MSG3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:2nd in the east is like being 5th in the west. We've had the 9th easiest schedule out of 30 teams.
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerrankings/_/page/2/sort/sos
Do you want to have a top east team or a top NBA team?

I want to have a team that can get to the finals. We have to go through the East for that. We've beaten one of the best in the West (San Antonio) twice, once with our MVP having a bad shooting night and once without our starting PG. We've also beaten the defending champs twice, both blowouts and once without Melo. I like our chances in a 7 game series against Miami, Boston and Chicago....if we have to deal with the West in June I'll be overjoyed.

I know there's a lot of room for improvement, particularly on defense. But the only losses that have really worried me are the last 2 to Chicago.

Many of our other losses have been not at full strength, off of back to backs, etc. Take a look at our losses. The only really bad team we've lost to is the Kings.

agree. And despite having a lot of injures we are 10-7 against western conference teams. It's always something though.

fishmike wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NUPE wrote:What in the hell is going on here. I know I say TKF and dk7th are the same person from time to time but it's just in jest. You guys are taking this way too far.

i guarantee you that roughly 20% of the fanbase as a whole feels the way i do about the knicks. included are tkf fishmike 3g4g.

why is it so hard to understand that there are a significant number of people who simply see matters differently from the majority?

I can't believe this threat is still going. TK and a few others have been baited mercilessly of late and shouldn't have to constantly have to defend their views. Its called and opinion for a reason and people (adults) should be MATURE enough to agree to disagree. Why do people seem so desperate to validate their own opinions.

And the "gotcha" posts or the "I owned him" posts are so damn childish I'm starting to think one of the webmasters here should start a "Ultimateknicks" youth section for those under 21 and those who act like they are under 21. Then maybe we can go back to having more civil discussions and fewer threads full of disrespect and outrage.

there has never been a more polarizing player on this forum than Melo. If your his fanboy it seems he is jesus christ, a natural leader, an MVP and any past failure is the result of poor teammates, poor coaching, unfair playoff matchups... its incredible it really is. All I have ever said is we broke up a good young team to bring this guy here and what has that yielded? But Im the leader of the hate, the somber six, etc etc

There is no discussing Melo here. Might as well try to open a discussion of dinosaur bones with creationsit christians or whether or not Mohammed was really the prophet with a group of muslims. You can expect the same level of discussion you get here with Melo.

So now Jesus Christ enters this thread??WTF Thats way outta line and fish you should be banned for that. After such a STUPID REMARK I will not respond to this thread. Fish THAT WAS JUST SO DAMN WRONG.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:2nd in the east is like being 5th in the west. We've had the 9th easiest schedule out of 30 teams.
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerrankings/_/page/2/sort/sos
Do you want to have a top east team or a top NBA team?

Give it a break Bonn, we're in uncharted waters. We haven't been this good and relevant in a while. Put down the analysis and glass half full outlook for a minute at least, you'll feel better.

Were you content with a .649 team in the '90s?

Exactly, that's the point Bonn. It's been how long, since we've even been in a position to even sniff the 90s. You would think the team is at .500 or below with some of the comments thrown around here. Before the season even began, who here wouldn't sign up for the Atlantic Division lead with a 1/2 game behind the 1st seed in the East with nearly 50% of the season done?

To answer your question, yes I was content with an over .600 in the 90s. They always had a chance to do something in the playoffs, to advance, to give fans long lasting memories, to battle the Jordans, the Millers, the Hardaways and Mournings, to come oh so close vs Hakeem, and to be the Cinderella underdog team to give it to the East and give it their all against the dominant Duncan and Robinsons.

Yes, I'm content with a Knicks team that can compete. All you can ask as a fan.

I'd be ecstatic with a Championship contending team. We shall see.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Hersports85 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:2nd in the east is like being 5th in the west. We've had the 9th easiest schedule out of 30 teams.
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerrankings/_/page/2/sort/sos
Do you want to have a top east team or a top NBA team?

