martin wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

martin wrote:wow some of the laziest arguments I've seen in a long time. Frustration brings out the worst.

do you mind elaborating?

not really worth jumping in or I would have. Too much knee jerk reaction and frustration from losses. 10 years worth. Fire a coach cause we have no outside shooters and no PG? And neither "allstar" has shown up yet outside of like 2 or 3 games between the 2 of them? <shruggs>

martin, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't you post a thread that this team was tailor-made for phil jackson as is?

doesn't that mean you think that with a different coaching scheme this team could be potentially very good?

FoeDiddy wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:D'Antoni took a lot of money to come here, but he also took a hit for this team and saw them through four years of hell like a champ.

Contrast D'Antoni's behavior to Larry Brown's.

D'Antoni never threw a hissy fit, he just went out and try to make it happen.

Guy doesn't deserve to be eaten alive like this.

I just think 4 years is enough to access a job. We all have job or own our businesses. After awhile regardless of environment you have to perform. Other teams don't make excuses. Once I want to have a over achieving team. Look at Houston, Utah, Memphis. Overachieving off of effort and good coaching.

In his tenure here how many times are we gonna have to worry about the team not showing up and just looking nonchalant.

You're assuming that the team hasn't ever overachieved. On this roster we need a PG, cuz the top threats we have are not capable of running a team. They are scorers and finishers, not PG's. That's why it looks strange that this team should lose to lesser teams that are playing team ball. Kyrie Irving is better at PG than anyone we put on the floor tonight. On most nights we're getting killed by the opposing teams backcourt. At least Fields is starting to play like he used to, which is good news, but at the PG spot we're getting nothing.

In a month from now things could be totally different so I think Coach should get a shot to coach the year out and see what he can do with this team. Right now this team isn't clicking on all cylinders and our best player is hurt and struggling. I think we need to be patient and let this thing play out. Let's see if we can get Davis back and up to speed. Let's see if we can continue to coach up the kids on the team and improve the team chemistry. Switching the coach right now would be a complete restart at a time when there's no time to practice and change philosophy. I just don't see how that makes sense.

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:D'Antoni took a lot of money to come here, but he also took a hit for this team and saw them through four years of hell like a champ.

Contrast D'Antoni's behavior to Larry Brown's.

D'Antoni never threw a hissy fit, he just went out and try to make it happen.

Guy doesn't deserve to be eaten alive like this.

I just think 4 years is enough to access a job. We all have job or own our businesses. After awhile regardless of environment you have to perform. Other teams don't make excuses. Once I want to have a over achieving team. Look at Houston, Utah, Memphis. Overachieving off of effort and good coaching.

In his tenure here how many times are we gonna have to worry about the team not showing up and just looking nonchalant.

You're assuming that the team hasn't ever overachieved. On this roster we need a PG, cuz the top threats we have are not capable of running a team. They are scorers and finishers, not PG's. That's why it looks strange that this team should lose to lesser teams that are playing team ball. Kyrie Irving is better at PG than anyone we put on the floor tonight. On most nights we're getting killed by the opposing teams backcourt. At least Fields is starting to play like he used to, which is good news, but at the PG spot we're getting nothing.

In a month from now things could be totally different so I think Coach should get a shot to coach the year out and see what he can do with this team. Right now this team isn't clicking on all cylinders and our best player is hurt and struggling. I think we need to be patient and let this thing play out. Let's see if we can get Davis back and up to speed. Let's see if we can continue to coach up the kids on the team and improve the team chemistry. Switching the coach right now would be a complete restart at a time when there's no time to practice and change philosophy. I just don't see how that makes sense.

see, this post makes sense. that's a good post and a good argument. a healthy baron, a healthy melo and continuity are all this team can hope for right now. and maybe maybe kmart or jr from china.

nixluva wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:D'Antoni took a lot of money to come here, but he also took a hit for this team and saw them through four years of hell like a champ.

Contrast D'Antoni's behavior to Larry Brown's.

D'Antoni never threw a hissy fit, he just went out and try to make it happen.

Guy doesn't deserve to be eaten alive like this.

I just think 4 years is enough to access a job. We all have job or own our businesses. After awhile regardless of environment you have to perform. Other teams don't make excuses. Once I want to have a over achieving team. Look at Houston, Utah, Memphis. Overachieving off of effort and good coaching.

In his tenure here how many times are we gonna have to worry about the team not showing up and just looking nonchalant.

You're assuming that the team hasn't ever overachieved. On this roster we need a PG, cuz the top threats we have are not capable of running a team. They are scorers and finishers, not PG's. That's why it looks strange that this team should lose to lesser teams that are playing team ball. Kyrie Irving is better at PG than anyone we put on the floor tonight. On most nights we're getting killed by the opposing teams backcourt. At least Fields is starting to play like he used to, which is good news, but at the PG spot we're getting nothing.

