holfresh wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:I'm getting to the point where I may just stay home on Election Day.

I'm thoroughly disgusted at this peek into how the sausage was made.

Is voting Working Families really doing anything if every WFP candidate is a Democrat? Is voting Green worth the wait in line when they aren't going to get past 2%?

Right now, showing up and handing in a blank ballot seems the most honest thing... and that will just get tossed in the trash as a spoiled ballot.

Thoroughly disgusted. Only thing I may do is hold my nose and vote the entire WFP line as a final shoutout to Uncle Bernie.

Thats a good post DR. Now youre getting me. We may differ opinion--but I respect you want what is best for EVERYONE in your mind--as do I. I STRONGLY do not think Hillary deserves the Presidency--now I can understand why people DO NOT like Trump--BUT I believe strongly he is the better choice for the PEOPLE. Thats just MY opinion.

My opinion is Trump is a **** show blowhard charlatan. Hell, a year ago you said you didn't trust him with the nuclear codes and wouldn't vote for him. So you can see my side as well, just remember your own words.

But yes, I told myself that I wouldn't vote for any politician who voted for the Iraq War resolution. So that would include Clinton and Schumer. And all this DNC shadiness and the bank speeches... let alone all this recent nonsense. Classic Clinton Coverup Worse Than the Crime Third Way realpolitik bull****. Very disheartening.

If I vote, it's WFP for Uncle Bernie. Maybe the Green candidate for Senate. Funny I looked at the electors for Clinton — since that's who we really vote for. Bill Clinton and Cuomo at the top of the Elector list. Ugh.

It's nice to have ideals and live by principles but there are more important things riding on this election...The Supreme Court is on the ballot, campaign finance reform is on the ballot, gun reform is on the ballot, a woman's right to choose is on the ballot, War with Iran is on the ballot, Holding Cuba to different standards than we hold China is on the ballot, Crime Bill reform where minorities get stiffer sentences than their white counterparts are on the ballot, black lives matters is on the ballot, Guiliani's principles of policing is on the ballot..I can go on...

More important things than living by principles... heh I guess so! The way of the world.

But I'm in a safe state, where my vote either way or me staying home isn't going to amount to anything. It is statistically useless.

Don't fall for that partisan ruse, there's nothing more important than living by your principles. I am not in a safe state, I live in OHIO and I am not voting for these losers. Clinton has had more than a year to come clean on all these issues and she didn't. Lack of transparency is usually indicative of something to hide. I honestly don't care what it is, I don't think she is an honest and upstanding citizen. And Trump is a scumbag.

What do your principles prefer about the makeup of the Supreme Court for the next 20-50 years?

My principles clearly witnessed what republican obstructionism does for SC nominees and they are not interested in right wing slime being nominated under centrist guise.

Fair enough. But you'd rather Trump got to nominate? In a swing state, your vote might actually matter (not like the rest of us).

No I wouldn't rather have Trump win, but in a democracy my job is to elect the best candidate not defeat the worst. In this election there is no best candidate. If people who keep professing disenchantment with establishment politics put their vote where their mouth is, Jill Stein would be president. READ how many posts on this thread starts with the premise that both candidates have flaws and then explains why for blah blah reason one is better than the other. This exactly why we don't have a democracy any more, no matter who wins we are screwed.

Or if Jill Stein had been dissected by the media and Republicans for the past 25 years, maybe we'd see her as awful too.

This is not a good argument. I have been against Bill and Hillary since the former was in his first term. I think they have been moving the democratic party to the right.

Well, I think my argument applies to most of the people who criticize the Clintons even if it doesn't apply to you. But don't forget Bill gave us Ginsburg and Breyer. If Hillary gives us similar SC justices, you won't have to worry about the country moving to the right!

Fair enough- SC justices are not the only things that can move the country to the right. The trickle down BS started by Reagan and then fostered and intensified by Bill has destroyed the middle class and created the foundation for this new economy where wealth is manufactured from leverage and not through production. Now people will argue that his lame ass tax increases "reversed" trickle down but the data has long debunked that BS claim

Well as long a there are years where the stock market have a healthy rise, then you will see disparities grow..You shouldn't be upset that folks are making money, you should be upset that some groups are left out and we need to find ways to include them..

