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O.T. War in the middle East...
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colorfl1
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7/25/2006  2:02 PM
Posted by Rich:


It's a tragedy, but the bigger tragedy is that the situation should never have occurred because....

colorfl1- I think that you position is a very tragic one...
it focuses on the past without being proactive for the future...

I completely believe that you are earnest and well-meaning on this issue... but the countries around the world that are letting innocent families die so they could negotiate a more favourable deal on Iraq's percieved debts..('');.

(BTW, they would make an immense impact if they tried... Iraqi officials have been asking the world to give them a fighting chance - I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that. But I do believe that Iraq's future is being undermined by the perception of US colonialism in the Arab world and abroad.., the world's inaction in stopping the support and training of secritarian atrosities by rogue states... if the whole world cooperated in good faith on this crises the Iraqi people would surely rise to the occasion - it is shameful to dismiss a whole nation saying that they cannot get past their secretarian hatred... did we say that in Irland, Germany, South Africa, Kosovo, Jordan.....?)

I am from Canada, a conservative democrat (socially liberal, fiscallyconservative),
and it amazes me the extent of vitriol that is leveled about your government's intentions...

Were Joe Lieberman, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry and other Democratic leaders also paid off to conspire to spread propaganda about the need to remove Sadaam from power?

"Iraq may not be the war on terror itself, but it is critical to the outcome of the war on terror, and therefore any advance in Iraq is an advance forward in that and I disagree with the Governor [Howard Dean]." -- John Kerry , from Nov. 03

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002


As I explained, I was not in favour of the US going it alone,
but this opperation was a choice between the lesser of 2 evils.

Clearly, Iraq needed to be dealt with with the world's support; which means assuring the world leaders that they woulld be repaid Saddam's old debts ('');and be able to maintain some of their contracts... In that way we could have maintained focus on Afghanastan and unify the world's nations against the support of terrorists...

But that is done and history... what can be done now to do the most good today???

To say that Arab secritarian hatred is worse than Rwanda's, Ireland's, Jordan's, Kosovo's... may be percieved by some as racist... these people were not destroying each other pre-Sadaam.

Why does no one extend the same critical analysis and question the real motivations of France, China, Russia, the EU ect... they get a free pass in world opinion??? They are not immune from the type of self serving criticism that is so en-vogue now. Their hand has been caught in the jar of supporting oppression for finacial gain more than i could possible innumerate... no country is immune... but some thrive on it.

They are playing a game of brinksmanship with the lives of innocent Iraqis in order to shake them down (like thugs) for moneys owed by Sadaam (money that was spent on his private ambitions)... Anyone that does not decry this injustice is complicit in it... it is absolutely shameful...

the world has learned nothing from their silence preceeding WWII,J('');

[Edited by - colorfl1 on 07-25-2006 2:43 PM]
AUTOADVERT
colorfl1
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7/25/2006  3:15 PM
Moderates start to hide...

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/03/17/emboldened_democrats_court_partys_left_wing/

By Nina J. Easton, Globe Staff | March 17, 2006
WASHINGTON --

...Mark Warner, former Virginia governor, recently hired one of the leftist blogosphere's biggest names to run his Internet outreach campaign, and Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana began a blog on the liberal Huffington Post, peddling his foreign policy views.
The next round of prospective Democratic presidential candidates, even those with centrist credentials, is actively courting the Democratic Party's left wing... The Democrats are rushing to fill a void left in the hearts and minds of many liberal activists by New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton's efforts to move to the center, particularly on the Iraq war.

''It's very important for them to know we'll fight for their beliefs," Edwards, a former vice presidential candidate, said of the party's liberal activists. Having run in 2004 as a moderate who supported the Iraq war, Edwards is busy building a large base of support on the left...

...Democratic centrists who look at the voter math worry about candidates who court the left, fearing that their party will turn off too many swing voters to be able to beat Republicans in a general election. A nationwide survey by pollsters Penn, Schoen, and Berland -- who represent Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton, among other clients -- found that self-described liberals make up only 16 percent of the population, compared with 36 percent who call themselves conservatives and 47 percent who say they are moderates.
But liberals have disproportionate sway in the primary campaign, and they're already chiding Clinton for distancing herself from some of their causes.

Clinton's supporters, and others on the left, maintain that she still has plenty of credibility among liberals. But if, as expected, Clinton seeks her party's nod for president, she will face an increasingly crowded field of candidates who are already picking up support among the left-wing voters and activists whose voices dominate during primary season.

Jerome Armstrong, founder of the popular leftist blog MyDD.com, has joined Warner. Many of Armstrong's colleagues in the blogosphere support Feingold, a longtime hero on the left for his stance against the Iraq war and his lone vote against the USA Patriot Act in 2001...

...Three months ago,[ John] Edwards renounced his vote authorizing the president to invade Iraq, an act of contrition that is considered a requirement for support from the left. ''As long as they're suitably contrite and admit they made a mistake," Moulitsas says of the blogosphere's willingness to support senators who cast that nettlesome 2002 vote.
...Likewise, Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts has renounced his own vote in favor of the Iraq war. ...

colorfl1
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7/25/2006  3:29 PM
(excerpts)
Former Israeli U.N. Ambassador Dore Gold on The Hugh Hewitt Show
37-24-2006 at 04:07 PM

HH: Do you believe that Iran is serious about taking steps to destroy Israel? If they had weapons of mass destruction, Dore Gold, do you suppose that they would try and supply them to Hezbollah?

DG: I tend to doubt that a country like Iran would supply weapons of mass destruction to a terrorist organization, unless it was in a very unusual fix. However, let's be clear about Iran. If all Iran wanted to do was destroy Israel, then they would put all their defense dollars in weapons systems and have a range, from Iran to Israel. That's a 1,300 kilometer range, Shihab-3 missile. But lo and behold, what we find about Iran, they're developing a Shihab-4 with 2,000 kilometers. They just bought a missile from North Korea called the BM-25, with a 2,500 kilometer range. So they're looking to shoot missiles way beyond Israel, right now into NATO members in Europe, and eventually towards the United States. And we know that, because they're trying to build a space lift capability, which will give them multi-stage rockets that could strike the Eastern Seaboard of the United States. That's what Iran's trying to do. I think their short-term goal is to dominate the Persian Gulf, to use the Shiia minorites in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE and elsewhere, to upset the balance of power there, and take over these oil producing areas, and then use their nuclear and missile capabilities to deter NATO action against them.

HH: Last week on this program, Mark Steyn, one of the most prolific writers and trenchant observers of international affairs, argued that perhaps the Arab nations are beginning to awaken, that their real threat has never been Israel, but is the renewal of a dominant Iran, that in fact governs them through terror far more than they've ever been intimidated by Israel. Do you agree that that might be happening, Dore Gold? And doesn't that represent, if it is, a revolutionary development in the Middle East?

DG: I think Mark Steyn is absolutely right. I think that if you look at the data from the Iran-Iraq war that raged from 1980-1988, more Arabs died on the battlefield against Persian soldiers than in any Arab-Israeli battlefield. And now, if what I'm speaking about is implemented, you will have a Iran seeking to build a military presence in Lebanon, if we don't oppose them. You will have a...by the way, based on a Shiite, maybe 50-49% population. You'll have Iran penetrating Iraq, where the Shiia are a firm majority, they have a base for having a clear strength in that country. In Bahrain, you have 80% Shiites, with a Sunni minority ruling them. There's an opportunity there for getting some important Arab countries. And of course, the oil producing areas of Saudi Arabia, known as the Eastern Province, there's a Shiite majority there. They would therefore be able to dismantle Saudi Arabia, and they'd be able to get ahold of its oil fields. That's the real danger that's out there. Israel's an excuse, it's a red herring, it's a distraction. It allows Iran to mobilize Arab opinion on their own behalf, and divert attention away from what they're trying to do.

HH: Now the Shiia are not all behind Iran. Obviously, Ayatollah Sistani in Iraq has been a great force for unification, and for transition to some semblence of democracy there. How strong is the Iranian regime, in your estimate, Ambassador Gold? And can it be toppled short of military means?

DG: Well, let's begin first of all with their penetration of various countries. I mean, I agree with you that Ali Sistani has been a moderate, and he has tried to minimize the influence of Shiia religion on the politics in Iraq. But there's also Muqtada al Sadr, who sees himself as a representative of Hezbollah in Iraq. And if Iran is so determined to acquire regional hegemony, they have huge amounts of petro-dollars, they're willing to put those petro-dollars into selling weapons to their friends, they're giving weapons to their friends, and strengthening their position in countries like Iraq, to undermine Ali Sistani.

HH: Does that mean, then, that this is inevitably going to end up as the confrontation between Sunni and Shiia that many people have long foreseen, and would bode very, very poorly for that part of the world?

