GustavBahler wrote:The only way this trade works down the road IMO is if Rose is cut loose after this season, regardless of how well he plays. No max contract.

None of us knows what Phil will do with Rose. I am concerned that there is even a possibility that Rose will be a Knick beyond next season. We have to wait a year to find out.

This trade will pay dividends if Phil can bring some A-list talent. If he can't it will be a repeat of 2010. Thats what potentially bothers me about this trade. Cap room is great, but what if Phil throws a party and noone shows up? Ive heard about how Rose will draw other big names, Im pretty sure those big names have seen Rose play the last 4 years. If anyone is going to draw stars its KP.

A report said that Rose is excited about coming to NYC, which is good, but the report also said that Rose wants the spotlight. If this is true, Rose better understand that the spotlight wont belong to Rose and his historically high usage rate, it belongs to Porzingis.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only way this trade works down the road IMO is if Rose is cut loose after this season, regardless of how well he plays. No max contract.

None of us knows what Phil will do with Rose. I am concerned that there is even a possibility that Rose will be a Knick beyond next season. We have to wait a year to find out.

This trade will pay dividends if Phil can bring some A-list talent. If he can't it will be a repeat of 2010. Thats what potentially bothers me about this trade. Cap room is great, but what if Phil throws a party and noone shows up? Ive heard about how Rose will draw other big names, Im pretty sure those big names have seen Rose play the last 4 years. If anyone is going to draw stars its KP.

A report said that Rose is excited about coming to NYC, which is good, but the report also said that Rose wants the spotlight. If this is true, Rose better understand that the spotlight wont belong to Rose and his historically high usage rate, it belongs to Porzingis.

the only way? Its impossible at 27 Rose is ever a good player again?

nothing is impossible just (very) not probable.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only way this trade works down the road IMO is if Rose is cut loose after this season, regardless of how well he plays. No max contract.

None of us knows what Phil will do with Rose. I am concerned that there is even a possibility that Rose will be a Knick beyond next season. We have to wait a year to find out.

This trade will pay dividends if Phil can bring some A-list talent. If he can't it will be a repeat of 2010. Thats what potentially bothers me about this trade. Cap room is great, but what if Phil throws a party and noone shows up? Ive heard about how Rose will draw other big names, Im pretty sure those big names have seen Rose play the last 4 years. If anyone is going to draw stars its KP.

A report said that Rose is excited about coming to NYC, which is good, but the report also said that Rose wants the spotlight. If this is true, Rose better understand that the spotlight wont belong to Rose and his historically high usage rate, it belongs to Porzingis.

the only way? Its impossible at 27 Rose is ever a good player again?

nothing is impossible just (very) not probable.

This is certainly a gamble.

Here would be my odds on Rose (as a degenerate gambler).

MVP form: 1000-1
All star form: 20-1 (20ppg, 6assists, plays 72 games, impact player)
Sub all star but good: 3-1 (15ppg, 5 assists, shoots well, 70 games, fits well, helps as 3rd option)
Decent starter: even money (15ppg, 5 assists, not very EF%, has some good games and helps, averages out some of those 4-14 shooting nights)

He could get hurt and we only see him for 30ish games and he stinks: 2-1 (I concede there is a good shot this yields nothing)

nyk4ever wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The best thing to come from this trade would be if it tricks Batum into coming. I would say Durant but he plays with a better and healthy version of Rose, Westbrook.

For all we know there is already an agent promise in place with players x,y or z. Maybe somehow this makes more sense tomorrow? Its not a deal I make, I dont like it but the Bargs trade? This is a gamble for sure but again... Knick fans are the only ones saying this deal is bad

Unless Grant is going to be an up and coming NBA starter....I don't see the gamble. If anything, I think Chicago could've gotten s better deal. Rolo and Grant are replaceable. Jose shouldn't be in the league. Rolo has reached his peak....I don't see the gamble.

Rolo played 82 games last year, is 28, has a cap friendly contract, protects the rim, is a good P&R player and plays center. Losing him for a 1 year rental along with Grant who I regard as still a good prospect is absolutely a setback if you are building a team.

Is that a setback that can be overcome? Certainly.. but don't pretend its nothing. Rose has a few good months of hoops in 4 years to show for. I am very glad we aren't looking for him to carry the team... as a 3rd or 4th option he could very good. He could also be nothing and play 35 games next year. We didn't trade picks or all stars but we did give up assets.

pretty fair however, you are still way overestimated rose, a guy who has been one of the worst players in the league over the last few years.

