WaltLongmire wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:Its always good to have a new bumpable post that I can bookmark
javascript:add_forum_code('bold');

So, what is your opinion?

I stated my opinion ad nauseum in the NBA game thread yesterday. I will copy my post in here a bit later.

Hinkie is extremely polarizing, there are those who despise him and those who are enamored by what he is doing (many of them geeks) and are watching closely to see what will be the outcome. I am one of those who are watching them closely. I could care less about philly, never have. I find this quite intriguing. I followed Morey the same way and love that he is doing a lot of experimenting, especially with his D-league team.
10 years ago, 95 percent of NBA fans (and teams) would have said that advanced analytics in bball was stupid. Today, 95% have jump on the bandwagon. I think that Hinkie is testing waters that nobody dared to test. Is he flailing a bit? Perhaps he is, but he has also pulled off some stunners. And he is also extremely data driven (which I really like).
I don't care if this takes a number of years, perhaps because I am not a philly fan. I am glad that this is being done even it is experimental. Its fascinating.
Chucking up 40 threes a game maybe considered insane too but I would love to see it tried (morey is testing this in the d-league). Who would have thought that we would be where we are now with the 3 point attempt rate? Everyone thought that it was stupid ... they were all wrong.
Hinkie is running a controversial experiment. Many think it is brilliant and many think that it is insane. Perhaps its a little of both ... lets see how it plays out.

thats my quote.

Hinkie did some good things but he also seemed like a wierdo. At least he left the next guy in good shape.

He left them with options, but none of the players he drafted over the last few years have value relative to their respective draft position, so when you really think about it, literally anyone could have done what he did with similar or better results.

Yup...he has yet to really it a home run with one of his high draft picks

As it stands now, they might have 4 (5?) #1's in the 2016 draft, which by all accounts is a weak draft, but if they can get an Ingram as well as Heid or Murry, they still might come out well in this draft.

Saric, who by all accounts I've read is a fine player, has still not come over...wonder what he thinks of the Sixers as he watches them from overseas.

Noel has not developed as some thought he would...

OK4 has his own issues, but has a lot of potential, although he and Noel might not be able to coexist in the same offense...

Embiid has never been on the court, and if he does make it back all the way (and if remains healthy- a very big "if"),he and OK4 will not be able to play in the same lineup, and both he and OK4 have "trade baggage" which will mean the Sixers might not get full value back for them. It would take at least a year of good health for me to accept Embiid in a trade if I was another GM.

Team has a lot of options, but there are many problems that could still pop up.

I'm not sure at this point if we can say Ok4 has a lot of potential. He should be a very good NBA scorer, but will struggle in other areas too much to be elite. He is a star on the right team, but would need a Ibaka, Porzingis, Draymond type player next to him at the 4 in order for it to work. Similar to Melo, you need the right players next to him in order to build around him. But unlike Melo, i don't think you can just plug him in. His lack of versatility really limits him, especially in today's NBA.

Even though Hinkie did not have success drafting, he passed up guys like KP, Giannis, and LaVine. Now i get that hindsight is 20-20, but these are players that management should have identified as high-risk, but high-potential, which is what Hinkie priding himself on, and where he fell short.

Knixkik wrote:Even though Hinkie did not have success drafting, he passed up guys like KP, Giannis, and LaVine. Now i get that hindsight is 20-20, but these are players that management should have identified as high-risk, but high-potential, which is what Hinkie priding himself on, and where he fell short.

among other realities of being a not so good GM IMHO, I think this nails it.

callmened wrote:my thoughts on sam hinkie:

- courageous smart dude who tried to help his team thru the draft. fine but he never drafted well
- in doing so he made a mockery of the NBA and a great bball city by tanking
- probably deserved to finish what he started BUT who was to say that this wouldnt go on forever
- i have no problem building thru the draft, my beef is him being cheap by not spending on players
- im not mad he is leaving but its concerning that hes being replaced by colangelo's son - i hate nepotism

Overall = he did his job by putting them in a great position to win. by taking an extreme approach he put his rep (and coach brown's rep) on the line and he paid for it. unfortunately, someone else will enjoy the fruits of his labor

PS = this should scare the HELL out of the knicks. not only have the sixers accumulated good young, cheap talent but they also have over $70 in cap space. they can outbid anyone we go after (i.e jennings, bazemore etc). Free agents always go where the money is. now the stigman of losing is GONE once hinkie left

Seems obvious that Hinkie was unable to put together a roster capable winning as a team- I would not have trusted him to make wise choices with all the picks Philly had, either.