DG: Well, what I think that the Iranian strategy had been...the Iranians recognize that the Shiia are a minority in the Islamic world. The total number of Shiia in the whole Islamic world are maybe 15%. A majority, 85%, are Sunnis. So they will try and reach across the divide to the Sunnis, and get as many of the Sunni countries on their side. Right now, they have had very limited success. Syria is a country with a 60% Sunni majority, and they're backing Iran, largely through the Alawite sect, which has good relations with the Shiites. But there is a rift here, there is a potential conflict here, and Israel is really a backdrop to a much bigger struggle over oil and dominance in the Middle East.

HH: Now it's late in Israel, but I do want to cover three more subjects with you, Mr. Ambassador. The first is the Lebanon government, and the various conflicting statements coming out of there. You've proposed a hopeful vision that perhaps Lebanon, through this process, becomes strengthened, gets steel, gets assistance to drive Hezbollah from its number. What is the prime minister saying? What about the speaker of the parliament? How do you translate what is being said publicly from the Lebanese officials?

DG: Well, I mean there are leaders, like Jumblatt of the Druse. You do also have Hariri's son, who has the...his coalition in the Lebanese Parliament, and these people have spoken out against Hezbollah. Now what careful diplomacy requires is to focus on those forces inside of Lebanese society who want to get rid of Hezbollah. We're not talking about 52 or 53%. We're probably talking about 80% of Lebanese public. So smart diplomacy, directed, with the backing of Arab states, and armed peace enforcement units, perhaps from Europe, like the French, could tilt the balance inside of Lebanon. You tilt the balance inside of Lebanon against Hezbollah, you solve a lot of problems at once. You strengthen democracy and Israel's security problem in the south of Lebanon/Northern Israel vanishes.

HH: Can you count on France, or other EU countries, to be tough enough, Ambassador Gold? Would they actually shoot with real rounds at Hezbollah? Or will they become an impediment to Israel striking back when necessary against it?

DG: Well, I am not a believer that the peace enforcing force should be on Israel's border. I don't want people protecting Israel. I don't want them to become a shield for Hezbollah. I would rather see that these European forces strengthen the only army in Lebanon that is going to open fire on Hezbollah. It's the Lebanese army. But they'll only do it if they have the full backing of Europeans, Arab states, with America orchestrating this whole move.

HH: All right.Penultimate question. The Wye River negotiations of which you were a participant. Take us back to 1998, if you will. Was the Islamist threat, was the Iranian gambit, were these subjects on the table in those negotiations? Or...they're only eight years ago. But was it foreseen at that time?

DG: There are two parts...there have been two models in Middle East policy in Washington and Jerusalem as well. Some people have said solve the problem with the Palestinians, and everything else will vanish and go away. I think that was a very widely accepted assumption at the time of the Clinton administration. Some of us who were looking at the intelligence at the time saw the wider trends, saw al Qaeda rising, we saw Hezbollah getting stronger, and we felt that somebody's missing the boat. There's a wider conflict here, and Israel's just a small piece in a much bigger puzzle.

HH: Is the Bush administration realistic about what's happening there, and not falling into that old trap?

DG: I think they've been very good in understanding there's a wider conflict here, because we're in a post 9/11 reality. But there are a lot of professionals out there who criticize them, who write op-eds against them, and it's hard to stay strong, and go up against the old, conventional wisdom.
simrud
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7/25/2006  6:15 PM
Ohnestly though, Iran will never have a nuke. Either US will bomb them, or Israel will, or the Russian army will go in (there are 80000 russian troops amassed on the Iranina border right now - 3 full divisions), or the Chinese will move in a couple million troops and prevent that from happening.

Its naive to think that any one of the world powers will let Iran develop nuclear capability. And unlike US, countries like China and Russia don't even need an excuse, however poor it might be act upon a military opeartion.

As a matter of fact the only true tragedy and danger of the middle east is continued destruction of moderate values and movement towards extrimism on all sides that will just end in another war where mostly civilians will die and nothign will change as far as the balane of power is concerned.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
colorfl1
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7/25/2006  6:23 PM
Posted by simrud:

Ohnestly though, Iran will never have a nuke. Either US will bomb them, or Israel will, or the Russian army will go in (there are 80000 russian troops amassed on the Iranina border right now - 3 full divisions), or the Chinese will move in a couple million troops and prevent that from happening.

Evidently. the Iranians feel they like their chances with the Russians and Chinese - both are locked into tech. and arms for fuel deals...
the U.S. would bring on WWIII if they fought Iran.
And Israel well.... need I say more...

It is naive to expect Iran to be intimidated,, they are very proud and saw Pakistan do it... they like their chances...
simrud
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7/25/2006  6:29 PM
The Iranians may feel whatever they want, but I can tell right now what will happen if they push the Russians or the Chinese too far. There will be another magical revolution, and the current government will conviniently cease to exsist, followed by partial occupation and civil unres all trhoughout.

They are just playin tough to get. They'll eventually put out, but they want more incentives. And they want the right guy to screw them, too. Needless to say girls like these don't end well if they push their game too far with the wrong people, right or wrong.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
colorfl1
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7/25/2006  9:07 PM
Posted by simrud:

The Iranians... They are just playin tough to get. They'll eventually put out, but they want more incentives.

The are hardline Mullahs they believe that the prophet will return when the conditions are right... do not under estimate them, they do not fear death, they embrace it with open eyes and feel they are doing the work of Allah. This is a very dangerous game that you describe and I do not feel the world really has the stomach to stop it...
Everyone knows that they are enriching plutonium, they regularly announc their breakthroughs -- you do not see any real appitite in the EU, Russia or China to rock the status quo... no, I would not underestimate the current Iranian regime...
Killa4luv
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7/25/2006  10:46 PM
Robert Fisk: A war crime?
This mother and son were in a convoy fleeing danger yesterday when the Israeli air force bombed the rear minibus, causing carnage.
By Robert Fisk
06/24/07 "The Independent" -- - They are in the schools, in empty hospitals, in halls and mosques and in the streets. The Shia Muslim refugees of southern Lebanon, driven from their homes by the Israelis, are arriving in Sidon by the thousand, cared for by Sunni Muslims and then sent north to join the 600,000 displaced Lebanese in Beirut. More than 34,000 have passed through here in the past four days alone, a tide of misery and anger. It will take years to heal their wounds, and billions of dollars to repair their damaged property.

And who can blame them for their flight? For the second time in eight days, the Israelis committed a war crime yesterday. They ordered the villagers of Taire, near the border, to leave their homes and then - as their convoy of cars and minibuses obediently trailed northwards - the Israeli air force fired a missile into the rear minibus, killing three refugees and seriously wounding 13 other civilians. The rocket that killed them is believed to have been a Hellfire missile made by Lockheed Martin in Florida.

Nine days ago, the Israeli army ordered the inhabitants of a neighbouring village, Marwaheen, to leave their homes and then fired rockets into one of their evacuation trucks, blasting the women and children inside to their deaths. And this is the same Israeli air force which was praised last week by one of Israel's greatest defenders - Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz - because it "takes extraordinary steps to minimise civilian casualties".

Nor have the Israelis spared Sidon. A heap of rubble and pancaked walls is all that is left of the Fatima Zahra mosque, a Hizbollah institution in the centre of the city, its minaret crumbled and its dome now sitting on the concrete, a black flag still flying from its top. When Israeli warplanes came early yesterday morning, the 75-year-old caretaker had no time to run from the building; he died of his wounds hours later. His overturned white plastic chair still lies by the gate. The mosque is unlikely to have been used for military purposes; a school belonging to the Hariris, Sidon's all-powerful Sunni family, stands next door; they would never have allowed weapons into the building.

Not that Hizbollah - which killed two more Israeli civilians with their rockets in Haifa yesterday - have respected Sidon, whose population is 95 per cent Sunni. They tried to fire Iranian-made missiles at Israel from the seafront Corniche and from beside the city slaughterhouse last week. On both occasions, residents physically prevented them from opening fire.

The multimillion-dollar Hariri Foundation - created by the former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, who was assassinated last year - has helped 24,000 Shia refugees out of the south and on to Beirut but its generosity has not always been happily received. One group of refugees sheltering in a technical school in Meheniyeh punched and taunted Hariri workers. Elsewhere, the foundation's staff have been cursed by fleeing families. "They are telling us that we are working for the Americans and that this is why we are taking them out," said Ghena Hariri - Rafik's niece and a Georgetown graduate. "It is something that drains our energy. We are working 24 hours a day and at the end of the day they curse us. But I feel so sorry for them. Now they are being told by the Israelis to leave their villages on foot and they have to walk dozens of kilometres in this heat."

