fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The best thing to come from this trade would be if it tricks Batum into coming. I would say Durant but he plays with a better and healthy version of Rose, Westbrook.

For all we know there is already an agent promise in place with players x,y or z. Maybe somehow this makes more sense tomorrow? Its not a deal I make, I dont like it but the Bargs trade? This is a gamble for sure but again... Knick fans are the only ones saying this deal is bad

Unless Grant is going to be an up and coming NBA starter....I don't see the gamble. If anything, I think Chicago could've gotten s better deal. Rolo and Grant are replaceable. Jose shouldn't be in the league. Rolo has reached his peak....I don't see the gamble.

shinmen wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I just saw the news. Are people really defending this trade? Are people really defending Phil? Phil just continue to make dumb mistake after dumb mistake. This is the same old knick, no culture change at all. Phil gave up Lopez for a player who has a name and no game. They traded for a bum. This is said day yo.

1yr left on his deal! This isn't trading for Bargnani and throwing in your lottery pick to sweeten the deal!

Lopez is the lottery pick. Grant is a 1st rd pick. This is like if a team gave us assets for Amare when he was in his last year.

Exactly

The idea is to bring in a player who isn't as far off from playing acceptable NBA guard as some make it seem. You let Horny work with Rose and see what he can do.

So I'll give the deal a D.

Bonn1997 wrote:Well, from an advanced stats perspective, this trade is a clear F. We gave up the best player in the deal and took on a team liability. For other reasons, I don't think it's quite as bad and I'd give it more like a D, and with a little optimism it could turn out better. It's not quite an F since:
A) Melo can move to his better position (PF)
B) Rose might be more efficient if he's willing to defer to Anthony
C) We get out of Rolo's and Jose's contracts. Rolo's wasn't bad but it wasn't good either. His production was comparable to his salary. And Jose was obviously worse than his salary. So in total, we freed up 20.4 mil of nonperforming commitments. That said, I see no evidence from his past decisions that Phil can use the money effectively. So this point may be irrelevant.

So I'll give the deal a D.

This move gets a little more points for the logic puzzle aspect. It solves the prisoner's dilemma on a one year model giving many positive outcomes at the end of this year. For instance, we have a low cost low percentage chance that Rose reverts to All Star form resulting in a 3rd or 4th seed in the East. We have a low cost low percentage chance a top star sees two potential all star running mates in NY and signs here giving us a low of the 3rd or 4th if Rose cannot revert and a high of the 1 or 2 seed if they can, with title contention within a year or so. If we flop completely and fail miserably and strike out in free agency, we have a draft pick and 60mm in cap space for next year.

But, Horny pushes for this trade if he sees something in the way Rose is used that he would do different in his offense. Maybe create a little more space for him to play in.

Rose has risk. But he has reversion upside also. Reminds me of the trade for Tracy McGrady or Steve Francis. They had court presence but were shells of their former selves. As an optimizing I think it's probably 65% or even a little higher that he plays all star ball while healthy and a 40% chance he misses more than 10 games. Kind of risky for a playoff run, but even the bad outcomes aren't so bad.

nixluva wrote:

shinmen wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I just saw the news. Are people really defending this trade? Are people really defending Phil? Phil just continue to make dumb mistake after dumb mistake. This is the same old knick, no culture change at all. Phil gave up Lopez for a player who has a name and no game. They traded for a bum. This is said day yo.

1yr left on his deal! This isn't trading for Bargnani and throwing in your lottery pick to sweeten the deal!

Lopez is the lottery pick. Grant is a 1st rd pick. This is like if a team gave us assets for Amare when he was in his last year.

Exactly

JESUS people. You move RoLo in this deal along with Jose and Grant and basically you end up with the same cap space you went into the deal with. You reload the starting lineup with better players!!!

The idea is to bring in a player who isn't as far off from playing acceptable NBA guard as some make it seem. You let Horny work with Rose and see what he can do.

people are allowed to NOT like this move if they so choose. im on the fence about it, and have stated why elsewhere in this thread, but that's neither here nor there. not everyone has to act like you and like every single move that happens, constantly talking out of both sides of your mouth and flip-flopping on every single player acquisition. if things go sour with rose, a year from now you'll be talking about how "rose never really worked with horny" and that he "never fit in". people have their own opinions, you don't need to change everyone's mind.

