mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:I watched the game but was focusing on too many areas to notice a few particulars. OK4 was good one-on-one for about 3 quarters and I noticed the Knicks doubled him late in the game... when they did was he able to pass out of the double? I didn't think so but only saw the double once.

OK4 was blocked 5 times.

Dude showed some super advanced post moves but there is some other troubling signs for the young man, starting with conditioning.

felt the same way aside from him passing. I think that he will be a really good passer out of the double team.

You would not want him to lose too much, because much of his success comes from being able to back other players down with his lower body, but his vertical ability is clearly affected by his weight. At some point gravity always wins, He has to find the perfect balance between weight/muscle/and performance. He really does have an issue finishing above the rim with those great spins of his-there were many instances where he was using his length to finish without any added vertical support.

Sounds strange, I know, but OK4 is almost a large version of Galloway, in this aspect. Galloway uses his length to attack the basket but has trouble getting above the rim, and that's why he's being knocked down and having his shot blocked so much when he is in full extension finishing at the basket.

Just like KP, OK4 has a way to go physically- I expect to see KP a little heavier at training camp, with OK4 going in the opposite direction. Will be interesting to see how much progress each of them makes.

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:OK4 has to lose about 15 lbs...maybe more. Not sure what his present body fat % is.

You would not want him to lose too much, because much of his success comes from being able to back other players down with his lower body, but his vertical ability is clearly affected by his weight. At some point gravity always wins, He has to find the perfect balance between weight/muscle/and performance. He really does have an issue finishing above the rim with those great spins of his-there were many instances where he was using his length to finish without any added vertical support.

Sounds strange, I know, but OK4 is almost a large version of Galloway, in this aspect. Galloway uses his length to attack the basket but has trouble getting above the rim, and that's why he's being knocked down and having his shot blocked so much when he is in full extension finishing at the basket.

Just like KP, OK4 has a way to go physically- I expect to see KP a little heavier at training camp, with OK4 going in the opposite direction. Will be interesting to see how much progress each of them makes.

For KP it's the strength, guys are knocking him off balance too easily...For OK4, it's the conditioning/stamina...OK4 might need a dietitian/ fitness coach, etc...But again, these guys are 19 years old..19, think about that...

KP can be a 2 way player by just adding some strength

can OK4 be a 2 way player ever? I don't think that he will ever be able to defend at a decent level.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:OK4 has to lose about 15 lbs...maybe more. Not sure what his present body fat % is.

You would not want him to lose too much, because much of his success comes from being able to back other players down with his lower body, but his vertical ability is clearly affected by his weight. At some point gravity always wins, He has to find the perfect balance between weight/muscle/and performance. He really does have an issue finishing above the rim with those great spins of his-there were many instances where he was using his length to finish without any added vertical support.

Sounds strange, I know, but OK4 is almost a large version of Galloway, in this aspect. Galloway uses his length to attack the basket but has trouble getting above the rim, and that's why he's being knocked down and having his shot blocked so much when he is in full extension finishing at the basket.

Just like KP, OK4 has a way to go physically- I expect to see KP a little heavier at training camp, with OK4 going in the opposite direction. Will be interesting to see how much progress each of them makes.

For KP it's the strength, guys are knocking him off balance too easily...For OK4, it's the conditioning/stamina...OK4 might need a dietitian/ fitness coach, etc...But again, these guys are 19 years old..19, think about that...

KP can be a 2 way player by just adding some strength

can OK4 be a 2 way player ever? I don't think that he will ever be able to defend at a decent level.

Okafor had trouble guarding Porzingis out on the perimeter. Not sure how he and Noel will pair together. Okafor probably would benefit from playing with a stretch 4.

he did but stupidly, we did not go back to that after the first couple of minutes and we just parked KP in the weak side post.

holfresh wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:OK4 has to lose about 15 lbs...maybe more. Not sure what his present body fat % is.