It's not difficult to see how this war can damage the delicate sectarian framework that exists in Lebanon. One group of Shia families - housed in a school in the Druze mountains of the Chouf - tried to put Hizbollah's yellow banners on the roof and members of Walid Jumblatt's Druze Popular Socialist Party had to tear them down. Their act may have saved the refugees' lives.

Yet many of the Shia in this beautiful Crusader port have learnt how kind their Sunni neighbours can be. "We are here - where else can we go?" Nazek Kadnah asked as she sat in the corner of a mosque which Rafik Hariri built and dedicated to his father, Haj Baha'udin Hariri. "But they look after us here as their brothers and sisters and now we are safe."

These sentiments provoke some dark questions. Why, for example, can't these poor people be shown the same compassion from Tony Blair as he supposedly felt for the Muslims of Kosovo when they were being driven from their homes by the Serbs? These thousands are as terrified and homeless as the Kosovo Albanians who fled to Macedonia in 1998 and for whom Mr Blair claimed he was waging a moral war. But for the Shia Muslims sleeping homeless in Sidon there is to be no such moral posturing - and no ceasefire suggestions from Mr Blair, who has aligned himself with the Israelis and the Americans.

And what exactly is the purpose of driving more than half a million people from their homes? Many of these poor people sit clutching their front-door keys, just as the Palestinians of Galilee did when they arrived in Lebanon 58 years ago to spend the rest of their lives as refugees. Yes, the Shia Muslims of Lebanon probably will go home. But to what? A war between the Hizbollah and a Western intervention force? Or further bombardment by the Israelis?

The Sidon refugees now have 36 schools in which they can shelter - but they are the lucky ones. Across southern Lebanon, the innocent continued to die. One was an eight-year-old boy who was killed in an Israeli air raid on a village close to Tyre. Eight more civilians were wounded when an Israeli missile hit a vehicle outside the Najem hospital in Tyre. And during the morning, one of Lebanon's journalists, Layal Nejib, a photographer for the magazine Al-Jaras whose pictures were also transmitted by Agence France Press, was killed in her taxi by an Israeli air strike near Qana, the same village in which 106 civilians were massacred in a UN base by Israeli artillery shells in 1996. She was only 23.

In her marble-walled home above Sidon, Bahia Hariri - Ghena's mother, the sister of the murdered former prime minister and a local member of parliament - sat grim-faced, scarcely controlling her fury. "We are in this terrible situation but we haven't any window to resolve this situation," she said. "Rafik Hariri is no longer with us. The international community is not with us. Who is with us? God. And the old Lebanese. And the Arab world, we hope, will help us. The only resistance we can show is to be a united Lebanon. But we have only a small margin in which to dream."
They are in the schools, in empty hospitals, in halls and mosques and in the streets. The Shia Muslim refugees of southern Lebanon, driven from their homes by the Israelis, are arriving in Sidon by the thousand, cared for by Sunni Muslims and then sent north to join the 600,000 displaced Lebanese in Beirut. More than 34,000 have passed through here in the past four days alone, a tide of misery and anger. It will take years to heal their wounds, and billions of dollars to repair their damaged property.

And who can blame them for their flight? For the second time in eight days, the Israelis committed a war crime yesterday. They ordered the villagers of Taire, near the border, to leave their homes and then - as their convoy of cars and minibuses obediently trailed northwards - the Israeli air force fired a missile into the rear minibus, killing three refugees and seriously wounding 13 other civilians. The rocket that killed them is believed to have been a Hellfire missile made by Lockheed Martin in Florida.

Nine days ago, the Israeli army ordered the inhabitants of a neighbouring village, Marwaheen, to leave their homes and then fired rockets into one of their evacuation trucks, blasting the women and children inside to their deaths. And this is the same Israeli air force which was praised last week by one of Israel's greatest defenders - Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz - because it "takes extraordinary steps to minimise civilian casualties".

Nor have the Israelis spared Sidon. A heap of rubble and pancaked walls is all that is left of the Fatima Zahra mosque, a Hizbollah institution in the centre of the city, its minaret crumbled and its dome now sitting on the concrete, a black flag still flying from its top. When Israeli warplanes came early yesterday morning, the 75-year-old caretaker had no time to run from the building; he died of his wounds hours later. His overturned white plastic chair still lies by the gate. The mosque is unlikely to have been used for military purposes; a school belonging to the Hariris, Sidon's all-powerful Sunni family, stands next door; they would never have allowed weapons into the building.

Not that Hizbollah - which killed two more Israeli civilians with their rockets in Haifa yesterday - have respected Sidon, whose population is 95 per cent Sunni. They tried to fire Iranian-made missiles at Israel from the seafront Corniche and from beside the city slaughterhouse last week. On both occasions, residents physically prevented them from opening fire.

The multimillion-dollar Hariri Foundation - created by the former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, who was assassinated last year - has helped 24,000 Shia refugees out of the south and on to Beirut but its generosity has not always been happily received. One group of refugees sheltering in a technical school in Meheniyeh punched and taunted Hariri workers. Elsewhere, the foundation's staff have been cursed by fleeing families. "They are telling us that we are working for the Americans and that this is why we are taking them out," said Ghena Hariri - Rafik's niece and a Georgetown graduate. "It is something that drains our energy. We are working 24 hours a day and at the end of the day they curse us. But I feel so sorry for them. Now they are being told by the Israelis to leave their villages on foot and they have to walk dozens of kilometres in this heat."
It's not difficult to see how this war can damage the delicate sectarian framework that exists in Lebanon. One group of Shia families - housed in a school in the Druze mountains of the Chouf - tried to put Hizbollah's yellow banners on the roof and members of Walid Jumblatt's Druze Popular Socialist Party had to tear them down. Their act may have saved the refugees' lives.

Yet many of the Shia in this beautiful Crusader port have learnt how kind their Sunni neighbours can be. "We are here - where else can we go?" Nazek Kadnah asked as she sat in the corner of a mosque which Rafik Hariri built and dedicated to his father, Haj Baha'udin Hariri. "But they look after us here as their brothers and sisters and now we are safe."

These sentiments provoke some dark questions. Why, for example, can't these poor people be shown the same compassion from Tony Blair as he supposedly felt for the Muslims of Kosovo when they were being driven from their homes by the Serbs? These thousands are as terrified and homeless as the Kosovo Albanians who fled to Macedonia in 1998 and for whom Mr Blair claimed he was waging a moral war. But for the Shia Muslims sleeping homeless in Sidon there is to be no such moral posturing - and no ceasefire suggestions from Mr Blair, who has aligned himself with the Israelis and the Americans.

And what exactly is the purpose of driving more than half a million people from their homes? Many of these poor people sit clutching their front-door keys, just as the Palestinians of Galilee did when they arrived in Lebanon 58 years ago to spend the rest of their lives as refugees. Yes, the Shia Muslims of Lebanon probably will go home. But to what? A war between the Hizbollah and a Western intervention force? Or further bombardment by the Israelis?

The Sidon refugees now have 36 schools in which they can shelter - but they are the lucky ones. Across southern Lebanon, the innocent continued to die. One was an eight-year-old boy who was killed in an Israeli air raid on a village close to Tyre. Eight more civilians were wounded when an Israeli missile hit a vehicle outside the Najem hospital in Tyre. And during the morning, one of Lebanon's journalists, Layal Nejib, a photographer for the magazine Al-Jaras whose pictures were also transmitted by Agence France Press, was killed in her taxi by an Israeli air strike near Qana, the same village in which 106 civilians were massacred in a UN base by Israeli artillery shells in 1996. She was only 23.

In her marble-walled home above Sidon, Bahia Hariri - Ghena's mother, the sister of the murdered former prime minister and a local member of parliament - sat grim-faced, scarcely controlling her fury. "We are in this terrible situation but we haven't any window to resolve this situation," she said. "Rafik Hariri is no longer with us. The international community is not with us. Who is with us? God. And the old Lebanese. And the Arab world, we hope, will help us. The only resistance we can show is to be a united Lebanon. But we have only a small margin in which to dream."

� 2006 Independent News and Media Limited
Killa4luv
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7/25/2006  10:48 PM
Mushrooms

At the height of the urban crack wars, gangbangers blazing away at each other with AK-47s and Glocks used the term "mushrooms" to describe those civilians unfortunate enough to get caught in the crossfire. A mushroom -- you know, something that just sort of springs up out of nowhere. You didn't mean to shoot it, but hey, you couldn't stop and let the enemy get away. Business is business. Whaddya gonna do?

I'll say this much for the gangbangers: they were and are a bunch of callous thugs, but at least they didn't twist language and logic to make it seem the civilians deserved to be mowed down. That deeper, seamier degradation was left for Alan Dershowitz to explore. And explore it he does in this appalling op-ed piece in the L.A. Times that ought to give a generation of criminal psychology majors the material for dozens of doctoral theses.