What the data shows is that Clinton policies led to increased and accelerated polarization of wealth. The rate of polarization went up under him. Reagan followed by Clinton completely ensured the American middle class was getting decimated. Stock market growth does not equate to a good economy, you can have years of GDP growth where larger and larger chunks of the population are sliding into poverty.

meloshouldgo wrote:

holfresh wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:I'm getting to the point where I may just stay home on Election Day.

I'm thoroughly disgusted at this peek into how the sausage was made.

Is voting Working Families really doing anything if every WFP candidate is a Democrat? Is voting Green worth the wait in line when they aren't going to get past 2%?

Right now, showing up and handing in a blank ballot seems the most honest thing... and that will just get tossed in the trash as a spoiled ballot.

Thoroughly disgusted. Only thing I may do is hold my nose and vote the entire WFP line as a final shoutout to Uncle Bernie.

Thats a good post DR. Now youre getting me. We may differ opinion--but I respect you want what is best for EVERYONE in your mind--as do I. I STRONGLY do not think Hillary deserves the Presidency--now I can understand why people DO NOT like Trump--BUT I believe strongly he is the better choice for the PEOPLE. Thats just MY opinion.

My opinion is Trump is a **** show blowhard charlatan. Hell, a year ago you said you didn't trust him with the nuclear codes and wouldn't vote for him. So you can see my side as well, just remember your own words.

But yes, I told myself that I wouldn't vote for any politician who voted for the Iraq War resolution. So that would include Clinton and Schumer. And all this DNC shadiness and the bank speeches... let alone all this recent nonsense. Classic Clinton Coverup Worse Than the Crime Third Way realpolitik bull****. Very disheartening.

If I vote, it's WFP for Uncle Bernie. Maybe the Green candidate for Senate. Funny I looked at the electors for Clinton — since that's who we really vote for. Bill Clinton and Cuomo at the top of the Elector list. Ugh.

It's nice to have ideals and live by principles but there are more important things riding on this election...The Supreme Court is on the ballot, campaign finance reform is on the ballot, gun reform is on the ballot, a woman's right to choose is on the ballot, War with Iran is on the ballot, Holding Cuba to different standards than we hold China is on the ballot, Crime Bill reform where minorities get stiffer sentences than their white counterparts are on the ballot, black lives matters is on the ballot, Guiliani's principles of policing is on the ballot..I can go on...

More important things than living by principles... heh I guess so! The way of the world.

But I'm in a safe state, where my vote either way or me staying home isn't going to amount to anything. It is statistically useless.

Don't fall for that partisan ruse, there's nothing more important than living by your principles. I am not in a safe state, I live in OHIO and I am not voting for these losers. Clinton has had more than a year to come clean on all these issues and she didn't. Lack of transparency is usually indicative of something to hide. I honestly don't care what it is, I don't think she is an honest and upstanding citizen. And Trump is a scumbag.

What do your principles prefer about the makeup of the Supreme Court for the next 20-50 years?

My principles clearly witnessed what republican obstructionism does for SC nominees and they are not interested in right wing slime being nominated under centrist guise.

Fair enough. But you'd rather Trump got to nominate? In a swing state, your vote might actually matter (not like the rest of us).

No I wouldn't rather have Trump win, but in a democracy my job is to elect the best candidate not defeat the worst. In this election there is no best candidate. If people who keep professing disenchantment with establishment politics put their vote where their mouth is, Jill Stein would be president. READ how many posts on this thread starts with the premise that both candidates have flaws and then explains why for blah blah reason one is better than the other. This exactly why we don't have a democracy any more, no matter who wins we are screwed.

Or if Jill Stein had been dissected by the media and Republicans for the past 25 years, maybe we'd see her as awful too.

This is not a good argument. I have been against Bill and Hillary since the former was in his first term. I think they have been moving the democratic party to the right.

