meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

martin wrote:

arkrud wrote:

martin wrote:

arkrud wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

arkrud wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

arkrud wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:That's because he is reactive and not proactive. At least he finally attempted to unite us with his last briefing instead of further dividing us. He has a tendency to flame fires without having all the facts. He manages to inject the same rhetoric every time which further divides us. No matter what the issue it is guns are always to blame and he refuses to acknowledge the world has a serious problem with radical terrorism. A whole lotta nothin until the next disaster he has to get back up there and address.

Wow.

There have been over 100,000 deaths by gun in this country since 20 children were executed by an assault rifle near my home town in Sandy Hook, CT in December 2012, less than four years ago. You could fill the largest stadium in the world with the dead Americans from gun violence in that time span.

How many deaths by radical terrorism?

An actual divisive force in this country is the NRA and gun manufacturers which profit off the deaths of American citizens and pays Congress to keep it that way.

You think we would need militarized police forces if it wasn't legal to buy AR-15 assault rifles and unlimited ammo? The police are scared, rightly so, they can be outgunned in many situations. But they're overreacting and shooting first far too often.

How exactly is Obama dividing people? Show me a quote of words he actually said.

You know what divides people? The racist rhetoric spewed by FOX news blaming Obama for problems that the GOP and Fox head Roger Ailes have a direct hand in perpetuating. FOX News is a disgusting blight on this country and their racist, toxic lies about Obama and basically anything else they can profit off lying about are ****ing disgusting.

How many of those 100,000 deaths were from registered guns vs illegal guns?

82% of guns in mass shootings are obtained legally. Thanks, NRA!

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/most-guns-mass-shootings-obtained-legally

I tried looking for the info on all gun shootings, but I couldn't find any site that wasn't a NRA funded bull**** think tank. Hard to find the actual stats. The NRA wants it that way.

Obama - "I can put someone on the no fly list but I cant keep them from buying an automatic weapon."

But yea... lets blame the president.

Politicians are a disgrace in this country. Nothing but blame and no action. Guys like McCain saying things like "Obama is culpable for Orlando shooting by letting ISIS grow in the US"

Can we also blame Bush for every death in Iraq after taking us to war over weapons of mass destruction a straight up lie?

We absolutely have to blame Bush and his terrible presidency.
Mindless aggressive polices by Bush administration replaced by mindless passive by Obama administration.
Both parties are political bankrupts.
No leaders to look up to. And this presidents election even a bigger joke.
Selecting form bitch and clown... mockery.

You have to realize that Obama did do plenty. And at every single turn he was blocked by the GOP Congress. The GOP Congress who has voted down any gun reform law in this country. The GOP doesn't even want to perform terrorist background checks on people who buy automatic weapons. Why don't they want to? Because they are paid to vote that way by the gun lobby, made up of the NRA and gun manufacturers. Similar to the oil lobby who have paid the GOP to call coal a "a clean fuel".

The GOP is a mockery. Trump is the perfect clown candidate to represent them. But the real danger they pose is at the Congress level, where their obstructionist voting stops any real change from happening in this country. Again, the only reason they do this is to get rich from lobbyists. There are dirty politicians on the Democratic side, too, but nowhere near as bad. Just check the voting records in the Senate. It's an embarrassment. It's worse than an embarrassment, it should be called what it is - criminal negligence.

Plenty... meaning what specifically?
His job is to unite people and political parties around common goals to make good for the whole country.
The gun issues must be depoliticized.
If politics cannot come together on this it should be put on national referendum.
Absolute majority of US citizens will support background checks and mental checks requirements for gun ownership.
And it should be yearly re-qualification process to keep gun licenses valid.
It will require a lot of financing to implement and maintain but it worth it as it will save thousands of lives.
I want to see a comprehensive non-partisan plan on this from president and drive from him to put all population behind the plan to push it through the legislation.

So Obama's job is to make the GOP not an embarrassment to the country? Why doesn't the GOP pick itself up by its bootstraps?

