Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Ha...You complain when Dolan spends money to get players to come here and complain when he doesn't spend 50 mil plus on a player with 35 NBA games under his belt, on his second knee surgery in as many years....

Who is this ambiguous "you"? I want Dolan to clear cap space for year 3 so that we don't have so many overpaid 40 year olds. Luxury tax with Lin is a non-issue unless Dolan foolishly keeps this exact roster intact through year 3.

He is avoiding it by not matching that ridiculous contract...

gunsnewing wrote:That contract will be looked at as a bargain as Lin makes the allstar team 3yrs in a row and then gets a new 5yr max contract at 100mil and earns every penny of it as a 26yr pg in his prime

Knicks have cap space when he becomes a free agent again.

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.

Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).

According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.

Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.

His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.

Your confusing what players are actually worth, with what players actually seem to get- in a world where Jameer Nelson can stink it up and still sign a 3 year deal paying $8mil per year, trust me $4mil for Felton is a bargain! You won't get a cheaper starting caliber point guard for that amount. Pretty much the same as our old favourite Chris Duhon!

I am not a bit Felton fan but that contract was far from over paying.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.

Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).

According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.

Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.

His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.

Your confusing what players are actually worth, with what players actually seem to get- in a world where Jameer Nelson can stink it up and still sign a 3 year deal paying $8mil per year, trust me $4mil for Felton is a bargain! You won't get a cheaper starting caliber point guard for that amount. Pretty much the same as our old favourite Chris Duhon!

I am not a bit Felton fan but that contract was far from over paying.

Overpaying per year? Maybe slightly - I think there are guys on the league min who can give close to what he does. But it's definitely overpaying in total pay - $18 mil is a ton of money to throw at a guy who is average to below average in all phases of the game.

That is arguable (below average). People were crying when he left and stating how great he was - did he get this bad in one year?

Who in the league is at his level making less? Is Jameer Nelson that good?

Was Lin worth 25 million + tax for a guy who played 25 games last year and had a miserable shooting pct when it counted? Who Miami exposed as a ...

I would have paid for Lin and wanted him back but it aint my money.

Felton at 4 per is a good deal. I think he will be good for team chemistry, plays defense and can pass the ball. He just needs to not shoot.

earthmansurfer wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.

Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).

According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.

Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.

His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.

Your confusing what players are actually worth, with what players actually seem to get- in a world where Jameer Nelson can stink it up and still sign a 3 year deal paying $8mil per year, trust me $4mil for Felton is a bargain! You won't get a cheaper starting caliber point guard for that amount. Pretty much the same as our old favourite Chris Duhon!

I am not a bit Felton fan but that contract was far from over paying.

Overpaying per year? Maybe slightly - I think there are guys on the league min who can give close to what he does. But it's definitely overpaying in total pay - $18 mil is a ton of money to throw at a guy who is average to below average in all phases of the game.

That is arguable (below average). People were crying when he left and stating how great he was - did he get this bad in one year?

Who in the league is at his level making less? Is Jameer Nelson that good?

Was Lin worth 25 million + tax for a guy who played 25 games last year and had a miserable shooting pct when it counted? Who Miami exposed as a ...

I would have paid for Lin and wanted him back but it aint my money.

Felton at 4 per is a good deal. I think he will be good for team chemistry, plays defense and can pass the ball. He just needs to not shoot.

I think the point regarding letting Lin walk is the timing being incredibly bad. I mean we are pretty close to contending for a championship. To get past Miami and then OKC/LA, you are going to need all you can to have a chance. Letting Lin walk in this context makes no sense, especially since it is next to impossible to add talent with the new CBA when you are over the salary cap. Keeping Lin could have been the difference. You pay that tax and go all out. 90% probably won't cut it.

I think and up and coming player like Lin can make the difference and it is worth the risk. Getting a bunch of guys, albeit very good players still, who are near retirement, is probably not in itself, going to put us over the hump, not now anyways. We are one injury away from a nightmare of a season. Consider that and consider Stats health the last two years, not to mention Melo's last year.

While I wanted Lin back badly, he has not proven by any means that he is the difference maker that could have put us over the hump. He had a great stretch against horrible competition and played poorly against winning teams. Could he have gotten better and overcame this? Maybe. But what if he did not pan out? Got injured? What then?

