crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

holfresh wrote:
We don't suck because of Rose, or Melo for that matter... We suck because the coach doesn't coach defense the players don't play defense...

There, fixed it for you.

its incredible. Everyone in the league knows Melo hasnt played defense since he's come in the league and this guy wants to blame the coach. Melo's a hell of a player, but he doesnt elevate teammates and doesnt play defense. He's a good rebounder so you can put him that 4... (where we have 4 other guys)

Melo has always been on above average defensive teams and always made the playoffs before Phil.

The Denver Nuggets were 11th in defensive ranking in 2003-04 (Karl, made playoffs, Melo's rookie season)

The Denver Nuggets were 10th in defensive ranking in 2004-05 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 15th in defensive ranking in 2005-06 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 9th in defensive ranking in 2006-07 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 11th in defensive ranking in 2007-08 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 8th in defensive ranking in 2008-09 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 8th in defensive ranking in 2009-10 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 15th in defensive ranking in 2010-11 (D'Antoni, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 10th in defensive ranking in 2011-12 (D'Antoni, Woodson takes over final 24 games, Knicks are 5th in defense during Woodson's 24 games, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 7th in defensive ranking in 2012-13 (Woodson, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 18th in defensive ranking in 2013-14 (Woodson, but also Bargnani. Tyson Chandler misses 40 games broken leg, missed playoffs despite a furious late charge once Chandler was healthy)

Phil Jackson begins rebuilding and instilling principals of triangular loving

The Knicks were LAST in defensive ranking in 2014-15 (Fisher, missed playoffs, Melo misses half season)

The Knicks were 23rd in defensive ranking in 2015-16 (Fisher, Rambis, second rebuild, Rambis declares "Year 0", missed playoffs)

The Knicks are 25th in defensive ranking in 2016-17 (Hornacek, missed playoffs?, third rebuild)

Crzy, are you really implying Melo is a good defender? I think that would be news to everyone, including melo himself

there were some defensive studs on some of those teams

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

holfresh wrote:
We don't suck because of Rose, or Melo for that matter... We suck because the coach doesn't coach defense the players don't play defense...

There, fixed it for you.

its incredible. Everyone in the league knows Melo hasnt played defense since he's come in the league and this guy wants to blame the coach. Melo's a hell of a player, but he doesnt elevate teammates and doesnt play defense. He's a good rebounder so you can put him that 4... (where we have 4 other guys)

Melo has always been on above average defensive teams and always made the playoffs before Phil.

The Denver Nuggets were 11th in defensive ranking in 2003-04 (Karl, made playoffs, Melo's rookie season)

The Denver Nuggets were 10th in defensive ranking in 2004-05 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 15th in defensive ranking in 2005-06 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 9th in defensive ranking in 2006-07 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 11th in defensive ranking in 2007-08 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 8th in defensive ranking in 2008-09 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 8th in defensive ranking in 2009-10 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 15th in defensive ranking in 2010-11 (D'Antoni, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 10th in defensive ranking in 2011-12 (D'Antoni, Woodson takes over final 24 games, Knicks are 5th in defense during Woodson's 24 games, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 7th in defensive ranking in 2012-13 (Woodson, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 18th in defensive ranking in 2013-14 (Woodson, but also Bargnani. Tyson Chandler misses 40 games broken leg, missed playoffs despite a furious late charge once Chandler was healthy)

Phil Jackson begins rebuilding and instilling principals of triangular loving

The Knicks were LAST in defensive ranking in 2014-15 (Fisher, missed playoffs, Melo misses half season)

The Knicks were 23rd in defensive ranking in 2015-16 (Fisher, Rambis, second rebuild, Rambis declares "Year 0", missed playoffs)

The Knicks are 25th in defensive ranking in 2016-17 (Hornacek, missed playoffs?, third rebuild)

Crzy, are you really implying Melo is a good defender? I think that would be news to everyone, including melo himself

there were some defensive studs on some of those teams

I don't think Melo is a good defender. What I'm implying is that a good team defense can be constructed around Melo by someone who knows what they're doing.

crzymdups wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Melo says he's relaxed. Good for Melo. Yet Phil has had his share of prima Donna's and won't be pushed around. Bring in Rubio let's see if Melo prefers Rubio or Chris Paul. Phil is forcing the action on the ntc. That simple.

