Clean wrote:The only thing that matter is wins.

In the big picture of things, winning is all that matters in the end. But it's not the only thing that matters and especially so when you are not a playoff team or have any real shot at either getting to the playoffs or winning a championship.

From a culture perspective, you need to set that goal of "only thing that matter is wins" but realistically it's one of many things that are happening at the same time.

When you get off of that perspective of only winning matters, there is a whole new world out there.

fishmike wrote:

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1501982993392578563

Deuce is the new Frank... it doesnt matter if he's got more fouls than points, its all about the +/-

Well a positive +/- means our team played better than the other team when he played. That would seem to be pretty important for a team that went 3 - 17 in the last 20 games before adding McBride to the rotation. You guys who did not want to give McBride a chance keep bringing up his scoring like that is some good point. First of all there is more to team success than scoring. Second of all the coach you love so much has been playing him out of position and just sticking him in a corner where he is not apart of the offense. The fact that he has had such a good impact on winning without his offense and how much more of an impact he will have when he starts scoring should be what you see but you don't want to see that because it would mean you were wrong about the coach you love so much. All you guys who defend Thibs deserve another full year of Kemba and Burks at PG. Lets see how that turns our for you guys and your coach.

Clean wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1501982993392578563

Deuce is the new Frank... it doesnt matter if he's got more fouls than points, its all about the +/-

Well a positive +/- means our team played better than the other team when he played. That would seem to be pretty important for a team that went 3 - 17 in the last 20 games before adding McBride to the rotation. You guys who did not want to give McBride a chance keep bringing up his scoring like that is some good point. First of all there is more to team success than scoring. Second of all the coach you love so much has been playing him out of position and just sticking him in a corner where he is not apart of the offense. The fact that he has had such a good impact on winning without his offense and how much more of an impact he will have when he starts scoring should be what you see but you don't want to see that because it would mean you were wrong about the coach you love so much. All you guys who defend Thibs deserve another full year of Kemba and Burks at PG. Lets see how that turns our for you guys and your coach.

Clean…..they dogged us out. “It’s only the g league”. “If deuce could play don’t you think coy thibs would play him?” “How can you play a second round pick over someone we gave 90 mill?” I was hearing it all.

The one good skill I have in basketball is defense and I personally know how that one skill can help a team win. So when I saw we drafted deuce, I immediately said he’s our defensive answer at point. We haven’t had a dog like that since who charlie ward? Another ex football player, what a coincidence.

Look around. There are plenty of rookies and sophomores with significant playing time on other teams. We have a solid solid draft with Obi grimes deuce sims. But we hire a coach that rather play his vets over rookies. It was a bad mix from the start.

The good news with thibs stubbornness is when it’s working he sticks with it. So it’s clear deuce belongs in the rotation and not in the g league. Was I asking for too much. If thibs sits 90mill of free agent money to win games, you think the FO will fire thibs? Would be upset? No…..probably give him more control. He should have the freedom to cook the food. The FO buys the food and enjoys the taste. Thibs takes the ingredients and makes it taste good. Kemba and Fournier taste bad from the beginning, after that 5-1 start, the taste ran out quick.

It’s ok thibs fans……I’ve said it b4…..only God is perfect. Thibs screwed up. And now he’s making up for it. Nice mix of vets and rookie / youth rotation. IQ is looking better which is key. Randle is happy. And Grimes might be that 3rd wheel in training. Or maybe IQ he’s been balling. But deuce defense is contagious. And if you combine him and IQ with Grimes and RJ. Sprinkle a Little cam. Makes Randles job that much simpler.

IQ
Deuce
Grimes
RJ
Cam
Rose

We need these wings to be disruptors on both ends at the wing positions. That will help the entire team. Especially IQ and Grimes. I like them together. Both are PGs with lob passing threats to sims or Mitch.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:The only thing that matter is wins.

In the big picture of things, winning is all that matters in the end. But it's not the only thing that matters and especially so when you are not a playoff team or have any real shot at either getting to the playoffs or winning a championship.

From a culture perspective, you need to set that goal of "only thing that matter is wins" but realistically it's one of many things that are happening at the same time.

When you get off of that perspective of only winning matters, there is a whole new world out there.

