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Choosing JYD to waive is dumb! (IT'S OFFICIAL)
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jaydh
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8/15/2005  10:19 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

btw, is it now called the jyd rule?


HAHA!!! exactly, sick of it being called the "Allan Houston Rule" and he wasnt even waived. How about the Brian Grant rule.
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Bonn1997
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8/15/2005  10:19 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

btw, is it now called the jyd rule?
LOL
Rich
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8/15/2005  10:25 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

what did he say?


He said that Dolan is either "stupid" or "incompetent," unless he has an under the table deal with Houston to retire in a year to gain cap relief to pursue Lebron. If that's the case, he will publicly apologize. He said that he has been told by his bosses at ESPN and FOX not to criticize Dolan, but he is doing it anyway.
gunsnewing
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8/15/2005  11:14 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by matt:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by GoNyGoNyGo:

JYD is a PF right? This means that he could potentially take away time from Frye and Lee. NY has a glut at PF, so they waived the guy that helps them the least. Rose does exactly what JYD does but is a winner. Even with this cut NY still has too many PF's. I expect a deal in addition to this cut. Cuttin Houston was too much of a risk that he would come back and win a ring with another team. For Dolan that matters even though the Knicks are not in that realm yet.

HOuston if healthy can be a great weapon for this team. Ny could really spread the Defenses out with Q and H20 and let Frye, James and Sweetney work down low one on one.

Thanks, JYD, job well done. Knick fans always will always appreciate your hustle.



No. JYD plays 0-5mins per game. The guy who's going to take away sweetney, frye & lee's minutes is Malik Rose. At least Taylor is our most consistent scorer inside. Waiving JYD and not Rose will hurt the developement of the younger players but this is the Knicks why would anyone expect anything more!


Exactly, JYD never usually played more than 10 minutes anyway, and when he did it was a spark plug. Who on the team now is that player?
At SF, the sparks will probably be Ariza and Lee. Nate will be a nice spark at PG. That's already three good sparks off the bench. Most teams don't have that.


Again, Rose will get a HUGE chunk of Lee, Sweetney & Frye's numbers whereas JYD would only get 0-5 of their minutes. Waiving JYD and not Rose(who happens to have a longer/bigger contract) will come back to hunt Knick fans
gunsnewing
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8/15/2005  11:15 PM
Posted by rojasmas:

I liked JYD like everyone but don't see how he was going to get minutes behind Rose and if they wanted Lee to see time. Taylor brings something different to the equation with a low post game.


thats the whole point. JYD was not going to take away minutes from Lee, Sweetney & Frye.... Malik Rose will
rojasmas
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8/15/2005  11:30 PM
With TT, Q and Ariza needing minutes at SF, JYD was going to have to play PF if he wanted any minutes. Malik, and Lee are going to play PF the way I see it, with Frye going back and forth from PF and C.
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/15/2005  11:34 PM
I read that JYD had some other injuries that prevented him from contributing much more than he was, during the limited time he was already getting. If this was the case, mayeb they'd figure to waive JYD and still ease the backcourt glut when Allan FINALLY retires.

(Hoping against hope, but hoping anyway!)
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Nalod
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8/15/2005  11:52 PM
No way I read 13 pages of emotional menstration. Sounds like some good bickering!

I was riding back from my trip to the beach tonite and heard on the radio.

I scanned a few pages of reply and see the boys are up to the old tricks!

The world will want a quote form Nalod before heading off to bed, so I will comply:

I thought about this move and fist swerved out of my lane. I did not want to engage my lovely wife in this matter as she would soon enough learn about manifold dynammics. And I was losing ponts as Opie and anthony (XM reply) was really quite stupid today, and really was not wanting to lose all cred with her!)

Really, in pure basketball terms, waiving JYD made the mose sense. If he does retire, and I think he does if nobody picks him up, he can still contribute his towel waiving in some capacity with the club. Good asst. coach material! I did his rah-rah, but its not a deal breaker.

I dig Dolan standing by his man. Sure its stupid, but you gotta admire his devotion to him, and standing by his word regardless of injury, coaching, or management changes. Isiah should be so lucky to get this kinda support the rest of his Knick career! In this day and age of Boozer type back stabbing, Dolan stands by his affections for Allan regardless of the economics! Im kinda touched by it all!

Before we get all silly on Nalod, I think the Team put it to Allan that since the team really stood by him, and if he can play, he plays here. We have put in time and money in this guy, and like dice, it can happen. Not the heat, not the nets, the Knicks! If not, he retire a knick and save us money. A lot of money. IN that scenario, we open two spots! Evidently, if your rich enough, you can reabuild by dumping salary in many new ways! It seems we need roster spots more than we need to worry about taxes!

Sure waiving allan, and certainly Anderson makes more economic sense. Waiving off shandons salary does nothing to open a roster spot.

In the end, it was a pure roster, basketball decision and I can go along with it. It does not set up back in any way. JYD despite the love was not getting any minutes this year for many reasons.

