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O.T Imus call Rutgers womens team NAPPY HEADED HOES
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Nalod
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4/11/2007  3:29 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>And I think in this world much of racist behavior is not ill intended.

Nalod - that is where you are not only wrong, you are DEAD WRONG.

The intention of such "behavior"... rather enforcement... is to maintain the superiority of one group of people over another. The intentions are as clear as using Blackface images to sell detergent or pancakes. "Nappy headed hoes" is simply an extension of "ignorant savages" ... who deserve to be kept as slaves... and always treated as such.

Was/is The Klan just a harmless group of fraternity boys having some good, clean fun?

you think Rush Limbaugh lacks a mean-spirited agenda?

wake up

[Edited by - misterearl on 04-11-2007 11:11 AM]

Rush LImbaugh is taken by the public as an authority figure. He is taken very seriously. Is he mean spirited? Im not sure, I don't listen to his crap, but I know he speaks to his demographic and they buy sh!t from the advertisers. He panders to his audiance. Its pretty sickening to me.

Al Franken did the same thing in reverse. ITs all about ratings. Nothing more. Preaching to the Choir is always an easy thing.

Imus has a comedy show. Anyone who takes him seriously or as an authority is very misinformed.
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Pharzeone
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4/11/2007  3:41 PM
Alot of your points are incorrect, Nalod to begin with. Imus tried to use rap as a scapegoat. Yet when grilled about the incident itself where he didn't mention a rap song, a rap artist, he mentioned Spike Lee about a movie he couldn't remember. Pretty weak defense. When asked what rap song he couldn't offer up one. Since he been doing these type of jokes since the 80s, I would venture out on the wild limb that rap wasn't used then as the scapegoat. Oh yeah when he was at WNBC it was drugs. That was the scapegoat of the decade. In addition, when he made the offensive comments about Gwen Ifill, what rap song or group did he borrow that from? Comments about Ewing? Some rapper is tearing up the record charts rapping about Ewing?

Nalod, Imus was reprimanded over the years for his vile comments. So I don't understand where you get your information. This is just the latest incident. As Matt Lauder pointed out, how many times Mr. Imus, you apology and then here you are again.

LOL, I think there will come a time when all Jim Crowism will be blamed on Rap music.
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Pharzeone
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4/11/2007  3:45 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by misterearl:

>>And I think in this world much of racist behavior is not ill intended.

Nalod - that is where you are not only wrong, you are DEAD WRONG.

The intention of such "behavior"... rather enforcement... is to maintain the superiority of one group of people over another. The intentions are as clear as using Blackface images to sell detergent or pancakes. "Nappy headed hoes" is simply an extension of "ignorant savages" ... who deserve to be kept as slaves... and always treated as such.

Was/is The Klan just a harmless group of fraternity boys having some good, clean fun?

you think Rush Limbaugh lacks a mean-spirited agenda?

wake up

[Edited by - misterearl on 04-11-2007 11:11 AM]

Rush LImbaugh is taken by the public as an authority figure. He is taken very seriously. Is he mean spirited? Im not sure, I don't listen to his crap, but I know he speaks to his demographic and they buy sh!t from the advertisers. He panders to his audiance. Its pretty sickening to me.

Al Franken did the same thing in reverse. ITs all about ratings. Nothing more. Preaching to the Choir is always an easy thing.

Imus has a comedy show. Anyone who takes him seriously or as an authority is very misinformed.

Interesting when he is holding his radio-thron tomorrow about SIDS, should I be laughing along about the infants he will discuss. You can't hide behind the cloak of comedy when it suits you and then declare take me serious when you want to get your point across. When he goes on about getting insurance for service men, is that part of his sketch comedy? At what point is it comedy and what point is it serious news of interest.
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playa2
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4/11/2007  3:58 PM
Nalod do you have brothers or sisters ?

If so weren't there things said to each other
that were considered bad or untrue but was easily forgiven or accepted ?

Why, obviously because you were family.

But let someone outside yourfamily say something or call you brother or sister something which isn't true about them
and you would defend with a passion.