Not really. As a fan on the UK its important to be “right”. Then proclamation when so vindicated to demonstrate proficiency as a fan to see things others don’t. Things like “what we need is……”, or assumption that change from a losing situation will correct the outcome. AKA: what can a new coach do?
Don’t forget the grass is always greener and all players play to their past when are over the age of 25.

LOL, Yes, it all gets sorted on the court and scoring more than your opponent always brings wins.

LOL fair enough

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:The only thing that matter is wins.

In the big picture of things, winning is all that matters in the end. But it's not the only thing that matters and especially so when you are not a playoff team or have any real shot at either getting to the playoffs or winning a championship.

From a culture perspective, you need to set that goal of "only thing that matter is wins" but realistically it's one of many things that are happening at the same time.

When you get off of that perspective of only winning matters, there is a whole new world out there.

Not really. As a fan on the UK its important to be “right”. Then proclamation when so vindicated to demonstrate proficiency as a fan to see things others don’t. Things like “what we need is……”, or assumption that change from a losing situation will correct the outcome. AKA: what can a new coach do?
Don’t forget the grass is always greener and all players play to their past when are over the age of 25.

LOL, Yes, it all gets sorted on the court and scoring more than your opponent always brings wins.

LOL fair enough

There is a bit of “Drunk uncle” in all of us!!!!!

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:The only thing that matter is wins.

In the big picture of things, winning is all that matters in the end. But it's not the only thing that matters and especially so when you are not a playoff team or have any real shot at either getting to the playoffs or winning a championship.

From a culture perspective, you need to set that goal of "only thing that matter is wins" but realistically it's one of many things that are happening at the same time.

When you get off of that perspective of only winning matters, there is a whole new world out there.

Only a tortured Knicks fan can have this perspective “Winning isn’t everything”. Some where Vince Lombardi is rolling over in his grave.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:The only thing that matter is wins.

In the big picture of things, winning is all that matters in the end. But it's not the only thing that matters and especially so when you are not a playoff team or have any real shot at either getting to the playoffs or winning a championship.

From a culture perspective, you need to set that goal of "only thing that matter is wins" but realistically it's one of many things that are happening at the same time.

When you get off of that perspective of only winning matters, there is a whole new world out there.

Not really. As a fan on the UK its important to be “right”. Then proclamation when so vindicated to demonstrate proficiency as a fan to see things others don’t. Things like “what we need is……”, or assumption that change from a losing situation will correct the outcome. AKA: what can a new coach do?
Don’t forget the grass is always greener and all players play to their past when are over the age of 25.

LOL, Yes, it all gets sorted on the court and scoring more than your opponent always brings wins.

Its astonishing that Deuce can light up the gleague and how this does not translate to the nba even in smaller amounts. what your seeing is he has to produce in other aspects to stay on the court. Maybe if he had frank earlier in his career, and bryant he could have excelled better.

But he didn’t.

Glad Deuce is part of this nice run. Crazy its without Obi and Grimes. This demonstrates how hard chemistry is to predict. Grimes was playing great. Obi both up and down. Love the kid, not sure where we go from here with him.

Deuce… Thibs was correct to not pull him from 3rd string to starter.

Just curious if you are watching the games or commenting based on the stat sheets. GLeague is certainly a world of difference from the NBA so it should not surprise anyone that a rookie who lights it up there would not light it up in the NBA. However - you also have to factor in the role that Deuce is being asked to perform for the Knicks. On Defense he is being asked to defend at the high point of attack, on the perimeter and closely shadow his man (mainly the other team's pg) with occasional switches. On offense in the last 4 games since we have seen higher usage for Deuce - he has taken 11 total shots in ~75 minutes of action. He has been paired significantly with IQ who is running the point. Deuce is being asked to sit on the perimeter, mainly in the corner - more as a wing. Mostly as a decoy and/or relief valve for swing passes. In other words - he's being a good soldier - listening to his coach who has him currently schemed as the 5th option on offense. This is a much different role than the G-League where he is the first or second option being asked to run the offense with the ball in his hands a significant amount of the time.

Watching the kid on the court I have high hopes. From what little I've seen, the kid is tenacious on D which seems to give the team energy, finishes well in limited chances and the moment does not seen too big for him.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:The only thing that matter is wins.

In the big picture of things, winning is all that matters in the end. But it's not the only thing that matters and especially so when you are not a playoff team or have any real shot at either getting to the playoffs or winning a championship.

