with enough role players to have a good regluar season. But come playoff time, talent generally wins and stars make a difference. Detroit was a one-in-a-million run, based on solid defense- no comparison to this squad at all...

gr33d wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:

fishmike wrote:

iSergio wrote:I see pretty much the same complaints about Carmelo Anthony that I saw about Amar'e Stoudemire over the summer. That he's not a true MAX player, that he's nothing without Steve Nash, he's not a leader, he can't rebound and the worst of all that David Lee was the better player.

And like STAT, I would expect Melo to take his game to another level in New York.

who is saying that? Melo's talent isnt the problem. He's not what we need. We got 34 point and 15 board from the guys you want to move for Melo. Yet somehow Melo is going to make us so much better.

Is Amare surrounded by scrubs? Seems to me the guys your looking to move for Melo are doing pretty freakin good. When Melo plays center and becomes a force on defense come back to me

Two role players like Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler do not equal a SuperStar like Carmelo Anthony. This is not how basketball works. Just like David Lee and Al Harrington didn't equal Amar'e Stoudemire.

how does BB work? please tell me. How did the Pistons with no stars beat a team with Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton and Karl Malone? Why didnt Pippen, Barkley and Hakeem win a title?

Again... the word superstar. Tell me again what he's done to deserve that title? Oh right.. he's going to elevate his game once he comes to NY like Amare.

Just for the record.. this is exactly how Amare played last year, for the whole 2nd half.

There are 5 guys and 1 ball.

If we were talking about Bogut, who fills a NEED then your right. Gallo + Chandler would be worth it.

Just to clarify, Melo isnt Jordon.

Basketball is about balance and roles.

Right, but I think you're underestimating Melo's value. Big time...

I think we'll have to see how these guys perform against teams that actually play defense. The young guys are playing well, but lets face it. They're not exactly playing against elite teams and this is where Melo earns his bucks.

He can score against anyone; can Landry, Gallo and Will do the same? I love this guys, but I have major doubts. Melo knows how to react against double-triple teams, is playoff tested and carries that superstar tag (which we know determines calls in crunch time).

This to me, seems like a team packed with enough role players to have a good regluar season. But come playoff time, talent generally wins and stars make a difference. Detroit was a one-in-a-million run, based on solid defense- no comparison to this squad at all...

And TMS... that reply from thejerk is better than I have heard from most of the pro Melo guys who just say stuff like superstars win games and thats why we will be better. However it equally emphasizes my point about depth. So you replace Gallo w/ Melo. 100% agree thats a big upgrade right there. Now who replaces Chandler? AR? Great.. so AR gets a chance to play. Guess what.. he's been TERRIBLE. In fact Knicks are -13 with him on the floor. So Melo scores your 8 more points but the other guy costs you 13. It doesnt add up.

Obviously this math is dodgy but you guys are making an assumption that (one great + one lousy) > than (two good). Sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt. I think we all agree that to be an elite team you need at least one stud who can get you baskets like Amare is doing, and now Felton for that matter. However after that (in my opinion) it becomes about balance and the other parts of the game. Gallo and Chandler provide that. Melo would (potentially) provide an inbalance. It would seriously weaken the rotation and Melo isnt a top flight defender you can stick on the opposing scorer like Kobe and Lebron do.

Everyone is fixed on the players.

I'm fixated on the NEED.

The guy we need is Bogut. I'm willing to trade Curry's expiring AND Chandler, Mosgov and AR for Bogut + Salmons if the chance came up because Bogut gives us the BALANCE and fills the NEED that makes us an elite team that competes for titles. I would even part with Fields in that deal because Gallo/Amare/Bogut is the best frontcourt in thre NBA.

You can add Melo, but if you dont improve center and add depth your still getting pushed out of the paint every game, yout still getting scoring on by guys like Darko and 2nd teir player at will and your NOT getting out of the first round because teams like the Hawks, Magic, Celtics and Bulls will destroy you in the paint over a 7 game series. Whoop de do

FistOfOakley wrote:we're currently 4th in the NBA in offensive efficiency. we can't really get that much better than how we're doing but then again we've played some fairly bad defensive teams. after this month if we're still top 8 then i don't see a humongous need to grab Melo.

you also have to take into account that assuming we don't trade fields, he would take Gallo's spot in the lineup and Melo is not a good 3pt shooter and neither is Fields. Felton has been good and Chandler has been 'alright' from 3 but it's not inconceivable that we become a worse offensive team after getting Melo.

imo, we'd be better off doing a smaller deal for nene.

it is not like gallo makes a lot of 3s for it to make a difference at the 3 point line with melo. when taken into account that melo makes up for his lack of 3 points made with a ton of shots made within the 3 point line.