Or another thing, you might not know this but black people even though we might not know someone in passing who's black, we have this thing where we speak to them or nod are heads at each other in a way of acknowledging one another no matter where we might be.

My point is if you hear other black saying something towards someone else that is black, it doesn't mean if another race says it that it's ok.

Why because we are like family even though we don't know one another here in america.

So to use other african americans comedians
or rappers as an example that say derogatory comments about
there OWN race will only be accepted in the family .

Now when a white person says those things it goes deeper, because of the history of slavery in america, when those names used were to show african american there worth here in america.


Words like nappy head ginny's or the N word for exampletold us we were
Low life , lower than anumals wenches and all were some of the slang used to show our worth created by slavery and jim crow days.

Now in 2007 nobody will accept that type of lingo and

behavior as a joke with comedic value from a talk show host like Imus.
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GhandiOrr
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4/11/2007  4:16 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

LOL, I think there will come a time when all Jim Crowism will be blamed on Rap music.

^^^^That's a brilliant line!
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Nalod
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4/11/2007  4:20 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Alot of your points are incorrect, Nalod to begin with. Imus tried to use rap as a scapegoat. Yet when grilled about the incident itself where he didn't mention a rap song, a rap artist, he mentioned Spike Lee about a movie he couldn't remember. Pretty weak defense. When asked what rap song he couldn't offer up one. Since he been doing these type of jokes since the 80s, I would venture out on the wild limb that rap wasn't used then as the scapegoat. Oh yeah when he was at WNBC it was drugs. That was the scapegoat of the decade. In addition, when he made the offensive comments about Gwen Ifill, what rap song or group did he borrow that from? Comments about Ewing? Some rapper is tearing up the record charts rapping about Ewing?

Nalod, Imus was reprimanded over the years for his vile comments. So I don't understand where you get your information. This is just the latest incident. As Matt Lauder pointed out, how many times Mr. Imus, you apology and then here you are again.

LOL, I think there will come a time when all Jim Crowism will be blamed on Rap music.


How many times will he have to aplogize? My point over all is that society tolerates him. When they can't, he is gone.

I should have been clearer to not say his reponse was total legit. The rap community uses those terms and he takes then and uses them in a differnt text. But its tolerated in the black community.

If he can raise money for Sids and be an Azzhole, then its obvious the marketplace thinks he is legit. IF he talks about issues about servicemen then is still legit.

If he is not anymore, then he is gone. The market and society has allowed his stupid rants to go on. Why should he aplogize when he has been paid very well to be an Azzhole.

Sam with Chappelle. When he is no longer funny, then he'll do somting else. Eddie Murhpy was no longer funny and he went on to do kids movies. IN that medium he succeeded. Imagine if he did his cuss filled rants thru "Donkey" or "Dr. Doolittle". Be funny, but think of the children!
oohah
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4/11/2007  4:33 PM
Everything has worked out well for Imus, nobody gave a f@ck about him until a couple of days ago, now he is relevant and talked about.

***

Personally, racial or sexual humor doesn't bother me as long as it is funny. Eddy Murphy/Pryor/Bruce and many others did it well. It doesn't even have to be socially conscious as long as it is really funny.

Also, what people say to their buddies in private is of no concern to me. Go ahead and make racist jokes with your friends, they know who you are.

What bothers me is when Racist and sexism are used in place of humor as a matter of routine, like on "ComicView" where comedians just use "white people" for every setup of a nothing joke, or when Adam Corrolla uses "Mexican" to describe anything that is sh!tty or sub-standard. There is no real joke there, it is just trying to be hip through prejudiced comments.

So if Imus had made an actual joke, and it was funny, I probably would think nothing of it and I would say people are just being sanctimonious and indignant.

But he was just being nasty, and he knows that his comments will tickle the funny bones of people who think that way, not because it is actually funny, but because they think it is funny that he said how they feel to 10,000,000 people.

There are shades of gray to this issue.

oohah

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oohah
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4/11/2007  4:37 PM
Let me add two comedians who do racial humour badly: Carlos Mencia and margaret Cho. He just does white people this, Black people that, Mexaican the other, and Cho made a career doing chinese accents and jokes that would have other comedians decried and put out of work.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
newyorknewyork
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4/11/2007  4:55 PM
My Albanian friend told me a joke the other day.