It was a risk and they chose not to risk it. I wish they did risk it.

Reading the articles and financial blogs back then, most of them thought it was a bad idea to bring him back and none of them thought that Dolan had the discipline to refrain. His discipline in the Melo trade was awful.

mrKnickShot wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.

Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).

According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.

Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.

His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.

Your confusing what players are actually worth, with what players actually seem to get- in a world where Jameer Nelson can stink it up and still sign a 3 year deal paying $8mil per year, trust me $4mil for Felton is a bargain! You won't get a cheaper starting caliber point guard for that amount. Pretty much the same as our old favourite Chris Duhon!

I am not a bit Felton fan but that contract was far from over paying.

Overpaying per year? Maybe slightly - I think there are guys on the league min who can give close to what he does. But it's definitely overpaying in total pay - $18 mil is a ton of money to throw at a guy who is average to below average in all phases of the game.

That is arguable (below average). People were crying when he left and stating how great he was - did he get this bad in one year?

Who in the league is at his level making less? Is Jameer Nelson that good?

Was Lin worth 25 million + tax for a guy who played 25 games last year and had a miserable shooting pct when it counted? Who Miami exposed as a ...

I would have paid for Lin and wanted him back but it aint my money.

Felton at 4 per is a good deal. I think he will be good for team chemistry, plays defense and can pass the ball. He just needs to not shoot.

I think the point regarding letting Lin walk is the timing being incredibly bad. I mean we are pretty close to contending for a championship. To get past Miami and then OKC/LA, you are going to need all you can to have a chance. Letting Lin walk in this context makes no sense, especially since it is next to impossible to add talent with the new CBA when you are over the salary cap. Keeping Lin could have been the difference. You pay that tax and go all out. 90% probably won't cut it.

I think and up and coming player like Lin can make the difference and it is worth the risk. Getting a bunch of guys, albeit very good players still, who are near retirement, is probably not in itself, going to put us over the hump, not now anyways. We are one injury away from a nightmare of a season. Consider that and consider Stats health the last two years, not to mention Melo's last year.

While I wanted Lin back badly, he has not proven by any means that he is the difference maker that could have put us over the hump. He had a great stretch against horrible competition and played poorly against winning teams. Could he have gotten better and overcame this? Maybe. But what if he did not pan out? Got injured? What then?

It was a risk and they chose not to risk it. I wish they did risk it.

Reading the articles and financial blogs back then, most of them thought it was a bad idea to bring him back and none of them thought that Dolan had the discipline to refrain. His discipline in the Melo trade was awful.

earthmansurfer wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.

Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).

According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.

Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.

His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.

Your confusing what players are actually worth, with what players actually seem to get- in a world where Jameer Nelson can stink it up and still sign a 3 year deal paying $8mil per year, trust me $4mil for Felton is a bargain! You won't get a cheaper starting caliber point guard for that amount. Pretty much the same as our old favourite Chris Duhon!

I am not a bit Felton fan but that contract was far from over paying.

Overpaying per year? Maybe slightly - I think there are guys on the league min who can give close to what he does. But it's definitely overpaying in total pay - $18 mil is a ton of money to throw at a guy who is average to below average in all phases of the game.

That is arguable (below average). People were crying when he left and stating how great he was - did he get this bad in one year?

Who in the league is at his level making less? Is Jameer Nelson that good?

Was Lin worth 25 million + tax for a guy who played 25 games last year and had a miserable shooting pct when it counted? Who Miami exposed as a ...

I would have paid for Lin and wanted him back but it aint my money.

Felton at 4 per is a good deal. I think he will be good for team chemistry, plays defense and can pass the ball. He just needs to not shoot.

I think the point regarding letting Lin walk is the timing being incredibly bad. I mean we are pretty close to contending for a championship. To get past Miami and then OKC/LA, you are going to need all you can to have a chance. Letting Lin walk in this context makes no sense, especially since it is next to impossible to add talent with the new CBA when you are over the salary cap. Keeping Lin could have been the difference. You pay that tax and go all out. 90% probably won't cut it.

