Posted by BigSm00th:

to be fair, over half the teams make the playoffs in the nba, compared to only 4 per league in the MLB. there are also twice as many players just on the big league team, and a whole minor league to run, different drafts versus just the two rounds of the nba (with isiah just giving away picks every year). comparing cashman to isiah is certainly unfair to cashman, i mean, lets get real. i don't think isiah made 1 good move, ever. ca$h has at least made some OK moves.

bonn, if you are ever "embarassed" again by the yanks just tell the people to kiss the rings baby, world's most winningest franchise.

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by Allanfan20:

And what evidence does anyone have show that Isiah would be a good exec. under any conditions?

Lets see: Sexually harrassed employees and lost in lawsuits.

Criticized the white fan base at a point that he had no right to (No, I'm not being inconsistent with the race issue in any shape. I think racism sucks on all ends, so lets not turn it into a race issue.)

Hardly got any of his players to improve.

Couldn't get his team to win for crap both as a coach and an executive, and players quit on him very early in the season, normally.

Decent late round picks, HORRIBLE lottery pick.

HORRIBLE trades. HORRIBLE free agent signings.

Yeah you're right. Brian Cashman, who uses his recourses the best way he can, is right on par with Isiah, despite having 3 big time free agent signings.

Geeze. He has his faults, but to compare him to Isiah? Please.

Not necessarily comparing him to Isiah, but if Cashman had to operate under the conditions that Isiah did he probably wouldnt be as successful. Cashman gave 40 mil to a complete bust in Pavano...117 mill to Giambi. Farnsworth, Randy Johnson, Igawa, Vazquez, Kevin Brown, Jared Wright...names off the top of my head. In the NBA the cap doesnt allow for that many mistakes, in addition you have the 15% trade rule which makes it hard to get out of bad deals.

The Knicks are still paying for Eddy Curry and Jeffries (even tho his deal was relatively minor). The Yankees arent punished for their bad deals outside of their bottom line. Cashman can keep spending until he gets it right, and just tuck away his bad deals. Zeke couldnt do that.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by Allanfan20:

PS: Anyone embarrassed to be a Yankee fan needs to get a clue. They pay a lot of money to compete every year. Maybe they don't do the right things at times, and God knows I don't agree with a lot of their decisions, but what they do are not worthy of embarrassment. If they want to spend the money, and feel that's the best route for them to go, then do it.

Hopefully it will grow some fruits finally.

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 28-04-2009 04:07 AM]

I just want you to understand that I am embarrassed by their laziness as an organization. They are getting outworked and other organizations are running circles around them in the brain trust dept.

The Yankees are relying far too heavily on their payroll advantage. Their on the field and off the field philosophy seems to be just to wait for the three run homer. They dont have any interest in putting together a balanced team, it seems --- their work begins and ends with signing the next big free agent. Its getting nauseating.

It's just not something to be embarrassed about, in my personal opinion. It's not the RIGHT way, but it's not something to cause embarrassment. It's freaking sports. lol

And I agree, I noticed from the beginning of the season that we've been going back to nothing but home run ball, and that's not going to take us anywhere. I don't know when the Yankees are going to learn.

Posted by sebstar:

We're obviously not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. Cashman and the Yankees have pumped BILLIONS into this team and havent been able to field a decent pitching staff, bullpen, hell a balanced team in years. I see some really disturbing trends develop with this organization and I really dont like it.

Yeah, every team makes mistakes, but the ledger is tipping in the wrong direction for Cash-Man and his philosophy is a faulty one.

And as an obvious Cash-Man supporter, I wouldnt be taking shots at Theo if I were you. Comparing Theo to Cash is a CP3 to Rafer Alston comparison at this point.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by sebstar:

We're obviously not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. Cashman and the Yankees have pumped BILLIONS into this team and havent been able to field a decent pitching staff, bullpen, hell a balanced team in years. I see some really disturbing trends develop with this organization and I really dont like it.

Yeah, every team makes mistakes, but the ledger is tipping in the wrong direction for Cash-Man and his philosophy is a faulty one.