You should read the whole thing in order to properly savor the particular rancid aroma of Dershowitz's moral universe, but here's his argument in a nutshell: the term "civilian" is a relic of the days when uniformed armies clashed and non-combatants could be easily identified; since Hezbollah and Hamas deliberately sow their operations within civilian neighborhoods, we can assume that anyone killed in an Israeli bonmbardment of a Lebanese neighborhood is ipso facto a terrorist, or terrorist sympathizer. Particularly when the Israelis have been polite enough to give notice of the areas they intend to destroy:

Hezbollah and Hamas militants, on the other hand, are difficult to distinguish from those "civilians" who recruit, finance, harbor and facilitate their terrorism. Nor can women and children always be counted as civilians, as some organizations do. Terrorists increasingly use women and teenagers to play important roles in their attacks.

The Israeli army has given well-publicized notice to civilians to leave those areas of southern Lebanon that have been turned into war zones. Those who voluntarily remain behind have become complicit. Some -- those who cannot leave on their own -- should be counted among the innocent victims.

If the media were to adopt this "continuum," it would be informative to learn how many of the "civilian casualties" fall closer to the line of complicity and how many fall closer to the line of innocence.

Every civilian death is a tragedy, but some are more tragic than others.


Hey, if you're dumb enough to be window-shopping in the neighborhood when a carload of Bloods decides to take out a couple of Crips standing on the sidewalk, then it's your own stupid fault you got shot. In fact, we should let the Bloods, or the media reporting on the incident, determine how much of a "civilian" you really are -- or were. Just what were you doing there with those Crips in the first place, eh Mr. Innocent Bystander? Under the Dershowitz Doctrine, we're all mushrooms.

There are plenty of wartime precedents for this brand of moral degeneracy, but Dershowitz dare not cite them: it wouldn't win many people over to his side if, for example, he cited the German practice of punishing entire towns, or randomly chosen civilian hostages, in retaliation for Resistance actions during World War II. Instead, executing a rhetorical backflip worthy of the Flying Wallendas, he takes us into domestic criminal law:

The domestic law of crime, in virtually every nation, reflects this continuum of culpability. For example, in the infamous Fall River rape case (fictionalized in the film The Accused), there were several categories of morally and legally complicit individuals: those who actually raped the woman; those who held her down; those who blocked her escape route; those who cheered and encouraged the rapists; and those who could have called the police but did not.

No rational person would suggest that any of these people were entirely free of moral guilt, although reasonable people might disagree about the legal guilt of those in the last two categories. Their accountability for rape is surely a matter of degree, as is the accountability for terrorism of those who work with the terrorists.


So I guess that means Israel, which is currently bombing the Middle East's only promising civil society back into the Stone Age, is really poor Jodi Foster, spread out helpless on the pinball machine. Hezbollah and Hamas are, presumably, raping her. So that means the civilians killed in the immediate bombing, or those likely to die in the rubble-strewn aftermath, are on par with the guys yelling, "One two three four -- pump that ***** till it's sore"? Is Lebanon one of the rapists? Is it one of the spectators? Is it the guy coming in to buy a six-pack who gets knocked down by Jodi Foster as she flees the bar? I need help parsing all the nuances of the Dershowitz dream logic.

I'm curious, Alan -- since Hezbollah continues to fire missiles at Israel regardless of how many sections of Lebanon get moonscaped by Israeli bombs, how does it follow that the people being killed are terrorists, or terrorist supporters? The terrorists are clearly smart enough to keep shifting their positions. The ones catching hell are the civilians we all applauded last year because they demonstrated against the Syrian occupation. Do you think maybe Israel is playing into Hezbollah's hands by radicalizing a new generation through indiscriminate bombing? How about it, Alan? D'yuh think?

Dershowitz is an educated man, so I can only marvel at the Freudian slip involved in his closing the column with, "Every civilian death is a tragedy, but some are more tragic than others." Surely Dershowitz has read George Orwell's Animal Farm, in which the animals who have just overthrown their human overseer proclaim that "All animals are equal," only to see the slogan perverted into "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." And he must also be aware of the ending, in which the exploited animals peer through the window as their leaders enjoy dinner with the local humans, and find themselves unable to tell the two sides apart.

You know, it is a pretty appropriate reference after all. Just not in the way Alan Dershowitz intended.

(Posted by Steven Hart, 7/24/06)
Rich
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7/25/2006  11:09 PM
Why would we sacrifice one American life for this piece of s h it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/world/middleeast/20shiites.html?_r=1&ex=1153713600&en=78691f5524ed9816&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin

Iraqi Prime Minister Denounces Israel’s Actions
martin
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7/26/2006  9:56 AM
Israel Is Within Its Rights
By David B. Rivkin Jr. and Lee A. Casey

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/25/AR2006072501300.html

Israel's operations against Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza have been widely condemned in Europe, the Arab world and at the United Nations as violations of international law. Some of the critics seem to deny that Israel has any legitimate right to use force. Others, while acknowledging its right to self-defense, nevertheless regard its exercise in these cases as illegal. Israel's alleged offenses include treating mere "terrorist" attacks as an excuse to attack Lebanon, using disproportionate force, causing excessive civilian casualties and refusing to contemplate an immediate cease-fire.

In fact, Israel's conduct has been fully compliant with the applicable norms of international law.

The primary claim by Israel's critics is that it used force disproportionately in response to Hezbollah's initial attack against Israeli soldiers, eight of whom were killed and two captured. The underlying assumption appears to be that Israel should have treated these provocations as terrorist acts and limited its response accordingly, rather than as justifications for a full-scale attack on Lebanese territory.

But in determining the existence of a legitimate casus belli , a state is entitled to consider the entire context of the threat it faces. Hezbollah is not simply a terrorist gang, like Germany's Baader-Meinhof or Italy's Red Brigades. It is a substantial political and military organization that has more than 12,000 short- and medium-range rockets and that has operated freely on Lebanese territory for many years, periodically launching attacks against Israel. Its stated goal is Israel's destruction, and it is the client of a major regional power -- Iran -- whose government appears dedicated to the same goal.

Moreover, although international law requires a state to have a lawful reason to use force -- such as self-defense -- it does not mandate that a state limit its military response to "tit for tat" actions. Once a country has suffered an armed attack, it is entitled to identify the source of that attack and to eliminate its adversary's ability to attack again. Its actions must be consistent with otherwise applicable international norms, but it is not required to accept a limited conflict that fails to meet and resolve the danger it faces.

That Lebanon has suffered from Israel's actions does not change the legal rules involved. No state has the right to permit a foreign military force to use its territory to launch attacks against another country. Indeed, every country has an obligation to control its own territory. Lebanon's failure (or refusal) to expel Hezbollah would in and of itself have been a legitimate cause for Israeli military action. It was the Taliban's sheltering of al-Qaeda that was the basis of the U.S. attack on Afghanistan in 2001. And, although the current Lebanese government is certainly more democratic than the feudalistic Taliban, democratic credentials cannot insulate a state from responsibility for controlling its territory.

The specific aspects of Israel's military operations in Lebanon and Gaza have also been condemned as being disproportionate and as thereby violating the laws of war. Although there is some grim humor in the spectacle of Russian President Vladimir Putin, whose troops have ravaged Chechnya, criticizing Israel for a "disproportionate" use of force, the claims -- including dark warnings from Louise Arbour, U.N. high commissioner for human rights, about "war crimes" liability for Israel's leaders -- are without merit.

An army must always eschew deliberate attacks on civilians and consider whether the military advantage to be gained from an operation is sufficiently important to justify potential collateral damage to civilians. But this does not mean that installations and infrastructure, such as airports, bridges and the power grid, cannot be legally attacked. These are all dual-use targets -- having a civilian character but also clear military value. Indeed, in NATO's 1999 war against Serbia, exactly the same set of targets was attacked -- with the agreement and approval of the European governments involved. In the current conflict, Israel's primary military purpose in attacking these targets appears to be to cut Hezbollah's supply lines, not to punish Lebanon.

Similarly, the occurrence of civilian casualties, or the fact that more Lebanese civilians have died than Israelis, does not prove that Israel has used disproportionate force. The law forbids an operation only if the hoped-for military benefit would be clearly disproportionate to the likely injury to the civilian population. Proportionality, however, must be calculated in the context of the entire conflict, and any civilian lives lost must be balanced against civilian lives saved.

Unfortunately, heavy civilian casualties are the inherent and inevitable result of the type of asymmetric warfare deliberately waged by Hezbollah and similar groups. They intentionally operate from civilian areas, both to protect their military capabilities from attack and to increase civilian deaths, which can then be trumpeted for propaganda purposes. But the presence of a large civilian population does not immunize Hezbollah or Hamas forces from attack. Responsibility for any additional civilian casualties must be attributed to those groups, not to Israel. The adoption of any other rule would reward and encourage the illegal behavior of such "unlawful" combatants, which would simply result in more danger to innocent civilians in the future.