You say he mocked the NBA and the Sixers' fans...well the powers that be in the NBA saw this, and I expect that pressure was put on the owners of the Sixers to do something to address the embarrassment Hinkie had created for the franchise and the league.

If the talent in the 2016 draft was equal to that of 2015, the Sixers would be in position to really move up in terms of having a quality roster, but this does not seem to be true. There are still a number of good players available, and I think the Sixers' brass finally realized that they did not want Hinkie doing the drafting.

Lots of pressure on Bryan Colangelo now, though.

callmened wrote:my thoughts on sam hinkie:

- courageous smart dude who tried to help his team thru the draft. fine but he never drafted well
- in doing so he made a mockery of the NBA and a great bball city by tanking
- probably deserved to finish what he started BUT who was to say that this wouldnt go on forever
- i have no problem building thru the draft, my beef is him being cheap by not spending on players
- im not mad he is leaving but its concerning that hes being replaced by colangelo's son - i hate nepotism

Overall = he did his job by putting them in a great position to win. by taking an extreme approach he put his rep (and coach brown's rep) on the line and he paid for it. unfortunately, someone else will enjoy the fruits of his labor

PS = this should scare the HELL out of the knicks. not only have the sixers accumulated good young, cheap talent but they also have over $70 in cap space. they can outbid anyone we go after (i.e jennings, bazemore etc). Free agents always go where the money is. now the stigman of losing is GONE once hinkie left

well said.

newyorknewyork wrote:Y wasn't he able to find high win share gems from around the league to build a winning team while also stockpiling assets for the future?

Trading MCW was fine, but his value was huge at the time. They could have gotten a really good player back.

Any GM could do what Hinkie did if they don't have to show results in the win column. But since most Gms know they need to also have results they don't.

high win share guys are expensive and most GM's are not as dumb as fans and look for high metric guys.

MCW was robbery! Could not dream of getting more. Most GM's realized what MCW was and is.

Gm's don't have the stomach to do what he did or the brains to fuk with the cap like he did.

Some of his moves like Javhale were gems ... not sure he got basketball though. Great guy to work for an organization but probably not a good eye test GM.

newyorknewyork wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Y wasn't he able to find high win share gems from around the league to build a winning team while also stockpiling assets for the future?

Trading MCW was fine, but his value was huge at the time. They could have gotten a really good player back.

Any GM could do what Hinkie did if they don't have to show results in the win column. But since most Gms know they need to also have results they don't.

high win share guys are expensive and most GM's are not as dumb as fans and look for high metric guys.

MCW was robbery! Could not dream of getting more. Most GM's realized what MCW was and is.

Gm's don't have the stomach to do what he did or the brains to fuk with the cap like he did.

Some of his moves like Javhale were gems ... not sure he got basketball though. Great guy to work for an organization but probably not a good eye test GM.

Didn't need high metric guys just some metric gems. Not talking a out Steph Curry level but at least one player on the roster that he is building to show the growth. Isiah Thomas was a metric gem that Boston stole. Lowry according to you was a metric stud before he became the all-star we see today. He could have had both of them given the assets and cap space when they were available. That would have shown me genius. If a GMs goal is only to trade for draft picls then any GM could do what he did.

Completely agree. My thoughts exactly.

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Y wasn't he able to find high win share gems from around the league to build a winning team while also stockpiling assets for the future?

Trading MCW was fine, but his value was huge at the time. They could have gotten a really good player back.