Why couldn't Stevie Wonder read? I replied because he was blind. He said no, because he was black?

Now say that a black radio personality later on that day made a joke trying to be funny about Albanians on the radio, and said something along the lines of what my friend said.

Would my Albanian friend have a right to be mad at him and try to get him fired or no??
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PresIke
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4/11/2007  5:15 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by joec32033:
just posted this to show that racism isn't an exclusively black & white issue... we still have a long, LONG way to go in this country guys & gals.


Author and Owner of Blacknificent Books.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 11 April 2007 07:27]

That is vile and disturbing. Racism is a problem that must be removed. I remember someone asking my ethics professor how will we ever get rid of racism. He joking responded, when space aliens land on this planet and then humans can band together and focus their hate on a different species. It was funny and everyone laugh but I then remember that movie "Alien Nation" back in the 80s and that was the premise of the movie. Says alot about human nature.

Certainly racism is an issue that effects everyone, regardless of "race" (which is a social construct), but I challenge one to consider how this individual's view about how to respond to white people's treatment of people of African descent following the Katrina disaster (which is pretty darn hard to deny as having racial connotations) should be seen as so "vile" and "disturbing" and a representation that blacks can be "racist" when if you check the long standing history of treatment of people of African descent in not only the United States, but Africa, Brazil and beyond is not exactly far from understandable.

I am not suggesting that this gentleman's idea is the best or "right" solution, but if one tries to empathize with the way (at least) some people of African descent feel and experience racism then it isn't as "vile" and "disturbing" as one might be led to believe, and should be more of an indicator as to how much awful treatment people of color experience in America. It's not to say that his suggestion is actually something that is going to take place or be bought into by more than a few people anyway, where as derogatory comments/jokes about black people that Imus, Michael Richards, etc. make are common place among whites and have a far more lasting effect on society because of whites power and privilege.

In essence, this is why the definition of racism that takes these type of things into account would not classify his comments as so, and possess far less of an impact than a mainstream, white person's comments about people of color in our current society.
I'd argue that his point is
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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4/11/2007  5:21 PM
Posted by Nalod:

I am a hopeful person and believe racism will never go away but does get less tolerated by society over time.

I don't think Imus comment was all that bad THIS TIME but his past is catching up with him. Again had he said his thing about all black women basketball players that would be a blanket racist statement. Don't get me wrong, it was inappropriate what he said, but not his worst work.

Shock jocks appeal to a lot of people, and there are differnt ones for differnt demographics.

Its complicated.

Rudy will go on cuz repulicans are generally seen as white conservitive and he can spout to defend the right of free speech! Hilary is a Democrat and she can win by solidifying the minority vote with those "liberal" people. Both have agendas beyond Imus. Trust me.

If people don't want to hear Imus's spew then they won't. Comedy is comedy regardless of if its in good taste or not. Judging Imus comments or history as a journalist as Wilbon does, or 60 minutes did made no difference. Imus knows exactly what he is doing and he is there for ratings.

Im not upset with him cuz its a comedy show. Al Sharptons motives are not clear either. He has a show also and while this is a moral issue, it does help his ratings.

So in the end what really gets accomplished?

Progress! Millions of people now know that "Nappy headed Hoe" is not a good thing to say about black women! Sounds simple, but I bet there are people that think it was ok!

I wonder if you would consider sharing why you feel the need to excuse Imus' comments here? What leads the man to believe that it is acceptable to say such a thing at all? His appealing to "certain people" and "freedom of speech" is enough justification for him to do so? Well, if he is free to say what he likes (which he certainly is) then others are free to call for his firing and call them racist. Comedy does not entitle one to a blank check where one can say and do as they please and expect a response. If what he said is not all that bad, then why the backlash and why the apology? It's not all that complicated to see how his comments are wrong, inappropriate, and indicate that racism is seriously alive and well.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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4/11/2007  5:34 PM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by playa2:
Posted by misterearl:

>>Millions of people now know that "Nappy headed Hoe" is not a good thing to say about black women!