And, its not like he makes it up with Dee.

one of the worst players in the league? you metrics guys are lost.

yea so was Kyrie, Shumpert and JR. Last I checked they outplayed metric prototypes in Curry & Thompson and won the championship

GustavBahler wrote:The only way this trade works down the road IMO is if Rose is cut loose after this season, regardless of how well he plays. No max contract.

None of us knows what Phil will do with Rose. I am concerned that there is even a possibility that Rose will be a Knick beyond next season. We have to wait a year to find out.

This trade will pay dividends if Phil can bring some A-list talent. If he can't it will be a repeat of 2010. Thats what potentially bothers me about this trade. Cap room is great, but what if Phil throws a party and noone shows up? Ive heard about how Rose will draw other big names, Im pretty sure those big names have seen Rose play the last 4 years. If anyone is going to draw stars its KP.

A report said that Rose is excited about coming to NYC, which is good, but the report also said that Rose wants the spotlight. If this is true, Rose better understand that the spotlight wont belong to Rose and his historically high usage rate, it belongs to Porzingis.

I'm hoping that meant playing in the bright lights and not have just having all the lights on the Big Kahuna only

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only way this trade works down the road IMO is if Rose is cut loose after this season, regardless of how well he plays. No max contract.

None of us knows what Phil will do with Rose. I am concerned that there is even a possibility that Rose will be a Knick beyond next season. We have to wait a year to find out.

This trade will pay dividends if Phil can bring some A-list talent. If he can't it will be a repeat of 2010. Thats what potentially bothers me about this trade. Cap room is great, but what if Phil throws a party and noone shows up? Ive heard about how Rose will draw other big names, Im pretty sure those big names have seen Rose play the last 4 years. If anyone is going to draw stars its KP.

A report said that Rose is excited about coming to NYC, which is good, but the report also said that Rose wants the spotlight. If this is true, Rose better understand that the spotlight wont belong to Rose and his historically high usage rate, it belongs to Porzingis.

the only way? Its impossible at 27 Rose is ever a good player again?

nothing is impossible just (very) not probable.

Agree... Grant Hill and Livingston are guys who come to mind as being good players post multiple years of being labeled "done."

This is certainly a gamble.

Here would be my odds on Rose (as a degenerate gambler).

MVP form: 1000-1
All star form: 20-1 (20ppg, 6assists, plays 72 games, impact player)
Sub all star but good: 3-1 (15ppg, 5 assists, shoots well, 70 games, fits well, helps as 3rd option)
Decent starter: even money (15ppg, 5 assists, not very EF%, has some good games and helps, averages out some of those 4-14 shooting nights)

He could get hurt and we only see him for 30ish games and he stinks: 2-1 (I concede there is a good shot this yields nothing)

A more consistent JR Smith.

Despite all the antics we were a better team when JR played well. I expect the same from Rose minus the extreme inconsistencies. Like JR doing 18 & 6 one week then shooting 2 for 11 the next week

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only way this trade works down the road IMO is if Rose is cut loose after this season, regardless of how well he plays. No max contract.

None of us knows what Phil will do with Rose. I am concerned that there is even a possibility that Rose will be a Knick beyond next season. We have to wait a year to find out.

This trade will pay dividends if Phil can bring some A-list talent. If he can't it will be a repeat of 2010. Thats what potentially bothers me about this trade. Cap room is great, but what if Phil throws a party and noone shows up? Ive heard about how Rose will draw other big names, Im pretty sure those big names have seen Rose play the last 4 years. If anyone is going to draw stars its KP.

A report said that Rose is excited about coming to NYC, which is good, but the report also said that Rose wants the spotlight. If this is true, Rose better understand that the spotlight wont belong to Rose and his historically high usage rate, it belongs to Porzingis.

the only way? Its impossible at 27 Rose is ever a good player again?

No way I want to see the Knicks take the risk. I have seen nothing from Rose since his MVP year in his production or attitude, that would make me want to keep him past this upcoming season.