In a month from now things could be totally different so I think Coach should get a shot to coach the year out and see what he can do with this team. Right now this team isn't clicking on all cylinders and our best player is hurt and struggling. I think we need to be patient and let this thing play out. Let's see if we can get Davis back and up to speed. Let's see if we can continue to coach up the kids on the team and improve the team chemistry. Switching the coach right now would be a complete restart at a time when there's no time to practice and change philosophy. I just don't see how that makes sense.

When have they overachieved in your opinion? And I have no doubt in my mind when Baron Davis and Melo is healthy this team will do better. BUT they can definitely be performing better right now with a better coaching performance.

If you go back to the first 2 games in Boston last playoffs he changed his whole way of subbing and calling timely timeouts and the team responded very well to it. Why can't he coach like that throughout the full season. It's lazy. You are up 9...Cavs score two possessions in a row while you have two horrendous possessions. Call a timeout! Refocus your team and make sure you get a good shot with a new play the opposing team hasn't seen yet.

Anyone who has played organized ball or watched the NBA knows exactly when momentum seems like it's slipped away and a timeout is necessary. (Only dude who got away without doing this was Phil Jackson but he also had Jordan & Kobe on his team so it doesn't count).

crzymdups wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:D'Antoni took a lot of money to come here, but he also took a hit for this team and saw them through four years of hell like a champ.

Contrast D'Antoni's behavior to Larry Brown's.

D'Antoni never threw a hissy fit, he just went out and try to make it happen.

Guy doesn't deserve to be eaten alive like this.

he was given a team. a team that he theoretically had a hand in assembling - literally there is no player left from when he got here... and yet, he keeps making the team he assembled try to fit into a system that does not play to ANY of their strengths.

it's maddening to watch and we've seen it for a while now from him.

ever since the melo trade. which, if you say he wouldn't have signed off on the melo trade then answer me this... why would he still want to be here?

Now I'm going to bed.

You're trying to tell me that he had a hand assembling this team.

This is a spit in my face.

Good day, sir.

so this team has been assembled against d'antoni's will? why did he ask dolan for an extension before this season?

people here were heralding him as a genius for the shumpert pick a week or two ago.

was tyson signed against his will?

melo? if the melo trade was against his will, which is the one argument you could make, why did he ask for an extension after last season?

Because he wants the money? Have you ever managed a team at work? Would you ask to be let go if they hired someone you didn't like? Or would you suck it up and keep doing what you can to make it work?

crzymdups wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:D'Antoni took a lot of money to come here, but he also took a hit for this team and saw them through four years of hell like a champ.

Contrast D'Antoni's behavior to Larry Brown's.

D'Antoni never threw a hissy fit, he just went out and try to make it happen.

Guy doesn't deserve to be eaten alive like this.

he was given a team. a team that he theoretically had a hand in assembling - literally there is no player left from when he got here... and yet, he keeps making the team he assembled try to fit into a system that does not play to ANY of their strengths.

it's maddening to watch and we've seen it for a while now from him.

ever since the melo trade. which, if you say he wouldn't have signed off on the melo trade then answer me this... why would he still want to be here?

Now I'm going to bed.

You're trying to tell me that he had a hand assembling this team.

This is a spit in my face.

Good day, sir.

so this team has been assembled against d'antoni's will? why did he ask dolan for an extension before this season?

people here were heralding him as a genius for the shumpert pick a week or two ago.

was tyson signed against his will?

melo? if the melo trade was against his will, which is the one argument you could make, why did he ask for an extension after last season?

Because he wants the money? Have you ever managed a team at work? Would you ask to be let go if they hired someone you didn't like? Or would you suck it up and keep doing what you can to make it work?

if you were on a contract, would ask for an extension if you hated the team you worked with? i don't know, man.

i think he can do better with baron, but i also think i've seen enough to know that what he can do with baron won't be enough to maximize the potential of this front line. whatever. either way i think most can agree he won't be back after this season.

When speculations and assumptions get weaves into arguments the argument loses credibility. Where has MDA said he hated the roster?

Knicks continue frustration in Cleveland:
http://www.thewindyapple.com/2012/01/26/the-knicks-frustration-continues-in-cleveland/

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

martin wrote:wow some of the laziest arguments I've seen in a long time. Frustration brings out the worst.

do you mind elaborating?

not really worth jumping in or I would have. Too much knee jerk reaction and frustration from losses. 10 years worth. Fire a coach cause we have no outside shooters and no PG? And neither "allstar" has shown up yet outside of like 2 or 3 games between the 2 of them? <shruggs>

martin, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't you post a thread that this team was tailor-made for phil jackson as is?

doesn't that mean you think that with a different coaching scheme this team could be potentially very good?

could be that I did. Doesn't mean I think that this coach should be fired cause he hasn't implemented the Triangle.

Just about 28 out of 30 coaches in the league do rely on a PG as a main cog in the offense. Just look at Monty Williams. Almost coach of the year last year; bottom feeder this one. Bad coach or bad situation?

The GM thought it was a good move for the organization to move Billups for Chandler; I thought it was a good long term move too. To not understand the consequences in spite of the fact that we know MDA relies even move heavily on a PG - and lets not forget to include Chandler, Fields, Amare in that list - would be negligent.