You cannot get blood from the stone.
Who cares if GOP or DEMs are an embarrassment? All politicians are.
President should step above this snake-nest and put public behind him.
Instead we see only politically correct bulsht.

These types of over-generalizations and not reality based situations don't help your message or argument at all

I cannot see any of current politicians I can rely on.
Every time they are asked why they are not acting on the issue they blame their political opponents for blocking them.
If you have a will you will find a way. I see only excuses.

I must say you haven't been paying close attention to the policatal process over the past years than. That's clearly obvious

Not obvious for me...
What break through I have missed?

It feels more and more like you missed everything from the second world war onward.

You are parroting spent stereotypes from the past with no coherence or clear understanding of what you are talking about. You have no context of real life (outside of your own precious little bubble) and you are spewing this utter poppycock at people who are patiently explaining to you how far off you are from reality.

1. Capitalism is a system of elites that cannot be corrupted? Exactly where is this defined?
2. Capitalism cannot fail because of a system of controls? What controls? Have you heard of Enron, Bernie Madoff, The banking sector and TBTF?
3. Socialism always leads to corruption? Even the fukking bible led to corruption - ask the little boys that get sexually violated by the clergy. Corruption is a fact of human life pointing to one system over another as the cause for corruption just shows how limited your understanding is.
4. Here - read about the countries most supportive of free trade and capitalism - these are most corrupt places in the world right now, where at 10-25% of the population is not just poor they are destitue. They eat food trash from garbage dumps to stay alive, while you make your gilded speeches about elites. http://www.forbes.com/sites/alyssaayres/2014/10/28/bangladesh-capitalist-haven/#3ec37dc942b7
5. And talking about a society where people care about each other is politically correct bull****? - Got it.

I am not interested in going back and forth with you, you really seem to be a sad, selfish and empty human being.

You can continue to be in your bubble and believe in things that fail.
Capitalism in not perfect by any stretch so is human race in general.
We have ways to go to became successful civilization and may never get there at all.
And please do not defend your opinions by finding something wrong in concept you do not like and people you cannot make agree with you. This shows you insecurity and your lack of confidence in your own views.

This is exactly what you have done through out this entire thread.

Really???
I never called out anyone personally.
Never was disrespectful to anybody opinion and was only providing arguments to prove my points.
It was also an interesting experiment for me to get a feel on how minorities are treated.
Obviously I am a minority on the board.
And I can tell you it is not easy but I think I can handle this so you also should be able to do it.
No offense.

meloanyk wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

meloanyk wrote:President Obama has great oratory skills, intelligence and soul but he missed the opportunity over the years to directly challenge his own race to address their own failings. The reality is blacks have made no progress in educational achievement, job growth or cultural advancements during his presidency despite programs in place to assist. His election should have been a turning point for Black Americans but it has not been. Some will say that President Obama failed his race but I think the opposite happened, today's black culture failed him. President Obama did not have to deliver an idiotic Pastor Manning rant but he should have been more encompassing and challenging when addressing what plagues the black race. Society can and does assist but it's up to black people to retake their neighborhoods and share priorities that change the pipeline from school to prison to cradle to college. Some here may recall the Pound Cake speech that Bill Cosby delivered years ago to the NAACP. He was highly critical of black communities for their lack of parenting and responsibility, the prevalence of single parent families and incidental babies, frivolous ways at the expense of necessities and other behaviors such as ghetto vernacular instead of proper English. He cited present African Americans norms and culture as destructive to its own and the main drivers of wide gaps in achievement rather than discrimination,, policing or government policies. He made little excuse for the crimes of the incarcerated and lamented the absence of real black men of years past who were more accountable. He urged blacks to eschew their pathological embrace of victimization, violence and welfare and help themselves just like other minorities of race and color have done to advance. Now I realize, Cosby views will be minimized as a condescending Uncle Tom elitist especially after his rape allegations but he spoke out on self inflicted problems that should be in full discussions but are not because they are not politically correct or convenient. To my surprise, Bill Clinton of all people has recently touched the surface on them as well as black conservatives. I respected the integrity of President Obama but always found his direct addresses to be incomplete messages

You're using Bill Cosby? Bill Cosby who was accused of sexually assaulting over 50 women? I mean, it killed me to hear that Cosby story come out, loved his comedy as a kid, but you could not pick a bigger hypocrit or liar to quote. What he says is completely irrelevant at this point.