Well, I think my argument applies to most of the people who criticize the Clintons even if it doesn't apply to you. But don't forget Bill gave us Ginsburg and Breyer. If Hillary gives us similar SC justices, you won't have to worry about the country moving to the right!

Fair enough- SC justices are not the only things that can move the country to the right. The trickle down BS started by Reagan and then fostered and intensified by Bill has destroyed the middle class and created the foundation for this new economy where wealth is manufactured from leverage and not through production. Now people will argue that his lame ass tax increases "reversed" trickle down but the data has long debunked that BS claim

Well as long a there are years where the stock market have a healthy rise, then you will see disparities grow..You shouldn't be upset that folks are making money, you should be upset that some groups are left out and we need to find ways to include them..

What the data shows is that Clinton policies led to increased and accelerated polarization of wealth. The rate of polarization went up under him. Reagan followed by Clinton completely ensured the American middle class was getting decimated. Stock market growth does not equate to a good economy, you can have years of GDP growth where larger and larger chunks of the population are sliding into poverty.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

holfresh wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:I'm getting to the point where I may just stay home on Election Day.

I'm thoroughly disgusted at this peek into how the sausage was made.

Is voting Working Families really doing anything if every WFP candidate is a Democrat? Is voting Green worth the wait in line when they aren't going to get past 2%?

Right now, showing up and handing in a blank ballot seems the most honest thing... and that will just get tossed in the trash as a spoiled ballot.

Thoroughly disgusted. Only thing I may do is hold my nose and vote the entire WFP line as a final shoutout to Uncle Bernie.

Thats a good post DR. Now youre getting me. We may differ opinion--but I respect you want what is best for EVERYONE in your mind--as do I. I STRONGLY do not think Hillary deserves the Presidency--now I can understand why people DO NOT like Trump--BUT I believe strongly he is the better choice for the PEOPLE. Thats just MY opinion.

My opinion is Trump is a **** show blowhard charlatan. Hell, a year ago you said you didn't trust him with the nuclear codes and wouldn't vote for him. So you can see my side as well, just remember your own words.

But yes, I told myself that I wouldn't vote for any politician who voted for the Iraq War resolution. So that would include Clinton and Schumer. And all this DNC shadiness and the bank speeches... let alone all this recent nonsense. Classic Clinton Coverup Worse Than the Crime Third Way realpolitik bull****. Very disheartening.

If I vote, it's WFP for Uncle Bernie. Maybe the Green candidate for Senate. Funny I looked at the electors for Clinton — since that's who we really vote for. Bill Clinton and Cuomo at the top of the Elector list. Ugh.

It's nice to have ideals and live by principles but there are more important things riding on this election...The Supreme Court is on the ballot, campaign finance reform is on the ballot, gun reform is on the ballot, a woman's right to choose is on the ballot, War with Iran is on the ballot, Holding Cuba to different standards than we hold China is on the ballot, Crime Bill reform where minorities get stiffer sentences than their white counterparts are on the ballot, black lives matters is on the ballot, Guiliani's principles of policing is on the ballot..I can go on...

More important things than living by principles... heh I guess so! The way of the world.

But I'm in a safe state, where my vote either way or me staying home isn't going to amount to anything. It is statistically useless.

Don't fall for that partisan ruse, there's nothing more important than living by your principles. I am not in a safe state, I live in OHIO and I am not voting for these losers. Clinton has had more than a year to come clean on all these issues and she didn't. Lack of transparency is usually indicative of something to hide. I honestly don't care what it is, I don't think she is an honest and upstanding citizen. And Trump is a scumbag.

What do your principles prefer about the makeup of the Supreme Court for the next 20-50 years?

My principles clearly witnessed what republican obstructionism does for SC nominees and they are not interested in right wing slime being nominated under centrist guise.

Fair enough. But you'd rather Trump got to nominate? In a swing state, your vote might actually matter (not like the rest of us).

No I wouldn't rather have Trump win, but in a democracy my job is to elect the best candidate not defeat the worst. In this election there is no best candidate. If people who keep professing disenchantment with establishment politics put their vote where their mouth is, Jill Stein would be president. READ how many posts on this thread starts with the premise that both candidates have flaws and then explains why for blah blah reason one is better than the other. This exactly why we don't have a democracy any more, no matter who wins we are screwed.