Israel may legally seek victory in Lebanon, even if it requires a combination of ground and air operations, takes weeks to accomplish and results in civilian casualties. It is under no obligation to agree to an early cease-fire unless the terms of that agreement would vindicate its legitimate war aims: the security of its population from attack.

The legal rights Israel is exercising to defend itself today are the very same legal rights on which the United States must rely in the war on terrorism. Attempts to revise the traditional laws of war -- moving toward a law-enforcement paradigm -- so that law-abiding states cannot effectively protect their own populations from attack or even defend their territory from armed incursion are not humanitarian advances. They simply make the world safer for those who reject any notion of law in war.

The writers are Washington lawyers who served in the Justice Department under presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. They are members of the U.N. Sub-Commission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights.
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7/26/2006  9:59 AM
IDF sources said an extremely difficult phase of the battle developed when soldiers encountered terrorists face to face, accompanied by the setting off of explosives and the firing of various missiles.
Many terrorists apparently operated in the area and launched a combined attack against IDF forces. In the course of fighting a number of terrorists were killed.
Fire ceased during the afternoon hours.
The fighting in Bint Jbeil began when IDF forces, including Golani Brigade soldiers, began searching buildings suspected of being used to provide infrastructures for terrorists.
On Tuesday, many weapons in some of the homes were found, and rooms have been turned into war rooms for Hizbullah members.
On Tuesday morning, during early searches, fire was opened on forces, who returned fire. A number of terrorists fled into a mosque in the area and continued to fire from within the structure at soldiers.
Last week, a missile launcher was found in the mosque, IDF sources said.

"Hizbullah members don't discount any means to kill or injure, including the use of civilians as a holy human shields. If there will be no choice, we will hit every place from which they shoot at our forces," a military source told Ynet.
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7/26/2006  11:02 AM
Hezzbolah and Al-Quada are misunderstood "militants"...

Khobar Towers bombing
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Building #131 after the explosion
Khobar Towers is part of a housing complex in the city of Khobar, Saudi Arabia near the national oil company (Saudi Aramco) headquarters of Dhahran. In 1996, it was being used to house foreign military personnel, including Americans. On June 25, 1996, individuals identified as terrorist members of Hezbollah by the United States, exploded a fuel truck adjacent to Building #131 in the housing complex. This eight-story building housed United States Air Force personnel from the 4404th Wing, primarily from a deployed rescue squadron and deployed fighter squadron. In all, 19 U.S. servicemen and one Saudi were killed and 372 of many nationalities were wounded. This event has come to be known as the Khobar Towers bombing.
According to the United States, a group of terrorists who wanted to remove Americans from Saudi Arabia organized the attack. Suspicious activity was reported in the area of the Khobar Towers compound in the weeks preceding the attack and during the month of May, 1996 the U.S. military local area threat condition (THREATCON) was at its highest level, Delta, due to a recent terrorist bombing in Bahrain that killed 3 people.
The terrorists were reported to have smuggled explosives into Saudi Arabia from Lebanon. In Saudi Arabia, they purchased a large truck used for sewage treatment, called a "honey pot" by U.S. troops in the area and then converted it into a bomb. It was originally estimated by U.S. authorities to have contained 3,000 to 5,000 pounds of explosives. Later the General Downing report on the incident raised the probability that the explosion contained the TNT equivalence of 20,000 to 30,000 Pounds of TNT.


The crater
Initially, the attackers attempted to enter the compound at the main check point. When they were denied access by U.S. military personnel, at around 9:43 P.M. local time, they drove three vehicles, two cars and the bomb truck, to a parking lot adjacent to building #131. A chain link security fence and a line of small trees separated the parking lot, used for a local mosque, from the housing compound. The perimeter of Building #131 was approximately 90 feet from the fence line. The first car entered the parking lot and signaled the others by flashing headlights. The bomb truck and a getaway vehicle followed shortly after. The men parked the truck next to the fence and left in the third vehicle. The bomb exploded between three and four minutes later at approximately 9:50 P.M. local time.
An American sentry, Air Force Staff Sergeant Alfredo R. Guerrero, was stationed atop Building #131. He witnessed the men, recognized the vehicles as a threat, reported it to security, and began a floor by floor evacuation of the building. His actions are credited with saving dozens of lives. Many of the evacuees were in the stairwell when the bomb went off. The stairwell was on the side of the building away from the truck bomb, perhaps the safest location in the building. For his actions, Staff Sergeant Guerrero was awarded the Airman's Medal, the United States' highest peacetime award for valor.
Another security measure also is thought to have minimized damage. Along the security fence were Jersey barriers, concrete barriers commonly used along roadways. These deflected the blast energy upward, and away from the lower floors of the building, perhaps even preventing a total collapse of the structure.


The crater remaining after the truck bomb explosion, building #131 is on the right
The force of the explosion was enormous. The size of the charge created an intense duststorm as the forces of the high pressure blast wave and the subsequent vacuum forces caused considerable damage in their own right. Several military vehicles parked to the left side of building #131 suffered no direct impact from debris, but were heavily damaged by the sheer intensity of the shock wave.
It heavily damaged or destroyed six high rise apartment buildings in the complex. Windows were shattered in virtually every other building in the compound and in surrounding buildings up to a mile away. An enormous crater, 85 feet wide and 35 feet deep, was left where the truck had been and within a few hours was swelling up partially with saltwater from the Persian Gulf, which is only six miles away. The blast was even felt by some 20 miles away in the Persian Gulf state of Bahrain. In the minutes following the blast, the residents of the complex made numerous evacuations of severely injured U. S. military personnel from the area and with power out in many of the buildings nearby #131, the scene was chaotic and tense as little was known about the safety of the area from further attacks. Many residents later gathered in the local dining facility, set up as a triage center and ironically saw breaking news of the event on large projection televisions intended to bring news of events back home to the troops.
On June 21, 2001 an indictment was issued in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Virginia charging the following people with murder, conspiracy, and other charges related to the bombing:
Ahmed Ibrahim Al-Mughassil
Abdelkarim Hussein Mohamed Al-Nasser
Ali Saed Bin Ali El-Hoorie
Ibrahim Salih Mohammed Al-Yacoub
Nine other Saudis
One Lebanese man listed as "John Doe."
The remaining five were Sa'ed Al-Bahar, Saleh Ramadan, Ali Al-Marhoun, Mustafa Al-Mu'alem and Fadel Al-Alawe.
In 2004, the 9/11 Commission noted that Osama Bin Laden was seen being congratulated on the day of the Khobar attack, and this raised the possibility that he may have helped the group, possibly by helping to obtain the explosives or the sophisticated timing device used to enable the escape of the perpetrators. According to the United States, classfied evidence suggests that the government of Iran was the key sponsor of the incident, and several high ranking members of their military may have been involved. The U.S. government may have been hesitant to more aggressively pursue the offenders within the Iranian military due to the recent rise of a more reformist government and a desire to enhance relations with Iran at this time.
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7/26/2006  12:01 PM
http://www.tnr.com/docprint.mhtml?i=w060724&s=halevi072606


WHY ISRAEL FIGHTS.
Drawing the Line
by Yossi Klein Halevi
Only at TNR Online
Post date: 07.26.06
Three times in the last century, the Jewish people has found itself on the front line against totalitarian ideologies with aspirations to rule the world, and which defined the Jewish people as its primary obstacle in fulfilling that goal. For Nazism, the Jew was not only the source of racial impurity but inventor of conscience, crippling humanity's survival instincts in an amoral world. For Soviet communism, the Jew was the source of capitalism, and Zionism the front line of imperialism. And now, for fundamentalist Islam, the Jew is the satanic enemy, and the Jewish state an abomination against God that must be destroyed.

Though Israeli officials are calling the conflict with Hezbollah and Hamas an "operation," it is, in fact, a war. Ultimately, the war will transcend its Iranian proxies and engage Iran itself. One crucial result must be the destruction of Iran's nuclear capability, which would provide the religious genocidalists with the ability to turn theology into practice. Imagine Israel confronting a Hezbollah backed by a nuclear Iran. Would we be able to defend our northern border knowing that an attack on Hezbollah could provoke an Iranian nuclear attack against Tel Aviv? That prospect is not inconceivable: Iranian leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad believes that the Muslim messianic age is about to be inaugurated by the destruction of Israel. Certainly Israel has the capacity to deliver an overwhelming second strike. But the balance of terror that worked during the cold war against the Soviet Union may fail against an enemy that welcomes death as a prelude to eternal life. A nuclear Iran could be the ultimate suicide bomber.