Nalod - your feeling that what Imus said was "not that bad" speaks volumes

I would love to hear Nalod speak behind close doors with his cronies, his post on the subject speaks volumes.


Moron, read my post again:
I don't think Imus comment was all that bad THIS TIME but his past is catching up with him. Again had he said his thing about all black women basketball players that would be a blanket racist statement. Don't get me wrong, it was inappropriate what he said, but not his worst work.

You got me wrong.

I think calling Ewing what he did and the Williams sisters comment was far worse. Nobody jumped on that or other things said worse. Get it?

Given you a self proclaimed homophobe I would not be so quick to jump on anyones ass (pun intended) and moving around ones quotes.


And I think in this world much of racist behavior is not ill intended. Its done out of ignorance first. Thus, I think that the world is better off knowing that things like what Imus says can be hurtful.

Behind closed doors? Look in the mirror!

Yet, what is the point of rating it as "more" or "less" racist? You said it was "ALL not that bad this time." Why is it any less "bad" to say what he said about a basketball team of mostly black women, then about ALL black women, and why does it even matter? The fact is he said something that CLEARLY enters the realm of racist behavior, and you somehow feel the need to lessen the impact of the comment because it wasn't applied in his wording to all black women.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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4/11/2007  5:39 PM
I need nor am looking for a pat on the back from misterearl, but I will say that I believe he has added A GREAT DEAL of substance to this particular discussion and the forum, while I see others here who call people "morons" and use all kinds of other demeaning rhetoric about posters and players go unchecked. Vilifying the NY Times forum was a low blow, man. One may not see it, but these are ad hominem attacks.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Nalod
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4/11/2007  6:03 PM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by Nalod:

I am a hopeful person and believe racism will never go away but does get less tolerated by society over time.

I don't think Imus comment was all that bad THIS TIME but his past is catching up with him. Again had he said his thing about all black women basketball players that would be a blanket racist statement. Don't get me wrong, it was inappropriate what he said, but not his worst work.

Shock jocks appeal to a lot of people, and there are differnt ones for differnt demographics.

Its complicated.

Rudy will go on cuz repulicans are generally seen as white conservitive and he can spout to defend the right of free speech! Hilary is a Democrat and she can win by solidifying the minority vote with those "liberal" people. Both have agendas beyond Imus. Trust me.

If people don't want to hear Imus's spew then they won't. Comedy is comedy regardless of if its in good taste or not. Judging Imus comments or history as a journalist as Wilbon does, or 60 minutes did made no difference. Imus knows exactly what he is doing and he is there for ratings.

Im not upset with him cuz its a comedy show. Al Sharptons motives are not clear either. He has a show also and while this is a moral issue, it does help his ratings.

So in the end what really gets accomplished?

Progress! Millions of people now know that "Nappy headed Hoe" is not a good thing to say about black women! Sounds simple, but I bet there are people that think it was ok!

I wonder if you would consider sharing why you feel the need to excuse Imus' comments here? What leads the man to believe that it is acceptable to say such a thing at all? His appealing to "certain people" and "freedom of speech" is enough justification for him to do so? Well, if he is free to say what he likes (which he certainly is) then others are free to call for his firing and call them racist. Comedy does not entitle one to a blank check where one can say and do as they please and expect a response. If what he said is not all that bad, then why the backlash and why the apology? It's not all that complicated to see how his comments are wrong, inappropriate, and indicate that racism is seriously alive and well.


I never said to excuse the comment. I just wonder perhaps like others why this comment and not others? Why the backlash now and why an apology?

Maybe we are all making progress after all. Maybe society and its blacka and white leaders are not taking it any more. And the public is buying into it.

To me Imus was never credible. I have said it a few times now. IM not defending him. I wish you and others would read my text a little better.

I said there was hope.
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4/11/2007  6:24 PM

MSNBC has just fired Imus....Could CBS radio be far behind...
Nalod
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4/11/2007  6:40 PM
Sirius!
PresIke
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4/11/2007  6:42 PM
Nalod, I nderstand that part of what you seem to be saying that your implication is "it wasn't that bad" in comparison to what he's said before, but your direct quote, not taken out of context is:
I don't think Imus comment was all that bad THIS TIME but his past is catching up with him. Again had he said his thing about all black women basketball players that would be a blanket racist statement. Don't get me wrong, it was inappropriate what he said, but not his worst work.