And as an obvious Cash-Man supporter, I wouldnt be taking shots at Theo if I were you. Comparing Theo to Cash is a CP3 to Rafer Alston comparison at this point.

since '02 when Theo took over the only thing he's really ahead in is championships (2-0), which I admit is nothing small to be scoffed at, but Cashman's teams won the AL East 5 times, Epstein's once... if it's not all about winning championships like yourself & Bonn have already stated, then i fail to see what your frustration is over the job Cashman's done over the past 7 years... the fact is that he's the winningest GM in baseball over that time... the only thing he's "failed" at in the past 7 years is winning championships, even tho he's got more of those under his belt than any other GM in baseball does too.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-28-2009 12:26 PM]

If you've been watching for the past 5 years, especially the past 13 months, and have been carefully reading my posts and still don't understand my frustration and that of the majority of Yankees fans in polling, then you simply never will and there is nothing left to discuss.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by Allanfan20:

PS: Anyone embarrassed to be a Yankee fan needs to get a clue. They pay a lot of money to compete every year. Maybe they don't do the right things at times, and God knows I don't agree with a lot of their decisions, but what they do are not worthy of embarrassment. If they want to spend the money, and feel that's the best route for them to go, then do it.

Hopefully it will grow some fruits finally.

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 28-04-2009 04:07 AM]

I just want you to understand that I am embarrassed by their laziness as an organization. They are getting outworked and other organizations are running circles around them in the brain trust dept.

The Yankees are relying far too heavily on their payroll advantage. Their on the field and off the field philosophy seems to be just to wait for the three run homer. They dont have any interest in putting together a balanced team, it seems --- their work begins and ends with signing the next big free agent. Its getting nauseating.

It's just not something to be embarrassed about, in my personal opinion. It's not the RIGHT way, but it's not something to cause embarrassment. It's freaking sports. lol

I didn't say I go home and cry or something. But let me ask you this, do you take pride in the team when they win? If so, then it sounds like you view the team as a part of your self (pride and embarrassment are *self* referent feelings) only when the team is doing well. Some might say that makes you a bandwagoner.

A bandwagoner? You got your facts wrong kiddo. I've been a fan since about 92 when Toronto was dominating the AL the the Yankees still sucked. I was in 4th grade, I believe. Actually, I was on the fence between the Mets and Yankees in 3rd grade. Then I became a big fan of a player by the name of Pat Kelly and that drew me to the Yanks. After that, I grew to love Mattingly and Boggs and a young Bernie and Melido Perez and Mike Gaellgo and Valardie and Spike Owen. That was when we sucked!!! But I stuck with them and I stick with them now, just as I am sticking with the Knicks now and just as I stook with the Giants.

I take as much satisfaction in the Yanks winning as you can imagine and would kill for the Yanks to win the World Series this year. And like I said, everything isn't peaches in cream. But I'll never be embarrassed to be a fan of the team. Sorry, wont do it.

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 28-04-2009 4:22 PM]

I was more playing around and introducing an alternative view than actually accusing you of being a bandwagoner. But would you be embarrassed or ashamed if you found out your son hit another kid on the playground? That's basically how I feel. I take so much pride in the history of the Yankees and pride in the achievements and character of a few members of the roster but am left with nothing but embarrassment by execs running the team and recent year performances of the team.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by sebstar:

We're obviously not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. Cashman and the Yankees have pumped BILLIONS into this team and havent been able to field a decent pitching staff, bullpen, hell a balanced team in years. I see some really disturbing trends develop with this organization and I really dont like it.

Yeah, every team makes mistakes, but the ledger is tipping in the wrong direction for Cash-Man and his philosophy is a faulty one.