The war of the missiles in Lebanon and in Gaza is actually the second stage of the war that began six years ago. Erroneously, self-defeatingly, Israelis accepted the Palestinian terminology, and called the wave of Islamist suicide bombings that started in September 2000 "the second intifada." Unlike the intifada of the late 1980s, however, which united Palestinian Christians and Muslims against the occupation, the war that began in 2000 has been led by Islamists, after Israel tried to end the occupation. Not coincidentally, there have been no Christian suicide bombers. The Palestinian cause had shifted from national struggle to jihad.

Nevertheless, some insist on distinguishing between Hezbollah and Hamas. While Hezbollah is an operational extension of the Shia Iranian revolution, Hamas, they argue, represents the national aspirations of the Palestinian people. In fact, Hamas represents the undoing of Palestinian national aspirations. For Hamas, a Palestinian state is merely a means to an end: the resurrection of the medieval Caliphate and the transformation of the Middle East into a single Islamist state. The rise of Hamas, then, has completed the process, which began with the suicide bombings, of Islamizing the conflict. The so-called second intifada has destroyed the achievement of the first intifada, which convinced a majority of Israelis that former Prime Minister Golda Meir had been wrong to insist there was no Palestinian people and that a distinct Palestinian identity had indeed emerged. In rejecting mere nationalism, Hamas is returning the Palestinians to their pre-national consciousness, when Palestinians were part of an amorphous Arab or Muslim identity. The first casualty of the jihad, then, has been a viable Palestinian national identity, and, with it, the possibility of a viable Palestinian state.

What unites Shia Hezbollah and Sunni Hamas is the theology of genocide. Both organizations preach that the Holocaust never happened, even as they actively plan the next one. According to the Hamas Covenant, every ill in the world, from the French Revolution to the two world wars, was provoked by the Jews. For its part, Hezbollah's Al Manar TV station spread the story that the Mossad was behind September 11 and warned 4,000 Jews who worked in the Twin Towers to stay home that day--a calumny that was accepted, according to polls, by majorities throughout the Muslim world.

The grievance of the Islamists isn't only that they were conquered and occupied but that they have failed, so far, to conquer and occupy. Like Hezbollah, Hamas won't "moderate" with the responsibility of power. To believe otherwise is to underestimate the power of religion. For Hamas is not a political movement but a faith. And for Hamas to abandon its goal of Israel's destruction is to commit heresy against the core of that faith. Religious change, even among fundamentalists, is surely possible; but it is a process measured not in months but in decades, or centuries.



n targeting Lebanon and Gaza, Israel is sending a simultaneous message: It is time for the Arab world to take responsibility for its actions. What Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas and Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Siniora share is a helplessness--to some extent self-inflicted--against the terrorists in their midst. In large measure, the Oslo process failed because the international community allowed Palestinians to continue to act as victims, rather than as responsible peace partners prepared to exploit the extraordinary circumstances they enjoyed for creating a state. Those circumstances included virtually unlimited international political and financial support, and the willingness of a majority of Israelis--induced, in part, by a justifiable guilty conscience--to consider previously unthinkable scenarios, like ceding part of Jerusalem to Yasir Arafat. Imagine what the Tibetans or the Kurds could have done with that level of political goodwill and foreign aid. Indeed, billions of dollars in international aid have gone to the Palestinian Authority. Perhaps the greatest defeat the Palestinians inflicted on themselves was to lose the patience of at least part of the international community and, most of all, the Israeli guilty conscience.

Yet many continue to indulge Palestinian rejectionism. Astonishingly, Israel still needs to prove that it offered a credible and contiguous Palestinian state at Camp David in July 2000, and not, as Palestinian leaders put it, a series of "Bantustans." What doubt remained from Camp David should have been dispelled five months later when Israel accepted President Clinton's proposals--ceding almost the entirety of the West Bank, all of Gaza, and three-quarters of the Old City of Jerusalem. The Palestinian counter-offer was suicide bombings.

The tendency of much of the international community to excuse every Palestinian failure has helped convince Palestinians that victimization--even when it is self-willed--affords immunity from responsibility. Many foreign journalists with whom I've spoken in recent weeks accept the Palestinian argument that the rocket attacks from the 1967 Gaza border into sovereign Israel are legitimate, or at least understandable, given that Israel continues to occupy the West Bank. Yet that argument ignores the historic Palestinian failure to exploit the Gaza withdrawal, which created the first sovereign Palestinian territory. Had the Palestinians shown the most minimal effort at statebuilding--for example, applying foreign aid to rehabilitate refugee camps--the Israeli public would have supported a return to the negotiating table. Instead, the Palestinian national movement proved again that it is more keen on subverting the Jewish state than on creating a Palestinian state. And so one more opportunity for a negotiated end to the conflict was lost.

In conversations I've had over the years with Palestinians, invariably my interlocutor would offer a version of the following: You and I, we are little people. The "big ones" are only interested in themselves. They don't care if we suffer. I used to find that sentiment moving, an attempt by Palestinians to create a common humanity with Israelis. But now I see it as an expression of self-induced helplessness, precisely why the Palestinians and the Lebanese have allowed our common tragedy to reach this point.

Israel's attack on Lebanon, holding it responsible for what occurs in its territory, is not a violation of Lebanese sovereignty but an affirmation of it. And in targeting the democratically elected Hamas government, Israel is telling the Palestinians that there is a price to pay for empowering the theology of genocide. If the only alternative to a corrupt Fatah that Palestinian society can generate is a non-corrupt Hamas, then Palestine will become a pariah. Israel's policy, then, is to stop patronizing the Lebanese and the Palestinians and relate to them as adults responsible for their fate.

Some in the Arab world are beginning to understand this. In an article published in the Kuwaiti newspaper Arab Times, the editor-in-chief, Ahmed Al Jarallah, wrote:

This war was inevitable as the Lebanese government couldn't bring Hezbollah within its authority and make it work for the interests of Lebanon. Similarly leader of the Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas has been unable to rein in the Hamas movement. Unfortunately we must admit that in such a war the only way to get rid of 'these irregular phenomena' is what Israel is doing. The operations of Israel in Gaza and Lebanon are in the interest of the people of Arab countries and the international community.
The war, then, is not only inciting Islamists, but may, potentially, embolden moderates. The extraordinary Saudi--along with Egyptian and Jordanian--condemnation of Hezbollah marks the first time in any of Israel's wars that a significant chunk of the Arab world has publicly blamed Arab aggression for starting hostilities. This could create an opening for a tacit Israeli alliance with moderate Arabs against the Islamist, and particularly Iranian, threat. Just as we need to be resolute against the pathologies of the Middle East, so we need to be open to its changes. The responsibility of the people of Israel is not only to be on the front line against terror but to be on the front line for reconciliation. Not only to help stop evil, but to help empower the good.



o far, Israel enjoys three crucial strategic advantages in this war: unequivocal American support, a divided Arab world, and, most crucial of all, a united Israeli people. Arguably not since the 1973 Yom Kippur War has Israel been as determined in war as it is today. Though some restlessness has begun--an antiwar rally in Tel Aviv drew 2,500 people--most of the left supports the invasion. Indeed, Peace Now and other Zionist left-wing groups stayed away from the Tel Aviv rally. One reason for the absence of serious left-wing opposition is the fact that Amir Peretz, our most dovish mainstream politician, happens to be running the war as defense minister. Peretz's ideological credentials are compensation for his lack of military ones: Just as Ariel Sharon helped insure broad support for withdrawal from Gaza, so Peretz is insuring broad support for the reinvasion of Gaza and Lebanon.

Most of the left understands that this is a war, in part, for the viability of the concept of territorial withdrawal. For years the left assured the Israeli public that, in the event of withdrawal, Israel would resist any subsequent aggression with determination, unity, and international legitimacy. In Lebanon and Gaza, then, two fronts from which Israel has already withdrawn to the green line (Israel also withdrew to the green line on the Egyptian border in 1982), that premise is now being tested. If the left defects from the war effort, triggering international pressure, then the Israeli public will rightly despair of future withdrawals.

Most of all, this is a war for the viability of Israeli deterrence. After Israel unilaterally withdrew from Lebanon in May 2000, Hezbollah leader Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah described the Jewish state as a "spider web": Just as a spider web seems solid from a distance but disintegrates when swiped, so Israel will collapse under the pressure of Arab resolve. The "spider web" speech, as it came to be known, is very much in the mind of Israelis today as we belatedly try to restore our lost deterrence, without which the Jewish state will not survive long in the Middle East.

Israel tried to avoid this war, to the point of endangering its most basic credibility. For months we allowed Palestinian groups to shell Israeli towns on the Gaza border with virtual immunity. And for six years we turned away as Iran supplied Hezbollah with thousands of long-range rockets and built a vast infrastructure literally meters across our border. When three Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hezbollah in October 2000, then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak didn't massively retaliate, preferring to negotiate a prisoner exchange. Among some Israeli journalists, Nasrallah was considered a "responsible" leader, capable of insuring quiet in the north, rather than biding his time and awaiting instructions from Iran to act.

