fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:The same old points rehashed again and again...

It's like Groundhog day here.

Once again, if Melo had a healthy 1 or 1a(I don't care anymore if Melo is Batman, Robin, or the Joker) this point would all be moot.

Fishmike makes great points with Iverson/Billups being the alpha or 2nd option. Melo never had it here in NY. Amare never panned out.

He needs that other player, so he doesn't have to carry the load.

His running mate last season was JR phucking Smith for chrissakes!

carry the load, he does have other players... he only shoots a lot because that is all he can do.. tha is his flaw...

Having lebron or wade or durant on the same team is not going to make his aim better.. it won't make him a better defender....

why is that so hard to understand?

because the evidence dispells your point man. When Melo was the #2 shot taker he shot 50%. When Billups was still a force they went to the WCF finals.

So yea.. if Lebron or another great player was here his aim WOULD improve and the past has pretty clearly shown this. I think I understand it pretty well... The better Melo's teams have been the better he has been also.

Did you watch Novak his last year here? He shot well next to Lin because he was open. He was terrible before we sent him packing and Novak's defense make's Melo look like Artest it was so laughable. So I see your arguement falling short here sorry. Way short

one year does not dispell anything fish.. not at all... there is more evidence to support what I am saying fish, 10+ years worth.....

but you know what, this is an endless circle.... we are not getting lebron, wade, durant, or westbrook.. therefore carmelo is a waste of 20+ million because he can't win without them..

Honestly that argument can go for any player in the NBA and I don't have to worry about the knicks giving them 20+ mil..

let me ask you this. put lebron with luol deng or granger and you don't think we are a finals team?

You have very little to no evidence to support your argument...

So yea.. if Lebron or another great player was here his aim WOULD improve and the past has pretty clearly shown this. I think I understand it pretty well... The better Melo's teams have been the better he has been also.

13 years according to you he has never had a great team or player... why would anyone think that would change.... I have to now use this argument because you have now simplified this down to him not having lebron or wade or any great player.... which keeps leading me to this question... why bother with him... any player can win with those guys? and not ask for 20 mil

fishmike wrote:TFK.. whos better? Derrick Rose or Melo?

Derrick rose.. not close

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:TFK.. whos better? Derrick Rose or Melo?

Derrick rose.. not close

StarksEwing1 wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:TFK.. whos better? Derrick Rose or Melo?

Derrick rose.. not close

when healthy derrick rose is a beast

StarksEwing1 wrote:

tkf wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:TFK.. whos better? Derrick Rose or Melo?

Derrick rose.. not close

when healthy derrick rose is a beast

I like derrick rose the player more than I do rose the PG.. if he ever learns how to play PG more like a "PG".. then he will be a close second to lebron.... I think he has that much talent.. when healthy he is a savage beast...LOL

I agree. You are right he doesnt play like a true point guard but its ok because he has so much talent that he doenst need to be the traditional pg

Maybe not now, but to take that next step, maybe... just think if he did.... yikes.. scary.... he can get by now because of his raw talent and ability, but we all know, that takes you but so far..... I still would take him now.. as is.. haha

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:I don't know if you guys have figured it out or not. But every team that has won a championship has had a player that is one or two option shoot 50% or over. The Knicks currently do not have that Chandler is not a 2nd option. Melo would really benefit from a big that shoots 50% and is the second option or first. Detroit might have been the only team in recent years to win a championship without a 50% shooter of course discount Ben Wallace, but their defense was lock tight. Lakers had Shaq with Kobe. Miami Wade, Shaq first championship. LeBron, Wade and Bosh. Spurs had Duncan, Parker, Robinson. Bulls had Jordan and Pippen. You want to go back to the old Lakers Jabbar, Magic. Sixers had Moses and Dr. J. Celtics McHale and Bird.

I know Amare is suppose to be that guy but he is done, adding Brags did nothing to enhance the 50% FG mark. They badly need a first or second option shooting 50%+.

its plain as day. I have said it since the get go. I hoped Amare would be that guy but he's done. Ive never viewed Melo as a #1, always a #2. Too many holes in his game, but sitting here and saying Melo is just another Al Harrington or Tim Thomas but he's somehow allowed to shoot it 25 times a night so his scoring average is bloated is simply stupid.

