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THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THESE INSANE RUMORS START UP: KG 2 NY!!!
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bobs3304
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11/23/2005  1:53 AM
^ Ya, if anything his rebounding has improved over the last couple years (statistically).

He's still only 29...and JUST past his prime. He still has a good 4 years left of basketball to play under his current contract.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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joec32033
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11/23/2005  5:46 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
he was hurt at times last year.
But what big man plays hard for 82 games and isn't hurt at times? The key issue to me is that it's not affecting him on the court. He's 29. If he were 34, it would be a different story


Bonn, I had him on my fantasy team last year and he was nursing injuries for half the year, I remember because I never knew if he was going to play.

He's still only 29...and JUST past his prime. He still has a good 4 years left of basketball to play under his current contract.

Exactly my point! He has some good basketball left, but in 4 yrs, our youngs will be coming around. Like I said I wouldn't mind if all we dealt were expiring contracts and a young 2/3. no need to overpay. Frye and Curry to me is untouchable. Like i said, AD, Penny and Ariza OR Lee OR Q I would do.
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Silverfuel
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11/23/2005  6:40 AM
Posted by joec32033:

Exactly my point! He has some good basketball left, but in 4 yrs, our youngs will be coming around.
You arent being consistent. You are taking worst case scenario for KG and best case scenario for Frye. You are assuming Frye will improve to a very high level of play to become a franchise player and you are assuming KG only has 3 good years ahead of him. If so say Frye will take 4 years to become a franchise player, you can speculate that KG has atleast 7 good years ahead of him. That would be fair.

There is a danger here though. The danger is that Frye will NEVER be as good as KG. I mean, what % of young players can you say will be as good as KG? Amare? Howard? Thats about it. KG is a finished product. Him, Stephon and Larry Brown give us the best chance to win now. Frye MIGHT develop into KG. Its a gamble. So if we take reasonable worst case scenario's for both players, Frye will never become a franchise player type of talent and KG will be done in 3 years. In that case, I will still take the 3 year run with Larry Brown, Stephon and KG.
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EnySpree
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11/23/2005  7:49 AM
KG does everything on the court. He could play every position basically. He is a very rare player. Duncan is similiar and so is Dirk for sure. They were saying in the summer that Amare was working on his three point shot and can stroke it with consistancy!!! These guys are rare. Frye doesn't show the handle these guys have because he just seems so automatic on the jump hook and his jumpshot.

Frye has a good ways to go before we can even mention his name with them. Maybe at mid-season we can really see where he is as a player. He's so confident and he is humble as hell. He also plays with pride and says all the things that the great ones say.

With that being said.........Can a brother be greedy? Why buy a Nintendo DS when you can wait a few months and get the PSP? Yeah you'll be wishing you still had the chips but damn look at all the things it can do!....in other words.....if you can get KG you do it! besides....KG comes with Wally Z.....that's like getting the PSP with a 1.0 gig memory card included! That's a hundred dollar value!



[Edited by - enyspree on 11-23-2005 07:51 AM]
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Silverfuel
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11/23/2005  8:10 AM
Posted by EnySpree:
if you can get KG you do it! besides....KG comes with Wally Z.....that's like getting the PSP with a 1.0 gig memory card included! That's a hundred dollar value!
LOL...Good post Eny.

joe: I'm all for developing young talent. I wouldnt do a trade for most NBA stars. I wouldnt trade Frye for Zach Randoph or Shareef or Rasheed or Walker etc. I would rather develop Frye and Curry too. I wouldnt trade them for 99% of the NBA players. But none of them are on the same level as Kevin Garnett.
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Killa4luv
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11/23/2005  9:49 AM
This thread is insane. Frye will likely NEVER be as good as KG. But how many players in the history of the game have been? Frye still can be a good or even great player, and still fall short of KG. If you can get KG, you do it, and I LOVE Frye, but if thats what it takes, its really a no brainer. You guys are making mainly emotional arguments with a dash of logic added in.


joec32033
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11/23/2005  4:35 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by joec32033:

Exactly my point! He has some good basketball left, but in 4 yrs, our youngs will be coming around.
You arent being consistent. You are taking worst case scenario for KG and best case scenario for Frye. You are assuming Frye will improve to a very high level of play to become a franchise player and you are assuming KG only has 3 good years ahead of him. If so say Frye will take 4 years to become a franchise player, you can speculate that KG has atleast 7 good years ahead of him. That would be fair.

There is a danger here though. The danger is that Frye will NEVER be as good as KG. I mean, what % of young players can you say will be as good as KG? Amare? Howard? Thats about it. KG is a finished product. Him, Stephon and Larry Brown give us the best chance to win now. Frye MIGHT develop into KG. Its a gamble. So if we take reasonable worst case scenario's for both players, Frye will never become a franchise player type of talent and KG will be done in 3 years. In that case, I will still take the 3 year run with Larry Brown, Stephon and KG.