Yeah, I think Phil needs to make a point about the rebuild today. Then I think there can be a Melo to Clippers trade this summer.

How do you think Noah fits in rebuild? Is he not main problem? Not Melo?
How will Rubio signal rebuild? Rose is gone at end of year anyway. Only move that makes sense is to trade Rose for picks. The focus should be on that. And a prayer that someone is dumb enough to take Noah for a bag of peanuts.

holfresh wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:If we get Rubio, cool, he should be a nice fit with KP and Willy. My only concern is he makes us better and we lose momentum towards a high pick. Sometimes a trade like this really sparks a run. But either way, Rose needs to go. If a deal around Rose/Rubio doesn't happen, i would be fine giving Rose away. There has to be a 2nd round pick and expiring out there for him. Just get him off the team so we can move on. Every move should be made with an eye on a future built around KP and Willy, and that starts with Rose leaving in my opinion.

He hasn't sparked Minny his entire career, why would you worry about that??

Its about talent and fit... Rose is averaging 17/4 for us and we suck. Thibs wants to play an attacking style like he did in Chicago. Passing and play making from the PG is not the style he wants. The Knicks want to play a team game and we all want Kristaps and Willy to get the ball more. Rubio is currently 5th on the league in assists. Since the new year Rubio has been averaging 10 assist a game... breaking off 15,-17 assist games a few times.

We need a pg that is a willing passer... well over 30 players in the NBA average more assist a game than Rose.... Dude his back up point guard Jennings averages more assists and he's playing just about half the minutes..... that's all our problems right there.

We don't suck because of Rose, or Melo for that matter...We suck because the coach doesn't coach defense..Will Rubio make the Coach coach defense???

Your assist numbers will be lower when Melo have to carry the offense...The guy who takes the most shots creates for himself..Does Jennings play with Melo, what are his assist numbers when he plays with Melo??..What was his assist numbers when Rose was out??..These things aren't hard to figure out...

What does it really matter...We are "building" in circles..We have no direction...We certainly aren't winning anything...

Where do you get that we don't coach defense?? If JH is always talking about how our defense needs to be better after every game i would think they coach it in practice. Are you at the closed practices?? That would be the only way you would know and i'm guessing that you're not at the closed practices so how do you know they don't coach defense??

stanleybostitch wrote:

holfresh wrote:
We don't suck because of Rose, or Melo for that matter... We suck because the coach doesn't coach defense the players don't play defense...

There, fixed it for you.

EXACTLY

crzymdups wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

holfresh wrote:
We don't suck because of Rose, or Melo for that matter... We suck because the coach doesn't coach defense the players don't play defense...

There, fixed it for you.

its incredible. Everyone in the league knows Melo hasnt played defense since he's come in the league and this guy wants to blame the coach. Melo's a hell of a player, but he doesnt elevate teammates and doesnt play defense. He's a good rebounder so you can put him that 4... (where we have 4 other guys)

Melo has always been on above average defensive teams and always made the playoffs before Phil.

The Denver Nuggets were 11th in defensive ranking in 2003-04 (Karl, made playoffs, Melo's rookie season)

The Denver Nuggets were 10th in defensive ranking in 2004-05 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 15th in defensive ranking in 2005-06 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 9th in defensive ranking in 2006-07 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 11th in defensive ranking in 2007-08 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 8th in defensive ranking in 2008-09 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 8th in defensive ranking in 2009-10 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 15th in defensive ranking in 2010-11 (D'Antoni, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 10th in defensive ranking in 2011-12 (D'Antoni, Woodson takes over final 24 games, Knicks are 5th in defense during Woodson's 24 games, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 7th in defensive ranking in 2012-13 (Woodson, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 18th in defensive ranking in 2013-14 (Woodson, but also Bargnani. Tyson Chandler misses 40 games broken leg, missed playoffs despite a furious late charge once Chandler was healthy)

Phil Jackson begins rebuilding and instilling principals of triangular loving

The Knicks were LAST in defensive ranking in 2014-15 (Fisher, missed playoffs, Melo misses half season)