From a culture perspective, you need to set that goal of "only thing that matter is wins" but realistically it's one of many things that are happening at the same time.

When you get off of that perspective of only winning matters, there is a whole new world out there.

Not really. As a fan on the UK its important to be “right”. Then proclamation when so vindicated to demonstrate proficiency as a fan to see things others don’t. Things like “what we need is……”, or assumption that change from a losing situation will correct the outcome. AKA: what can a new coach do?
Don’t forget the grass is always greener and all players play to their past when are over the age of 25.

LOL, Yes, it all gets sorted on the court and scoring more than your opponent always brings wins.

Its astonishing that Deuce can light up the gleague and how this does not translate to the nba even in smaller amounts. what your seeing is he has to produce in other aspects to stay on the court. Maybe if he had frank earlier in his career, and bryant he could have excelled better.

But he didn’t.

Glad Deuce is part of this nice run. Crazy its without Obi and Grimes. This demonstrates how hard chemistry is to predict. Grimes was playing great. Obi both up and down. Love the kid, not sure where we go from here with him.

Deuce… Thibs was correct to not pull him from 3rd string to starter.

1. What proof do you have to back up this statement?

For me, it’s very simple. Basketball is all about positions correct. That’s why you have five positions and multiple players can play several positions. Question for you.

2. Do you think thibs was correct in replacing Kemba with Burks?

3. When has Burks ever played PG? Please provide historical facts, otherwise the answer is never.

PG depth chart was very clear to me and everybody, including Burks.

4. Do you believe Thibs looks at this roster and said Burks is our 3rd string PG?

PG depth
1. Kemba - Removed
2. Rose - Injured
3. IQ - Combo guard drafted as a SG
4. Duece - combo guard drafted as a PG

So if you decide to remove Kemba, who’s next on the PG depth chart? Now Thibs thinks IQ and Deuce ain’t ready to start, that’s obvious by starting Burks. This is where I believe Thibs made a decision that turned the season south. Because Burks was a risky start mixed in with thibs takes a long time to change his mind so quick, that’s a blessing and a curse. Do you really think deuce was straight trash in practice? But killing in the gleague and instantly impacting in the nba now. Forget his offense, that wasn’t his strong point in college. That was a nice to have. I don’t care if he has more fouls than points. Deuce is a throw back combo guard who’s undersized to play SG full time but strong enough to hold his own in spurts. Those fouls translates into energy that forces your team mates to also bring that energy.

If I could talk to thibs I would ask why didn’t he start IQ instead of Burks? Personally I think he rather have Burks as a starter but can’t sit Fournier huge contract azz. So I get the political or play your big dollar players first strategy. I would too unless they look like trash while we got young defensive energy on the bench?

I agree with thibs on most things but I disagree on his decision to 1. Start Burks and 2. Keep Burks or SL for so long. I don’t care is deuce start or not. But at some point much earlier than now, he should’ve been in the rotation.

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:The only thing that matter is wins.

In the big picture of things, winning is all that matters in the end. But it's not the only thing that matters and especially so when you are not a playoff team or have any real shot at either getting to the playoffs or winning a championship.

From a culture perspective, you need to set that goal of "only thing that matter is wins" but realistically it's one of many things that are happening at the same time.

When you get off of that perspective of only winning matters, there is a whole new world out there.

Not really. As a fan on the UK its important to be “right”. Then proclamation when so vindicated to demonstrate proficiency as a fan to see things others don’t. Things like “what we need is……”, or assumption that change from a losing situation will correct the outcome. AKA: what can a new coach do?
Don’t forget the grass is always greener and all players play to their past when are over the age of 25.

LOL, Yes, it all gets sorted on the court and scoring more than your opponent always brings wins.

Its astonishing that Deuce can light up the gleague and how this does not translate to the nba even in smaller amounts. what your seeing is he has to produce in other aspects to stay on the court. Maybe if he had frank earlier in his career, and bryant he could have excelled better.

But he didn’t.

Glad Deuce is part of this nice run. Crazy its without Obi and Grimes. This demonstrates how hard chemistry is to predict. Grimes was playing great. Obi both up and down. Love the kid, not sure where we go from here with him.

Deuce… Thibs was correct to not pull him from 3rd string to starter.