TheGame wrote:If we had gotten a protected first round pick, then I think this trade would be solid. Even without the pick, I see the logic in that there are more serviceable centers out there than PGs, and I really did not like the idea of adding Rajon Rondo. The spanish kid is coming over this year, and I hear he can really play and should be serviceable. Rose is only 27, so there is a small chance that he can return to be about 90% of what he was, which would still be the best PG the Knicks have had in over a decade. We gave up alot because Lopez made us a tough as a defensive unit, but if we signed a Whiteside-type this summer, then the trade definitely would be an upgrade.

Agreed. I was worried about the prospects of Rondo or Conley. I like Conley a lot but he was going to require the max and we would need him to buy in to significantly less to leave Memphis (extra yr plus tax differential). Conley had huge injury risk. I would have been sweating every game given the implications of an injury to him under a long term max deal. After that slim pickins with Teague having already been moved.

I assume Herandogomez, KP, and a filler can split time at the 5. Perhaps they have plans to give Herandogomez around 15-20 min a game. Would be hard keep Lopez around if they want to do that and run KP at the 5 at times.

nyknickzingis wrote:Nice take from Chicago based media - and some of these guys are actual NBA ballers.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yUhcjuvIf0U

Kendal Gill says that Brandon Jennings worked out with Rose and that he himself saw Rose and that Rose looks in fantastic shape, looks like MVP version. Now I'm not going to expect the MVP version, but this is a far cry from the Bargnani trade. When we traded for Bargs, already had Amare and Tyson. Right now this teams point guard was Jose Calderon and his 7.6 ppg average was lowest in the league for starting PGs. It was a 1 year deal, and we gave up either expiring contracts or players like Jerian who when the team was doing well and healthy couldn't break the rotation. The real loss is Robin Lopez. Well let's see what Knicks do in free agency before we comment on that.

Interesting to me that Jennings is working with Rose. Does Hornacek go for a two PG front and try to bring in Jennings as well?

nyk4ever wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Nice take from Chicago based media - and some of these guys are actual NBA ballers.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yUhcjuvIf0U

Kendal Gill says that Brandon Jennings worked out with Rose and that he himself saw Rose and that Rose looks in fantastic shape, looks like MVP version. Now I'm not going to expect the MVP version, but this is a far cry from the Bargnani trade. When we traded for Bargs, already had Amare and Tyson. Right now this teams point guard was Jose Calderon and his 7.6 ppg average was lowest in the league for starting PGs. It was a 1 year deal, and we gave up either expiring contracts or players like Jerian who when the team was doing well and healthy couldn't break the rotation. The real loss is Robin Lopez. Well let's see what Knicks do in free agency before we comment on that.

Interesting to me that Jennings is working with Rose. Does Hornacek go for a two PG front and try to bring in Jennings as well?

we'd be fast uptop but boy neither one of those guys can shoot. im hoping we don't go in that direction.

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:The best thing to come from this trade would be if it tricks Batum into coming. I would say Durant but he plays with a better and healthy version of Rose, Westbrook.

For all we know there is already an agent promise in place with players x,y or z. Maybe somehow this makes more sense tomorrow? Its not a deal I make, I dont like it but the Bargs trade? This is a gamble for sure but again... Knick fans are the only ones saying this deal is bad

Unless Grant is going to be an up and coming NBA starter....I don't see the gamble. If anything, I think Chicago could've gotten s better deal. Rolo and Grant are replaceable. Jose shouldn't be in the league. Rolo has reached his peak....I don't see the gamble.

Rolo played 82 games last year, is 28, has a cap friendly contract, protects the rim, is a good P&R player and plays center. Losing him for a 1 year rental along with Grant who I regard as still a good prospect is absolutely a setback if you are building a team.

Is that a setback that can be overcome? Certainly.. but don't pretend its nothing. Rose has a few good months of hoops in 4 years to show for. I am very glad we aren't looking for him to carry the team... as a 3rd or 4th option he could very good. He could also be nothing and play 35 games next year. We didn't trade picks or all stars but we did give up assets.

pretty fair however, you are still way overestimated rose, a guy who has been one of the worst players in the league over the last few years.

And, its not like he makes it up with Dee.