You would not want him to lose too much, because much of his success comes from being able to back other players down with his lower body, but his vertical ability is clearly affected by his weight. At some point gravity always wins, He has to find the perfect balance between weight/muscle/and performance. He really does have an issue finishing above the rim with those great spins of his-there were many instances where he was using his length to finish without any added vertical support.

Sounds strange, I know, but OK4 is almost a large version of Galloway, in this aspect. Galloway uses his length to attack the basket but has trouble getting above the rim, and that's why he's being knocked down and having his shot blocked so much when he is in full extension finishing at the basket.

Just like KP, OK4 has a way to go physically- I expect to see KP a little heavier at training camp, with OK4 going in the opposite direction. Will be interesting to see how much progress each of them makes.

For KP it's the strength, guys are knocking him off balance too easily...For OK4, it's the conditioning/stamina...OK4 might need a dietitian/ fitness coach, etc...But again, these guys are 19 years old..19, think about that...

KP can be a 2 way player by just adding some strength

can OK4 be a 2 way player ever? I don't think that he will ever be able to defend at a decent level.

OK4 will be a 20 and 10 player..When he cleans up his stimina/fitness and free throws, he will be the best player in the draft...

I hope KP gets stronger..Putting on weight and getting stronger aren't the same thing...

will ok4 be a 2 way player?

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:OK4 has to lose about 15 lbs...maybe more. Not sure what his present body fat % is.

You would not want him to lose too much, because much of his success comes from being able to back other players down with his lower body, but his vertical ability is clearly affected by his weight. At some point gravity always wins, He has to find the perfect balance between weight/muscle/and performance. He really does have an issue finishing above the rim with those great spins of his-there were many instances where he was using his length to finish without any added vertical support.

Sounds strange, I know, but OK4 is almost a large version of Galloway, in this aspect. Galloway uses his length to attack the basket but has trouble getting above the rim, and that's why he's being knocked down and having his shot blocked so much when he is in full extension finishing at the basket.

Just like KP, OK4 has a way to go physically- I expect to see KP a little heavier at training camp, with OK4 going in the opposite direction. Will be interesting to see how much progress each of them makes.

For KP it's the strength, guys are knocking him off balance too easily...For OK4, it's the conditioning/stamina...OK4 might need a dietitian/ fitness coach, etc...But again, these guys are 19 years old..19, think about that...

KP can be a 2 way player by just adding some strength

can OK4 be a 2 way player ever? I don't think that he will ever be able to defend at a decent level.

Okafor had trouble guarding Porzingis out on the perimeter. Not sure how he and Noel will pair together. Okafor probably would benefit from playing with a stretch 4.

he did but stupidly, we did not go back to that after the first couple of minutes and we just parked KP in the weak side post.

That weak side post position was driving me nuts. I kept saying "Move him outside and let him use his speed and/or height to get a shot." They did that when KP scored hisfirst 2 and then not much more. I thought that was bad coaching as Okafor is not a rim protector, what good does it do to pull him a little away? Perhaps they are just trying some stuff out with him like Minny is with Towns, but what not try some variety? And KP decided himself to front Okafor in the 2nd half, he said so. Shouldn't the coaches have said that sometime first quarter?

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:OK4 has to lose about 15 lbs...maybe more. Not sure what his present body fat % is.

You would not want him to lose too much, because much of his success comes from being able to back other players down with his lower body, but his vertical ability is clearly affected by his weight. At some point gravity always wins, He has to find the perfect balance between weight/muscle/and performance. He really does have an issue finishing above the rim with those great spins of his-there were many instances where he was using his length to finish without any added vertical support.

Sounds strange, I know, but OK4 is almost a large version of Galloway, in this aspect. Galloway uses his length to attack the basket but has trouble getting above the rim, and that's why he's being knocked down and having his shot blocked so much when he is in full extension finishing at the basket.

Just like KP, OK4 has a way to go physically- I expect to see KP a little heavier at training camp, with OK4 going in the opposite direction. Will be interesting to see how much progress each of them makes.

