AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:never bought into that line of reasoning either. Defense is not just something you turn on during playoffs. You do it all the time, that's what winners do: they do the right thing for their teams all the time, offense or defense.

Your 100% correct. They should play defense all the time.

Realistically that isnt going to happen. Amare and Melo have never been superb defenders. They have the tools but lack the will/focus to do it consistently.

Then we are screwed

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:never bought into that line of reasoning either. Defense is not just something you turn on during playoffs. You do it all the time, that's what winners do: they do the right thing for their teams all the time, offense or defense.

Your 100% correct. They should play defense all the time.

Realistically that isnt going to happen. Amare and Melo have never been superb defenders. They have the tools but lack the will/focus to do it consistently.

Then we are screwed

nixluva wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:never bought into that line of reasoning either. Defense is not just something you turn on during playoffs. You do it all the time, that's what winners do: they do the right thing for their teams all the time, offense or defense.

Your 100% correct. They should play defense all the time.

Realistically that isnt going to happen. Amare and Melo have never been superb defenders. They have the tools but lack the will/focus to do it consistently.

Then we are screwed

What's most likely going to happen is that the offense will eventually get sorted out and they will win games because of that. I'd love for the team to be consistently good on D, but it's not realistic to expect that this year. I do think they can and will play better, just not good for 48 minutes.

for me, 100% coordinated defense is not expected but 100% effort is.

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:never bought into that line of reasoning either. Defense is not just something you turn on during playoffs. You do it all the time, that's what winners do: they do the right thing for their teams all the time, offense or defense.

Your 100% correct. They should play defense all the time.

Realistically that isnt going to happen. Amare and Melo have never been superb defenders. They have the tools but lack the will/focus to do it consistently.

Then we are screwed

What's most likely going to happen is that the offense will eventually get sorted out and they will win games because of that. I'd love for the team to be consistently good on D, but it's not realistic to expect that this year. I do think they can and will play better, just not good for 48 minutes.

for me, 100% coordinated defense is not expected but 100% effort is.

nixluva wrote:

Marv wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:never bought into that line of reasoning either. Defense is not just something you turn on during playoffs. You do it all the time, that's what winners do: they do the right thing for their teams all the time, offense or defense.

Your 100% correct. They should play defense all the time.

Realistically that isnt going to happen. Amare and Melo have never been superb defenders. They have the tools but lack the will/focus to do it consistently.

Then we are screwed

What's most likely going to happen is that the offense will eventually get sorted out and they will win games because of that. I'd love for the team to be consistently good on D, but it's not realistic to expect that this year. I do think they can and will play better, just not good for 48 minutes.

for me, 100% coordinated defense is not expected but 100% effort is.

so where does the coach come in on this? this is where i say mda has a serious gap in his game. he appears to carry little fear factor. his whole shtick is the passive-aggressive game. i won't talk to this one, i won’t play that one. where is the look men in the eye and call them out part of his game? would pops, riley, sloan, etc be ok with this effort, intensity, execution?

Tony Dungy was one of the most mild mannered Football coaches ever. It's not really about yelling or fear. This team has some players that simply don't give 100% effort all the time. We saw that today with Amar'e in particular and Melo at times. STAT was delinquent on D multiple times in this game. Totally 100% lack of effort and discipline on his part. As a team leader he can't do things like this. Mike may not be a great defensive guru, but no coach should have to work to convince his best player to simply do his job. No special effort was necessary, just do his job.

if you determine he's not doing it and you're the coach then you have to step up and do something about it. what's mike doing?

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:never bought into that line of reasoning either. Defense is not just something you turn on during playoffs. You do it all the time, that's what winners do: they do the right thing for their teams all the time, offense or defense.

Your 100% correct. They should play defense all the time.

Realistically that isnt going to happen. Amare and Melo have never been superb defenders. They have the tools but lack the will/focus to do it consistently.

Then we are screwed

What's most likely going to happen is that the offense will eventually get sorted out and they will win games because of that. I'd love for the team to be consistently good on D, but it's not realistic to expect that this year. I do think they can and will play better, just not good for 48 minutes.

for me, 100% coordinated defense is not expected but 100% effort is.

so where does the coach come in on this? this is where i say mda has a serious gap in his game. he appears to carry little fear factor. his whole shtick is the passive-aggressive game. i won't talk to this one, i won’t play that one. where is the look men in the eye and call them out part of his game? would pops, riley, sloan, etc be ok with this effort, intensity, execution?

hey, I can't argue with this. For the most part MDA's only option is to play those guys who don't live up to game plan less minutes, right? Or is on-court yelling in front of camera so we can all see what you propose?

13 games left to playoffs. Sit whomever doesn't play D.

nope. off-court. team meeting as long into the night as it has to go. come to jesus time for these players.