The "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality is often spouted by idiots like Trump who were born rich and wouldn't know how to pick themselves up by their bootstraps if their bootstraps could talk and told them what to do.

Again, Obama tried plenty of different things. All blocked by the GOP. What are these great programs that slipped through? What are these amazing programs that black people continue to ignore? Please tell me and I'll tell all my friends about them. Why haven't black people been able to overcome 240 years of institutionalized racism during Obama's 8-year Presidency?

Don't try to oversimplify the problem. There's institutional racism at every level of American life. From the way neighborhoods are segregated, from the way cops treat black suspects vs white, from the way criminal sentences are handed down, from quality of schools in different neighborhoods, from quality of hospitals available to people with low or no insurance vs people with great health care. The problem is systematic and needs years of work and addressing at many different levels.

A white man and a black man commit the same crime - the white man gets probation, the black man gets three years in prison and his life is effectively ruined. Read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander - this **** happens every day in America. I have a friend who is a public defender in NYC and he can barely stand to go to work anymore, such is the institutional racism at the trial and sentencing level of the NYC courts. Cosby is either lying or doesn't know what he's talking about.

Obama can only do so much, particularly when he is faced with an obstructionist GOP Congress. But the larger problem is part of the fabric of America. We can work our asses off and if we're lucky, it'll be better in 50 years and we can leave a better world to our kids. But there has to be an ACKNOWLEDGMENT of the problem. Don't blame Obama for not doing enough. Don't blame black people for whatever the **** Cosby is talking about. Look at the systems - how can we change those? It won't happen overnight, but it has to happen.

Yes, how strange is the concept of proper upbringing , self determination and improvement. Koreans, Indians or other minorities rise above hurdles and language barriers as they EDUCATE themselves at all costs and sacrifice, they strive. The people who make your schools what they are the students and their parents but lets blame everybody and everything else. Spare me the silver spoons story, my dad had zero when he came here, he worked at a deli and sacrificed 365 days, i lived in what basically was a large closet off my parents bedroom with a sister and two brother and a basement bathroom was shared. So I worked two jobs and went to night school. Cosby hit it right on the head, change for the better and do your part to resolve gaps

As far as police and the criminal system , this is one site I read that sheds light without the slants of ideologies http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime/19439

+1

I would add that one difference is that they do not have leaders who are "looking out for them".

Also, the Chinese and Japanese are similar in how they do it. Each of these races mentioned put family above all else. Family structure has much to do with this.

The reason for the lack of family and destruction of family values, is another part of the discussion.

Every single person.

misterearl wrote:arkrud and gonygo - please stop with the stereotypical descriptions. Family is the most important thing to everyone.

Every single person.

My apologies. OF course family is important to all equally. Not all face the same obstacles and circumstances. What is important is that we all have an equal chance. That is what I hope we can achieve.

meloanyk wrote:

misterearl wrote:arkrud and gonygo - please stop with the stereotypical descriptions. Family is the most important thing to everyone.

Every single person.

When people refer to family structure, they are talking about the nuclear family, a couple and their dependent children, it is as a basic social unit. It takes two committed parents, working hard and sacrificing for their children with cultural norms establishing direction and guidance from birth. In all those other minorities mentioned, education is stressed and monitored. It is not a sterotype to say that there has been a degradation of nuclear familes in black communities where the out of wedlock birthrate among blacks is 72% resulting in a preponderance of single parent households with many reliance on welfare. Study after study show that people of all races with high rates of out of wedlock births suffer higher unemployment and higher crime rates and black author Tom Sowell has cited this in his studies as a prime driver for the disprpotinate crime rates and income levels of blacks. The cultural norm that accept bearing children without benefit of marriage-72%- and absent fathers is a major issue facing black America going forward and needs to recognized and addressed by the black community to change and escape a culture of poverty for so many

Cool, we'll just keep getting shot and suffer injustice until you feel like we've cleaned our act up enough for you to stop pertifogging the issue and actually giving a damn. Hope your age-old anecdotes about how we are the worst ethnic group gets you to sleep at night.

meloanyk wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

misterearl wrote:arkrud and gonygo - please stop with the stereotypical descriptions. Family is the most important thing to everyone.