Actually, I would trade Frye in a heartbeat for Howard, or an Amare....Why, because neither of them is close to 30...I am being very consistent with my statements...I am not saying Frye is untouchable, I am saying there is no way I include a 22 yr old 6-11, player with skill into a trade for Garnett. Now if you want to trade any of our swingmen (Q, Ariza, lee) fine...
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EnySpree
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11/23/2005  4:44 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by EnySpree:
if you can get KG you do it! besides....KG comes with Wally Z.....that's like getting the PSP with a 1.0 gig memory card included! That's a hundred dollar value!
LOL...Good post Eny.

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Bonn1997
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11/23/2005  6:36 PM
Actually, I would trade Frye in a heartbeat for Howard, or an Amare....Why, because neither of them is close to 30
I'd be a thousand times more concerned about Amare's knee and how well he'll hold up than about Garnett. A 22 year old knee that's needed microfracture surgery is a much more serious concern than a 29 year old knee that's had mild to moderate tendinitis at times.
joec32033
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11/23/2005  6:51 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Actually, I would trade Frye in a heartbeat for Howard, or an Amare....Why, because neither of them is close to 30
I'd be a thousand times more concerned about Amare's knee and how well he'll hold up than about Garnett. A 22 year old knee that's needed microfracture surgery is a much more serious concern than a 29 year old knee that's had mild to moderate tendinitis at times.


Do I have to be so literal? Ok...I will spell it out....I will not trade a 22 yr old, 6-11, PF/C with inside outside potential and room for growth and development for a 30 yr old All-Star who is past his prime. If you give me a you Amare (BEFORE THE MICROFRACTURE Surgery)-type or Dwight Howard-type, then you can talk about dealing Frye! Can you read between the lines or do I have to spell it out further?
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JayNYC
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11/23/2005  7:16 PM
Do I have to be so literal? Ok...I will spell it out....I will not trade a 22 yr old, 6-11, PF/C with inside outside potential and room for growth and development for a 30 yr old All-Star who is past his prime. If you give me a you Amare (BEFORE THE MICROFRACTURE Surgery)-type or Dwight Howard-type, then you can talk about dealing Frye! Can you read between the lines or do I have to spell it out further?

I don't get it.. You won't trade for Kevin Garnett because at 29, he's considered past his prime.. right? Well, Does that mean that A.I, Kobe, Tracy McGrady, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki would be off limits as well because they are going to be 28 plus?


Just out of curiosity, Do you think that Amare Stoudemire or/Dwight Howard are better than Kevin Garnett even when comparing them prior to knee injury?

[Edited by - JayNYC on 11-23-2005 7:16 PM]
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bobs3304
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11/23/2005  8:24 PM
Question for all of you:


1.) Do you think Okafor is better than Frye?

2.) Assuming you said Emeka, do you think he has the potential to become much better than he is already?

3.) So would you trade Emeka for Garnett?



See the point is that it's not always about stats, but the type of impact you have and how you effect your teammates. Emeka won't draw double teams, and either will Frye. They won't make teammates better by finding the open man. They won't become leaders. They won't be MVP's, or become a go-to-guy.

Garnett, on the other hand, even past his prime, WILL.

You can talk about potential and youth till youre blue in the face, but talent is talent no matter how you slice it. Anyone who refuses to give up Frye for Garnett is senile...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
joec32033
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11/23/2005  10:27 PM
Posted by JayNYC:
Do I have to be so literal? Ok...I will spell it out....I will not trade a 22 yr old, 6-11, PF/C with inside outside potential and room for growth and development for a 30 yr old All-Star who is past his prime. If you give me a you Amare (BEFORE THE MICROFRACTURE Surgery)-type or Dwight Howard-type, then you can talk about dealing Frye! Can you read between the lines or do I have to spell it out further?

I don't get it.. You won't trade for Kevin Garnett because at 29, he's considered past his prime.. right? Well, Does that mean that A.I, Kobe, Tracy McGrady, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki would be off limits as well because they are going to be 28 plus?


Just out of curiosity, Do you think that Amare Stoudemire or/Dwight Howard are better than Kevin Garnett even when comparing them prior to knee injury?

[Edited by - JayNYC on 11-23-2005 7:16 PM]



Amare could be a dominant force (mind you he is STILL only 22 and before he went down it was written somewhere he was devleloping a 3pt shot). Howard has that potential.