I want to have a team that can get to the finals. We have to go through the East for that. We've beaten one of the best in the West (San Antonio) twice, once with our MVP having a bad shooting night and once without our starting PG. We've also beaten the defending champs twice, both blowouts and once without Melo. I like our chances in a 7 game series against Miami, Boston and Chicago....if we have to deal with the West in June I'll be overjoyed.

I know there's a lot of room for improvement, particularly on defense. But the only losses that have really worried me are the last 2 to Chicago.

Many of our other losses have been not at full strength, off of back to backs, etc. Take a look at our losses. The only really bad team we've lost to is the Kings.

agree. And despite having a lot of injures we are 10-7 against western conference teams. It's always something though.

This is an old team that probably will always deal with injuries. If what you want is a good team, say the Atlanta Hawks of the past decade or maybe the 2001 76ers, this team is perfect. I can respect that desire although I believe that the only valid reason to reject rebuilding and go with old guys with a 2 year time-table is to win a championship.

I think you make a good point about how this team was constructed. Time will tell whether we did the right thing by adding a lot of veteran depth to surround the stars and younger guys. Personally, I think it was smart. Grunwald saw that he had a short window so he overpaid in years and dollars for some smart vets to come and add some experience and toughness to a roster him and Woody thought could compete with teams in the East. The other option was to keep tinkering with the roster that had already been changing constantly.

I do however strongly disagree that this team is anything like the Hawks or 6ers teams you mentioned. Much better offensively and they've demonstrated the ability to play great defense.

Hersports85 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:2nd in the east is like being 5th in the west. We've had the 9th easiest schedule out of 30 teams.
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerrankings/_/page/2/sort/sos
Do you want to have a top east team or a top NBA team?

Give it a break Bonn, we're in uncharted waters. We haven't been this good and relevant in a while. Put down the analysis and glass half full outlook for a minute at least, you'll feel better.

Were you content with a .649 team in the '90s?

Exactly, that's the point Bonn. It's been how long, since we've even been in a position to even sniff the 90s. You would think the team is at .500 or below with some of the comments thrown around here. Before the season even began, who here wouldn't sign up for the Atlantic Division lead with a 1/2 game behind the 1st seed in the East with nearly 50% of the season done?

To answer your question, yes I was content with an over .600 in the 90s. They always had a chance to do something in the playoffs, to advance, to give fans long lasting memories, to battle the Jordans, the Millers, the Hardaways and Mournings, to come oh so close vs Hakeem, and to be the Cinderella underdog team to give it to the East and give it their all against the dominant Duncan and Robinsons.

Yes, I'm content with a Knicks team that can compete. All you can ask as a fan.

I'd be ecstatic with a Championship contending team. We shall see.

That's all that really matters, competing in the playoffs. Truth is we're stilling building chemistry, trying to turn the team into a defensive minded team, dealing with injuries and yet we're still the 2nd in the East. Why is everyone complaining???? That's what I don't get. I understand it's things we can be critical of and players don't always make the best decisions but guys are acting as if we're 5th or 6th in the east and don't see that players are trying to improve their game.

I could be wrong, and have no problem admitting it ... but Jan/Feb gives us time to practice the little things, gives us something to build on and get guys healthy .. but I'm willing to bet that by time March is here, the team is clicking and we make a good push in the playoffs.

Tyson and Kidd (2 key components to our success) has been here before and know when it's time to turn it up. Do you think they're too concerned about the reg. season? It's not Tyson is a shell of himself from last year, we know Tyson can be aggressive when needed, he's pacing himself though. We also seen Kidd play his heart out in games and others hang back .. these guys will be okay.

The keys for the next 2 months is to
1. maintain a high seed
2. get guys healthy
3. build chemistry
4. improve on defense
5. develop some money offense plays.

Exactly. Personally, I think we have enough vets in the lockerroom and playing on the floor, that the mindset is to just get through the season intact and with homecourt advantage. The key as always is to avoid the Miami Heat as long as possible. Guys talking about the West, oh we'd be a 5th seed this and that. Comedy. Last time I checked Miami nearly swept OKC 4-1 in the finals last year. Championship still runs through South Beach, until proven otherwise.