The Knicks were 23rd in defensive ranking in 2015-16 (Fisher, Rambis, second rebuild, Rambis declares "Year 0", missed playoffs)

The Knicks are 25th in defensive ranking in 2016-17 (Hornacek, missed playoffs?, third rebuild)

Crzy, are you really implying Melo is a good defender? I think that would be news to everyone, including melo himself

there were some defensive studs on some of those teams

I don't think Melo is a good defender. What I'm implying is that a good team defense can be constructed around Melo by someone who knows what they're doing.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

holfresh wrote:
We don't suck because of Rose, or Melo for that matter... We suck because the coach doesn't coach defense the players don't play defense...

There, fixed it for you.

its incredible. Everyone in the league knows Melo hasnt played defense since he's come in the league and this guy wants to blame the coach. Melo's a hell of a player, but he doesnt elevate teammates and doesnt play defense. He's a good rebounder so you can put him that 4... (where we have 4 other guys)

Melo has always been on above average defensive teams and always made the playoffs before Phil.

The Denver Nuggets were 11th in defensive ranking in 2003-04 (Karl, made playoffs, Melo's rookie season)

The Denver Nuggets were 10th in defensive ranking in 2004-05 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 15th in defensive ranking in 2005-06 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 9th in defensive ranking in 2006-07 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 11th in defensive ranking in 2007-08 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 8th in defensive ranking in 2008-09 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 8th in defensive ranking in 2009-10 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 15th in defensive ranking in 2010-11 (D'Antoni, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 10th in defensive ranking in 2011-12 (D'Antoni, Woodson takes over final 24 games, Knicks are 5th in defense during Woodson's 24 games, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 7th in defensive ranking in 2012-13 (Woodson, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 18th in defensive ranking in 2013-14 (Woodson, but also Bargnani. Tyson Chandler misses 40 games broken leg, missed playoffs despite a furious late charge once Chandler was healthy)

Phil Jackson begins rebuilding and instilling principals of triangular loving

The Knicks were LAST in defensive ranking in 2014-15 (Fisher, missed playoffs, Melo misses half season)

The Knicks were 23rd in defensive ranking in 2015-16 (Fisher, Rambis, second rebuild, Rambis declares "Year 0", missed playoffs)

The Knicks are 25th in defensive ranking in 2016-17 (Hornacek, missed playoffs?, third rebuild)

Crzy, are you really implying Melo is a good defender? I think that would be news to everyone, including melo himself

there were some defensive studs on some of those teams

I don't think Melo is a good defender. What I'm implying is that a good team defense can be constructed around Melo by someone who knows what they're doing.

100% agree. It also means committing to building around Melo, which Phil was pretty half assed in. Noah was a bad. Rose was a bad fit. We can still fix this and put the players in place. What are you willing to give up? Future #1s? Willy? We have some pieces. What do you want to give up to build around Melo and to what end?

I agree too... I don't think that we're too far off. Courtney Lee (not this year) has produced defensive win shares. Lance Thomas has not but most think of him as a defensive player. KP has produced defensive win shares. Rubio has produced defensive win shares.

We all know Melo plays his best at PF these days... and believe it or not, he's also produced a decent amount of defensive win shares throughout his career.

I know the Knicks have played some ****ty d of late but if they'd emphasize it and get the right guys in the lineup I do think this team could make vast improvements in that arena

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

holfresh wrote:
We don't suck because of Rose, or Melo for that matter... We suck because the coach doesn't coach defense the players don't play defense...

There, fixed it for you.

its incredible. Everyone in the league knows Melo hasnt played defense since he's come in the league and this guy wants to blame the coach. Melo's a hell of a player, but he doesnt elevate teammates and doesnt play defense. He's a good rebounder so you can put him that 4... (where we have 4 other guys)

Melo has always been on above average defensive teams and always made the playoffs before Phil.