For KP it's the strength, guys are knocking him off balance too easily...For OK4, it's the conditioning/stamina...OK4 might need a dietitian/ fitness coach, etc...But again, these guys are 19 years old..19, think about that...

What it comes down to is optimum weights for how they want to play. You want KP stronger/heavier, but at what point does he lose his quickness? For KP there is also the matter of position- Center or PF.

OK4 uses his bulk to great advantage. Don't think I would want him playing at 245-50 lbs, although I'm not sure with him at this point. It would help his stamina and D, but he would not be able to push guys around as much in the paint.

Should learn a lot both of them come training camp when you see the work they've put in to change their bodies.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:again, porzingis bothering okafor's shot. length bothers okafor, just like length bothers boozer.

OK4 is out of shape..No lift on that shot..The 82 game/travel schedule will test who can hack it..When OK4 gets in shape and works on his ft, he will be a beast..

one of the bigger ifs. what'd you think of the play where he gets stuffed by slim lanky and then decides a shot to the chin with the elbow is in order no less? i think it was a bitch move and showed a lack of character....

If you are referring to OK4 pushing off Grant and the incidental contact hitting Grant in the throat before he even took the shot, then you later try to say OK4 retaliated with his elbow, after being blocked..Then this is showing me your character more so than that of OK4..

I thought he threw his arm out after the block- but it on the offensive foul against KP, I think. It was on the player prior to him asking to come out of the game.

I use the free feed on my computer, and the quality is so so, as are my eyes.

He actually plays bully ball on a somewhat regular basis, and has gotten away with some arm swings and elbows on offense, and grabbing people he's guarding. I don't think he wants to waste his energy chasing his man.

OK if you get away with this type of stuff, I suppose, but he is doing it. Kind of like Shaq in this regard.

Karma came back to bite him in the end, though,

Well you are wrong..I watched it again a few times..Grant was between him and Zingis..OK4 tried to clear space before the release and hit Grant with the area above his wrist not his elbow..Again, it was prior to the shot..Zingis blocked the shot and they ran up court..Zero retaliation effort..None..

look at the video provided by longmire. need i point out that you are defending a 76er, champ?

There were two times he hit someone with the elbow..stop being a drama queen..incidental contact..I always call it how I see it..

it was intentional and above the chest. it's the game within the game and don't think the refs are going to look past that because they're not. he looks prone to frustration fouls. matter of fact i think porzingis and n'dour figured him out pretty quickly.

I think you are blowing it out of proportion..OK4 is not in shape and is using his arm to clear space instead of using his body..if you think he is retailing for being blocked then nothing I can say about that..If you feel that our kids show growth and figured him out the we have a bright future..

i said he was not in shape during the tournament which was weeks and weeks ago. i also noted then that he had no lift on his shot and he would have trouble against nba-level talent. i also questioned his character back during the tournament. today's game did not change those perceptions.

during the period that led up to the draft i said that i wanted towns or winslow and that if we got okafor i hope we could somehow trade down for two picks, like winslow and kaminsky. knicks were never going to draft russell or mudiay... of that i am certain. when we got porzingis i said i liked the pick, having seen his length and athleticism in the workout videos. the game footage i saw showed good court awareness too.

who was your first choice after towns?

I'll rather put my chips on OK4 getting in NBA shape than on KP getting strong enough to play the post or man the interior..I wanted OK4 or another NBA ready player like Winslow..I wasn't big on Towns, he isn't skilled..I wasn't fond of our pick maybe because I'm old school..I don't get the value of a 7 foot jump shooter who is soft on the inside, that includes Kaminsky, and years away from development..He really needs to get stronger..Players are generally who they are..He isn't going to develop into an inside scoring force..He is long and mobile so he will block some shots..He doesn't jump to block shots which is interesting..I think Phil is just winging it but we will see..

by that same line of reasoning i foresee okafor as having conditioning issues, weight issues, defensive issues, character issues... then again maybe he'll get it together, but i doubt it. i am glad we have kp.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:again, porzingis bothering okafor's shot. length bothers okafor, just like length bothers boozer.