BRIGGS wrote:Im not a believer that Carmelo Anthony wouldve went to the Nets. That was leverage he used on Dolan. If the Knicks just explained to Carmelo that we want to give you every dime--but we also want you to win a championship--like Lebron--its bets that we sign you outright following the season. If we did that-we would be a legit championship contender. Forget Miami for one minute--we have no chance no chance as composed to even compete with the Bulls and when they get Derrick Rose either will the Heat. We needed to keep Gallo especially giving us that third special gun and guys like Chandelr Mosgov draft picks--this team couldve been awesome. It still is a GOOD team and its capable of doing some very good things but we couldve buily a dynasty team if patient.

I strongly disagree.

None of the guys you listed are dynasty material.

MSG3 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:It really didn't have to come to this. Knicks had a chance to stay somewhat young but botched up the whole Lin situation. The domino effect of losing Lin caused the Knicks some young bigs which resulted in signing old and injured players. Denver definitely fleeced the Knicks but the basketball gods gave the Knicks a 2nd chance and Super Owner James Dolan ****ed it up.

I always agreed that it was not wise to let Lin go, but what young bigs did it cost us? Jorts? Dude got cut by Houston and can't crack a rotation in Miami that is desperate for rebounding.

Jorts and JJ4 (Jerome Jordan). They showed promise here. Houston cut both because they had a slew of PFs in that team.

BRIGGS wrote:Im not a believer that Carmelo Anthony wouldve went to the Nets. That was leverage he used on Dolan. If the Knicks just explained to Carmelo that we want to give you every dime--but we also want you to win a championship--like Lebron--its bets that we sign you outright following the season. If we did that-we would be a legit championship contender. Forget Miami for one minute--we have no chance no chance as composed to even compete with the Bulls and when they get Derrick Rose either will the Heat. We needed to keep Gallo especially giving us that third special gun and guys like Chandelr Mosgov draft picks--this team couldve been awesome. It still is a GOOD team and its capable of doing some very good things but we couldve buily a dynasty team if patient.

Here is the problem with your argument. If he didn't sign with the Nets, he probably would have stayed in Denver. Melo situation was different than all other All-Star or Superstar free agents. His contract expired during a the time of a LOCK OUT. Why do we keep ignoring this? With the unknown approaching, and Melo being involved in several union talks, he believed along with several EXECS and FINANCIAL ANALYST that the best financial move was to secure a contract with whatever team, Knicks was his first choice, before the end of the season. It's that simple. That is the facts despite what we may want to believe. I read outside experts opinions that have stated he made the right business move ... because above everything, basketball is a business.

With that said, I don't think we have a dynasty with Gallo, Melo and Wilson Chandler ... not even going to speak on Moz, not worth it. Neither is Jorts worth discussing.

I hate we gave Lin up for nothing, I really do. But I also like the pieces we have and think a lot of people will be proven wrong come playoff time if we're able to get healthy.

Uptown wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Im not a believer that Carmelo Anthony wouldve went to the Nets. That was leverage he used on Dolan. If the Knicks just explained to Carmelo that we want to give you every dime--but we also want you to win a championship--like Lebron--its bets that we sign you outright following the season. If we did that-we would be a legit championship contender. Forget Miami for one minute--we have no chance no chance as composed to even compete with the Bulls and when they get Derrick Rose either will the Heat. We needed to keep Gallo especially giving us that third special gun and guys like Chandelr Mosgov draft picks--this team couldve been awesome. It still is a GOOD team and its capable of doing some very good things but we couldve buily a dynasty team if patient.

You are asking Melo to take a pay cut. If thats the case, the same rule of thumb applies to Lin. Why couldn't managemnet explain to Lin that we want to give you every dime we could under the new CBA rules but we also want to build a championship team with you, Melo, Stat, Chandler, Kidd etc? Why couldn't Lin take less money to stay here? Instead he went for the money just Melo and every other athlete has done before them and will continue to do after them.

lin wasn't costing the knicks picks and players and a chance to get better... lin just cost the knicks tax money.. dolan has plenty of it and if his plan was to win, then you pay the price as long as it doesn't hurt your team... we are going to pay the tax anyway, how would signing lin hurt the team? or keep it from getting better?