I take a big sip of the bug juice and say I buy into the decision.

tkf
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8/16/2005  12:19 AM
Great post nalod, I agree...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
islesfan
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8/16/2005  12:27 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by matt:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by GoNyGoNyGo:

JYD is a PF right? This means that he could potentially take away time from Frye and Lee. NY has a glut at PF, so they waived the guy that helps them the least. Rose does exactly what JYD does but is a winner. Even with this cut NY still has too many PF's. I expect a deal in addition to this cut. Cuttin Houston was too much of a risk that he would come back and win a ring with another team. For Dolan that matters even though the Knicks are not in that realm yet.

HOuston if healthy can be a great weapon for this team. Ny could really spread the Defenses out with Q and H20 and let Frye, James and Sweetney work down low one on one.

Thanks, JYD, job well done. Knick fans always will always appreciate your hustle.



No. JYD plays 0-5mins per game. The guy who's going to take away sweetney, frye & lee's minutes is Malik Rose. At least Taylor is our most consistent scorer inside. Waiving JYD and not Rose will hurt the developement of the younger players but this is the Knicks why would anyone expect anything more!


Exactly, JYD never usually played more than 10 minutes anyway, and when he did it was a spark plug. Who on the team now is that player?
At SF, the sparks will probably be Ariza and Lee. Nate will be a nice spark at PG. That's already three good sparks off the bench. Most teams don't have that.


Seeing how Nate and Lee have yet to play a single minute in the NBA, how can you assume that they'll both be sparks off the bench? That's a HUGE assumption to make. It's wishful thinking to say that most lottery picks would have some kind of impact in their rookie seasons much less the 21st and 30th pick in the draft. I don't mean to single you out Bonn but it's amazing how many people on this board take the 3 draft picks as sure fire contributors based on a few games in summer league. Especially with a coach that has a history of not playing rookies.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
PresIke
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8/16/2005  12:29 AM
I was against waiving JYD as well, and although I haven't read all of the negative responses here, and even some explanations supporting the move I think we should try to understand that there were a multitude of reasons why JYD -- despite his offerings as a defensively sound player and one who plays with intensity -- was waived and not Shandon, Malik, Taylor or Penny (which would make even less sense than the other choices combined).

It had to be a combination of factors because there is really no other explanation. Try this equation on for size:

(Roster space + fiscal gain + each player's contract + ability for a player to contribute on the court + player's future tradablity in the NBA market + number of players on current roster who play a particular position)

If roster space had no bearing and it was purely a fiscal decision, then one would HAVE to waive Shandon. No matter how much Isiah may dislike him as a player when he was on the Knicks an NBA GM must make a BUSINESS decision not one based on PERSONAL feelings (although the lines can certainly be blurred at times). Why would Anderson be cut and not anyone else? Simply because he was costing the Knicks money for the next two years and not on the actual roster. Allan and others may be making more money, but there is the chance (however slim) that they MIGHT be able to contribute to the team or posses some other value.

Allan was taken out of consideration, most likely, because of the chance that he could come back and contribute, (we also need a solid 3 point shooter badly) and the following year his contract will be VERY VALUABLE to any team interested in getting BIG TIME cap room the next year via a trade. I suspect a bit of disdain for calling the one time "waive a player rule" the "Allan Houston Rule" before the Knicks even did anything may have contributed to this as well, but I doubt much.

Penny was likely not cut for similar reasons. He's a big guard, who can play either position in a place where we are lacking leadership. He may be hold and declining, but we still have very few "true" veteran guards. Of course, the even more important factor has to be that HE HAS A HUGE ENDING CONTRACT THIS YEAR. We all know how valuable that is to teams who are looking for cap space. I'm really not understanding why people thought Hardaway would even be taken into consideration for waiving -- other than a personal dislike of the guy as a player or whatever -- when looking at the value of his ending contract.

Malik & Taylor were JUST TRADED FOR and have really not been given a full season on the team to show their worth. Malik has also been on multiple championship teams, and while may be overpaid, is a strong defender with playoff experience, something our team LACKS. Taylor is another "projet" with talent, who Isiah must hope can help off the bench or possibly start if Sweetney doesn't step up. Mo has offensive power down low, which we are lacking other than the un-tested Sweetney, and is younger than both JYD & Rose.

JYD has some playoff experience, but with the glut of players we still have at PF (I know he can play SF, but he's really overmatched with the current slate of SF's in the league) I can see why he was considered expendable. He's older than both Rose and Taylor making him harder to move and likely declining in ability. Was he going to see ANY playing time on this roster? I doubt it.

I loved JYD on the Knicks too, but this may have not been the dumb move some of us are making it out to be.

[Edited by - PresIke on 08-16-2005 12:32 AM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 08-16-2005 12:34 AM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Rich
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8/16/2005  12:31 AM
Dolan is a fool. He is paying Isiah to make basketball decisions. For him to impose his idiocy on the decision making process is inexcusable.