You have a point about all these elite players at 28 or 29 that is hard to argue BUT I still would prefer to obtain--in no particular order-- Lebron, Wade, Shawn Marion, Arenas, Bosh, Kirilinko, Jermaine, Artest, Amare (if proven healthy) and Howard. A YOUNG dominant player that is markedly better than what we are giving up and will continue to be a star for a long time.

Making a move on KG giving up most of our young talent reminds me of all the moves the Knicks tried to make acquiring 30 yr old players like Glen Rice and McDyess (who granted was unhealthy anyway)and they just failed here. We have a young core here and Channing is the best of the bunch. Normally I hate trading Big for small, but I would definately include Channing in a move for ANY of the guys I just mentioned.

BTW...KG is GOING on 30...

http://www.nba.com/players/
TMAC is going on 27, I'll move frye for him.
Bryant is going on 28, I'll move Frye for him.
Nowitzki is going on 28 in June, I'll take him (hypothetically...I never liked his game)
AI is going on 32...no way.
Duncan is going on 31 and his numbers are decreasing (granted it's still better than ANYONE we have, but there are better options if we are talking hypotheically for this team.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 11-23-2005 10:35 PM]
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crzymdups
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11/23/2005  10:29 PM
Amare DESTROYED KG every time they met last year. Howard and Amare are so much more valuable than KG right now, it's not even a question.
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PhilinLA
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11/23/2005  10:31 PM
LeBron pushes KG even further down the list.
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bobs3304
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11/23/2005  10:36 PM
T-Mac has publicly been having back problems for years....even being only 27.

Kobe missed something like 25 games last year....even being only 28.

Nowitzki has had on and off ankle problems....even being only 28.

AI misses a set amount of games EVERY year.

Duncan has frequent ankle injuries...


I think it's fair to say KG is the most healthy of that bunch.

Now, Crzy does make a good point that younger guys like Amare and Howard will be more dominant forces. But KG is more of a leader, and makes teammates better.

I'll take that over pure dominance considering how badly we need a floor leader...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
joec32033
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11/23/2005  10:47 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

T-Mac has publicly been having back problems for years....even being only 27.

Kobe missed something like 25 games last year....even being only 28.

Nowitzki has had on and off ankle problems....even being only 28.

AI misses a set amount of games EVERY year.

Duncan has frequent ankle injuries...


I think it's fair to say KG is the most healthy of that bunch.

Now, Crzy does make a good point that younger guys like Amare and Howard will be more dominant forces. But KG is more of a leader, and makes teammates better.

I'll take that over pure dominance considering how badly we need a floor leader...


bobs...pick a stance. KG had injuries he played through last year...so you plan on grouping him into this list too then?

Once AGAIN...I DO NOT DEAL FOR AI OR DUNCAN.....2nd, TMac missed 4 games last year--http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tracy_mcgrady/index.html--

Bryant played 66 games last year (that's missing 16 not 25--http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html), and mostly ALL of them were about that rape trial that he was dumb enough to get himself into...

Manipulating the numbers can be fun bobs, until the facts hit you in the face.

Oh...and for the record, Dirk also played in 78 games last year.http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dirk_nowitzki/index.html

It would be fair to say KG is the toughest of the bunch (something I won't argue), but not the healthiest. Honestly, I see where you ae coming from where you say KG makes his teammates better, but I see it he makes his team collectively better as opposed to making the individual parts better. I mean what teammates has he TRULY made better? He is undoubtedly a leader (I think however punching that rook in the face in a summer scrimmage for scoring on him is a tad excessive), and I will agree with his will to win being extremely high.

like I said before If we can get KG with expiring contracts (which to me are ONLY good for trading on this team) and moving where we have a marked surplus (SF) I am ALL over it. Don't overpay for him. IMO, We will regret it.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 11-23-2005 10:52 PM]
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djsunyc
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11/23/2005  10:50 PM
can we kill this thread and just start a new one with a poll : would you trade frye in a package for KG?

that's it - this topic has been beaten to death, buried, then dug up, pissed on, and then buried again.
joec32033
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11/23/2005  10:53 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

can we kill this thread and just start a new one with a poll : would you trade frye in a package for KG?

that's it - this topic has been beaten to death, buried, then dug up, pissed on, and then buried again.


DJ me and you are cool as hell, but please skip the thread if you don't want to read it...this is an interesting topic for me and it seems a few other posters here.
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crzymdups
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11/23/2005  10:53 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

can we kill this thread and just start a new one with a poll : would you trade frye in a package for KG?

that's it - this topic has been beaten to death, buried, then dug up, pissed on, and then buried again.

it's going to be like this until February's trade deadline. I think we should keep this confined to this one specific thread. KG should not even be mentioned outside this thread. even in a Minnie/NYk game thread! this thread only!

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THIS IS EXACTLY WHY THESE INSANE RUMORS START UP: KG 2 NY!!!
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