Or if Jill Stein had been dissected by the media and Republicans for the past 25 years, maybe we'd see her as awful too.

This is not a good argument. I have been against Bill and Hillary since the former was in his first term. I think they have been moving the democratic party to the right.

Well, I think my argument applies to most of the people who criticize the Clintons even if it doesn't apply to you. But don't forget Bill gave us Ginsburg and Breyer. If Hillary gives us similar SC justices, you won't have to worry about the country moving to the right!

Fair enough- SC justices are not the only things that can move the country to the right. The trickle down BS started by Reagan and then fostered and intensified by Bill has destroyed the middle class and created the foundation for this new economy where wealth is manufactured from leverage and not through production. Now people will argue that his lame ass tax increases "reversed" trickle down but the data has long debunked that BS claim

Well as long a there are years where the stock market have a healthy rise, then you will see disparities grow..You shouldn't be upset that folks are making money, you should be upset that some groups are left out and we need to find ways to include them..

What the data shows is that Clinton policies led to increased and accelerated polarization of wealth. The rate of polarization went up under him. Reagan followed by Clinton completely ensured the American middle class was getting decimated. Stock market growth does not equate to a good economy, you can have years of GDP growth where larger and larger chunks of the population are sliding into poverty.

You've put a graph with a trend and attributed it entirely to one person. Let's not forget Republicans controlled Congress during those Bill Clinton years. Also, there were many changes that had nothing to do with Bill Clinton (the growth of the internet, technological replacements for less skilled workers). Even NAFTA was supported by both parties. It may just be a mistake or miscalculation that both parties made, rather than a mistake revealing something unique about the Clintons.

Never said it was 100% Clinton's fault, but it happened under his watch. He signed those laws into existence when he could have vetoed them. Technically he pulled people out of poverty compared to Reagan years. But does someone making a 100 dollars more than the poverty line annually suddenly identify as middle class? Show me some data on what Clinton did to improve the middle class.

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

holfresh wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:I'm getting to the point where I may just stay home on Election Day.

I'm thoroughly disgusted at this peek into how the sausage was made.

Is voting Working Families really doing anything if every WFP candidate is a Democrat? Is voting Green worth the wait in line when they aren't going to get past 2%?

Right now, showing up and handing in a blank ballot seems the most honest thing... and that will just get tossed in the trash as a spoiled ballot.

Thoroughly disgusted. Only thing I may do is hold my nose and vote the entire WFP line as a final shoutout to Uncle Bernie.

Thats a good post DR. Now youre getting me. We may differ opinion--but I respect you want what is best for EVERYONE in your mind--as do I. I STRONGLY do not think Hillary deserves the Presidency--now I can understand why people DO NOT like Trump--BUT I believe strongly he is the better choice for the PEOPLE. Thats just MY opinion.

My opinion is Trump is a **** show blowhard charlatan. Hell, a year ago you said you didn't trust him with the nuclear codes and wouldn't vote for him. So you can see my side as well, just remember your own words.

But yes, I told myself that I wouldn't vote for any politician who voted for the Iraq War resolution. So that would include Clinton and Schumer. And all this DNC shadiness and the bank speeches... let alone all this recent nonsense. Classic Clinton Coverup Worse Than the Crime Third Way realpolitik bull****. Very disheartening.

If I vote, it's WFP for Uncle Bernie. Maybe the Green candidate for Senate. Funny I looked at the electors for Clinton — since that's who we really vote for. Bill Clinton and Cuomo at the top of the Elector list. Ugh.

It's nice to have ideals and live by principles but there are more important things riding on this election...The Supreme Court is on the ballot, campaign finance reform is on the ballot, gun reform is on the ballot, a woman's right to choose is on the ballot, War with Iran is on the ballot, Holding Cuba to different standards than we hold China is on the ballot, Crime Bill reform where minorities get stiffer sentences than their white counterparts are on the ballot, black lives matters is on the ballot, Guiliani's principles of policing is on the ballot..I can go on...