Why would you want to pay the max, go into "battle", with someone who has one foot out the door already? You give him the max and Rose will do exactly what he said he would, put his retirement plans first. Pass

I know the quote you are talking about. I don't know the context of it but there is nothing in Rose's career that has indicated he puts anything but BB first. Guy has a rep for being one of the hardest working guys out there. Focusing on that one quote is disingenuous. Go find one Bulls fan who says that Rose had any other priority. I believe that quote was in response to not playing during an injury and the guy was like "I want to be able to walk when my career is over."

This is not be defending or selling Rose. Just asking you to more honest. Harping on that quote over and over is disingenuous. He may be hurt. He may not last. He may break down. He may be damaged goods. He may be looking to get paid. He's not a guy whos in the NBA for the paycheck. Probably only Lebron had more pressure playing for his hometown than Rose. Don't talk to me, ask a Bulls fan

Rose was well enough to dunk repeatedly in front of his teammates during warmups in the playoffs, while some teammates played so hard they wound up in the hospital.

Of course that shouldnt be the bar. The bar should have been if you can dunk the basketball effortlessly, you should be there for your teammates. At the very least not show the world that you are that far along in your rehab but choose not to play.

Throw in the quote, and that tells me all I need to know about Rose's willingness to be there for his teammates. He spelled it out in black and white. His post playing career comes first. Even his college coach Calipari said that it was a stupid thing to say. I have yet to hear Rose take that back.

Lets say Rose is playing well next season, well enough to turn heads, I would still not offer him max years. 2-3 years, not the max. There has to be an out. Rose gets max dollars, max years, and is back to missing games due to injury, the Knicks are f'ed. If we already didn't have a possible franchise player in Porzingis, I might be more willing to take the risk. Its a risk the Knicks can afford to pass on now, we have KP. If Rose wants max years, let him walk.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only way this trade works down the road IMO is if Rose is cut loose after this season, regardless of how well he plays. No max contract.

None of us knows what Phil will do with Rose. I am concerned that there is even a possibility that Rose will be a Knick beyond next season. We have to wait a year to find out.

This trade will pay dividends if Phil can bring some A-list talent. If he can't it will be a repeat of 2010. Thats what potentially bothers me about this trade. Cap room is great, but what if Phil throws a party and noone shows up? Ive heard about how Rose will draw other big names, Im pretty sure those big names have seen Rose play the last 4 years. If anyone is going to draw stars its KP.

A report said that Rose is excited about coming to NYC, which is good, but the report also said that Rose wants the spotlight. If this is true, Rose better understand that the spotlight wont belong to Rose and his historically high usage rate, it belongs to Porzingis.

the only way? Its impossible at 27 Rose is ever a good player again?

No way I want to see the Knicks take the risk. I have seen nothing from Rose since his MVP year in his production or attitude, that would make me want to keep him past this upcoming season.

Why would you want to pay the max, go into "battle", with someone who has one foot out the door already? You give him the max and Rose will do exactly what he said he would, put his retirement plans first. Pass

I know the quote you are talking about. I don't know the context of it but there is nothing in Rose's career that has indicated he puts anything but BB first. Guy has a rep for being one of the hardest working guys out there. Focusing on that one quote is disingenuous. Go find one Bulls fan who says that Rose had any other priority. I believe that quote was in response to not playing during an injury and the guy was like "I want to be able to walk when my career is over."

This is not be defending or selling Rose. Just asking you to more honest. Harping on that quote over and over is disingenuous. He may be hurt. He may not last. He may break down. He may be damaged goods. He may be looking to get paid. He's not a guy whos in the NBA for the paycheck. Probably only Lebron had more pressure playing for his hometown than Rose. Don't talk to me, ask a Bulls fan

Rose was well enough to dunk repeatedly in front of his teammates during warmups in the playoffs, while some teammates played so hard they wound up in the hospital.

Of course that shouldnt be the bar. The bar should have been if you can dunk the basketball effortlessly, you should be there for your teammates. At the very least not show the world that you are that far along in your rehab but choose not to play.

Throw in the quote, and that tells me all I need to know about Rose's willingness to be there for his teammates. He spelled it out in black and white. His post playing career comes first. Even his college coach Calipari said that it was a stupid thing to say. I have yet to hear Rose take that back.