To those who think we should switch the offense - to what I wonder - post play? Do we want Amare and Melo iso ball in the post? Is that the solution? With outside shooters?

What is the next offensive system?

Do we not even allow a real PG to play in this system? Right now we got TD (who is a **** PG) and Shump (who is not far from TD on the effective PG list) trying to run the team. To suggest that these 2 would magically play better if the team were just running a different system is laughable.

fair points. i've been praying for baron all year. but this may be too much for him, honestly.

but when i'm watching this team run a unit of toney douglas, billy walker, jared jeffries, amar'e and mike bibby for six minutes in a row in the second half and missing every contested shot they take, all from 18 feet away from the hoop or more and a bunch of turnovers and no time outs, no substitutions... i just have to wonder about the coach. especially when this team seems to lose it's confidence SO quickly if the other team even hints at making a run. if anything coach should have a quick trigger with the time out sometimes.

and honestly, i do think posting up amar'e or melo with different spacing on the floor would be a lot more effective than having them take contested 18 footers and only occassionally slip their man for a layup. and i do think the triangle would be more effective. there is such a thing as point guard play, but the jvg knicks never had it. there's also such a thing as playing inside out. especially when you have the advantage inside.

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

martin wrote:wow some of the laziest arguments I've seen in a long time. Frustration brings out the worst.

do you mind elaborating?

not really worth jumping in or I would have. Too much knee jerk reaction and frustration from losses. 10 years worth. Fire a coach cause we have no outside shooters and no PG? And neither "allstar" has shown up yet outside of like 2 or 3 games between the 2 of them? <shruggs>

martin, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't you post a thread that this team was tailor-made for phil jackson as is?

doesn't that mean you think that with a different coaching scheme this team could be potentially very good?

could be that I did. Doesn't mean I think that this coach should be fired cause he hasn't implemented the Triangle.

Just about 28 out of 30 coaches in the league do rely on a PG as a main cog in the offense. Just look at Monty Williams. Almost coach of the year last year; bottom feeder this one. Bad coach or bad situation?

The GM thought it was a good move for the organization to move Billups for Chandler; I thought it was a good long term move too. To not understand the consequences in spite of the fact that we know MDA relies even move heavily on a PG - and lets not forget to include Chandler, Fields, Amare in that list - would be negligent.

To those who think we should switch the offense - to what I wonder - post play? Do we want Amare and Melo iso ball in the post? Is that the solution? With outside shooters?

What is the next offensive system?

Do we not even allow a real PG to play in this system? Right now we got TD (who is a **** PG) and Shump (who is not far from TD on the effective PG list) trying to run the team. To suggest that these 2 would magically play better if the team were just running a different system is laughable.

fair points. i've been praying for baron all year. but this may be too much for him, honestly.

but when i'm watching this team run a unit of toney douglas, billy walker, jared jeffries, amar'e and mike bibby for six minutes in a row in the second half and missing every contested shot they take, all from 18 feet away from the hoop or more and a bunch of turnovers and no time outs, no substitutions... i just have to wonder about the coach. especially when this team seems to lose it's confidence SO quickly if the other team even hints at making a run. if anything coach should have a quick trigger with the time out sometimes.

and honestly, i do think posting up amar'e or melo with different spacing on the floor would be a lot more effective than having them take contested 18 footers and only occassionally slip their man for a layup. and i do think the triangle would be more effective. there is such a thing as point guard play, but the jvg knicks never had it. there's also such a thing as playing inside out. especially when you have the advantage inside.

now those are sensible arguements. Why so much TD? And Billy too? Perhaps they have not seen enough of Lin in practice. He was good in Dleague but really sucked in his first few stints in garbage time.

At some point the coach does have to give consistant minutes to guys, right? You can't just have a carasel of players coming in and out... that's not coaching either.

I am wondering about a few different things: If MDA told Grunwald that he thought TD was a good enough PG to hold the fort until Baron came back, then we definitely have to fault him for that. And who thought Bibby would be good enough? In the same line: why was Anthony Carter let go so easily (maybe HE didn't want NY, who knows).

IMHO Amare and Melo are not superstarts; they both need strong PGs to both take the ball away from them and also give them the ball at the right time so that they can be ulta effective. Same with Chandler, expect he understands his limitations in a way that Amare and Melo do not.

When are the Knicks' shooters gonna show up? That's not really coaching, that's players not performing. Fields starting to show up. Jorts was nice. TD, Bibby, Walker, Shumps.... all guys who can make buckets but are not.

nixluva wrote:The spacing, timing and rhythm that our scorers are lacking would be fixed with a solid vet PG. You can have all the weapons in the world like the Giants and Patriots but with no QB... also it's true that we don't have guys that can just go create at will like a Kobe, Lebron, Durant or Wade. Melo is the closest to that tho not on the same level of efficiency. This team NEEDS A PG! I wish that we had more players that could get it done without one but that's not the reality.

We saw the team play well at times but they haven't been able to consistently move the ball and keep the motion on offense. It seems they easily lose focus and there's no floor leader to get them back on point.

I'd settle for Chris Duhon at this point.