CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Your friend was right. D'Antoni needs to develop those scrubs that were on the floor especially if one is 21 years old, was a lottery pick, and the GM wanted to draft him over the guy the coach convinced him to take.

So mostly you want to give AR the Eddie Curry treatment? Play him just to force minutes? What ever happened to players earning minutes?

Has MDA worked Williams into the rotation? He is a fav of the GM too, was a lottery pick and is young.

MDA has also turned to Fields, a ROOKIE. Starting him.

Second year Toney Douglas is getting a lot of minutes.

Is MDA not developing players or is he developing players?

I know you have read what my opinion is on this many times because you are quick to comment on it. I think Randolph should be given the chance Mosgov was given. Ten minutes a game to get some rythm and flow. Its nothing outrageous but there is a track record with D'Antoni of not developing guys. Douglas did not get any run until Walsh traveled with the team last year to evaluate the players and coaching staff. I am excited about Fields and the fact that D'Antoni has been open minded about playing him. I am sure some of what D'Antoni has done as well as experience has helped Fields. But Fields came out of the draft ready to play so I am hesitant to give too much credit to D'Antoni. He had the smarts to recognize that his 23 year old rookie was an nba ready player and he put him in the starting line up. That is fantastic. He has done other guys wrong and bringing Randolph off the bench last is just another way to tell the youngest guy on the team that you have no faith in him. At least he didn't scream at him tonight but that has happened in the past.

Papabear Say

I remember Trevor Ariza he had no jump shot and the coach had no faith in him. He went to a team that worked with him and he played a lot of minuets. Now AR needs to under stand that he is not a scorer yet and we need to get him into games and if he makes mistakes show him film what he is doing wrong. I think that in time just like Ariza he will get a jump shot if he works hard.

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Your friend was right. D'Antoni needs to develop those scrubs that were on the floor especially if one is 21 years old, was a lottery pick, and the GM wanted to draft him over the guy the coach convinced him to take.

So mostly you want to give AR the Eddie Curry treatment? Play him just to force minutes? What ever happened to players earning minutes?

Has MDA worked Williams into the rotation? He is a fav of the GM too, was a lottery pick and is young.

MDA has also turned to Fields, a ROOKIE. Starting him.

Second year Toney Douglas is getting a lot of minutes.

Is MDA not developing players or is he developing players?

I know you have read what my opinion is on this many times because you are quick to comment on it. I think Randolph should be given the chance Mosgov was given. Ten minutes a game to get some rythm and flow. Its nothing outrageous but there is a track record with D'Antoni of not developing guys. Douglas did not get any run until Walsh traveled with the team last year to evaluate the players and coaching staff. I am excited about Fields and the fact that D'Antoni has been open minded about playing him. I am sure some of what D'Antoni has done as well as experience has helped Fields. But Fields came out of the draft ready to play so I am hesitant to give too much credit to D'Antoni. He had the smarts to recognize that his 23 year old rookie was an nba ready player and he put him in the starting line up. That is fantastic. He has done other guys wrong and bringing Randolph off the bench last is just another way to tell the youngest guy on the team that you have no faith in him. At least he didn't scream at him tonight but that has happened in the past.

this has been debunked about a million times. HOLY CRAP.

Knicks start season 3-8, Moz, AR played minutes. Knicks go out West and win 3 straight games and back to back again CHA - 5 straight - while AR gets pulled and Moz gets minutes diminished. Knicks lose to Hawks.

Knicks win 8 more in a row, all without BOTH Moz (for the most part) and AR.

There seems to be a trend of Moz and AR getting less minutes and the Knicks winning.

Crush, the Knicks NEED to make the playoffs this year. Are you willing to trade Wins for minutes for AR?

I wouldn't and clearly the coaching staff won't either.

OH, AR's biggest stretch of minutes this year is 7 games in a row. How many loses? 6 in a row.

Papabear Says

So what does that mean for the long term. You now have Amear Hurting and so is Felton and both are winded. I would have rather lost a few more game in order to get AR to understand the system and get his feet on solid ground. Now if his head is hard and he just refuse to do what he is told that is another thing. I think the kid has talent which the coaches should bring out. We will need him if we make the playoffs. Or we just burn Amear and Felton out like we did Dohun. Last night the guys from the bench looked rusty because of no real playing time.

Papabear wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Your friend was right. D'Antoni needs to develop those scrubs that were on the floor especially if one is 21 years old, was a lottery pick, and the GM wanted to draft him over the guy the coach convinced him to take.

So mostly you want to give AR the Eddie Curry treatment? Play him just to force minutes? What ever happened to players earning minutes?

Has MDA worked Williams into the rotation? He is a fav of the GM too, was a lottery pick and is young.

MDA has also turned to Fields, a ROOKIE. Starting him.

Second year Toney Douglas is getting a lot of minutes.

Is MDA not developing players or is he developing players?

