GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck.

For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.

I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.

1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
33) Bam Adebayo

Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck.

For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.

I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.

I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):

1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns

Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?

You can make a case for him towards the bottom -- if he's on the court.

BTW I put RJ ahead of him.

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck.

For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.

I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.

I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):

1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns

Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?

I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.

Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."

This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck.

For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.

I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.

I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):

1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns

Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?

I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.

Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."

This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.

Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.

So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.

By your metric no, by mine yes.

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck.

For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.

I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.

I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):

1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns

Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?

I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.

Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."

This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.

Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.

So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.

By your metric no, by mine yes.

ramtour420 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck.

For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.

I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.

I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):

1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns

Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?

I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.

Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."

This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.

Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.

So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.

By your metric no, by mine yes.

I'll make it super easy. How about KP being in the top 30 of unrealized potential in the league? Top 5 even? He might even make it in to the Hall of Fame of players who could have been the leagues top players if not for injuries. Right up there with the great Greg Oden and such. Truly top players. But not in NBA, not in the fantasy league. The world definitely needs a new category to have him be a leader of. Too much of a unicorn 🦄 for the reality

What a pissy little comment. I dont know how long it takes you to figure out how good a player is, To project how far they can take that talent, you need to get an extended look. Difficult if they have trouble staying healthy. Doesnt mean that you cant see that they already have definable skills. Maybe you cant IDK.

Greg Oden wasnt nearly as skilled as KP. He was an old school big. Couldnt drain the 3, take guards off the dribble. Defend guards. Porzingis has skills, how much better he will get depends on his health. If my stating that upsets you, thats your problem.

GustavBahler wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck.

For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.

I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.

I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):

1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns

Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?

I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.

Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."

This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.

Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.

So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.

By your metric no, by mine yes.

I'll make it super easy. How about KP being in the top 30 of unrealized potential in the league? Top 5 even? He might even make it in to the Hall of Fame of players who could have been the leagues top players if not for injuries. Right up there with the great Greg Oden and such. Truly top players. But not in NBA, not in the fantasy league. The world definitely needs a new category to have him be a leader of. Too much of a unicorn 🦄 for the reality

What a pissy little comment. I dont know how long it takes you to figure out how good a player is, To project how far they can take that talent, you need to get an extended look. Difficult if they have trouble staying healthy. Doesnt mean that you cant see that they already have definable skills. Maybe you cant IDK.

Greg Oden wasnt nearly as skilled as KP. He was an old school big. Couldnt drain the 3, take guards off the dribble. Defend guards. Porzingis has skills, how much better he will get depends on his health. If my stating that upsets you, thats your problem.

As a 21-year-old in 2016-17, Porzingis became one of three players in NBA history, 22 years or younger, to make 100-plus 3-pointers and block 100-plus shots in a season (Dirk Nowitzki, 2000-01; Karl-Anthony Towns, 2016-17 and 2017-18). He was named an All-Star in 2018 but did not play due to injury.

Porzingis has earned Player of the Week honors twice in his career (Eastern Conference POW, Oct. 30 to Nov. 5, 2017; Western Conference POW, Feb. 24 to March 1, 2020). In 2019-20, “The Unicorn” became the fastest player to 400-plus 3-pointers made and 400-plus blocks in NBA history (233 games). He also became one of five players in league history to record at least 4,000 points, 1,500 rebounds, 400 3-pointers made and 400 blocks before his 25th birthday (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tracy McGrady, Towns). Porzingis has produced the only two games with at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks and five 3-pointers made in NBA history (37 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks and five 3s vs. the L.A. Lakers on Dec. 12, 2017; 38 points, 13 boards, five blocks and six 3s at Minnesota on March 1, 2020).

GustavBahler wrote:If this isnt enough for you to believe that KP is skilled enough to be considered a top 30 player, dont know what else to tell you.

As a 21-year-old in 2016-17, Porzingis became one of three players in NBA history, 22 years or younger, to make 100-plus 3-pointers and block 100-plus shots in a season (Dirk Nowitzki, 2000-01; Karl-Anthony Towns, 2016-17 and 2017-18). He was named an All-Star in 2018 but did not play due to injury.

Porzingis has earned Player of the Week honors twice in his career (Eastern Conference POW, Oct. 30 to Nov. 5, 2017; Western Conference POW, Feb. 24 to March 1, 2020). In 2019-20, “The Unicorn” became the fastest player to 400-plus 3-pointers made and 400-plus blocks in NBA history (233 games). He also became one of five players in league history to record at least 4,000 points, 1,500 rebounds, 400 3-pointers made and 400 blocks before his 25th birthday (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tracy McGrady, Towns). Porzingis has produced the only two games with at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks and five 3-pointers made in NBA history (37 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks and five 3s vs. the L.A. Lakers on Dec. 12, 2017; 38 points, 13 boards, five blocks and six 3s at Minnesota on March 1, 2020).

A “top 30” player who never plays and has become a turnstile on defense

GustavBahler wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Welpee wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck.

For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.

I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.

I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):

1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns

Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?

I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.

Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."

This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.

Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.

So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.

By your metric no, by mine yes.

I'll make it super easy. How about KP being in the top 30 of unrealized potential in the league? Top 5 even? He might even make it in to the Hall of Fame of players who could have been the leagues top players if not for injuries. Right up there with the great Greg Oden and such. Truly top players. But not in NBA, not in the fantasy league. The world definitely needs a new category to have him be a leader of. Too much of a unicorn 🦄 for the reality

What a pissy little comment. I dont know how long it takes you to figure out how good a player is, To project how far they can take that talent, you need to get an extended look. Difficult if they have trouble staying healthy. Doesnt mean that you cant see that they already have definable skills. Maybe you cant IDK.

Greg Oden wasnt nearly as skilled as KP. He was an old school big. Couldnt drain the 3, take guards off the dribble. Defend guards. Porzingis has skills, how much better he will get depends on his health. If my stating that upsets you, thats your problem.

Hahaha, did I sound upset? Not even close. You calling my comments "pissy" probably means that I am not the one that has a "problem".

Anyway, did I say something that's not true?

How about this. Special skills? Sure, he is a unicorn 🦄

Let's me ask you this, out of the top 30 centers listed who is a worse rebounder than KP? Is that crickets? Hahaha, I thought so. Riddle me this then next, out of the centers in the top 30 who shoots a lower fg% Oohhh, damn. That's cold.But I am not making this up. I am just talking about his skills right there. Maybe we should expand the list to top 50 players. Probably wouldn't help his cause, hehe. Can anyone say empty stats?

Is being available a skill? Sure it is. The guy is a bumbling wreck of assorted injuries out there. What do you think about that? Maybe we should look at how clutch he is? That's a skill too you know. In another thread we compared Melo's clutchness to that of Kobe. Let's me tell you something now, KP is not in that convo and if we did compare him I can assure you he would come up as a choker of highest order. How can I say that without even looking up the numbers? Well because KP is a little girl when compared to clutch backetball players. Is leadership a skill? So far it has not been reflected by any type of metrics. If it was, how's that working out for "Mr. This teams progress is not good enough for me"? See the sulking after Luka's game winner for the answer.