Marv wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:never bought into that line of reasoning either. Defense is not just something you turn on during playoffs. You do it all the time, that's what winners do: they do the right thing for their teams all the time, offense or defense.

Your 100% correct. They should play defense all the time.

Realistically that isnt going to happen. Amare and Melo have never been superb defenders. They have the tools but lack the will/focus to do it consistently.

Then we are screwed

What's most likely going to happen is that the offense will eventually get sorted out and they will win games because of that. I'd love for the team to be consistently good on D, but it's not realistic to expect that this year. I do think they can and will play better, just not good for 48 minutes.

for me, 100% coordinated defense is not expected but 100% effort is.

so where does the coach come in on this? this is where i say mda has a serious gap in his game. he appears to carry little fear factor. his whole shtick is the passive-aggressive game. i won't talk to this one, i won’t play that one. where is the look men in the eye and call them out part of his game? would pops, riley, sloan, etc be ok with this effort, intensity, execution?

As much as some want to bash MDA, I can't imagine top coaches like Phil, Doc, Sloan or LB wanting to deal with what Mike has had to deal with his 2+ years here. To have your team make major moves every year you've been there and have to keep going thru the process of figuring out a rotation over and over. You figure things out, then a trade you have to start over, rinse and repeat 2 more times. The last one was the hardest, cuz he was getting comfortable with his team and this new group is a totally different animal. I think he deserves a chance to go to camp with this group and some help and see what he can do. It's not much to ask considering the circumstances.

crzymdups wrote:

Marv wrote:and as far as carmelo goes it's time for him to realize he's on a dysfunctional team and go out there and put up the 35 a game he's capable of. let the coach utilize your advantage on the court and let him get the rest of the team to complement your game.

Ithink the problem is that Carmelo wants to do that and Mike doesn't want him to.

I think Mike D'Antoni is the main problem right now. He's like, "Melo, you're on MY team." Without realizing that A) they traded his team to get Melo and B) Melo's contract runs about 3yrs longer than D'Antoni's and he has far more pull with Dolan at this point.

not sure how you got that sense at all. MDA has slowed down the offense and changed it enough so that both Melo and Billups would feel comfortable. Maybe I am missing something that you could point out. Hahn has a similar take: http://bit.ly/eiHxEc

Here is the thing that we have seen with Melo: He has not 100% shown that he is a leader. He threw an on-court tantrum at JJ and another at TD over that past week. Now, to be fair, all high level guys do that from time-to-time out of frustration, and there is no prob with that, but you also have to do it at the proper time and not so publicly all the time and I think Melo erred on these 2 recent occasions - more like pouting than anything.

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Marv wrote:and as far as carmelo goes it's time for him to realize he's on a dysfunctional team and go out there and put up the 35 a game he's capable of. let the coach utilize your advantage on the court and let him get the rest of the team to complement your game.

Ithink the problem is that Carmelo wants to do that and Mike doesn't want him to.

I think Mike D'Antoni is the main problem right now. He's like, "Melo, you're on MY team." Without realizing that A) they traded his team to get Melo and B) Melo's contract runs about 3yrs longer than D'Antoni's and he has far more pull with Dolan at this point.

not sure how you got that sense at all. MDA has slowed down the offense and changed it enough so that both Melo and Billups would feel comfortable. Maybe I am missing something that you could point out. Hahn has a similar take: http://bit.ly/eiHxEc

Here is the thing that we have seen with Melo: He has not 100% shown that he is a leader. He threw an on-court tantrum at JJ and another at TD over that past week. Now, to be fair, all high level guys do that from time-to-time out of frustration, and there is no prob with that, but you also have to do it at the proper time and not so publicly all the time and I think Melo erred on these 2 recent occasions - more like pouting than anything.

Papabear Says

Melo is playing with a team of strangers that has not played together very long.All I can say is that all the while Mike D was here he could have taken us to the playoffs when Zach and Crawford was here we would have won more games than we will win this year but Walsh blew up the team looking for lebron. We said that Zachs price was too high well Zaxh is averaging 20 points a game and more that 10 rebounds a game. That equals Amare and Zach was cheaper. Crawford who all of you hated played just as good as defense a Melo and can score almost as many points at a cheaper price. So what did we gain??? 1. A lost playoff season.And we even had David Lee.

nixluva wrote:IMO none of this is physical. The problems Billups, Melo and the rest of the team are having is between the ears. This system isn't easy to just pick up and master and that's why even with a full camp Felton hadn't fully grasped it yet. It took a good deal of time for him to adjust. It will take time for this team to adjust, perhaps more time than we have.

This trade had consequences and part of it was that it put us at a disadvantage in the run up to the playoffs due to the adjustment period. Next year and beyond we can hope for things to improve greatly with more preparation time and the ability to make moves to improve the roster further.