The Jewish people is once again being forced to act as a brake against evil. This is not a repetition of the first Lebanon war, but a return to our consensus wars of survival--not a Vietnam moment but a World War II moment. That is why Israel fights, and why it will win.

Yossi Klein Halevi is a foreign correspondent for The New Republic and senior fellow of the Shalem Center in Jerusalem.
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7/26/2006  12:28 PM
civilian casualties in World War II...

http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/frame5.html


There is no such thing as a good war, war is never good... but at times necessary.
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7/26/2006  12:31 PM

Israeli Bombs Kills 4 UN Observers

An Israeli air strike has killed four United Nations (UN) military observers at their base in southern Lebanon, the UN says.

From the archives - Scenes Of Israeli Massacre At UN Compound in Lebanon - 1996 Warning! - This video is very graphic and should only be viewed by a mature audience.

By Reuters

07/26/06 "ABC" -- -- UN secretary-general Kofi Annan is calling on Israel to investigate the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the base.

"I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defence Forces of a UN Observer post in southern Lebanon," Mr Annan said.

"This coordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long-established and clearly marked UN post at Khiam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that UN positions would be spared Israeli fire."

UN officials say there had been 14 incidents of firing close to the outpost from Israeli forces in the afternoon before it was hit.

"One aerial bomb directly impacted the building and shelter in the base of the United Nations Observer Group in Lebanon in the area of Khiam," spokesman Milos Strugar said.

Mr Strugar says the firing continued even as rescue operations were under way at the collapsed building.

Investigation

An Israeli Army spokeswoman says the military is investigating the report.

Mr Annan says the UN force commander in southern Lebanon, General Alain Pelligrini, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day.

He says the General had stressed the need to protect the UN post.

"I call on the Government of Israel to conduct a full investigation into this very disturbing incident and demand that any further attack on UN positions and personnel must stop," Mr Annan said.

A US State Department official says Israel has told the United States the air strike was an accident.

"It was a terrible tragedy. we have heard from the Israelis that it was an accident," the official said, who is in Rome with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, said.

He has no further details.

Mr Annan says the names and nationalities of the dead peacekeepers are being withheld pending notification of their families.

The hilltop town of Khiam, close to the Israeli border, sheltered an infamous prison during Israel's 22-year occupation of south Lebanon to 2000 but is now a Hezbollah stronghold.

UNIFIL was created in 1978 after Israel's first major invasion of southern Lebanon and has been there ever since.

The United Nations has called for a bigger, better armed, more robust international force in the area.

In case you missed it - Video: Scenes Of Israeli Massacre At UN Compound in Lebanon - 1996 - Warning! - This video is very graphic and should only be viewed by a mature audience.
- Reuters

fyi, this is nothing new http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/quana_01_19_03.htm video of 1996 Israel bombing of UN Compound
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7/26/2006  12:41 PM
Rules of war in recent history...

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june03/iraq_06-19.html

MARGARET WARNER: And there were instances where the U.S. did aim either bombs or ground fire at places that there were civilians, were there not?

COL. SAMUEL GARDINER: Yes, yes. Despite the up-front setup that we weren't going to do it, on a couple of occasions, the decision was made clearly to attack civilian areas. The most famous was on the 9th of April, when the restaurant, and where we thought the leadership was, twenty-eight people from the leadership. And it turns out probably three families were killed, and we haven't heard whether or not any of the leadership was there at all. Other instances when we were at Chemical Ali, the same thing, the neighborhood was deliberately attacked and the assumption was that... in the military logic, if military people are using civilian facilities, then it's a legitimate target.

MARGARET WARNER: And they're using it... using them for human shields essentially...

COL. SAMUEL GARDINER: Yes.

MARGARET WARNER: ...Or civilian shields.

COL. SAMUEL GARDINER: Yes.

MARGARET WARNER: Professor Roland, if we take this number, 3,240, even accepting what Mr. Price says, that it's probably quite low, is this high, or how does it stack up by historical standards?

ALEX ROLAND: That's a good question. We don't have good historical data on civilian casualties from wars, for the simple reason that the victors get to count at the end, and very seldom is it in the interest of the victors to count up the civilian casualties that, by and large, they have inflicted. We've also never had a war quite like this; that is the combination of the political circumstance and the military circumstance in Iraq, our use of precision weapons and our rules of engagement on the ground. So, it's hard to compare. My personal sense is this is probably higher than the Defense Department would have wanted. And it begs the question of why, with all our obvious efforts to avoid civilian casualties, we're still getting numbers in the thousands. There are three possibilities. One is that the intelligence for the precision-guided munitions might not be accurate. One is that the munitions themselves aren't working. And the third one, that the colonel alluded to, is that our rules of engagement for the ground forces might be bringing on more civilian casualties than we would want.

MARGARET WARNER: All right, go back to the historical examples, though, in terms of coming up with some kind of count, if we look at World War II or conflicts since then. I mean, were there times in which it was political on both sides, either whether they talked about the casualties or not, or where they set the casualty numbers?

ALEX ROLAND: Yes, of course. If you take the Russo-German war, which was the largest war within World War II, that entailed an enormous amount of nationalistic and ethnic hostility between the Russians and the Germans, and there were horrors on both sides of that war, horrors inflicted upon the civilian population. Nor was the United States immune to this problem during World War II, because, of course, we and the British were engaged in strategic bombing against Germany, and then, of course, we were engaged in strategic bombing against Japan. And at the outset of the war, we foreswore bombing civilian populations, but our bombing technology proved inadequate. And by the end of the war, we were clearly bombing cities and accepting the enormous civilian casualties involved.
Killa4luv
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7/26/2006  2:14 PM
^^^^^So this is the logic you use to justify it?

I dont care who says its ok to bomb civilian areas, there is a such thing as the Geneva convention, and more importantly there is a such thing as ethics and morality. There is no moral or ethical justification for killing all of these civilians.

And btw, is this an admission that Israel is bombing civilians on purpose? Either way, its pretty apparent they are.

And back to terrorism.
The spirit of the King David Hotel
By Tom Segev

The terror attack on the King David Hotel in Jerusalem was in its day the equivalent of the Twin Towers; yesterday was its 60th anniversary. There are two historic plaques at the hotel, one of whose wings was used by the British Mandate authority. On one of the plaques, which has been hanging there for some time, a few words note the terror attack: "On July 22, 1946, the Etzel underground bombed the southern wing." The action is attributed to Etzel alone, but there is no condemnation. "Underground" generally has a positive connotation.

The unveiling of the other plaque this week was meant to cap an academic conference held at the Menachem Begin Heritage Center on the issue of who is a freedom fighter and who is a terrorist. It was quite a week to clarify such a question. They can be distinguished by organizational affiliation, goals, targets, means of combat and mode of operation. They all assume that a freedom fighter is a good person and a terrorist is a bad one. Nearly every terrorist defines himself as a freedom fighter, and vice versa: freedom fighters are usually defined as terrorists. So was Begin. He invested a lot of effort to convince history that he was not a terrorist. Among other things, he emphasized that his organization did not harm civilians. There's a thesis that could serve as an historic lesson from a moral standpoint: not harming civilians.

The new plaque identifies the perpetrators of the attack as "Etzel fighters." It's important for them to emphasize that they acted "under orders from the Hebrew rebel movement," in other words, the Hagannah, among others. They called the hotel switchboard, the editorial offices of the Palestine Post, and the French Embassy (presumably they meant the consulate) "to prevent casualties." In other words, they sought a terrorist attack without casualties, but something went wrong. Twenty-five minutes went by and then "for some reason" the British did not evacuate the building "and as a result" 91 people were "regrettably" killed. There were 28 British, 41 Arabs, 17 Jews and five others. To emphasize the military aspect of the operation, the plaque notes that one of the Etzel people was killed "in an exchange of fire."

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The British government is demanding the plaque's removal. Her Majesty's ambassador and the consul have written to the mayor of Jerusalem that such an act of terror cannot be honored, even if it was preceded by a warning. To this day, it is not clear what made the bombing's planners believe the British would evacuate the building. Would Benjamin Netanyahu, as prime minister, have ordered his bureau evacuated on the basis of telephone threat from a Palestinian terror group?

Netanyahu spoke at the conference. The difference between a terrorist operation and a legitimate military action is expressed, he said, in the fact that the terrorists intend to harm civilians whereas legitimate combatants try to avoid that. According to that theory, the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier by a Palestinian organization is a legitimate military operation, and the bombing of Dresden, Hanoi, Haifa or Beirut is a war crime. Of course this is not what Netanyahu meant. He learned only this from the bombing of the hotel: that the Arabs are bad and we are good. Arab actions starting in 1920 and through the Iranian nuclear plan reflect, in his words, "a terrorist mentality." Israel, on the other hand, only harms civilians by accident or when there is no alternative. For example, when terrorists hide among civilians.