TMS wrote:

fishmike wrote:And TMS... that reply from thejerk is better than I have heard from most of the pro Melo guys who just say stuff like superstars win games and thats why we will be better. However it equally emphasizes my point about depth. So you replace Gallo w/ Melo. 100% agree thats a big upgrade right there. Now who replaces Chandler? AR? Great.. so AR gets a chance to play. Guess what.. he's been TERRIBLE. In fact Knicks are -13 with him on the floor. So Melo scores your 8 more points but the other guy costs you 13. It doesnt add up.

Obviously this math is dodgy but you guys are making an assumption that (one great + one lousy) > than (two good). Sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt. I think we all agree that to be an elite team you need at least one stud who can get you baskets like Amare is doing, and now Felton for that matter. However after that (in my opinion) it becomes about balance and the other parts of the game. Gallo and Chandler provide that. Melo would (potentially) provide an inbalance. It would seriously weaken the rotation and Melo isnt a top flight defender you can stick on the opposing scorer like Kobe and Lebron do.

Everyone is fixed on the players.

I'm fixated on the NEED.

The guy we need is Bogut. I'm willing to trade Curry's expiring AND Chandler, Mosgov and AR for Bogut + Salmons if the chance came up because Bogut gives us the BALANCE and fills the NEED that makes us an elite team that competes for titles. I would even part with Fields in that deal because Gallo/Amare/Bogut is the best frontcourt in thre NBA.

You can add Melo, but if you dont improve center and add depth your still getting pushed out of the paint every game, yout still getting scoring on by guys like Darko and 2nd teir player at will and your NOT getting out of the first round because teams like the Hawks, Magic, Celtics and Bulls will destroy you in the paint over a 7 game series. Whoop de do

to judge AR based on his spotty chances this season & assume that's the type of production he'd put up if given more of a role on this team going forward is completely unfair... last year he put up 12 / 7 / 2 over 23 mpg playing in another uptempo style offense under Don Nelson... if u combine that with Melo's #'s u end up with a big upgrade over the production we're currently getting out of Gallo & Wilson.

as for Bogut, why even bring up his name? the Bucks aren't trading him unless they get a package that absolutely blows them away... Melo is all the talk right now because he's obviously pushing for a trade to come to the Knicks, & the Nuggets are under pressure to trade him before the deadline passes... we don't need a star C to play next to Amare... we need a role player guy to spell Turiaf some minutes & can play some D & pull down boards... in the postseason we will need a guy that can create his own shot other than just Felton & Amare... you'll see once the playoffs come around you're gonna wish we had a guy like Melo that can go shot for shot with guys like Pierce, Lebron, etc... teams are going to be double teaming Amare downlow & Felton can be very streaky... a guy like Melo will take a ton of pressure off those 2 guys & give us a stud weapon to allow us to matchup much better against teams like the Celtics, Heat, Lakers, etc.

You said
guy like Melo will take a ton of pressure off those 2 guys & give us a stud weapon to allow us to matchup much better against teams like the Celtics, Heat, Lakers, etc.

Hello! He's gone against those types of teams year after year and LOST. What makes those teams so great is they have a stud weapon AND they have the size to push you around in the paint. Kobe has never won without Gasol or Shaq.

scoshin,
Moreover, I'm in the camp that wouldn't trade both Gallo and Chandler for Melo. I'd only give up one, cause I believe we're in the driver's seat here. If Denver adamantly refuses to trade Melo unless we give up both Gallo/Chandler (and/or Fields), I'm perfectly willing to play that blinking game and let it go all the way to FA

I'm in that camp too. I would trade Gallo OR Chandler for MElo. Then I would offer a choice of any two of AR, Mos, Douglas, Rautins, Jerome Jordan, Walker.

That with Curry's expiring is fair for the Knicks. If Den doesnt want to take it fine. I can put my offseason $$$ into resigning Chandler and getting help upfront.

fishmike wrote:

TMS wrote:

fishmike wrote:And TMS... that reply from thejerk is better than I have heard from most of the pro Melo guys who just say stuff like superstars win games and thats why we will be better. However it equally emphasizes my point about depth. So you replace Gallo w/ Melo. 100% agree thats a big upgrade right there. Now who replaces Chandler? AR? Great.. so AR gets a chance to play. Guess what.. he's been TERRIBLE. In fact Knicks are -13 with him on the floor. So Melo scores your 8 more points but the other guy costs you 13. It doesnt add up.