More important things than living by principles... heh I guess so! The way of the world.

But I'm in a safe state, where my vote either way or me staying home isn't going to amount to anything. It is statistically useless.

Don't fall for that partisan ruse, there's nothing more important than living by your principles. I am not in a safe state, I live in OHIO and I am not voting for these losers. Clinton has had more than a year to come clean on all these issues and she didn't. Lack of transparency is usually indicative of something to hide. I honestly don't care what it is, I don't think she is an honest and upstanding citizen. And Trump is a scumbag.

What do your principles prefer about the makeup of the Supreme Court for the next 20-50 years?

My principles clearly witnessed what republican obstructionism does for SC nominees and they are not interested in right wing slime being nominated under centrist guise.

Fair enough. But you'd rather Trump got to nominate? In a swing state, your vote might actually matter (not like the rest of us).

No I wouldn't rather have Trump win, but in a democracy my job is to elect the best candidate not defeat the worst. In this election there is no best candidate. If people who keep professing disenchantment with establishment politics put their vote where their mouth is, Jill Stein would be president. READ how many posts on this thread starts with the premise that both candidates have flaws and then explains why for blah blah reason one is better than the other. This exactly why we don't have a democracy any more, no matter who wins we are screwed.

Or if Jill Stein had been dissected by the media and Republicans for the past 25 years, maybe we'd see her as awful too.

This is not a good argument. I have been against Bill and Hillary since the former was in his first term. I think they have been moving the democratic party to the right.

Well, I think my argument applies to most of the people who criticize the Clintons even if it doesn't apply to you. But don't forget Bill gave us Ginsburg and Breyer. If Hillary gives us similar SC justices, you won't have to worry about the country moving to the right!

Fair enough- SC justices are not the only things that can move the country to the right. The trickle down BS started by Reagan and then fostered and intensified by Bill has destroyed the middle class and created the foundation for this new economy where wealth is manufactured from leverage and not through production. Now people will argue that his lame ass tax increases "reversed" trickle down but the data has long debunked that BS claim

Well as long a there are years where the stock market have a healthy rise, then you will see disparities grow..You shouldn't be upset that folks are making money, you should be upset that some groups are left out and we need to find ways to include them..

What the data shows is that Clinton policies led to increased and accelerated polarization of wealth. The rate of polarization went up under him. Reagan followed by Clinton completely ensured the American middle class was getting decimated. Stock market growth does not equate to a good economy, you can have years of GDP growth where larger and larger chunks of the population are sliding into poverty.

You've put a graph with a trend and attributed it entirely to one person. Let's not forget Republicans controlled Congress during those Bill Clinton years. Also, there were many changes that had nothing to do with Bill Clinton (the growth of the internet, technological replacements for less skilled workers). Even NAFTA was supported by both parties. It may just be a mistake or miscalculation that both parties made, rather than a mistake revealing something unique about the Clintons.

Never said it was 100% Clinton's fault, but it happened under his watch. He signed those laws into existence when he could have vetoed them. Technically he pulled people out of poverty compared to Reagan years. But does someone making a 100 dollars more than the poverty line annually suddenly identify as middle class? Show me some data on what Clinton did to improve the middle class.

Well, politifact says 22 times as many people climbed out of poverty under Clinton than Reagan. If you have direct evidence that they only went to $100 above the poverty line, I'd look at it. Otherwise, the default assumption in the absence of more information would have to be that when people climb out of poverty, it is a good thing.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2014/nov/07/bill-clinton/did-100-times-more-people-ascend-middle-class-unde/

Never said it wasn't a good thing. My argument is around further polarization of wealth and reinforcement of trickle down. The poverty line is a single number, if you make just one dollar a year more than that you are no longer poor. It doesn't mean a whole lot. Politifact also says this same exact thing. So if you really want to show improvement you will have to show wage gains data not some arbitrary line in the sand mechanism to carve out the population.

meloshouldgo wrote:

holfresh wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:I'm getting to the point where I may just stay home on Election Day.