The historic truth is different: In the 60 years since the attack at the King David Hotel, Israel has hurt some two million civilians, including 750,000 who lost their homes in 1948, another quarter million Palestinians who were forced to leave the West Bank in the Six-Day War and hundreds of thousands of Egyptian civilians who were expelled from the cities along the Suez Canal during the War of Attrition. And now tens of thousands of Lebanese villagers are being forced to abandon their homes, and air force pilots are once again bombing Beirut and other cities. Hundreds of civilians have been killed. Regrettably. It's all in the spirit of the King David Hotel. One can always say there was a mishap.

But again, I guess if they say they didn't mean to kill civilians, its almost like no civilians died.

Killa4luv
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7/26/2006  2:15 PM
Why Is Israel Destroying Lebanon?

By Patrick Seale

07/25/06 "Al-Hayat" 07/21/07 --- - Israel is waging a war of extermination in Lebanon. Without regard to the civilian population, it is seeking to destroy Hizballah, much as it has attempted over the past six months to destroy Hamas in the occupied Palestinian territories. It wants to root out these movements altogether.
Its strategy in Lebanon seems to be to empty the south of its population, driving the Shi'ites out of their traditional homeland, where they have lived for centuries, in much the same way as it continues its pitiless onslaught on Gaza. In Lebanon, some 600,000 people have already been displaced, while the entire country is being brutalized and strangled.

Why this Israeli savagery? By their cross-border raids and the capture of three Israeli soldiers, Hizballah and Hamas humiliated the Israeli army and dented its deterrent capability. In Israeli eyes, this cannot go unpunished. It is determined to bring home to the Arabs the tremendous cost of daring to attack Israel.

The Israeli army has a score to settle with Hizballah which, by guerrilla harassment, drove it out of Lebanon in 2000, ending its 22-year occupation of the south. With this success, Hizballah demonstrated to the whole Arab world - and to the Palestinians in particular -- that Israel was not invincible. Now Israel is trying to set the record straight.

No doubt some Israeli hawks, like chief of staff Dan Halutz, regret the 'unfinished business' of Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon when, having killed 17,000 Lebanese and Palestinians, it failed to secure the political reward of bringing a submissive Lebanon into its orbit.
This time, too, Israel may find that its war aim of destroying Hizballah and Hamas is unattainable. These are popular movements enjoying mass support. If crushed in the short-term, they will eventually spring back to life and seek revenge. To 'win', Israel would have to kill, not just hundreds, but hundreds of thousands, of people.

Hizballah's leader, Shaikh Hassan Nasrallah -- Israel's 'Enemy Number One' -- has repeatedly warned Israel to expect 'surprises'. The missile attacks on Haifa, Israel's third largest city, and the disabling of one of Israel's most advanced warships, were certainly painful surprises. They carried the war into Israel's home territory, posing a severe challenge to Israel's strategic doctrine, which has always been to fight its wars on Arab territory.

The greatest 'surprise' Hizballah's might still have up its sleeve would be to survive the present crisis, bloody but unbowed. The longer Hizballah holds out, the greater Israel's problems with the international community, and the greater the pressure of Arab opinion on those Arab regimes that have so far stood shiftily on the sidelines.

Israel has always relied on brute force to ensure its security. Since its creation in 1948, it has sought to dominate the region by military means. This doctrine rests on the belief that the Arabs will never be strong enough, or capable enough, to challenge it. This is a fundamentally racist attitude.

But beneath the bluster and the muscle-flexing lies a deep-seated paranoia and insecurity, reflected in the conviction, shared by many of Israel's citizens, that the Arabs want to kill them and that they face a permanent existential threat. The choice, they seem to believe, is between killing or being killed. This dark view of their environment - something of a self-fulfilling prophecy -- goes some way to explaining the extravagantly disproportionate nature of Israel's attacks and its blatant disregard for international legality and any semblance of morality.

Israel is able to behave in this way because it has been given extraordinary immunity by the United States. A striking aspect of the crisis is, indeed, America's total political, diplomatic and strategic support for Israel -- even to the point of rushing to give it $300 million of aviation fuel with which to continue smashing Lebanon!

America's gross bias has paralysed the Security Council, the G8 and the European Union. So great is American pressure that none of these bodies has been able to insist on an immediate end to the Israeli onslaught. Britain dutifully followed its American Big Brother in repeating the mantra that 'Israel has the right to defend itself', while even France, Lebanon's traditional protector, has tended to put the blame on Hizballah, rather than Israel, for the massive destruction and loss of life.

Terrorism is usually defined as the indiscriminate killing of civilians in pursuit of political goals. Is this not what Israel is doing in both Lebanon and Gaza? It is killing large numbers of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians in pursuit of its political aim of annihilating Hizballah and Hamas. By any objective standard, Israel is guilty of state terrorism.

But killing Arabs in this wanton manner and smashing their countries must inevitably have negative consequences for Israel's own security. Israel's terrorist behaviour legitimizes the terrorism of its enemies. And America's uncritical support for Israel legitimises terrorism against the United States itself. That is what 9/11 was all about, although to this day the United States has not faced up to why it was attacked. The United States and Israel are sowing the wind and will reap the whirlwind.

Washington's unconditional backing for Israel highlights the fact that this is not simply a war between Israel and Hizballah. By seeking to bomb Lebanon into submission, Israel intends to strike a blow at the Iran-Syria-Hizballah axis, which has challenged US-Israeli dominance in the region. The key issue is whose will is to prevail in this vital part of the world.

If the conflict had been a purely local one, Israel might have agreed to an exchange of prisoners, as both Hizballah and Hamas demanded, and as has taken place a number of times in the past. Some 10,000 Palestinian prisoners still languish in Israeli jails. To secure their release is a major Palestinian objective.

But the war has a wider dimension. The United States has given Israel a free rein because it is confronted with the probability of two highly disagreeable developments: a nuclear-armed Iran and a humiliating defeat in Iraq. It urgently needs to regain the initiative in the wider Middle East and has persuaded itself - or been persuaded by Israel's friends inside and outside the Administration -- that Israel can help it do so. The pro-Israeli neocons in the U.S have been trumpeting that a victory for Israel in Lebanon will be a victory for the United States, and a defeat for Israel will be a defeat for the United States.

This is the essential background to Israel's war, which had clearly been long planned in concert with the United States, and with the encouragement of some Christian Lebanese extremists, not unhappy to see Israel 'do the dirty work' for them in 'breaking' Hizballah.
The situation is complicated by a further layer of conflict. The Arab oil producers in the Gulf dread an upset in the regional power balance. They want to continue enjoying their great wealth under the umbrella of American protection. These Gulf regimes fear a dominant Iran and an assertive Shi'ism. This may explain their astonishing passivity in the face of Israel's aggression. But by failing forcefully to condemn Israel's brutality or spring to the defence of beleaguered Lebanon and Gaza, they expose themselves to the anger of the Arab public.
The explosive impact on Arab opinion of the war in Lebanon and the martyrdom of the Palestinians should not be under-estimated, particularly in view of the graphic media coverage of Israeli atrocities, provided by Al-Jazeera and Hizballah's satellite channel, Al-Manar,
Israel's indifference to Arab life risks convincing many young Arabs that long-term coexistence with Israel is not possible. Arab intellectuals are increasingly expressing the view that Israel is a colonial state, which must eventually disappear, as Europe's colonial empires did in their time.
At their summit meeting in Beirut in March 2002, all the Arab states declared their readiness to establish normal peaceful relations with Israel within its 1967 borders. But Israel, intent on expanding its borders, rejected the offer. It must surely be time for Israel to think again. The offer may still be on the table.

Only by withdrawing from Palestinian territories, respecting Lebanon's sovereignty and returning the Golan to Syria will Israel live in peace. End
Nalod
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7/26/2006  2:37 PM
So I guess that means Israel, which is currently bombing the Middle East's only promising civil society back into the Stone Age, is really poor Jodi Foster, spread out helpless on the pinball machine. Hezbollah and Hamas are, presumably, raping her. So that means the civilians killed in the immediate bombing, or those likely to die in the rubble-strewn aftermath, are on par with the guys yelling, "One two three four -- pump that ***** till it's sore"? Is Lebanon one of the rapists? Is it one of the spectators? Is it the guy coming in to buy a six-pack who gets knocked down by Jodi Foster as she flees the bar? I need help parsing all the nuances of the Dershowitz dream logic.

Very credible journalism!

Killa, see not just the trees but the forest.

O.T. War in the middle East...

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