nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is just ridiculous. ONLY MONTHS ago some of these same players we have now were in the #2 scoring team and #5 most efficient offense in the league, when we had Felton! It dipped a bit when we made the trade and the team ended the season at #7 in Offensive efficiency. For most of D'Antoni's career his teams have been at or near the top of the league in offense. It's the one thing that you just can't fault him for in terms of his acumen as a coach. You can ding him for D, but let's not make up crap when it comes to his offensive record. This is the ONLY Season in the last 8 years where he's been in the lower half of the league offensively.

2011-12 with TD, Shump, Bibby    - #17 in scoring, #24 in Offensive Efficiency
2010-11 with Felton, TD, CB      - #2  in scoring, #5  in Off. Eff.
2009-10 with Duhon, TD, Hughes   - #10 in scoring, #17 in Off. Eff.
2008-09 with Duhon, Nate, Hughes - #4  in scoring, #17 in Off. Eff.
2007-08 with Nash                - #3  in scoring, #2  in Off. Eff.
2006-07 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #1  in Off. Eff.
2005-06 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #2  in Off. Eff.
2004-05 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #1  in Off. Eff.

so basically, he averages 15.75 out of 30 teams in offensive efficiency without nash. next coach, please.

Again you are expressing your ignorance of the truth. Would you consider Duhon a decent NBA PG? Dude was never really a good PG and even tho he raised his level of play it wasn't enough to overcome his low talent level. As soon as Felton got the hang of the offense this team was up in the range of his teams run by Nash in terms of Efficiency and scoring. RIGHT NEAR THE TOP OF THE LEAGUE!!! SO it wasn't just Nash. Yes Nash was the perfect man for this system, but MDA showed last year that even a guy like Felton could produce results. With Felton running the show this team was a top offensive team. TD isn't even at Duhon level and the evidence shows. We can't rely on Shump to handle such a tough role right off the bat when he should be brought along more slowly. Most guards need years to learn the NBA game at a high level. Shump isn't even a pure PG and he's doing the best he can under a lot of pressure. This coach needs to be allowed to coach this season to see if he can get this team to fight thru this slump.

that is because

David Lee
Al Harrington
Wilson Chandler

were playing the PF and Center, and thus the mismatches on both ends.

Especially when David Lee played point/forward, i mean point/center too

that is one of the philosophies of SSOL, that is where the penetration comes in, with spacing, and 3 point shooting...

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:I can't fault D'Antoni at all here. The guy was a point guard when he played. He coaches through the point guard. Larry Brown does too.

You don't hire D'Antoni and then bastardize the position like this.

D'Antoni needs to be let go if the Knicks don't plan on securing an NBA worthy point guard. This is best for both parties.

But I see people here blasting the guy like he's a terrible coach. It's not the case that he's a bad coach, it's just that you gave him something he doesn't know how to work with. Who is to fault for that?

FoeDiddy wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is just ridiculous. ONLY MONTHS ago some of these same players we have now were in the #2 scoring team and #5 most efficient offense in the league, when we had Felton! It dipped a bit when we made the trade and the team ended the season at #7 in Offensive efficiency. For most of D'Antoni's career his teams have been at or near the top of the league in offense. It's the one thing that you just can't fault him for in terms of his acumen as a coach. You can ding him for D, but let's not make up crap when it comes to his offensive record. This is the ONLY Season in the last 8 years where he's been in the lower half of the league offensively.

2011-12 with TD, Shump, Bibby    - #17 in scoring, #24 in Offensive Efficiency
2010-11 with Felton, TD, CB      - #2  in scoring, #5  in Off. Eff.
2009-10 with Duhon, TD, Hughes   - #10 in scoring, #17 in Off. Eff.
2008-09 with Duhon, Nate, Hughes - #4  in scoring, #17 in Off. Eff.
2007-08 with Nash                - #3  in scoring, #2  in Off. Eff.
2006-07 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #1  in Off. Eff.
2005-06 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #2  in Off. Eff.
2004-05 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #1  in Off. Eff.

so basically, he averages 15.75 out of 30 teams in offensive efficiency without nash. next coach, please.

2010-11 with Felton, TD, CB - #2 in scoring, #5 in Off. Eff.

Miss that one?

yup, i did the average. ironically, it doesn't include d'antoni's horror show in denver to start his career with van exel and chauncey.

People see ONLY what they want to see. You can also conclude he average 2.1 in Offensive Efficiency when he has had a PG who is starting quality or higher. Duhon is pathetic and TD is third string scrub.

How about the wins? where are those stats? How about the fundamentals defensively? How about the effort?

I didn't provide these numbers, I was commenting on how people use tunnel vision when interpreting statistics. If you look up wins during Nash/Felton years it probably won't fit your thesis either.... Just a guess.