You seem to imply that this comment, while "inappropriate" was not that bad, which I have a difficult time seeing as anything other than diminishing the comment's weight, which is essentially my first problem with what you wrote. Then you add to the attempt to lower the impact of the comment by saying that it's not "all that bad" because it was not a blanket statement about black women basketball players. Am I wrong here? Because that's what it says in plain English.

Now, it seems you are defending your comments by suggesting that "context" is required to understand that you mean compared to what he's said before it isn't "all that bad." But that's not what you seem to be saying in the above quote. Not only that, but I cannot help but wonder why you apparently wish to lower the impact of his statements, especially with an argument that that it is less powerful (in your eyes) because he didn't specifically say that in regards to all black female basketball players, since that is the kind of thing that we have to use to measure the worst examples of racism.

Again, what is the goal of your questioning? To compare his current statement about the Rutgers team to his past statements that you feel are worse to show that we've made some kind of progress? Sorry, it's hard to get excited about such an implication when we have someone saying what he said on national radio and television and so many defending his words.

This is not a debate about Imus or his past comments, but about the fact that what he said is wrong, and what it represents about our society. Dwelling on why he "got caught" now versus before is not really much of a big deal, because other whites who didn't realize they were being watched have said racist things before, thinking no one was watching and paid a price too, like Trent Lott's comments about Strom Thurmond, which happened to be caught by someone and posted on the Internet.

Did he say even more racist things before in public and not get checked? Probably, but whether he got checked now or then, while being possibly one thing to feel "hope" for is a bit naive, when apparently his getting "caught" didn't have long lasting effects since he's already back in vougue with certain Republicans (and his constituents). He wasn't fired either...just moved from his position as Senate Republican leader (at the time).

The point is that these comments say something about our culture and society. Getting caught at a particular time is not something to get too caught up in at this point because it doesn't seem to stop white folks from saying them again, and the constant defense of Imus by whites is all the more reason to point out all how valid concerns about race in this country really are.

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-11-2007 6:44 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-11-2007 6:45 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-11-2007 6:46 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-11-2007 6:48 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-11-2007 6:49 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
misterearl
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4/11/2007  6:56 PM
PresIke - here's a pat on the back anyway

I have a feeling it's exactly the nature of that "substance" part that bugs the hell out of a lot of the same people who feel entitled to selectively monitor an open conversation, or hurl personal attacks.

These same combatants who come prepared with their minds made up in advance, armed to argue over what they perceive is a challenge to their manhood... or (cough) intelligence... or basketball knowledge... or sumpthin'...

what the hell...?

We all have different points of reference. None of us have perfect vision.

Some grab at the elephants trunk and others grab at the tail. Still others, back up and try to place the elephant in the context of the room... or in his natural habitat as it were...

everyone sees something slightly different and we are spozed to be better for sharing those prismatic (is that a word?) points of view

WRONG!

..personally, I'd rather we lived in a virtual world where talking Knicks basketball was not the chest-thumping contests that make African lowland gorillas definately appear as the superior species.

unfortunately, some of the pre-conceived notions of race (so naive it hurts to laugh) even stain the perceptions of Stephon Marbury, David Lee, Patrick Ewing, Barak Obama, Eddy Curry, Rutgers Basketball, or even Isiah freakin' Thomas.

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Nalod
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4/11/2007  7:08 PM
Posted by PresIke:

Nalod, I nderstand that part of what you seem to be saying that your implication is "it wasn't that bad" in comparison to what he's said before, but your direct quote, not taken out of context is:
I don't think Imus comment was all that bad THIS TIME but his past is catching up with him. Again had he said his thing about all black women basketball players that would be a blanket racist statement. Don't get me wrong, it was inappropriate what he said, but not his worst work.