Every single person.

When people refer to family structure, they are talking about the nuclear family, a couple and their dependent children, it is as a basic social unit. It takes two committed parents, working hard and sacrificing for their children with cultural norms establishing direction and guidance from birth. In all those other minorities mentioned, education is stressed and monitored. It is not a sterotype to say that there has been a degradation of nuclear familes in black communities where the out of wedlock birthrate among blacks is 72% resulting in a preponderance of single parent households with many reliance on welfare. Study after study show that people of all races with high rates of out of wedlock births suffer higher unemployment and higher crime rates and black author Tom Sowell has cited this in his studies as a prime driver for the disprpotinate crime rates and income levels of blacks. The cultural norm that accept bearing children without benefit of marriage-72%- and absent fathers is a major issue facing black America going forward and needs to recognized and addressed by the black community to change and escape a culture of poverty for so many

Cool, we'll just keep getting shot and suffer injustice until you feel like we've cleaned our act up enough for you to stop pertifogging the issue and actually giving a damn. Hope your age-old anecdotes about how we are the worst ethnic group gets you to sleep at night.

Childish response. I would not be surprised if I've volunteered more in poor black communities that you have, it's not to cleanse my soul but to simply help. Started in hs and the younger generation of family continues the tradition of volunteering to the less fortunate. Just last month my nephew collected alot of used lax equipment that is quite expensive to donate to Harlem Lacrosse in addition to teaching the sport. I cite a serious and pertinent issue backed by facts that undermine black communities and do so not to the exclusion or dismissal of other points. You should not limit the scope of contributing factors if you want to make true progress

Yup you must be better at helping black people than me. The nerve.

meloanyk wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

misterearl wrote:arkrud and gonygo - please stop with the stereotypical descriptions. Family is the most important thing to everyone.

Every single person.

When people refer to family structure, they are talking about the nuclear family, a couple and their dependent children, it is as a basic social unit. It takes two committed parents, working hard and sacrificing for their children with cultural norms establishing direction and guidance from birth. In all those other minorities mentioned, education is stressed and monitored. It is not a sterotype to say that there has been a degradation of nuclear familes in black communities where the out of wedlock birthrate among blacks is 72% resulting in a preponderance of single parent households with many reliance on welfare. Study after study show that people of all races with high rates of out of wedlock births suffer higher unemployment and higher crime rates and black author Tom Sowell has cited this in his studies as a prime driver for the disprpotinate crime rates and income levels of blacks. The cultural norm that accept bearing children without benefit of marriage-72%- and absent fathers is a major issue facing black America going forward and needs to recognized and addressed by the black community to change and escape a culture of poverty for so many

Cool, we'll just keep getting shot and suffer injustice until you feel like we've cleaned our act up enough for you to stop pertifogging the issue and actually giving a damn. Hope your age-old anecdotes about how we are the worst ethnic group gets you to sleep at night.

Childish response. I would not be surprised if I've volunteered more in poor black communities that you have, it's not to cleanse my soul but to simply help. Started in hs and the younger generation of family continues the tradition of volunteering to the less fortunate. Just last month my nephew collected alot of used lax equipment that is quite expensive to donate to Harlem Lacrosse in addition to teaching the sport. I cite a serious and pertinent issue backed by facts that undermine black communities and do so not to the exclusion or dismissal of other points. You should not limit the scope of contributing factors if you want to make true progress

Blakcs don't benifit from poor family structure, poor education, and division. So if these are the issues permitting blacks from advancing why do you believe that blacks choose to ignore these issues.

newyorknewyork wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

misterearl wrote:arkrud and gonygo - please stop with the stereotypical descriptions. Family is the most important thing to everyone.