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:D'Antoni took a lot of money to come here, but he also took a hit for this team and saw them through four years of hell like a champ.

Contrast D'Antoni's behavior to Larry Brown's.

D'Antoni never threw a hissy fit, he just went out and try to make it happen.

Guy doesn't deserve to be eaten alive like this.

he was given a team. a team that he theoretically had a hand in assembling - literally there is no player left from when he got here... and yet, he keeps making the team he assembled try to fit into a system that does not play to ANY of their strengths.

it's maddening to watch and we've seen it for a while now from him.

ever since the melo trade. which, if you say he wouldn't have signed off on the melo trade then answer me this... why would he still want to be here?

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:D'Antoni took a lot of money to come here, but he also took a hit for this team and saw them through four years of hell like a champ.

Contrast D'Antoni's behavior to Larry Brown's.

D'Antoni never threw a hissy fit, he just went out and try to make it happen.

Guy doesn't deserve to be eaten alive like this.

crzymdups wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:D'Antoni took a lot of money to come here, but he also took a hit for this team and saw them through four years of hell like a champ.

Contrast D'Antoni's behavior to Larry Brown's.

D'Antoni never threw a hissy fit, he just went out and try to make it happen.

Guy doesn't deserve to be eaten alive like this.

he was given a team. a team that he theoretically had a hand in assembling - literally there is no player left from when he got here... and yet, he keeps making the team he assembled try to fit into a system that does not play to ANY of their strengths.

it's maddening to watch and we've seen it for a while now from him.

ever since the melo trade. which, if you say he wouldn't have signed off on the melo trade then answer me this... why would he still want to be here?

Now I'm going to bed.

You're trying to tell me that he had a hand assembling this team.

This is a spit in my face.

Good day, sir.

martin wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

martin wrote:wow some of the laziest arguments I've seen in a long time. Frustration brings out the worst.

do you mind elaborating?

not really worth jumping in or I would have. Too much knee jerk reaction and frustration from losses. 10 years worth. Fire a coach cause we have no outside shooters and no PG? And neither "allstar" has shown up yet outside of like 2 or 3 games between the 2 of them? <shruggs>

how about fire a coach because he keeps trying to force what should be one of the better power teams in the league to shoot from outside?

remember when herb williams took over as coach in 2005? and he posted up tim thomas and mo taylor 30 times a game? and the team scored? that would be a smarter offense than what d'antoni is trying to force this team into.

the defense has not been bad, it's actually been good. yet another strength they could try and play to but aren't. why demand an offense that requires a point guard and 3pt shooters when neither is on the roster? either build a roster suited to your philosophy or coach the team you have.

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:D'Antoni took a lot of money to come here, but he also took a hit for this team and saw them through four years of hell like a champ.

Contrast D'Antoni's behavior to Larry Brown's.

D'Antoni never threw a hissy fit, he just went out and try to make it happen.

Guy doesn't deserve to be eaten alive like this.

I just think 4 years is enough to access a job. We all have job or own our businesses. After awhile regardless of environment you have to perform. Other teams don't make excuses. Once I want to have a over achieving team. Look at Houston, Utah, Memphis. Overachieving off of effort and good coaching.

In his tenure here how many times are we gonna have to worry about the team not showing up and just looking nonchalant.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:I can't fault D'Antoni at all here. The guy was a point guard when he played. He coaches through the point guard. Larry Brown does too.

You don't hire D'Antoni and then bastardize the position like this.

D'Antoni needs to be let go if the Knicks don't plan on securing an NBA worthy point guard. This is best for both parties.

But I see people here blasting the guy like he's a terrible coach. It's not the case that he's a bad coach, it's just that you gave him something he doesn't know how to work with. Who is to fault for that?

He is in a tough spot this year and basically was put in the position of adjust or we move on. But he has been a bad coach in NY in my opinion and I honestly thought he should have been fired after the 09-10 season with the way he handled things. Also, if instead of playing to your players and teams strengths you try to do what you always have done then you are a bad coach. This roster is not built like D'Antoni's teams in Phoenix but it is his job to coach and prepare them. Adjustments need to made. A point guard would help also but this still is not a team like what he had in Phoenix.

D'Antoni DID CHANGE THE OFFENSE!!! You think this is SSOL the way they played it in PHX? Did you ever watch that team play? Not ONCE here in NY have we run SSOL like they did in PHX. Different personnel and changing personnel. We've not had OVER 65 different players since he's been here! We've changed his starting PG several times. It's beyond any logic that anyone can't see how this has hurt what MDA could do here with this team. This is why I had to leave, but i'm not going anywhere. Anytime I read some nonsense i'm going to slam the person that writes it. Either make a legit argument based on facts or be ready to defend yourself cuz i'm coming hard.

can we just officially call it the SNOL offense? steve nash or less.