I'm thoroughly disgusted at this peek into how the sausage was made.

Is voting Working Families really doing anything if every WFP candidate is a Democrat? Is voting Green worth the wait in line when they aren't going to get past 2%?

Right now, showing up and handing in a blank ballot seems the most honest thing... and that will just get tossed in the trash as a spoiled ballot.

Thoroughly disgusted. Only thing I may do is hold my nose and vote the entire WFP line as a final shoutout to Uncle Bernie.

Thats a good post DR. Now youre getting me. We may differ opinion--but I respect you want what is best for EVERYONE in your mind--as do I. I STRONGLY do not think Hillary deserves the Presidency--now I can understand why people DO NOT like Trump--BUT I believe strongly he is the better choice for the PEOPLE. Thats just MY opinion.

My opinion is Trump is a **** show blowhard charlatan. Hell, a year ago you said you didn't trust him with the nuclear codes and wouldn't vote for him. So you can see my side as well, just remember your own words.

But yes, I told myself that I wouldn't vote for any politician who voted for the Iraq War resolution. So that would include Clinton and Schumer. And all this DNC shadiness and the bank speeches... let alone all this recent nonsense. Classic Clinton Coverup Worse Than the Crime Third Way realpolitik bull****. Very disheartening.

If I vote, it's WFP for Uncle Bernie. Maybe the Green candidate for Senate. Funny I looked at the electors for Clinton — since that's who we really vote for. Bill Clinton and Cuomo at the top of the Elector list. Ugh.

It's nice to have ideals and live by principles but there are more important things riding on this election...The Supreme Court is on the ballot, campaign finance reform is on the ballot, gun reform is on the ballot, a woman's right to choose is on the ballot, War with Iran is on the ballot, Holding Cuba to different standards than we hold China is on the ballot, Crime Bill reform where minorities get stiffer sentences than their white counterparts are on the ballot, black lives matters is on the ballot, Guiliani's principles of policing is on the ballot..I can go on...

More important things than living by principles... heh I guess so! The way of the world.

But I'm in a safe state, where my vote either way or me staying home isn't going to amount to anything. It is statistically useless.

Don't fall for that partisan ruse, there's nothing more important than living by your principles. I am not in a safe state, I live in OHIO and I am not voting for these losers. Clinton has had more than a year to come clean on all these issues and she didn't. Lack of transparency is usually indicative of something to hide. I honestly don't care what it is, I don't think she is an honest and upstanding citizen. And Trump is a scumbag.

What do your principles prefer about the makeup of the Supreme Court for the next 20-50 years?

My principles clearly witnessed what republican obstructionism does for SC nominees and they are not interested in right wing slime being nominated under centrist guise.

Fair enough. But you'd rather Trump got to nominate? In a swing state, your vote might actually matter (not like the rest of us).

No I wouldn't rather have Trump win, but in a democracy my job is to elect the best candidate not defeat the worst. In this election there is no best candidate. If people who keep professing disenchantment with establishment politics put their vote where their mouth is, Jill Stein would be president. READ how many posts on this thread starts with the premise that both candidates have flaws and then explains why for blah blah reason one is better than the other. This exactly why we don't have a democracy any more, no matter who wins we are screwed.

Or if Jill Stein had been dissected by the media and Republicans for the past 25 years, maybe we'd see her as awful too.

This is not a good argument. I have been against Bill and Hillary since the former was in his first term. I think they have been moving the democratic party to the right.

Well, I think my argument applies to most of the people who criticize the Clintons even if it doesn't apply to you. But don't forget Bill gave us Ginsburg and Breyer. If Hillary gives us similar SC justices, you won't have to worry about the country moving to the right!

Fair enough- SC justices are not the only things that can move the country to the right. The trickle down BS started by Reagan and then fostered and intensified by Bill has destroyed the middle class and created the foundation for this new economy where wealth is manufactured from leverage and not through production. Now people will argue that his lame ass tax increases "reversed" trickle down but the data has long debunked that BS claim

Well as long a there are years where the stock market have a healthy rise, then you will see disparities grow..You shouldn't be upset that folks are making money, you should be upset that some groups are left out and we need to find ways to include them..