[Edited by - Rich on 08-16-2005 12:31 AM]
PresIke
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8/16/2005  12:33 AM
Posted by Nalod:

In the end, it was a pure roster, basketball decision and I can go along with it. It does not set up back in any way. JYD despite the love was not getting any minutes this year for many reasons.

My sentiments exactly.

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Knight
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8/16/2005  12:35 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by NYK3:

wait, they just played a sound clip of Isiah on SAS...it sounded like JYD is retiring, Isiah said they talked to Jerome about a position inside the organization, maybe scouting or something like that


that makes it even more of a moronic move then...if JYD was planning on retiring, you let him retire, waive Shandon's contract, & save even more money...that's just more nonsense

JYD is not retiring LOL

http://nytimes.com/2005/08/16/sports/basketball/16knicks.html
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
TMS
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8/16/2005  12:54 AM
Posted by joec32033:

I know I am late for this whole JYD thing but I 100% agree with rvh. Where there better options to get rid of? Yes. is this the end all be all of the franchise like alot of guys are making it out to be? Not in the least.


who ever said it was the end all & be all of the franchise? are we not allowed to criticize a move & call out Isiah for stupidity when he makes nonsensical moves like this on this forum? no one has a problem when Isiah's praised as a God for making good decisions...it works both ways...consider each argument for what it's worth & let's avoid the overgeneralizations...no one thinks JYD's absence will make or break the franchise...the argument is that waiving JYD was nonsensical when you could have saved more money by going any 1 of a few alternate routes...obviously Isiah chose to waive JYD to save his own face over the Mo T trade, & because his options were limited by Dolan's decision to allow Allan to go out on his own terms.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Knight
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8/16/2005  12:58 AM
Why would he need to save face over the Mo T trade? Mo played very well last year considering how rusty he was from sitting on Houston's bench and I expect he'll be very good this year. If you only care about saving money then the deal was nonsensical but if you want to make the team better and more balanced then you can justify this move by pointing out that JYD was our worst PF and not needed.

[Edited by - Knight on 08-16-2005 12:59 AM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
PresIke
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8/16/2005  1:05 AM
who ever said it was the end all & be all of the franchise? are we not allowed to criticize a move & call out Isiah for stupidity when he makes nonsensical moves like this on this forum?

Maybe some don't think it was the "be all end all of the franchise" but the reaction against waiving JYD has come across in a fairly harsh manner from some on this forum. Maybe that's the way it just seems when reading material written on an Internet forum of fans.

I'm also not sure that this quote:

I know I am late for this whole JYD thing but I 100% agree with rvh. Where there better options to get rid of? Yes. is this the end all be all of the franchise like alot of guys are making it out to be? Not in the least.

is suggesting that no one can criticize any of Isiah's moves. However, let us not forget that any view on any moves he makes are purely subjective. What seems like fact to one may be false to another. There are plenty of reasonable arguments with multiple factors to support Isiah's decision. Do we all agree with them? Of course not, but none of us have any more insight into whether one decision is more right than the other.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
TMS
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8/16/2005  1:11 AM
this has been argued in countless previous posts on this thread so i'm not going to get into it again...i already stated my position on who i'd rather have seen waived based on their value to the team...i just want to say let's not make this out to be that anyone here thinks losing JYD is going to doom this franchise for years to come...i don't believe anyone who opposes this move has implied that in the least.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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8/16/2005  1:13 AM
Posted by PresIke:
who ever said it was the end all & be all of the franchise? are we not allowed to criticize a move & call out Isiah for stupidity when he makes nonsensical moves like this on this forum?

Maybe some don't think it was the "be all end all of the franchise" but the reaction against waiving JYD has come across in a fairly harsh manner from some on this forum. Maybe that's the way it just seems when reading material written on an Internet forum of fans.

I'm also not sure that this quote:

I know I am late for this whole JYD thing but I 100% agree with rvh. Where there better options to get rid of? Yes. is this the end all be all of the franchise like alot of guys are making it out to be? Not in the least.

is suggesting that no one can criticize any of Isiah's moves. However, let us not forget that any view on any moves he makes are purely subjective. What seems like fact to one may be false to another. There are plenty of reasonable arguments with multiple factors to support Isiah's decision. Do we all agree with them? Of course not, but none of us have any more insight into whether one decision is more right than the other.


completely fair...i don't begrudge anyone on this forum to have an opinion on any topic...whether they agree w/me or not is irrelevant.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
gunsnewing
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8/16/2005  1:22 AM
Posted by Knight:

Why would he need to save face over the Mo T trade? Mo played very well last year considering how rusty he was from sitting on Houston's bench and I expect he'll be very good this year. If you only care about saving money then the deal was nonsensical but if you want to make the team better and more balanced then you can justify this move by pointing out that JYD was our worst PF and not needed.

[Edited by - Knight on 08-16-2005 12:59 AM]


what if your biggest concern is the fact that Rose will stun the developement of the younger bigs whereas jyd would be effecient and happy in his 5mins. And Rose has a larger contract
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