OK4 is out of shape..No lift on that shot..The 82 game/travel schedule will test who can hack it..When OK4 gets in shape and works on his ft, he will be a beast..

one of the bigger ifs. what'd you think of the play where he gets stuffed by slim lanky and then decides a shot to the chin with the elbow is in order no less? i think it was a bitch move and showed a lack of character....

If you are referring to OK4 pushing off Grant and the incidental contact hitting Grant in the throat before he even took the shot, then you later try to say OK4 retaliated with his elbow, after being blocked..Then this is showing me your character more so than that of OK4..

I thought he threw his arm out after the block- but it on the offensive foul against KP, I think. It was on the player prior to him asking to come out of the game.

I use the free feed on my computer, and the quality is so so, as are my eyes.

He actually plays bully ball on a somewhat regular basis, and has gotten away with some arm swings and elbows on offense, and grabbing people he's guarding. I don't think he wants to waste his energy chasing his man.

OK if you get away with this type of stuff, I suppose, but he is doing it. Kind of like Shaq in this regard.

Karma came back to bite him in the end, though,

Well you are wrong..I watched it again a few times..Grant was between him and Zingis..OK4 tried to clear space before the release and hit Grant with the area above his wrist not his elbow..Again, it was prior to the shot..Zingis blocked the shot and they ran up court..Zero retaliation effort..None..

look at the video provided by longmire. need i point out that you are defending a 76er, champ?

There were two times he hit someone with the elbow..stop being a drama queen..incidental contact..I always call it how I see it..

it was intentional and above the chest. it's the game within the game and don't think the refs are going to look past that because they're not. he looks prone to frustration fouls. matter of fact i think porzingis and n'dour figured him out pretty quickly.

I think you are blowing it out of proportion..OK4 is not in shape and is using his arm to clear space instead of using his body..if you think he is retailing for being blocked then nothing I can say about that..If you feel that our kids show growth and figured him out the we have a bright future..

i said he was not in shape during the tournament which was weeks and weeks ago. i also noted then that he had no lift on his shot and he would have trouble against nba-level talent. i also questioned his character back during the tournament. today's game did not change those perceptions.

during the period that led up to the draft i said that i wanted towns or winslow and that if we got okafor i hope we could somehow trade down for two picks, like winslow and kaminsky. knicks were never going to draft russell or mudiay... of that i am certain. when we got porzingis i said i liked the pick, having seen his length and athleticism in the workout videos. the game footage i saw showed good court awareness too.

who was your first choice after towns?

I'll rather put my chips on OK4 getting in NBA shape than on KP getting strong enough to play the post or man the interior..I wanted OK4 or another NBA ready player like Winslow..I wasn't big on Towns, he isn't skilled..I wasn't fond of our pick maybe because I'm old school..I don't get the value of a 7 foot jump shooter who is soft on the inside, that includes Kaminsky, and years away from development..He really needs to get stronger..Players are generally who they are..He isn't going to develop into an inside scoring force..He is long and mobile so he will block some shots..He doesn't jump to block shots which is interesting..I think Phil is just winging it but we will see..

by that same line of reasoning i foresee okafor as having conditioning issues, weight issues, defensive issues, character issues... then again maybe he'll get it together, but i doubt it. i am glad we have kp.

Same here. Easier to bulk up then slim down.

Just growing from 19 years age to 21 year old adult, he'll put on 15-20 pounds easy.

Speaking of free throws on Okafor, neither Dwight Howard nor Deandre Jordan have solved that riddle this late in their careers. It'd be one thing if Okafor was like a 50-60% Free Throw shooter, but he could easily contend for the worst in the league if he brings his college and summer league percentages over an 82 game schedule.