Melo is an all star player. Last year he proved beyond any reasonable doubt that he's a top 10 player in this league. Now he's probably in the 8-10 range but fine. He's still top talent with a rare skill set thats proven its value. The Knicks werent the only team ready to break the bank for him.

We need more. This era may very end with nothing but what the Nuggs did with him for 7 years.. a bunch of one and dones and maybe that one good streak. Hopefully we get lucky and are able to land another bigtime player.

fine fish, but he doesn't think that and doesn't play that way and doesn't want to get paid that way... so what is the point? A player has to be willing to accept and acknowledge that.. he isn't... and honestly there are other players who would be better #2's for a lot less...

You killing him for not acknowledging that he should take a smaller role, backseat, be a #2 etc.. and your just wrong, because he's never played with anyone better then him, except maybe that year in Denver and te Olympics, and during those times yes, playing with better talent absolutely DID make Melo shoot straight. So you want to spread MElo's $20 mill around for Gallo/Al Jefferson? Fine... we become a lottery team.

Evidence? Facts? Stick with them. Melo's teams always win despite the fact that he's just Lee Nailon and allowed to shoot it 30x a game. When Melo has played along superior or equal talent his shooting %s drastically improve.

So your thought process is because you assume we cant add another high caliber player it makes more sense to trade him for inferior players because... ????

Melo's got holes in his game. He's not a guy I would choose to build around for sure but hes still a good player and a top ten player. If there was a doubt he proved it beyond last year.

Knixkik wrote:Very few players in the league could lead the Knicks to a 54 win season with chandler and JR are their next best players. Melo does need to step up in the playoffs but he has absolutely proven to be a star in this league. We will see if he can continue to improve. This is a big year as he should have a little more help with Bargnani.

YOU ARE forgetting the great start that guys like jason kidd had, JR had a career year, that helped the knicks get to 54 wins... this myth that carmelo dragged the knicks to 54 wins is hilarious...

And BTW chandler does have a ring, starting at center for DAllas...difference is, their franchise player is flat out better than ours... hands down..

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:I don't know if you guys have figured it out or not. But every team that has won a championship has had a player that is one or two option shoot 50% or over. The Knicks currently do not have that Chandler is not a 2nd option. Melo would really benefit from a big that shoots 50% and is the second option or first. Detroit might have been the only team in recent years to win a championship without a 50% shooter of course discount Ben Wallace, but their defense was lock tight. Lakers had Shaq with Kobe. Miami Wade, Shaq first championship. LeBron, Wade and Bosh. Spurs had Duncan, Parker, Robinson. Bulls had Jordan and Pippen. You want to go back to the old Lakers Jabbar, Magic. Sixers had Moses and Dr. J. Celtics McHale and Bird.

I know Amare is suppose to be that guy but he is done, adding Brags did nothing to enhance the 50% FG mark. They badly need a first or second option shooting 50%+.

its plain as day. I have said it since the get go. I hoped Amare would be that guy but he's done. Ive never viewed Melo as a #1, always a #2. Too many holes in his game, but sitting here and saying Melo is just another Al Harrington or Tim Thomas but he's somehow allowed to shoot it 25 times a night so his scoring average is bloated is simply stupid.

Melo is an all star player. Last year he proved beyond any reasonable doubt that he's a top 10 player in this league. Now he's probably in the 8-10 range but fine. He's still top talent with a rare skill set thats proven its value. The Knicks werent the only team ready to break the bank for him.

We need more. This era may very end with nothing but what the Nuggs did with him for 7 years.. a bunch of one and dones and maybe that one good streak. Hopefully we get lucky and are able to land another bigtime player.

fine fish, but he doesn't think that and doesn't play that way and doesn't want to get paid that way... so what is the point? A player has to be willing to accept and acknowledge that.. he isn't... and honestly there are other players who would be better #2's for a lot less...

your wrong. He has acknowledged that. One year he was a with a player better than him, that was with Iverson who was an MVP and went to the finals. That year Melo shot just under 50%. What other year did he play with a player who was better than he was?

