GustavBahler wrote:If this isnt enough for you to believe that KP is skilled enough to be considered a top 30 player, dont know what else to tell you.

As a 21-year-old in 2016-17, Porzingis became one of three players in NBA history, 22 years or younger, to make 100-plus 3-pointers and block 100-plus shots in a season (Dirk Nowitzki, 2000-01; Karl-Anthony Towns, 2016-17 and 2017-18). He was named an All-Star in 2018 but did not play due to injury.

Porzingis has earned Player of the Week honors twice in his career (Eastern Conference POW, Oct. 30 to Nov. 5, 2017; Western Conference POW, Feb. 24 to March 1, 2020). In 2019-20, “The Unicorn” became the fastest player to 400-plus 3-pointers made and 400-plus blocks in NBA history (233 games). He also became one of five players in league history to record at least 4,000 points, 1,500 rebounds, 400 3-pointers made and 400 blocks before his 25th birthday (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tracy McGrady, Towns). Porzingis has produced the only two games with at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks and five 3-pointers made in NBA history (37 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks and five 3s vs. the L.A. Lakers on Dec. 12, 2017; 38 points, 13 boards, five blocks and six 3s at Minnesota on March 1, 2020).

In the history of the NBA there are only seven players who for their career averaged 18+ ppg, 6+ assists per game, shot over 47% fg, 80%+ from the free throw line: Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Chris Paul, Steph Curry. You know who the seventh guy was...Reggie Theus!

So based on your post, we should consider Reggie Theus on the same level as Big O, Jerry West, Magic, Bird, Chris Paul and Steph Curry, right? Basically what you presented is used car salesman data. Just because technically it's true doesn't make it relevant or in its proper context.

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If this isnt enough for you to believe that KP is skilled enough to be considered a top 30 player, dont know what else to tell you.

As a 21-year-old in 2016-17, Porzingis became one of three players in NBA history, 22 years or younger, to make 100-plus 3-pointers and block 100-plus shots in a season (Dirk Nowitzki, 2000-01; Karl-Anthony Towns, 2016-17 and 2017-18). He was named an All-Star in 2018 but did not play due to injury.

Porzingis has earned Player of the Week honors twice in his career (Eastern Conference POW, Oct. 30 to Nov. 5, 2017; Western Conference POW, Feb. 24 to March 1, 2020). In 2019-20, “The Unicorn” became the fastest player to 400-plus 3-pointers made and 400-plus blocks in NBA history (233 games). He also became one of five players in league history to record at least 4,000 points, 1,500 rebounds, 400 3-pointers made and 400 blocks before his 25th birthday (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tracy McGrady, Towns). Porzingis has produced the only two games with at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks and five 3-pointers made in NBA history (37 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks and five 3s vs. the L.A. Lakers on Dec. 12, 2017; 38 points, 13 boards, five blocks and six 3s at Minnesota on March 1, 2020).

Let me give you an example of how meaningless those type of stats are. I calculated this last year so I don't know if it still applies to this year and I'm trying to do this off of memory so forgive me if I'm off.

In the history of the NBA there are only seven players who for their career averaged 18+ ppg, 6+ assists per game, shot over 47% fg, 80%+ from the free throw line: Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Chris Paul, Steph Curry. You know who the seventh guy was...Reggie Theus!

So based on your post, we should consider Reggie Theus on the same level as Big O, Jerry West, Magic, Bird, Chris Paul and Steph Curry, right? Basically what you presented is used car salesman data. Just because technically it's true doesn't make it relevant or in its proper context.

Pure sophistry. The stats I cited were reached by age 25. They didnt have an entire career to hit those numbers. Reggie Theus wasnt on the level of the players you cited but he was one of the better shooters in the league, at the time.

Based on my post, I suggested KP was a top 30 player. YOU are falsely claiming I said he should be ranked much higher. KP is putting up numbers by the age of 25, across 4 major categories which only a few future HOFers could equal.

If it was so easy to do, a lot more players would have managed those milestones.