I think and up and coming player like Lin can make the difference and it is worth the risk. Getting a bunch of guys, albeit very good players still, who are near retirement, is probably not in itself, going to put us over the hump, not now anyways. We are one injury away from a nightmare of a season. Consider that and consider Stats health the last two years, not to mention Melo's last year.

yea, I thought we were going all in? why are we worrying about year 3? if this team doesn't get it done this year or next year, time to blow it up anyway.. start shipping out contracts after year 2....

- Lin helped Knicks making playoff, 179K (edit: NBA playoff pool for Knicks)
- Two playoff games, attendance: 19,763 x 2 = 39,526 @ $250 (conservative estimation of average price)
MSG raked in 9.8 million for Game 3+4
- MSG shops Linsanity jersey sales ??k
- MSG stocks up 12% during Linsanity, Feb 4-Feb 17, 100 mils for Dolan as majority share (conservative estimation).

Here is something else to consider:
- Knicks FO knew the extent of Lin's injury but didnt reveal until AFTER playoff ticket were mostly sold. With advance of medical technology, any decent hospital could easily diagosed a meniscus tear.
- They annouced, 'Knicks will match any offer up to a billion dollar when sales of 2012-2013 season tickets were in full swing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For all the money he made from above, Dolan only dished out $762,000.

Was Lin worth 25 million + tax for a guy who played 25 games last year and had a miserable shooting pct when it counted? Who Miami exposed as a ...

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

VCoug wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.

Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).

According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.

Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.

His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.

Your confusing what players are actually worth, with what players actually seem to get- in a world where Jameer Nelson can stink it up and still sign a 3 year deal paying $8mil per year, trust me $4mil for Felton is a bargain! You won't get a cheaper starting caliber point guard for that amount. Pretty much the same as our old favourite Chris Duhon!

I am not a bit Felton fan but that contract was far from over paying.

Overpaying per year? Maybe slightly - I think there are guys on the league min who can give close to what he does. But it's definitely overpaying in total pay - $18 mil is a ton of money to throw at a guy who is average to below average in all phases of the game.

That is arguable (below average). People were crying when he left and stating how great he was - did he get this bad in one year?

Who in the league is at his level making less? Is Jameer Nelson that good?

Was Lin worth 25 million + tax for a guy who played 25 games last year and had a miserable shooting pct when it counted? Who Miami exposed as a ...

I would have paid for Lin and wanted him back but it aint my money.

Felton at 4 per is a good deal. I think he will be good for team chemistry, plays defense and can pass the ball. He just needs to not shoot.

I think the point regarding letting Lin walk is the timing being incredibly bad. I mean we are pretty close to contending for a championship. To get past Miami and then OKC/LA, you are going to need all you can to have a chance. Letting Lin walk in this context makes no sense, especially since it is next to impossible to add talent with the new CBA when you are over the salary cap. Keeping Lin could have been the difference. You pay that tax and go all out. 90% probably won't cut it.

I think and up and coming player like Lin can make the difference and it is worth the risk. Getting a bunch of guys, albeit very good players still, who are near retirement, is probably not in itself, going to put us over the hump, not now anyways. We are one injury away from a nightmare of a season. Consider that and consider Stats health the last two years, not to mention Melo's last year.

While I wanted Lin back badly, he has not proven by any means that he is the difference maker that could have put us over the hump. He had a great stretch against horrible competition and played poorly against winning teams. Could he have gotten better and overcame this? Maybe. But what if he did not pan out? Got injured? What then?

It was a risk and they chose not to risk it. I wish they did risk it.

Reading the articles and financial blogs back then, most of them thought it was a bad idea to bring him back and none of them thought that Dolan had the discipline to refrain. His discipline in the Melo trade was awful.

Why do you wish they did risk it? Every time I read your interpretation of Lin's season (as in the bold above) it doesn't sound like you wish the Knicks had risked it.

I loved that he was created here in NY. I loved the excitement during Linsanity even though they were playing the bottom feeders.

I am not sold that he would be a very good player going forward but it ain't my money and if he was going to be a very good player, I would have loved to see him do it here.

I am not a big Felton fan but I think that Lin + Felton would have made me feel a bit more comfortable (not Lin + Kidd). This way, we would have had a viable backup if Lin were to fail.