And as an obvious Cash-Man supporter, I wouldnt be taking shots at Theo if I were you. Comparing Theo to Cash is a CP3 to Rafer Alston comparison at this point.

since '02 when Theo took over the only thing he's really ahead in is championships (2-0), which I admit is nothing small to be scoffed at, but Cashman's teams won the AL East 5 times, Epstein's once... if it's not all about winning championships like yourself & Bonn have already stated, then i fail to see what your frustration is over the job Cashman's done over the past 7 years... the fact is that he's the winningest GM in baseball over that time... the only thing he's "failed" at in the past 7 years is winning championships, even tho he's got more of those under his belt than any other GM in baseball does too.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-28-2009 12:26 PM]

If you've been watching for the past 5 years, especially the past 13 months, and have been carefully reading my posts and still don't understand my frustration and that of the majority of Yankees fans in polling, then you simply never will and there is nothing left to discuss.

there's nothing left to discuss cuz you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I take that about as seriously as I take Isiah telling Phil Jackson he doesn't know how to coach

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by sebstar:

We're obviously not going to see eye-to-eye on this, but I hope you can see where I'm coming from. Cashman and the Yankees have pumped BILLIONS into this team and havent been able to field a decent pitching staff, bullpen, hell a balanced team in years. I see some really disturbing trends develop with this organization and I really dont like it.

Yeah, every team makes mistakes, but the ledger is tipping in the wrong direction for Cash-Man and his philosophy is a faulty one.

And as an obvious Cash-Man supporter, I wouldnt be taking shots at Theo if I were you. Comparing Theo to Cash is a CP3 to Rafer Alston comparison at this point.

since '02 when Theo took over the only thing he's really ahead in is championships (2-0), which I admit is nothing small to be scoffed at, but Cashman's teams won the AL East 5 times, Epstein's once... if it's not all about winning championships like yourself & Bonn have already stated, then i fail to see what your frustration is over the job Cashman's done over the past 7 years... the fact is that he's the winningest GM in baseball over that time... the only thing he's "failed" at in the past 7 years is winning championships, even tho he's got more of those under his belt than any other GM in baseball does too.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-28-2009 12:26 PM]

If you've been watching for the past 5 years, especially the past 13 months, and have been carefully reading my posts and still don't understand my frustration and that of the majority of Yankees fans in polling, then you simply never will and there is nothing left to discuss.

there's nothing left to discuss cuz you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I take that about as seriously as I take Isiah telling Phil Jackson he doesn't know how to coach

i guarantee you i know more about the game of baseball, the Yankees franchise, their history & their players than you ever have or ever will... don't even front dude, your "knowledge" of the Yankees reaches as far as the latest NY Post headline & ESPN web gem.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

If you've been watching for the past 5 years, especially the past 13 months, and have been carefully reading my posts and still don't understand my frustration and that of the majority of Yankees fans in polling, then you simply never will and there is nothing left to discuss.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Or as another example, I love and am proud of my dog but I felt embarrassed by her the other day at PetSmart. First, she peed in the store. Then people started giggling and pointing and I smiled a little. Then as soon as I turned around to go to get a towel, people started laughing louder. I turned around and saw that she just pooped also! I love her and am proud of her--she made through rough times as an abused and then stray dog and is now the sweetest thing in the world--but I felt embarrassed then and am not ashamed to admit it. I see nothing wrong with allowing a mixture of positive and negative feelings about any object. We don't always love those we say we love or hate those we say we hate. Life is complex.

yes, very coherent points you've been bringing to this thread... i can't believe i don't know what your stance is on this team by now.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Bonn1997:

If you've been watching for the past 5 years, especially the past 13 months, and have been carefully reading my posts and still don't understand my frustration and that of the majority of Yankees fans in polling, then you simply never will and there is nothing left to discuss.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Or as another example, I love and am proud of my dog but I felt embarrassed by her the other day at PetSmart. First, she peed in the store. Then people started giggling and pointing and I smiled a little. Then as soon as I turned around to go to get a towel, people started laughing louder. I turned around and saw that she just pooped also! I love her and am proud of her--she made through rough times as an abused and then stray dog and is now the sweetest thing in the world--but I felt embarrassed then and am not ashamed to admit it. I see nothing wrong with allowing a mixture of positive and negative feelings about any object. We don't always love those we say we love or hate those we say we hate. Life is complex.

yes, very coherent points you've been bringing to this thread... i can't believe i don't know what your stance is on this team by now.

If you've never hated someone you loved or felt embarrassed by someone you are proud of, then you simply have an emotionally constrained life. There's nothing wrong with that but I personally view it as a lower level of functioning.

another one of your baseball knowledge laden gems... thanks for contributing.