It demonstrates that KP can produce on an elite level, when he's healthy. Good enough to be ranked in the top 30 best players in the league by their skillset.

Some of you have a lot invested in maintaining that KP is a scrub.

ramtour420 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If this isnt enough for you to believe that KP is skilled enough to be considered a top 30 player, dont know what else to tell you.

As a 21-year-old in 2016-17, Porzingis became one of three players in NBA history, 22 years or younger, to make 100-plus 3-pointers and block 100-plus shots in a season (Dirk Nowitzki, 2000-01; Karl-Anthony Towns, 2016-17 and 2017-18). He was named an All-Star in 2018 but did not play due to injury.

Porzingis has earned Player of the Week honors twice in his career (Eastern Conference POW, Oct. 30 to Nov. 5, 2017; Western Conference POW, Feb. 24 to March 1, 2020). In 2019-20, “The Unicorn” became the fastest player to 400-plus 3-pointers made and 400-plus blocks in NBA history (233 games). He also became one of five players in league history to record at least 4,000 points, 1,500 rebounds, 400 3-pointers made and 400 blocks before his 25th birthday (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tracy McGrady, Towns). Porzingis has produced the only two games with at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks and five 3-pointers made in NBA history (37 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks and five 3s vs. the L.A. Lakers on Dec. 12, 2017; 38 points, 13 boards, five blocks and six 3s at Minnesota on March 1, 2020).

Let me give you an example of how meaningless those type of stats are. I calculated this last year so I don't know if it still applies to this year and I'm trying to do this off of memory so forgive me if I'm off.

In the history of the NBA there are only seven players who for their career averaged 18+ ppg, 6+ assists per game, shot over 47% fg, 80%+ from the free throw line: Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Chris Paul, Steph Curry. You know who the seventh guy was...Reggie Theus!

So based on your post, we should consider Reggie Theus on the same level as Big O, Jerry West, Magic, Bird, Chris Paul and Steph Curry, right? Basically what you presented is used car salesman data. Just because technically it's true doesn't make it relevant or in its proper context.

Pure sophistry. The stats I cited were reached by age 25. They didnt have an entire career to hit those numbers. Reggie Theus wasnt on the level of the players you cited but he was one of the better shooters in the league, at the time.

Based on my post, I suggested KP was a top 30 player. YOU are falsely claiming I said he should be ranked much higher. KP is putting up numbers by the age of 25, across 4 major categories which only a few future HOFers could equal.

If it was so easy to do, a lot more players would have managed those milestones.

It demonstrates that KP can produce on an elite level, when he's healthy. Good enough to be ranked in the top 30 best players in the league by their skillset.

Some of you have a lot invested in maintaining that KP is a scrub.

Noone called him a scrub. Just a low efficiency chucker with a historically low rebound rate for a big man who is also an average overall defender but can get you a block or 2 sometimes. To say that a player with said deficiencies has top 30 skills is silly. After his injuries you really should use the past tense to describe his skills.

Every player on that list (including KP) has shown they can go on stretches where they are performing like a top ten player. Efficiently as well. For whatver reason they cant sustain it.

Those numbers, those games, demonstrate an ability to play at a high level for more than a game or two. Calling him names doesnt change that. Hard to be efficient when you're always working yourself back into game shape. Doesnt mean you cant see that KP has skills to be considered a top 30 player.

Surprised there is so much pushback.

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If this isnt enough for you to believe that KP is skilled enough to be considered a top 30 player, dont know what else to tell you.

As a 21-year-old in 2016-17, Porzingis became one of three players in NBA history, 22 years or younger, to make 100-plus 3-pointers and block 100-plus shots in a season (Dirk Nowitzki, 2000-01; Karl-Anthony Towns, 2016-17 and 2017-18). He was named an All-Star in 2018 but did not play due to injury.