Lets say Rose is playing well next season, well enough to turn heads, I would still not offer him max years. 2-3 years, not the max. There has to be an out. Rose gets max dollars, max years, and is back to missing games due to injury, the Knicks are f'ed. If we already didn't have a possible franchise player in Porzingis, I might be more willing to take the risk. Its a risk the Knicks can afford to pass on now, we have KP. If Rose wants max years, let him walk.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:The only way this trade works down the road IMO is if Rose is cut loose after this season, regardless of how well he plays. No max contract.

None of us knows what Phil will do with Rose. I am concerned that there is even a possibility that Rose will be a Knick beyond next season. We have to wait a year to find out.

This trade will pay dividends if Phil can bring some A-list talent. If he can't it will be a repeat of 2010. Thats what potentially bothers me about this trade. Cap room is great, but what if Phil throws a party and noone shows up? Ive heard about how Rose will draw other big names, Im pretty sure those big names have seen Rose play the last 4 years. If anyone is going to draw stars its KP.

A report said that Rose is excited about coming to NYC, which is good, but the report also said that Rose wants the spotlight. If this is true, Rose better understand that the spotlight wont belong to Rose and his historically high usage rate, it belongs to Porzingis.

the only way? Its impossible at 27 Rose is ever a good player again?

No way I want to see the Knicks take the risk. I have seen nothing from Rose since his MVP year in his production or attitude, that would make me want to keep him past this upcoming season.

Why would you want to pay the max, go into "battle", with someone who has one foot out the door already? You give him the max and Rose will do exactly what he said he would, put his retirement plans first. Pass

I know the quote you are talking about. I don't know the context of it but there is nothing in Rose's career that has indicated he puts anything but BB first. Guy has a rep for being one of the hardest working guys out there. Focusing on that one quote is disingenuous. Go find one Bulls fan who says that Rose had any other priority. I believe that quote was in response to not playing during an injury and the guy was like "I want to be able to walk when my career is over."

This is not be defending or selling Rose. Just asking you to more honest. Harping on that quote over and over is disingenuous. He may be hurt. He may not last. He may break down. He may be damaged goods. He may be looking to get paid. He's not a guy whos in the NBA for the paycheck. Probably only Lebron had more pressure playing for his hometown than Rose. Don't talk to me, ask a Bulls fan

Rose was well enough to dunk repeatedly in front of his teammates during warmups in the playoffs, while some teammates played so hard they wound up in the hospital.

Of course that shouldnt be the bar. The bar should have been if you can dunk the basketball effortlessly, you should be there for your teammates. At the very least not show the world that you are that far along in your rehab but choose not to play.

Throw in the quote, and that tells me all I need to know about Rose's willingness to be there for his teammates. He spelled it out in black and white. His post playing career comes first. Even his college coach Calipari said that it was a stupid thing to say. I have yet to hear Rose take that back.

Lets say Rose is playing well next season, well enough to turn heads, I would still not offer him max years. 2-3 years, not the max. There has to be an out. Rose gets max dollars, max years, and is back to missing games due to injury, the Knicks are f'ed. If we already didn't have a possible franchise player in Porzingis, I might be more willing to take the risk. Its a risk the Knicks can afford to pass on now, we have KP. If Rose wants max years, let him walk.

it was a 100% a dumb thing to say.

There is a LOT of time between now and next summer. We are not hand tied because of Rose. If he plays well we have decisions to make. If he doesn't its easy.

I don't expect us to get Durant, so I will keep the Knick rainblows to a minimum. But lets pick a random big fish... lets say we max out Whiteside. Holiday is at the very worst a good defensive player. Lets say Rose plays well and we lose to the Cavs in the conf finals with a starting lineup of Whiteside/KP/Melo/Holiday/Rose. Than suddenly the Knicks are in the drivers seat and its a great choice to have. If we cant lure Curry or Westbrook you just bring Rose back.

We didn't give up picks or a kings ransom that should have us feeling like we must resign him (as we did with Melo). Knicks will be OK either way.

Point is either way we have options. He's got a great rep.. lets see how it plays out.

I don't doubt that Rose has close friends on his old team. I remember Noah vigorously coming to his defense when Rose was sitting out the playoffs.

Melo and JR Smith are good friends, Melo knows firsthand all the things JR did to throw a wrench in the Knicks playoff hopes. Friends sometimes overlook questionable behavior because their friends. As a fan, who wants to see this team succeed, I have a different agenda.

I agree we have options, as long as Phil doesn't get desperate, we should be ok.