Any GM could do what Hinkie did if they don't have to show results in the win column. But since most Gms know they need to also have results they don't.

high win share guys are expensive and most GM's are not as dumb as fans and look for high metric guys.

MCW was robbery! Could not dream of getting more. Most GM's realized what MCW was and is.

Gm's don't have the stomach to do what he did or the brains to fuk with the cap like he did.

Some of his moves like Javhale were gems ... not sure he got basketball though. Great guy to work for an organization but probably not a good eye test GM.

My main issue with his moves is he spent 3 years doing all of this and didn't land one player who we know for certain is part of their core. We have no idea who will be left on that team. At the very least if he was going to do all of this, at least land a player or 2 that you know will be part of this thing long term. At least Phil did that with KP. A fan base can root for a young, but bad team, if they see a bright future with a couple of players currently on the roster. There is no future with that entire roster. No players to fall back on knowing they will be there even next season and for future seasons. The assets are nice in theory, that's about it.

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Y wasn't he able to find high win share gems from around the league to build a winning team while also stockpiling assets for the future?

Trading MCW was fine, but his value was huge at the time. They could have gotten a really good player back.

Any GM could do what Hinkie did if they don't have to show results in the win column. But since most Gms know they need to also have results they don't.

high win share guys are expensive and most GM's are not as dumb as fans and look for high metric guys.

MCW was robbery! Could not dream of getting more. Most GM's realized what MCW was and is.

Gm's don't have the stomach to do what he did or the brains to fuk with the cap like he did.

Some of his moves like Javhale were gems ... not sure he got basketball though. Great guy to work for an organization but probably not a good eye test GM.

My main issue with his moves is he spent 3 years doing all of this and didn't land one player who we know for certain is part of their core. We have no idea who will be left on that team. At the very least if he was going to do all of this, at least land a player or 2 that you know will be part of this thing long term. At least Phil did that with KP. A fan base can root for a young, but bad team, if they see a bright future with a couple of players currently on the roster. There is no future with that entire roster. No players to fall back on knowing they will be there even next season and for future seasons. The assets are nice in theory, that's about it.

so phil got KP while he got Ok4 who phil would almost certainly have taken (of course can't say for sure though many will yell that of course phil would have still taken KP - BS).

What else does phil have?

Philly has a treasure chest of chips.

Phil has a franchise potential player with 1 draft pick over 3 years and Philly had the opportunity at one with a mountain of assets and failed. End of story.

When making an argument you can't just make up a strawman scenario of your own picking and then use it as the argument, that's called BS

nyk4ever wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Y wasn't he able to find high win share gems from around the league to build a winning team while also stockpiling assets for the future?

Trading MCW was fine, but his value was huge at the time. They could have gotten a really good player back.

Any GM could do what Hinkie did if they don't have to show results in the win column. But since most Gms know they need to also have results they don't.

high win share guys are expensive and most GM's are not as dumb as fans and look for high metric guys.

MCW was robbery! Could not dream of getting more. Most GM's realized what MCW was and is.

Gm's don't have the stomach to do what he did or the brains to fuk with the cap like he did.

Some of his moves like Javhale were gems ... not sure he got basketball though. Great guy to work for an organization but probably not a good eye test GM.

My main issue with his moves is he spent 3 years doing all of this and didn't land one player who we know for certain is part of their core. We have no idea who will be left on that team. At the very least if he was going to do all of this, at least land a player or 2 that you know will be part of this thing long term. At least Phil did that with KP. A fan base can root for a young, but bad team, if they see a bright future with a couple of players currently on the roster. There is no future with that entire roster. No players to fall back on knowing they will be there even next season and for future seasons. The assets are nice in theory, that's about it.

so phil got KP while he got Ok4 who phil would almost certainly have taken (of course can't say for sure though many will yell that of course phil would have still taken KP - BS).

What else does phil have?

Philly has a treasure chest of chips.

a treasure chest of chips? really? embiid is worth nothing, he may never play in the league. nerlens noel is average, saric may not be over for 2 years, okafor is good, I'll give you that one. that's a tresure chest? i'm glad our treasure chest has kp in it.

picks. we have none and they have a boat load.