Porzingis has earned Player of the Week honors twice in his career (Eastern Conference POW, Oct. 30 to Nov. 5, 2017; Western Conference POW, Feb. 24 to March 1, 2020). In 2019-20, “The Unicorn” became the fastest player to 400-plus 3-pointers made and 400-plus blocks in NBA history (233 games). He also became one of five players in league history to record at least 4,000 points, 1,500 rebounds, 400 3-pointers made and 400 blocks before his 25th birthday (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tracy McGrady, Towns). Porzingis has produced the only two games with at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks and five 3-pointers made in NBA history (37 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks and five 3s vs. the L.A. Lakers on Dec. 12, 2017; 38 points, 13 boards, five blocks and six 3s at Minnesota on March 1, 2020).

Let me give you an example of how meaningless those type of stats are. I calculated this last year so I don't know if it still applies to this year and I'm trying to do this off of memory so forgive me if I'm off.

In the history of the NBA there are only seven players who for their career averaged 18+ ppg, 6+ assists per game, shot over 47% fg, 80%+ from the free throw line: Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Chris Paul, Steph Curry. You know who the seventh guy was...Reggie Theus!

So based on your post, we should consider Reggie Theus on the same level as Big O, Jerry West, Magic, Bird, Chris Paul and Steph Curry, right? Basically what you presented is used car salesman data. Just because technically it's true doesn't make it relevant or in its proper context.

Pure sophistry. The stats I cited were reached by age 25. They didnt have an entire career to hit those numbers. Reggie Theus wasnt on the level of the players you cited but he was one of the better shooters in the league, at the time.

Based on my post, I suggested KP was a top 30 player. YOU are falsely claiming I said he should be ranked much higher. KP is putting up numbers by the age of 25, across 4 major categories which only a few future HOFers could equal.

If it was so easy to do, a lot more players would have managed those milestones.

It demonstrates that KP can produce on an elite level, when he's healthy. Good enough to be ranked in the top 30 best players in the league by their skillset.

Some of you have a lot invested in maintaining that KP is a scrub.

BTW, you did say KP was in the top 20s, which I assume means somewhere between 20-29.

wargames wrote:KP is injury prone.

Mills was right to trade him before we had to pay him. Also people say we could have got more..... sure except KP was coming of a major injury and not even going to play next year.

Also people mention how DSJ was such a bad piece, but in hindsight the Mavs roster at that time was crap especially with their draft picks. I don’t know who was the piece we could have used at that time.

Hindsight is 20-20, obviously. But I do wonder who or what we would have landed had we done our due-diligence and explored other options rather than zeroing-in on Dallas.

Philc1 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

wargames wrote:KP is injury prone.

Mills was right to trade him before we had to pay him. Also people say we could have got more..... sure except KP was coming of a major injury and not even going to play next year.

Also people mention how DSJ was such a bad piece, but in hindsight the Mavs roster at that time was crap especially with their draft picks. I don’t know who was the piece we could have used at that time.

Hindsight is 20-20, obviously. But I do wonder who or what we would have landed had we done our due-diligence and explored other options rather than zeroing-in on Dallas.

That’s what Phil was trying to do before Dolan overruled him after listening to ignorant clowns in the media

Holy crap, give it a rest already. Even Phil didn't know what Phil was trying to do.

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

wargames wrote:KP is injury prone.

Mills was right to trade him before we had to pay him. Also people say we could have got more..... sure except KP was coming of a major injury and not even going to play next year.

Also people mention how DSJ was such a bad piece, but in hindsight the Mavs roster at that time was crap especially with their draft picks. I don’t know who was the piece we could have used at that time.

Hindsight is 20-20, obviously. But I do wonder who or what we would have landed had we done our due-diligence and explored other options rather than zeroing-in on Dallas.

That’s what Phil was trying to do before Dolan overruled him after listening to ignorant clowns in the media

Holy crap, give it a rest already. Even Phil didn't know what Phil was trying to do.