The Denver Nuggets were 11th in defensive ranking in 2003-04 (Karl, made playoffs, Melo's rookie season)

The Denver Nuggets were 10th in defensive ranking in 2004-05 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 15th in defensive ranking in 2005-06 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 9th in defensive ranking in 2006-07 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 11th in defensive ranking in 2007-08 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 8th in defensive ranking in 2008-09 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Denver Nuggets were 8th in defensive ranking in 2009-10 (Karl, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 15th in defensive ranking in 2010-11 (D'Antoni, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 10th in defensive ranking in 2011-12 (D'Antoni, Woodson takes over final 24 games, Knicks are 5th in defense during Woodson's 24 games, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 7th in defensive ranking in 2012-13 (Woodson, made playoffs)

The Knicks were 18th in defensive ranking in 2013-14 (Woodson, but also Bargnani. Tyson Chandler misses 40 games broken leg, missed playoffs despite a furious late charge once Chandler was healthy)

Phil Jackson begins rebuilding and instilling principals of triangular loving

The Knicks were LAST in defensive ranking in 2014-15 (Fisher, missed playoffs, Melo misses half season)

The Knicks were 23rd in defensive ranking in 2015-16 (Fisher, Rambis, second rebuild, Rambis declares "Year 0", missed playoffs)

The Knicks are 25th in defensive ranking in 2016-17 (Hornacek, missed playoffs?, third rebuild)

Crzy, are you really implying Melo is a good defender? I think that would be news to everyone, including melo himself

there were some defensive studs on some of those teams

I don't think Melo is a good defender. What I'm implying is that a good team defense can be constructed around Melo by someone who knows what they're doing.

100% agree. It also means committing to building around Melo, which Phil was pretty half assed in. Noah was a bad. Rose was a bad fit. We can still fix this and put the players in place. What are you willing to give up? Future #1s? Willy? We have some pieces. What do you want to give up to build around Melo and to what end?

Why are we talking about melo on a Ricky Rubio for rose thread

HofstraBBall wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Paris907 wrote:Melo says he's relaxed. Good for Melo. Yet Phil has had his share of prima Donna's and won't be pushed around. Bring in Rubio let's see if Melo prefers Rubio or Chris Paul. Phil is forcing the action on the ntc. That simple.

Yeah, I think Phil needs to make a point about the rebuild today. Then I think there can be a Melo to Clippers trade this summer.

How do you think Noah fits in rebuild? Is he not main problem? Not Melo?
How will Rubio signal rebuild? Rose is gone at end of year anyway. Only move that makes sense is to trade Rose for picks. The focus should be on that. And a prayer that someone is dumb enough to take Noah for a bag of peanuts.

The Knicks have Rose out there and every team knows it so they're trying and doing whatever they can to trade him but you can't force teams to trade for him. People act like Phil and S.Mills aren't doing whatever they can top trade whoever they can for any type of return that helps our future so young players and draft picks but when teams only want to give you guys on bad contracts or guys that don't help our future then what is it you think Phil and Steve can do?? No matter how much we don't like Phil or Mills they're the guys that know the direction they want this team to go and they're the guys that know what players will help us and which ones won't cause we don't know what their plan is for this rebuild.

holfresh wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

holfresh wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

holfresh wrote:
We don't suck because of Rose, or Melo for that matter... We suck because the coach doesn't coach defense the players don't play defense...

There, fixed it for you.

The first month of the season the team practiced defense against the triangle...No one else plays the triangle in this league...Maybe we were getting prepared just in case another team breaks out the triangle...Our Minister of Defense is Rambis right??

I'm not a Rambis fan, but the idea of playing effectively in a system, for both offense and defense, is the goal, not slavish devotion to the triangle. It is about system ball, that is what Phil has been preaching and that is what Hornacek is trying to instill - but it is a challenge when you have guys who play iso, don't look to pass, and give half effort on defense/don't know their assignments.

Knicks haven't won a game without Melo in two years..But that's ok...I have no illusions anything positive will happen in the next few years...These are the Rory Sparrow years..We hae been going sideways to lower the last three years...

Dude, I grew up in the Rory Sparrow years - don't be disrespecting my idols! Seriously though, these are NOT a repeat of that sad stretch of mediocrity. We are finally, FINALLY on the cusp of great things with our front court foundation, all our picks, ample cap space, and a front office that understands that system ball is winning ball. Night and day difference from the 80's.

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