Posted by PresIke:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by joec32033:

just posted this to show that racism isn't an exclusively black & white issue... we still have a long, LONG way to go in this country guys & gals.

Author and Owner of Blacknificent Books.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 11 April 2007 07:27]

That is vile and disturbing. Racism is a problem that must be removed. I remember someone asking my ethics professor how will we ever get rid of racism. He joking responded, when space aliens land on this planet and then humans can band together and focus their hate on a different species. It was funny and everyone laugh but I then remember that movie "Alien Nation" back in the 80s and that was the premise of the movie. Says alot about human nature.

Certainly racism is an issue that effects everyone, regardless of "race" (which is a social construct), but I challenge one to consider how this individual's view about how to respond to white people's treatment of people of African descent following the Katrina disaster (which is pretty darn hard to deny as having racial connotations) should be seen as so "vile" and "disturbing" and a representation that blacks can be "racist" when if you check the long standing history of treatment of people of African descent in not only the United States, but Africa, Brazil and beyond is not exactly far from understandable.

I am not suggesting that this gentleman's idea is the best or "right" solution, but if one tries to empathize with the way (at least) some people of African descent feel and experience racism then it isn't as "vile" and "disturbing" as one might be led to believe, and should be more of an indicator as to how much awful treatment people of color experience in America. It's not to say that his suggestion is actually something that is going to take place or be bought into by more than a few people anyway, where as derogatory comments/jokes about black people that Imus, Michael Richards, etc. make are common place among whites and have a far more lasting effect on society because of whites power and privilege.

In essence, this is why the definition of racism that takes these type of things into account would not classify his comments as so, and possess far less of an impact than a mainstream, white person's comments about people of color in our current society.
I'd argue that his point is

Posted by Nalod:

Anyone want to talk about the Duke lacrosse boys flat out being innocent and the rush to judgement and assistance the "exotic dancer" was offered for stepping forward?

If you weren't aware, the Duke boys did have their rallies. Also, it was the unversity who took action against them. Not to mention that the unversity sited that this was not the first incident surrounding that team. I am still concern that an "exotic dancer" was allowed on the campus to begin with. College really changed since I attended. So much for higher learning.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by Solace:

I hope all rap artists and comedians who use similar lingo are also fired. Since it's such an outrage for his comments to be used as such, it's only fair. I hope everyone who lobbied so hard for Imus's firing lobbies so hard for that.

Imus is the one who said in 1995 of Gwen Ifill, an accomplished, award-winning black journalist of incredible dignity and grace: "Isn't the [New York] Times wonderful. . . . It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House."

I will be the first person to join you in the quest to rid the world of rap music. If you could first find the rap artist who put that on their track. That must have been a well verse rapper.]

Posted by BlueSeats:


But we're still left with the comments of Imus and lots of shock jocks just like him, and what I'm finding problematic is that he wasn't just going after blacks, he was going after women too. And if they were a Special Olympics team he'd probably have dissed their disabilities too.

So, when you have a "comedy" show about hate, where pushing buttons and challenging limits are the norm, these are the kinds of infractions you will naturally encounter This is why some of us don't find it easy to declare him an outright racist, because in fairness to the rest, you'd have to also declare him outright a hater of women, the disabled, jews, environmantalists, republicans and anyone else who falls under his "rhetoric of hate." Do those of you who consider him beyond the shadow of a doubt a racist also consider him equally hateful of the rest of his victims?

I think most of us agree that context and repetition can play a role in getting at the truth. Maybe if statistics would show that while Imus bashes everyone, his worst and most frequent attacks are on blacks. That would be suggestive of something.

But what about the Jerry Springer show. Jerry doesn't speak badly about "white trash," but what little I've seen of it certainly seems to feast on them, constantly showing them in the worst possible light. Does that mean he hates these people? We probably think not because he's white too (if Jews are white, which some might debate.) But if the producers of that show had decided to use a black host he very well might be considered a reverse-racist. Would that then be a fair accusation on a black host?

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by codeunknown:

Posted by BlueSeats:


But we're still left with the comments of Imus and lots of shock jocks just like him, and what I'm finding problematic is that he wasn't just going after blacks, he was going after women too. And if they were a Special Olympics team he'd probably have dissed their disabilities too.

So, when you have a "comedy" show about hate, where pushing buttons and challenging limits are the norm, these are the kinds of infractions you will naturally encounter This is why some of us don't find it easy to declare him an outright racist, because in fairness to the rest, you'd have to also declare him outright a hater of women, the disabled, jews, environmantalists, republicans and anyone else who falls under his "rhetoric of hate." Do those of you who consider him beyond the shadow of a doubt a racist also consider him equally hateful of the rest of his victims?

I think most of us agree that context and repetition can play a role in getting at the truth. Maybe if statistics would show that while Imus bashes everyone, his worst and most frequent attacks are on blacks. That would be suggestive of something.

But what about the Jerry Springer show. Jerry doesn't speak badly about "white trash," but what little I've seen of it certainly seems to feast on them, constantly showing them in the worst possible light. Does that mean he hates these people? We probably think not because he's white too (if Jews are white, which some might debate.) But if the producers of that show had decided to use a black host he very well might be considered a reverse-racist. Would that then be a fair accusation on a black host?

Statistics on the show, with regard to both pre-meditated topics of discussion and spontaneous hateful comments, would definitely help in placing his current misadventure. After listening to the statement over and over again, its his authentic derisive inflection, his convincing "I'll tell you that much" follow-up and his subsequent semi-serious "recovery," that the Tennessee girls were "cute," that leads me to believe that he went "out of character," so to speak. I don't believe that he thinks that black women are "hoes" in particular, but I would put money that he feels that natural looking black women are ugly. I also think the sexist component of his comment, the implication that the value of women is in their looks, can be explained away more easily (if one were inclined to do so) than the racial overtones.

I think the Jerry Springer Show is designed as a corner sideshow and that element is effectively conveyed. From his in-brawl commentary to his final thought, I think Jerry directly addresses the fact that his show is not indicative of mainstream whites. And I think the large proportion of whites on his show can be explained by the natural population distribution. That said, I agree that a black host would receive more skepticism. I don't think the skepticism would be job threatining, however, if he/she imitated Jerry as the "compassionate arbiter."

Damn, you're a lot better versed in these shows than I.

But I wouldn't take much pride in that if I were you.