You maybe right. But Phil was long on the record of dissing KP about his body mechanics, small ass, and potentially injury prone but he was the obvious pick. Read that Little House Gaines had to talk him into it. Its possible it was not a thought he’d fall to us at 4. We did better with KP then Oka4. D’angelo Russell might not have made it thru the crush until he matured.
That said Phil was then raging mad when KP missed his exit meeting. Phil had his coaching hat on perhaps and that pissed him off. Then the rumors started about him wanting him gone, and they he got fired. I know JROD, Phil and the world<All things Melo but this was a real thing. Not to say Phil did a good job and this and only this defines him. We know he dissed Melo and thats never a forgivable sin, but LIke Isiah before him not all they did was god awful. In time even Mills looks pretty smart not for his part in signing Randle.
In the end Knicks making good decisions and for a change they are executing them well.

So that's how it works? Revisionist history until EVERYONE wins a NALOD "thanks for playing" FO award? Even IT? If you search long enough, maybe one can find some good things Derek Fisher did? Maybe Anucha and get in the truck wasn't all that bad?

This quick article, even though critical of Melo, makes a point for why Phil sucked here -- ego over thinking things throgh:

In the end, like Tony Soprano, the city had enough of Jackson’s California bull****. He was dismissed as team president on June 27th, 2017. The Zen Master had gone from Hall of Fame to a general laughing stock.

Jackson recently appeared on a podcast with former player Coby Karl discussing the Knicks and the ex-New York executive’s tenure. He said, “Carmelo, I think, wanted to be a leader, but I don’t think he completely knew how to be a leader as a player. And I think that the strength of his personality was intimidating to some of the coaches that were asked to coach the team.” This is not a slanderous quote, it is something that makes sense, but it again transfers blame to ‘Melo for a team that was not well thought out, and should not have run the Triangle.

It reminds me of Jerry Krause—the need to have something over the players. The need to have it done your way or you don’t think you’ll get enough credit. That’s not why you should become a general manager, though.

Jackson recently appeared on a podcast with former player Coby Karl discussing the Knicks and the ex-New York executive’s tenure. He said, “Carmelo, I think, wanted to be a leader, but I don’t think he completely knew how to be a leader as a player. And I think that the strength of his personality was intimidating to some of the coaches that were asked to coach the team.” This is not a slanderous quote, it is something that makes sense, but it again transfers blame to ‘Melo for a team that was not well thought out, and should not have run the Triangle.

I don't disagree with any of this. I have said it 100 times that Melo for the most part held up his end and the team around him was not build to succeed. At the same time Melo wanted back, had sold himself as one that would sacrifice for the team, obviously did not buy into the triangle or give it enough time and we all know the rest. The media and fans swarm anti Phil vs. Melo was in play.
Revisiting the past we get the benefit of hindsight. The record speaks for itself and that's all that matters. Im not defending Phil, Im revisiting with some objectivity. Phils record is indefensible. But he did not mortgage the future and his instincts for KP were correct. That's all. Not saying he should not have been fired.
WE can say that Mills/Perry signing of Randle was pretty darn good. Not saying Mills should not have been fired. Im stoked Leon and co. are hear. But im not some narrow fanboy who is oblivious to the facts.
To a small extent (SMALL!) Drose play on the big stage does validate Phil just a bit. Want to blame the triangle for all our woes then, Melo's play, Drose mental and physical condition? OK. Noah? Bad move. That he could not even hold his own to RoPez was awful.
Was the blog about Phil entirely wrong? I suppose I do need to listen to interview and grab the full context than comment on from it. Im not.
Phil made a lot of blunders here. His record defines his tenure. Not Nalod.

I don’t hold the heavy hate for KP anymore because we are doing just fine without him. Dallas seems to do fine without him.

Dallas banked on KP returning to form and he has not. He is not the springy bouncy 7'3 shooter they thought they were trading for. He's still long and has unicorn moments but he moves like a robot that needs oil. He's young and maybe he gets that spring back. Maybe his body simply isnt built for NBA basketball. Sadly we have seen that in past with some special talents... their bodies just cant take it.

There was an "ideal" situation where we kept KP and signed Randle, but honestly now it isnt because we would have given KP his max extension and been stuck. I much prefer having RJ/Randle + some good young pieces and $70mm in cap space vs. being tied to KP's max

Is what it is. KP is history and easy to dislike. My only rooting against interest is we own their draft pick