Every single person.

When people refer to family structure, they are talking about the nuclear family, a couple and their dependent children, it is as a basic social unit. It takes two committed parents, working hard and sacrificing for their children with cultural norms establishing direction and guidance from birth. In all those other minorities mentioned, education is stressed and monitored. It is not a sterotype to say that there has been a degradation of nuclear familes in black communities where the out of wedlock birthrate among blacks is 72% resulting in a preponderance of single parent households with many reliance on welfare. Study after study show that people of all races with high rates of out of wedlock births suffer higher unemployment and higher crime rates and black author Tom Sowell has cited this in his studies as a prime driver for the disprpotinate crime rates and income levels of blacks. The cultural norm that accept bearing children without benefit of marriage-72%- and absent fathers is a major issue facing black America going forward and needs to recognized and addressed by the black community to change and escape a culture of poverty for so many

Cool, we'll just keep getting shot and suffer injustice until you feel like we've cleaned our act up enough for you to stop pertifogging the issue and actually giving a damn. Hope your age-old anecdotes about how we are the worst ethnic group gets you to sleep at night.

Childish response. I would not be surprised if I've volunteered more in poor black communities that you have, it's not to cleanse my soul but to simply help. Started in hs and the younger generation of family continues the tradition of volunteering to the less fortunate. Just last month my nephew collected alot of used lax equipment that is quite expensive to donate to Harlem Lacrosse in addition to teaching the sport. I cite a serious and pertinent issue backed by facts that undermine black communities and do so not to the exclusion or dismissal of other points. You should not limit the scope of contributing factors if you want to make true progress

Blakcs don't benifit from poor family structure, poor education, and division. So if these are the issues permitting blacks from advancing why do you believe that blacks choose to ignore these issues.

Your question gets to the crux of accountabilty. Do you think out of wedlock births is something within a person's control and can be reduced? Do you think it would be better for children to be raised in a nuclear family than by a single parent ?Do you think the learning environment can be improved by disciplining or removing unruly kids from the classroom ? Do you think that it is better to take a job that affords growth potential even if it may pay less than welfare?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/melvillehouse/status/753984988899487746

meloanyk wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

misterearl wrote:arkrud and gonygo - please stop with the stereotypical descriptions. Family is the most important thing to everyone.

Every single person.

When people refer to family structure, they are talking about the nuclear family, a couple and their dependent children, it is as a basic social unit. It takes two committed parents, working hard and sacrificing for their children with cultural norms establishing direction and guidance from birth. In all those other minorities mentioned, education is stressed and monitored. It is not a sterotype to say that there has been a degradation of nuclear familes in black communities where the out of wedlock birthrate among blacks is 72% resulting in a preponderance of single parent households with many reliance on welfare. Study after study show that people of all races with high rates of out of wedlock births suffer higher unemployment and higher crime rates and black author Tom Sowell has cited this in his studies as a prime driver for the disprpotinate crime rates and income levels of blacks. The cultural norm that accept bearing children without benefit of marriage-72%- and absent fathers is a major issue facing black America going forward and needs to recognized and addressed by the black community to change and escape a culture of poverty for so many

Cool, we'll just keep getting shot and suffer injustice until you feel like we've cleaned our act up enough for you to stop pertifogging the issue and actually giving a damn. Hope your age-old anecdotes about how we are the worst ethnic group gets you to sleep at night.

Childish response. I would not be surprised if I've volunteered more in poor black communities that you have, it's not to cleanse my soul but to simply help. Started in hs and the younger generation of family continues the tradition of volunteering to the less fortunate. Just last month my nephew collected alot of used lax equipment that is quite expensive to donate to Harlem Lacrosse in addition to teaching the sport. I cite a serious and pertinent issue backed by facts that undermine black communities and do so not to the exclusion or dismissal of other points. You should not limit the scope of contributing factors if you want to make true progress

Blakcs don't benifit from poor family structure, poor education, and division. So if these are the issues permitting blacks from advancing why do you believe that blacks choose to ignore these issues.