You seem to imply that this comment, while "inappropriate" was not that bad, which I have a difficult time seeing as anything other than diminishing the comment's weight, which is essentially my first problem with what you wrote. Then you add to the attempt to lower the impact of the comment by saying that it's not "all that bad" because it was not a blanket statement about black women basketball players. Am I wrong here? Because that's what it says in plain English.

Now, it seems you are defending your comments by suggesting that "context" is required to understand that you mean compared to what he's said before it isn't "all that bad." But that's not what you seem to be saying in the above quote. Not only that, but I cannot help but wonder why you apparently wish to lower the impact of his statements, especially with an argument that that it is less powerful (in your eyes) because he didn't specifically say that in regards to all black female basketball players, since that is the kind of thing that we have to use to measure the worst examples of racism.

Again, what is the goal of your questioning? To compare his current statement about the Rutgers team to his past statements that you feel are worse to show that we've made some kind of progress? Sorry, it's hard to get excited about such an implication when we have someone saying what he said on national radio and television and so many defending his words.

This is not a debate about Imus or his past comments, but about the fact that what he said is wrong, and what it represents about our society. Dwelling on why he "got caught" now versus before is not really much of a big deal, because other whites who didn't realize they were being watched have said racist things before, thinking no one was watching and paid a price too, like Trent Lott's comments about Strom Thurmond, which happened to be caught by someone and posted on the Internet.

Did he say even more racist things before in public and not get checked? Probably, but whether he got checked now or then, while being possibly one thing to feel "hope" for is a bit naive, when apparently his getting "caught" didn't have long lasting effects since he's already back in vougue with certain Republicans (and his constituents). He wasn't fired either...just moved from his position as Senate Republican leader (at the time).

The point is that these comments say something about our culture and society. Getting caught at a particular time is not something to get too caught up in at this point because it doesn't seem to stop white folks from saying them again, and the constant defense of Imus by whites is all the more reason to point out all how valid concerns about race in this country really are.

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-11-2007 6:44 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-11-2007 6:45 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-11-2007 6:46 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-11-2007 6:48 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-11-2007 6:49 PM]


Thats a hell of a post and points well put.

First and formost I am no expert on this matter and apparently my intent vs. my writing ability might have painted me in a corner that I did not exactly mean to go into, but at the same time I can see you points and will admit you bring up some interesting thoughts well presented. I might be wrong in a few areas as well.

I have not listened to Imus in over twenty years and I am digesting his Williams sisters comment, Ewing Comment, and the Rutgers comment all at the same time (Never heard or recall the first two as being an issue) and I think you understand my postition that they are equally wrong and offensive in many ways. To that I feel that his head should have been called for prior.

So in that, I put equal weight on all three comments.

My "Progress" approach was my attempt to say that if now he is being held accountable then before might show a lessor tolerance to such public display of arrogance. Again, if this latest quote (in my opinion is equal to others)incites this outcry to stop such comments regardless of "comedy" intent, then maybe it is progress in some sort.


Any progress to not tolerate racism is step in the right direction.



[Edited by - nalod on 04-11-2007 7:19 PM]
Solace
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4/11/2007  7:11 PM
Just one question, and I mean no disrespect by it, but why are there comparisons to crimes, like murder? Al Sharpton made a similar comparison on his show too. Clearly those situations are a lot different, by the very nature of the fact that they are crimes. Crimes are not forgiven... BY THE LAW. People forgive for mistakes all the time, even crimes. There's also the matter of level of severity. A less severe act is much easier and reasonable to forgive than a more severe one, such as murder. Apples and oranges.

And no, I'll add my disclaimer again. I do not, nor have I ever in this thread or elsewhere, defended Imus. I'm just advocating being a tiny bit fair and consistent. I think some of the discussion has been very fair and had good arguments. I also think some of the discussion has been downright ridiculous, and looks much like the posts in Knicks-related topics, which equate to, "listen to me! I'm right. If you disagree with me, you are wrong. Nobody can be more right than me, but you can be as right as me if you agree with me!" Much of the anger (not everyones) seems to spew from that sort of source. That is unfortunate.

[Edited by - Solace on Apr 11 2007 7:12 PM]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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