What the data shows is that Clinton policies led to increased and accelerated polarization of wealth. The rate of polarization went up under him. Reagan followed by Clinton completely ensured the American middle class was getting decimated. Stock market growth does not equate to a good economy, you can have years of GDP growth where larger and larger chunks of the population are sliding into poverty.

BRIGGS wrote:http://www.nasdaq.com/article/michelle-obama-reportedly-clears-out-mentions-of-hillary-clinton-on-twitter-accounts-cm701847

Part of the underlying why of the low information about the political environment in our country is being able to discern information.

BRIGGS, you are pretty much example #1 why our country is in the ****ter these days. Otherwise smart people who are constantly barraged with bad information and who eat it right up without using one ounce of sense or sensibility.

You still believe Trump will act in the best interests of our country when he himself has never demonstrated one iota of that type of trait.

Any retraction? Not sure why you rely on getting your information from Hanity and Fox news, it's a poor start and it goes downhill from there.

holfresh wrote:Mark Cuban's interview yesterday on CNBC was a bit comical but frightening..But this sums up what he had to say..

On hedging his investments: "If Trump wins, I'm already hedged ... I've put on the biggest hedge I've ever put on against all my equities and interest-bearing bonds," he said.

He should. This is an event that is right in front of us.
Most "Black Swan" events don't have a date.

If I were a billionaire, I would do similar.

Nalod 30% in cash heading into this. Took some profits a few weeks ago.
Forget the BS, Trumps economic policies and fantasy salesmanship of them is my reason.
For all the fear of Hillary, Trump has 75 pending lawsuits in front of him including Trump university and Raping a child 4 times.
Its a civil lawsuit. Of course this falls on deaf ears because in the basket of deplorables there are pediphiles, rapists and predators.
"Gee, I grope, rape, and cheat on my taxes, That's why Im for trump, he is like me!!!"
Remember when we just wanted to "Be like Mike"?

There are democrats deplorable as well. I know that.
But they are not so proud of showing it.

martin wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:http://www.nasdaq.com/article/michelle-obama-reportedly-clears-out-mentions-of-hillary-clinton-on-twitter-accounts-cm701847

Part of the underlying why of the low information about the political environment in our country is being able to discern information.

BRIGGS, you are pretty much example #1 why our country is in the ****ter these days. Otherwise smart people who are constantly barraged with bad information and who eat it right up without using one ounce of sense or sensibility.

You still believe Trump will act in the best interests of our country when he himself has never demonstrated one iota of that type of trait.

Any retraction? Not sure why you rely on getting your information from Hanity and Fox news, it's a poor start and it goes downhill from there.

The article is about how ignorant the rumor is. Briggs put his stamp of ignorance on it.
Two weeks ago Michelle was out campaigning for her.

holfresh wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

holfresh wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

markvmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

holfresh wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:I'm getting to the point where I may just stay home on Election Day.

I'm thoroughly disgusted at this peek into how the sausage was made.

Is voting Working Families really doing anything if every WFP candidate is a Democrat? Is voting Green worth the wait in line when they aren't going to get past 2%?

Right now, showing up and handing in a blank ballot seems the most honest thing... and that will just get tossed in the trash as a spoiled ballot.

Thoroughly disgusted. Only thing I may do is hold my nose and vote the entire WFP line as a final shoutout to Uncle Bernie.

Thats a good post DR. Now youre getting me. We may differ opinion--but I respect you want what is best for EVERYONE in your mind--as do I. I STRONGLY do not think Hillary deserves the Presidency--now I can understand why people DO NOT like Trump--BUT I believe strongly he is the better choice for the PEOPLE. Thats just MY opinion.

My opinion is Trump is a **** show blowhard charlatan. Hell, a year ago you said you didn't trust him with the nuclear codes and wouldn't vote for him. So you can see my side as well, just remember your own words.