Your question gets to the crux of accountabilty. Do you think out of wedlock births is something within a person's control and can be reduced? Do you think it would be better for children to be raised in a nuclear family than by a single parent ?Do you think the learning environment can be improved by disciplining or removing unruly kids from the classroom ? Do you think that it is better to take a job that affords growth potential even if it may pay less than welfare?

The supposed lack of traditional family value structure... do you think that may be tied to the issue that 1/3 of black men under 40 serve time in prison... for crimes that white men do not go to prison for when they commit the same crime? Read the New Jim Crow. It talks very well about how the supposed lack of nuclear families is tied inextricably to the institutional racism that fills up our for profit prisons. Seriously, read it. It addresses exactly what you are talking about, but deals with facts.

Also, this - every time a cop shoots first and kills a black man for no reason, guess what? That's another nuclear family down the drain.

crzymdups wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

misterearl wrote:arkrud and gonygo - please stop with the stereotypical descriptions. Family is the most important thing to everyone.

Every single person.

When people refer to family structure, they are talking about the nuclear family, a couple and their dependent children, it is as a basic social unit. It takes two committed parents, working hard and sacrificing for their children with cultural norms establishing direction and guidance from birth. In all those other minorities mentioned, education is stressed and monitored. It is not a sterotype to say that there has been a degradation of nuclear familes in black communities where the out of wedlock birthrate among blacks is 72% resulting in a preponderance of single parent households with many reliance on welfare. Study after study show that people of all races with high rates of out of wedlock births suffer higher unemployment and higher crime rates and black author Tom Sowell has cited this in his studies as a prime driver for the disprpotinate crime rates and income levels of blacks. The cultural norm that accept bearing children without benefit of marriage-72%- and absent fathers is a major issue facing black America going forward and needs to recognized and addressed by the black community to change and escape a culture of poverty for so many

Cool, we'll just keep getting shot and suffer injustice until you feel like we've cleaned our act up enough for you to stop pertifogging the issue and actually giving a damn. Hope your age-old anecdotes about how we are the worst ethnic group gets you to sleep at night.

Childish response. I would not be surprised if I've volunteered more in poor black communities that you have, it's not to cleanse my soul but to simply help. Started in hs and the younger generation of family continues the tradition of volunteering to the less fortunate. Just last month my nephew collected alot of used lax equipment that is quite expensive to donate to Harlem Lacrosse in addition to teaching the sport. I cite a serious and pertinent issue backed by facts that undermine black communities and do so not to the exclusion or dismissal of other points. You should not limit the scope of contributing factors if you want to make true progress

Blakcs don't benifit from poor family structure, poor education, and division. So if these are the issues permitting blacks from advancing why do you believe that blacks choose to ignore these issues.

Your question gets to the crux of accountability. Do you think out of wedlock births is something within a person's control and can be reduced? Do you think it would be better for children to be raised in a nuclear family than by a single parent ?Do you think the learning environment can be improved by disciplining or removing unruly kids from the classroom ? Do you think that it is better to take a job that affords growth potential even if it may pay less than welfare?

The supposed lack of traditional family value structure... do you think that may be tied to the issue that 1/3 of black men under 40 serve time in prison... for crimes that white men do not go to prison for when they commit the same crime? Read the New Jim Crow. It talks very well about how the supposed lack of nuclear families is tied inextricably to the institutional racism that fills up our for profit prisons. Seriously, read it. It addresses exactly what you are talking about, but deals with facts.

Also, this - every time a cop shoots first and kills a black man for no reason, guess what? That's another nuclear family down the drain.

When the playing field is even remotely level looking at family structure is a nice new set of data. There are such bigger obstacles that at this point we dont even know if thats an obstacle.