I know you have read what my opinion is on this many times because you are quick to comment on it. I think Randolph should be given the chance Mosgov was given. Ten minutes a game to get some rythm and flow. Its nothing outrageous but there is a track record with D'Antoni of not developing guys. Douglas did not get any run until Walsh traveled with the team last year to evaluate the players and coaching staff. I am excited about Fields and the fact that D'Antoni has been open minded about playing him. I am sure some of what D'Antoni has done as well as experience has helped Fields. But Fields came out of the draft ready to play so I am hesitant to give too much credit to D'Antoni. He had the smarts to recognize that his 23 year old rookie was an nba ready player and he put him in the starting line up. That is fantastic. He has done other guys wrong and bringing Randolph off the bench last is just another way to tell the youngest guy on the team that you have no faith in him. At least he didn't scream at him tonight but that has happened in the past.

Papabear Say

I remember Trevor Ariza he had no jump shot and the coach had no faith in him. He went to a team that worked with him and he played a lot of minuets. Now AR needs to under stand that he is not a scorer yet and we need to get him into games and if he makes mistakes show him film what he is doing wrong. I think that in time just like Ariza he will get a jump shot if he works hard.

Ariza had 1 decent year shooting wise and a great playoff run with the Lakers. He still doesn't have a jump shot.

I had him on my fantasy team thinking he'd be Bruce Bowen-y but yuuuuck
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3860/career;_ylt=AorEEJE7bMPOCar5ThMBCOYQPaB4

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:Crush, this was your original premise:

CrushAlot wrote:Its nothing outrageous but there is a track record with D'Antoni of not developing guys

Now you are saying something a bit differently:

CrushAlot wrote:I am not going to be smug and say I predict crickets but my response to you was based on Douglas's game log. I am very interested in what numbers/facts you are going to post to show that D'Antoni had any interest in developing Douglas before Walsh traveled with the team on the March Texas road trip to evaluate the coaching staff and the players.

Developing young players can be done in different ways and the end result can be seen in different ways. Right off the bat, here are a ton of young players that MDA has coached that have played (I am stealing list):

BlueSeats wrote:amare, joe johnson, barbosa, diaw, lee, etc, developed pretty well under d'antoni. (this in addition to the veterans who's careers peaked under him, ie, nash, marion, felton, etc.)

With the Knicks, you can add these guys: TD, Gallo, Chandler, Fields.

Those young guys all developed, they got noticeably better over the time span (sometimes that's on player, sometimes on coaching staff, sometimes both - no one can tell). So mostly, end of story end of argument.

DEVELOPING does not necessarily mean playing a player every minute of every game, or even consistent minutes every game, or even every game. Developing just means getting a player better. last 2 years Gallo and Chandler were offered that opportunity but TD was not. So what? Doesn't mean the coaching staff stopped talking to Toney. Doesn't mean they stopped running him through drills. All I know is that TD SUCKED ASS during his first SL - everyone saw that - and he still was shaky this past SL, BUT he has gotten better.

Perhaps TD was not ready for playing time. Perhaps there was a rotation problem. Perhaps he still hadn't figured out how to gel with Lee. Coaches decision, for better or worse.

What you are complaining about is that TD did not get playing time every game, same with AR. In a perfect world TD and AR would get 20 minutes each every game out, both this year and last, but circumstances prove out differently.

Honestly on a playoff team if Randolph is struggling then he may not deserve playing time on a playoff team or may need to be worked in. On a 29 win team where the guard play sucks and all of the guards except the first round pick are going to be gone the following year there is no excuse for not playing douglas. I think the numbers speak for themselves. I also think when you have a talent like Randolph sometimems you might need to say as a coach, What does this guy need from me. I don't think the answer to that can impact the ultimate goal of the team but I do think it should be considered. I know that is not happening this year and several years from now we will look at the randolph trade like the dice or curry trade.

Papabear Says

I agree. When you have a talent like Randolph the coach must say what can I do to take this kid to the next level. this kid is raw what do I need to do to better coach him. NOT PUT HIM AT THE END OF THE BENCH AND FORGET ABOUT HIM. HE IS JUST A KID WHO DOWN THE ROAD CAN HELP US WIN.

Paladin55 wrote:

fishmike wrote:crush... how can you say MDA hasnt developed young players or given them a chance? The reason Fields and Mosgov started was because they earned it. Hill was bad, and showed up out of shape when that was regarded as the most important thing. He was certainly slow to play Douglas last year but if you listen to Douglas its clear he was learning a lot and he said himself he was a different player by the end of the year.

I think AR is a very talented player, but he hasnt earned his spot in the rotation yet and the Knicks are a playoff team

Yup...

...And remember this- it has become obvious to most Knicks' fans that however much we like Douglas, it is probably never going to be a perfect sub for Felton. The fact that the Knicks are looking for a backup PG tells you everything you need to know about how they look at Douglas at this point.

For all we know MDA was trying to make TD into the kind of PG he is not, and never will be, and only started playing him when he realized that Douglas was a hybrid guard leaning toward being a SG.

MDA plays the guys who can play within his system. He has proven this with Gallo and Fields, and to a lesser extent Chandler, who was also getting good minutes despite his age.