But yes, I told myself that I wouldn't vote for any politician who voted for the Iraq War resolution. So that would include Clinton and Schumer. And all this DNC shadiness and the bank speeches... let alone all this recent nonsense. Classic Clinton Coverup Worse Than the Crime Third Way realpolitik bull****. Very disheartening.

If I vote, it's WFP for Uncle Bernie. Maybe the Green candidate for Senate. Funny I looked at the electors for Clinton — since that's who we really vote for. Bill Clinton and Cuomo at the top of the Elector list. Ugh.

It's nice to have ideals and live by principles but there are more important things riding on this election...The Supreme Court is on the ballot, campaign finance reform is on the ballot, gun reform is on the ballot, a woman's right to choose is on the ballot, War with Iran is on the ballot, Holding Cuba to different standards than we hold China is on the ballot, Crime Bill reform where minorities get stiffer sentences than their white counterparts are on the ballot, black lives matters is on the ballot, Guiliani's principles of policing is on the ballot..I can go on...

More important things than living by principles... heh I guess so! The way of the world.

But I'm in a safe state, where my vote either way or me staying home isn't going to amount to anything. It is statistically useless.

Don't fall for that partisan ruse, there's nothing more important than living by your principles. I am not in a safe state, I live in OHIO and I am not voting for these losers. Clinton has had more than a year to come clean on all these issues and she didn't. Lack of transparency is usually indicative of something to hide. I honestly don't care what it is, I don't think she is an honest and upstanding citizen. And Trump is a scumbag.

What do your principles prefer about the makeup of the Supreme Court for the next 20-50 years?

My principles clearly witnessed what republican obstructionism does for SC nominees and they are not interested in right wing slime being nominated under centrist guise.

Fair enough. But you'd rather Trump got to nominate? In a swing state, your vote might actually matter (not like the rest of us).

No I wouldn't rather have Trump win, but in a democracy my job is to elect the best candidate not defeat the worst. In this election there is no best candidate. If people who keep professing disenchantment with establishment politics put their vote where their mouth is, Jill Stein would be president. READ how many posts on this thread starts with the premise that both candidates have flaws and then explains why for blah blah reason one is better than the other. This exactly why we don't have a democracy any more, no matter who wins we are screwed.

Or if Jill Stein had been dissected by the media and Republicans for the past 25 years, maybe we'd see her as awful too.

This is not a good argument. I have been against Bill and Hillary since the former was in his first term. I think they have been moving the democratic party to the right.

Well, I think my argument applies to most of the people who criticize the Clintons even if it doesn't apply to you. But don't forget Bill gave us Ginsburg and Breyer. If Hillary gives us similar SC justices, you won't have to worry about the country moving to the right!

Fair enough- SC justices are not the only things that can move the country to the right. The trickle down BS started by Reagan and then fostered and intensified by Bill has destroyed the middle class and created the foundation for this new economy where wealth is manufactured from leverage and not through production. Now people will argue that his lame ass tax increases "reversed" trickle down but the data has long debunked that BS claim

Well as long a there are years where the stock market have a healthy rise, then you will see disparities grow..You shouldn't be upset that folks are making money, you should be upset that some groups are left out and we need to find ways to include them..

What the data shows is that Clinton policies led to increased and accelerated polarization of wealth. The rate of polarization went up under him. Reagan followed by Clinton completely ensured the American middle class was getting decimated. Stock market growth does not equate to a good economy, you can have years of GDP growth where larger and larger chunks of the population are sliding into poverty.

The moniker "polarization of wealth" is wrong and leads to incorrect assumptions and conclusions. Your characterization leads people to believe the wealth could be equally had by all and policies made the accumulation of wealth gravitate towards the rich. He did raise taxes on the rich...The entire picture you are trying to paint is inaccurate...When a president enacts policies for growth then the rich will benefit more because they have more invested..It's that simple...But that growth should buoy all ships albeit not equally...What Bill Clinton then tried to do for the people who aren't rich, was loosen lending so that the working class can gain wealth through home ownership..But that plan went awry a decade later as we saw... I think your base premise is misguided..

Holfresh put up some data or links to substantiate your empty talking points.