Obviously this math is dodgy but you guys are making an assumption that (one great + one lousy) > than (two good). Sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt. I think we all agree that to be an elite team you need at least one stud who can get you baskets like Amare is doing, and now Felton for that matter. However after that (in my opinion) it becomes about balance and the other parts of the game. Gallo and Chandler provide that. Melo would (potentially) provide an inbalance. It would seriously weaken the rotation and Melo isnt a top flight defender you can stick on the opposing scorer like Kobe and Lebron do.

Everyone is fixed on the players.

I'm fixated on the NEED.

The guy we need is Bogut. I'm willing to trade Curry's expiring AND Chandler, Mosgov and AR for Bogut + Salmons if the chance came up because Bogut gives us the BALANCE and fills the NEED that makes us an elite team that competes for titles. I would even part with Fields in that deal because Gallo/Amare/Bogut is the best frontcourt in thre NBA.

You can add Melo, but if you dont improve center and add depth your still getting pushed out of the paint every game, yout still getting scoring on by guys like Darko and 2nd teir player at will and your NOT getting out of the first round because teams like the Hawks, Magic, Celtics and Bulls will destroy you in the paint over a 7 game series. Whoop de do

to judge AR based on his spotty chances this season & assume that's the type of production he'd put up if given more of a role on this team going forward is completely unfair... last year he put up 12 / 7 / 2 over 23 mpg playing in another uptempo style offense under Don Nelson... if u combine that with Melo's #'s u end up with a big upgrade over the production we're currently getting out of Gallo & Wilson.

as for Bogut, why even bring up his name? the Bucks aren't trading him unless they get a package that absolutely blows them away... Melo is all the talk right now because he's obviously pushing for a trade to come to the Knicks, & the Nuggets are under pressure to trade him before the deadline passes... we don't need a star C to play next to Amare... we need a role player guy to spell Turiaf some minutes & can play some D & pull down boards... in the postseason we will need a guy that can create his own shot other than just Felton & Amare... you'll see once the playoffs come around you're gonna wish we had a guy like Melo that can go shot for shot with guys like Pierce, Lebron, etc... teams are going to be double teaming Amare downlow & Felton can be very streaky... a guy like Melo will take a ton of pressure off those 2 guys & give us a stud weapon to allow us to matchup much better against teams like the Celtics, Heat, Lakers, etc.

I'm not judging AR. I'm saying you trade two quality starters for one and the new weak link can hurt you just as much as the better player can help you.

You said
guy like Melo will take a ton of pressure off those 2 guys & give us a stud weapon to allow us to matchup much better against teams like the Celtics, Heat, Lakers, etc.

Hello! He's gone against those types of teams year after year and LOST. What makes those teams so great is they have a stud weapon AND they have the size to push you around in the paint. Kobe has never won without Gasol or Shaq.

hello! Melo's never had a stud frontcourt player like Amare to play with & he's gone up against the championship Lakers dude! what franchise guy do u know of that's been able to beat that team without other studs on his team to help him? fine Melo had Chauncey, but does Nene even come close to comparing to Amare? don't think so... ur so damn caught up in trying to prove that Melo can't carry a team on his own but you ignore the fact that if we trade for him he wouldn't BE alone on this Knicks team! Ray Felton, Amare, Fields, Turiaf, TD, Williams &/or AR... that's a ton of help right there... u add Melo to that roster & suddenly u have that elite scoring wing player to match up with the Kobe's, Lebron's, Pierce's, etc. in a playoff series along w/the PG & frontcourt player as well... & who says u can't add size to the frontcourt & still make a trade to get Melo? u don't need to trade for a stud up front, we already have one... u just need some added depth... there are guys we can realistically target that fill that role w/o having to give up any of the assets it would take to get Melo in my view.

fishmike wrote:Detroit beat that team. Beat Kobe/Shaq in their prime. Shoulda swept but for that miracle 3 point shot. Size defense and depth.

Not hung up on anything Melo. I just think we have some good young pieces and I dont think trading them all for Melo is what brings us to the next level as you do. I think we need size and defense up front. The wings are loaded and we are winning games because of it.

How many championships did Shaq and Kobe win versus Detroit?

tkf wrote:I have a question.. would the miami heat be better with lebron, Bogut and ginobili, rather than lebron wade and bosh?

i would dare to say that the heat would be better with lebron, Bogut and manu.. more balance, different skillsets... Yet we can say that wade is better than both bogut and manu and for that matter, bosh is better than bogut... so what gives?

Again, it is about finding that right balance..... Now I am not saying gallo and chandler are bogut and manu, but it is not out of reach.. did anyone ever think manu and bogut would be this good at this point in their careers.. especially manu?

I dont think so. Lebron and Wade can carry a team to the playoffs by themselves. Guys are not going to stay healthy for 82 games every season.

I take Wade and Bosh over the likes of Bogut and Ginobli all day every day.