You killing him for not acknowledging that he should take a smaller role, backseat, be a #2 etc.. and your just wrong, because he's never played with anyone better then him, except maybe that year in Denver and te Olympics, and during those times yes, playing with better talent absolutely DID make Melo shoot straight. So you want to spread MElo's $20 mill around for Gallo/Al Jefferson? Fine... we become a lottery team.

Evidence? Facts? Stick with them. Melo's teams always win despite the fact that he's just Lee Nailon and allowed to shoot it 30x a game. When Melo has played along superior or equal talent his shooting %s drastically improve.

So your thought process is because you assume we cant add another high caliber player it makes more sense to trade him for inferior players because... ????

Melo's got holes in his game. He's not a guy I would choose to build around for sure but hes still a good player and a top ten player. If there was a doubt he proved it beyond last year.

What other year did he play with a player who was better than he was?

Billups, who finished 6th in MVP voting that year and he not only was in the finals but was finals mvp..

I don't see where carmelo has acknowledged anything.. dude is still acting like he wants to be #1 dog, he is even asking to be the highest paid player in the game..

because he's never played with anyone better then him, except maybe that year in Denver and te Olympics, and during those times yes, playing with better talent absolutely DID make Melo shoot straight. So you want to spread MElo's $20 mill around for Gallo/Al Jefferson? Fine... we become a lottery team.

denver did fine spreading that money around fish, they have 57 wins.. again, you are posting emotional here.. either get me the olympic team, a 28 year old iverson, or a prime billups.. other than that, all I hear are excuses... since denver traded carmelo they have had a better record than us. you do understand that right?

Melo's got holes in his game. He's not a guy I would choose to build around for sure but hes still a good player and a top ten player. If there was a doubt he proved it beyond last year.

other than this site, there aren't many who thinks he is a top 10 player... ESPN doesn't think so... and I think they were generous with 15.. with that said, can't pay anyone 20mil with all of those flaws.. as soon as you start talking he needs another star... please don't follow it up with, he deserves 20 mil sorry, that doesn't make sense to me at all..

So your thought process is because you assume we cant add another high caliber player it makes more sense to trade him for inferior players because... ????

inferior in your eyes... but no my thought process is not to pay 29 mil to a clown is is not worth 29 mil... simple... and plain.... you keep talking inferior players, but carmelo has yet to beat such guys.. guys you consider inferior still accomplish the same thing... playoffs and first round exits.. except you tend to have more flexibility to get better with lesser salaries and moveable pieces...

your plan of keeping him, paying him, and complaining about not having iverson or billups is better? really?

Vmart wrote:I liked what Melo did last night vs Bucks 9 rebounds and 7 assists. I like that if he can make this second nature and up his shooting to 50% he will be MVP.

Did you like how he played on defense, I thought he was pretty bad..

fishmike wrote:TFK... Im not complaining about anything. Just calling it like I see it. If you cant acknowledge the Melo had a great year last year and while guys were coming and going left and right he was the motor that drove the car to 50+ wins you are utterly and totally lost and blind. I remember when the Knicks were playing .300 ball, Isiah was being run out of town and Marbury was getting booed every play and Holfresh thread after thread would sit here and write how good Isiah and Marbs were, great players, will turn it around etc... it was lunacy. Your the exact same except the other way. Open your eyes dude. Melo has holes in his game but he's a top 10 player.

Yea.. it was hot streaks by Kidd and Kurt Thomas that won the 50+, not the guy who was scoring 30 a night, cause anyone can do that. Just give Tim Thomas 30 shots a game and he wins a scoring title also. Thank god for you Tyson laid down like a girl against Hibbert and JR missed every shot because if they play like anything besides total garbage Knicks are playing the Heat in the ECF and that would have been impossible to stomach for you. Get over it dude. Time to move on.

Melo's not getting traded for junk so MSG can be in the lottery for another 10 years. Its not happening. Look for other options. Let go. Its time. Hugs.

You gotta let go of your Melo hate. The trade is over. Its not your fault TFK. Its not...

+1 Leading Candidate for Post of the New Young Season
Fish, if nothing else, tkf is the most consistent poster on this board.

And he will not answer to any of your alternate outcomes because "they're not worth answering". Unstomachable indeed.