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Y wasn't he able to find high win share gems from around the league to build a winning team while also stockpiling assets for the future?

Trading MCW was fine, but his value was huge at the time. They could have gotten a really good player back.

Any GM could do what Hinkie did if they don't have to show results in the win column. But since most Gms know they need to also have results they don't.

high win share guys are expensive and most GM's are not as dumb as fans and look for high metric guys.

MCW was robbery! Could not dream of getting more. Most GM's realized what MCW was and is.

Gm's don't have the stomach to do what he did or the brains to fuk with the cap like he did.

Some of his moves like Javhale were gems ... not sure he got basketball though. Great guy to work for an organization but probably not a good eye test GM.

My main issue with his moves is he spent 3 years doing all of this and didn't land one player who we know for certain is part of their core. We have no idea who will be left on that team. At the very least if he was going to do all of this, at least land a player or 2 that you know will be part of this thing long term. At least Phil did that with KP. A fan base can root for a young, but bad team, if they see a bright future with a couple of players currently on the roster. There is no future with that entire roster. No players to fall back on knowing they will be there even next season and for future seasons. The assets are nice in theory, that's about it.

so phil got KP while he got Ok4 who phil would almost certainly have taken (of course can't say for sure though many will yell that of course phil would have still taken KP - BS).

What else does phil have?

Philly has a treasure chest of chips.

Phil has a franchise potential player with 1 draft pick over 3 years and Philly had the opportunity at one with a mountain of assets and failed. End of story.

When making an argument you can't just make up a strawman scenario of your own picking and then use it as the argument, that's called BS

+1. Facts are facts.

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Y wasn't he able to find high win share gems from around the league to build a winning team while also stockpiling assets for the future?

Trading MCW was fine, but his value was huge at the time. They could have gotten a really good player back.

Any GM could do what Hinkie did if they don't have to show results in the win column. But since most Gms know they need to also have results they don't.

high win share guys are expensive and most GM's are not as dumb as fans and look for high metric guys.

MCW was robbery! Could not dream of getting more. Most GM's realized what MCW was and is.

Gm's don't have the stomach to do what he did or the brains to fuk with the cap like he did.

Some of his moves like Javhale were gems ... not sure he got basketball though. Great guy to work for an organization but probably not a good eye test GM.

My main issue with his moves is he spent 3 years doing all of this and didn't land one player who we know for certain is part of their core. We have no idea who will be left on that team. At the very least if he was going to do all of this, at least land a player or 2 that you know will be part of this thing long term. At least Phil did that with KP. A fan base can root for a young, but bad team, if they see a bright future with a couple of players currently on the roster. There is no future with that entire roster. No players to fall back on knowing they will be there even next season and for future seasons. The assets are nice in theory, that's about it.

so phil got KP while he got Ok4 who phil would almost certainly have taken (of course can't say for sure though many will yell that of course phil would have still taken KP - BS).

What else does phil have?

Philly has a treasure chest of chips.

Of course Phil would have taken Okafor. And once Okafor was gone he also could have taken Winslow, or Mudiay, or Kaminsky etc. So it's not like KP was the obvious choice, and it's not like Hinkie would have definitely taken KP with the 4th pick. But he's the thing, Phil is not building thru the draft like Hinkie is. Hinkie sold everyone on his ability to draft a star player with all of these picks. So he has had how many lottery picks? And he has yet to land 1 player who is a definite part of their future. That is 1 less than Phil no matter how you spin it. And as far as his treasure chest of chips, yes he has some chips, but if a big time player becomes available, how many other teams have more chips to land that player before Philly does? Boston for a definite one. And there are a ton of other teams that it can be argued have better chips to land an elite player. So Philly not only failed to land a star via draft, but they might not even be able to put together the most appealing package when they decide to make a move for real players who can help them win. We will have to see.

draft picks have a huge luck factor. And, philly has to build through the draft or make a smart trade because no top FA has ever signed in philly or at least none since I have been a fan.