I just think the youth development criticism is a losing argument for those who propose it.

TD looked better last night than he has in a looooong time in terms of passing the ball vs. pounding it. Taking shots in the flow of the offense instead of looking to get his. Loved TD last night. Have been HATING the way he's been playing lately but last night he looked great.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

fishmike wrote:crush... how can you say MDA hasnt developed young players or given them a chance? The reason Fields and Mosgov started was because they earned it. Hill was bad, and showed up out of shape when that was regarded as the most important thing. He was certainly slow to play Douglas last year but if you listen to Douglas its clear he was learning a lot and he said himself he was a different player by the end of the year.

I think AR is a very talented player, but he hasnt earned his spot in the rotation yet and the Knicks are a playoff team

Yup...

...And remember this- it has become obvious to most Knicks' fans that however much we like Douglas, it is probably never going to be a perfect sub for Felton. The fact that the Knicks are looking for a backup PG tells you everything you need to know about how they look at Douglas at this point.

For all we know MDA was trying to make TD into the kind of PG he is not, and never will be, and only started playing him when he realized that Douglas was a hybrid guard leaning toward being a SG.

MDA plays the guys who can play within his system. He has proven this with Gallo and Fields, and to a lesser extent Chandler, who was also getting good minutes despite his age.

I just think the youth development criticism is a losing argument for those who propose it.

TD looked better last night than he has in a looooong time in terms of passing the ball vs. pounding it. Taking shots in the flow of the offense instead of looking to get his. Loved TD last night. Have been HATING the way he's been playing lately but last night he looked great.

Amear not Amare. HATTING not HATING.

nyk4ever wrote:

Papabear wrote:

iSergio wrote:

Papabear wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Your friend was right. D'Antoni needs to develop those scrubs that were on the floor especially if one is 21 years old, was a lottery pick, and the GM wanted to draft him over the guy the coach convinced him to take.

So mostly you want to give AR the Eddie Curry treatment? Play him just to force minutes? What ever happened to players earning minutes?

Has MDA worked Williams into the rotation? He is a fav of the GM too, was a lottery pick and is young.

MDA has also turned to Fields, a ROOKIE. Starting him.

Second year Toney Douglas is getting a lot of minutes.

Is MDA not developing players or is he developing players?

I know you have read what my opinion is on this many times because you are quick to comment on it. I think Randolph should be given the chance Mosgov was given. Ten minutes a game to get some rythm and flow. Its nothing outrageous but there is a track record with D'Antoni of not developing guys. Douglas did not get any run until Walsh traveled with the team last year to evaluate the players and coaching staff. I am excited about Fields and the fact that D'Antoni has been open minded about playing him. I am sure some of what D'Antoni has done as well as experience has helped Fields. But Fields came out of the draft ready to play so I am hesitant to give too much credit to D'Antoni. He had the smarts to recognize that his 23 year old rookie was an nba ready player and he put him in the starting line up. That is fantastic. He has done other guys wrong and bringing Randolph off the bench last is just another way to tell the youngest guy on the team that you have no faith in him. At least he didn't scream at him tonight but that has happened in the past.

this has been debunked about a million times. HOLY CRAP.

Knicks start season 3-8, Moz, AR played minutes. Knicks go out West and win 3 straight games and back to back again CHA - 5 straight - while AR gets pulled and Moz gets minutes diminished. Knicks lose to Hawks.

Knicks win 8 more in a row, all without BOTH Moz (for the most part) and AR.

There seems to be a trend of Moz and AR getting less minutes and the Knicks winning.

Crush, the Knicks NEED to make the playoffs this year. Are you willing to trade Wins for minutes for AR?

I wouldn't and clearly the coaching staff won't either.

OH, AR's biggest stretch of minutes this year is 7 games in a row. How many loses? 6 in a row.

Papabear Says

So what does that mean for the long term. You now have Amear Hurting and so is Felton and both are winded. I would have rather lost a few more game in order to get AR to understand the system and get his feet on solid ground. Now if his head is hard and he just refuse to do what he is told that is another thing. I think the kid has talent which the coaches should bring out. We will need him if we make the playoffs. Or we just burn Amear and Felton out like we did Dohun. Last night the guys from the bench looked rusty because of no real playing time.

GOD DAMN IT IT'S AMAR'E! A-M-A-R-E!!

It's not that hard!!

Papabear Says

Man go sit on an egg and pour water on your head. I don't appreciate you calling Gods name in vain to me. Use it on other people if you choose but not to me. It's my Christian values and please respect that. Peace.

maybe he wants you to respect his knick-fan values and spell amar'e correctly?

we all know Andrew is going to be coming for you soon for your misspellings.. oh wait no, thats only bip that gets that

Papabear Says

Maybe you have no values and that's you're problem. Not mine. I don't use bad words against anyone on this forum and all I expect is the same and if you don't like the way I write just ignore me. Amear Amear Amear he is a great payer. oops I left out the L