1. What proof do you have to back up this statement?

For me, it’s very simple. Basketball is all about positions correct. That’s why you have five positions and multiple players can play several positions. Question for you.

2. Do you think thibs was correct in replacing Kemba with Burks?

3. When has Burks ever played PG? Please provide historical facts, otherwise the answer is never.

PG depth chart was very clear to me and everybody, including Burks.

4. Do you believe Thibs looks at this roster and said Burks is our 3rd string PG?

PG depth
1. Kemba - Removed
2. Rose - Injured
3. IQ - Combo guard drafted as a SG
4. Duece - combo guard drafted as a PG

So if you decide to remove Kemba, who’s next on the PG depth chart? Now Thibs thinks IQ and Deuce ain’t ready to start, that’s obvious by starting Burks. This is where I believe Thibs made a decision that turned the season south. Because Burks was a risky start mixed in with thibs takes a long time to change his mind so quick, that’s a blessing and a curse. Do you really think deuce was straight trash in practice? But killing in the gleague and instantly impacting in the nba now. Forget his offense, that wasn’t his strong point in college. That was a nice to have. I don’t care if he has more fouls than points. Deuce is a throw back combo guard who’s undersized to play SG full time but strong enough to hold his own in spurts. Those fouls translates into energy that forces your team mates to also bring that energy.

If I could talk to thibs I would ask why didn’t he start IQ instead of Burks? Personally I think he rather have Burks as a starter but can’t sit Fournier huge contract azz. So I get the political or play your big dollar players first strategy. I would too unless they look like trash while we got young defensive energy on the bench?

I agree with thibs on most things but I disagree on his decision to 1. Start Burks and 2. Keep Burks or SL for so long. I don’t care is deuce start or not. But at some point much earlier than now, he should’ve been in the rotation.

I cannot verify if Burks ever played PG ever in his career.
MY statement is. Other than applying morality to the depthchart as you depicted, I don’t see where MIles has earned the minutes at PG? He is playing mosty off the ball.

From hoopshype.com

Scotto: Have you heard anything on Thibodeau’s future and what the front office is thinking with the direction for this team going into the summer?

Bondy: I did hear what’s been out there, which is William Wesley, Worldwide Wes, has been going around, and it’s not just been to James Dolan, other people have heard this as well from Wes, that Thibodeau is at least partially or mostly to blame for what’s happening right now. I heard specifically, and this was a couple of weeks ago, that Wesley was saying Thibodeau hadn’t been giving the young players a chance and that the team should be better. When you have a high-ranking executive like that talking about the coach in that way, yeah, there’s cause for concern.

To me, that’s the biggest storyline now for the rest of the season. How will this team play for Thibodeau? Will it help or hurt his cause to keep his job?

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:

I cannot verify if Burks ever played PG ever in his career.
MY statement is. Other than applying morality to the depthchart as you depicted, I don’t see where MIles has earned the minutes at PG? He is playing mosty off the ball.

So you can’t confirm if Burks ever played PG, but then you say deuce hasn’t earned the mins at PG? 🤣

It’s not about earning anything. It’s about trust. And for thibs entire career, the knock on him is that he trust his vets over his rooks. Case in point, Burks is our starting PG and never played PG, so he hasn’t earned PG mins either. IQ played PG and deuce was drafted as a PG. 🤦‍♂️ He doesn’t trust rookies over vets and only plays them when he’s forced to play them or have no choice due to injuries.

We doing a trial? “Intent” that important. The rookies play, they doing well, I watch the games and Im enjoying their growth.
OBI and Grimes are hurt, they are yoot. More yoot got to play. Im not defending Burks, Im just not slamming him.
Deuce has not shown to be trusted with games. Knicks are not tanking. Are they?

Unless you attend knick practices, deuce hasn’t shown you anything at the nba level until thibs played him. And that’s my point. Fans see deuce killing the g league and Knicks need a PG. At the very least play deuce while he’s the next up n the depth chart and see how he looks until grimes and rose are back. Nothing I’m saying is rocket science. But what’s clear to me is why thibs hasn’t played deuce. He’s still playing within the team strategy where he’s the 5th option. Other rookies play like they the man from the jump. I still like his impact on the team and can’t wait to see his growth over 2 or 3 yrs from now. Same with sims and grimes. But grimes the only one right now that stands out as a potential starter.