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Game Thread: 2008/09 season is here sweet! Open new era against revamped Miami Heat
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K22
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10/30/2008  12:07 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Marbury's interesting reaction:

“He should do whatever he feels he should do. I can’t control what he does. He’s the coach,” said Marbury, who said he understood D’Antoni’s decision. “If this is what it is, I mean there’s always next year.”


And the fuse has been lit. The question now is how long the spark gets to the core and the explosion happens.

[Edited by - K22 on 2008-10-30 12:08 AM]
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
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SupremeCommander
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10/30/2008  12:13 AM
Nice recap boys... missed the game, but felt like I was there. One question though. Everyone seems to be ripping the interior defense, but how was the perimeter defense? Obviously the perimeter d improves with interior d, but nonetheless the perimeter d has also been pretty bad
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MattSuspect
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10/30/2008  12:28 AM
was at the game, gonna go through the game thread in the morning, but hopefully you heard the pretty loud "we want steph!" chants it was pretty weird.

good to get a win though.
MattSuspect
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10/30/2008  12:32 AM
chants were coming from the upper level, boos weren't nearly as strong. hell, I wanted to see steph play, whatever we want to think about him, he's awfully talented to garner a dnp. People still pay to see him.
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10/30/2008  12:34 AM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by GKFv2:

Yes I can. Players make the coach, not vice versa. Steve Nash made D'Antoni. Don Chaney, Herb Williams, Lenny Wilkens, Larry Brown, and Isiah Thomas failed. The last 3 coaches failed with basically the same team. That tells you something. The style is different but the results will be the same for the most part.

[Edited by - gkfv2 on 10-28-2008 7:05 PM]

What!?!?!?!

I think D'Antoni made Nash! Nobody was thinking too highly of Nash when he was in Dallas....everyone though he was good but nobody in Knick land wanted him and a highly remember that back in those days.

In pheonix everything meshed. D'antoni's style of play and the players. Amare, Marion, Nash, Joe Johnson? in a pure uptempo system? Diaw? Raja? who are these guys? So Nash made everyone?

The Knicks have been losing cuz......wait for it....................................................................................................................SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHEN WERE THE KNICKS EVER GOOD UNDER LAYDEN OR ISIAH? WHEN DID THEY GET GOOD PLAYERS? WHEN DID THEY GET MARION? AMARE?

So cut the nonsense......just enjoy the new season. you do know how to enjoy something right?



[Edited by - enyspree on 29-10-2008 12:02 AM]

Very good points Eny!

Michael Jordan made Phil Jackson. What is this nonsense about a coach making a player ? Please.
Finestrg
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10/30/2008  12:39 AM
- The way we closed out this game was a disgrace. Especially to that team - let's be honest, the Heat isn't a good team. Wade had an off-night and he doesn't have nearly enough help anyway. When you got a team down, the good team's smell blood and go for the kill. Look at the Lakers last night. They had Portland (a much better team than the Heat) down early and kept them down all night, eventually winning by 20.

- Other than the lack of a good close-out, there were a lot of positives. Lee gave you his double-double and really passed it well, Zach scored at will and rebounded the ball, Craw played well overall (when he takes good shoots he's looks like one of the league's better off-guards but he still takes too many bad shots), Nate played well in the end (his ball-handling & FT shooting down the stretch was the difference), Duhon had an impact and Chandler played awesome. Stuff to build on...

- I've done nothing but sing D'Antoni's praises so far (and rightly so) but you gotta call him out on two things tonight:

(1) He really jerked Steph around badly tonight and embarrased the guy and it shouldn't have come to that. Look, Marbury's a loon and it's clear he's not part of this team's future but the way he was treated tonight was unnecessary. Although he doesn't start in the pre-season (outside of one game at home against the Celtics), it was clear he was part of the rotation, playing 20-25 mins. and playing pretty well to boot. Then he doesn't even get in tonight. Very weird. Again, I don't care because I've come to the realization that Steph's gone after this season, but come on Mike, if this is what you knew you wanted to do you tell the guy what your intentions are (I hope he did but somehow I doubt it) and you let him know where he stands. Now you pull this and you're really running the risk of Steph becoming a real malcontent and cancer, things I associate with last year's team, hopefully not this year's. When asked about Marbury's DNP during the post-game press conference, D'Antoni had this to say (in substance): "There's two directions the team's going, the now and the future...I don't blame Steph if he was upset, I don't really have an answer for you." Come on bro, that's weak. You know what, no problem Mike, a lot of us are on board with that, but you gotta tell Steph that. Say what you want but unlike a complete stiff like Eddy Curry, Marbury's in optimum shape and can still play at a pretty high level. If Steph just found out tonight like we all did, that's wrong. I expect a little more from D'Antoni. I mean at least Isiah told Steph on the plane last year that he planned on starting Mardy. Mike's gotta sit down with him and clear the air & lay the law down. Any player, no matter how difficult or immature, deserves that much from their coach.

(2) You gotta find a way to get Gallinari more than a few minutes in the first half. When you're up 19,20,21 points in the second half, you get that kid back in the game for some more minutes. Suppose he did that and Gallo put some points on the board or even got hot, then all of a sudden we're talkin' how good Gallo looked and not how we almost coughed the game up. Bottom line we were up 20 well into the second half at home - get this kid back in the game. No excuses...

[Edited by - finestrg on 10-30-2008 12:41 AM]
Knicksfan
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10/30/2008  12:46 AM
Posted by Finestrg:

- The way we closed out this game was a disgrace. Especially to that team - let's be honest, the Heat isn't a good team. Wade had an off-night and he doesn't have nearly enough help anyway. When you got a team down, the good team's smell blood and go for the kill. Look at the Lakers last night. They had Portland (a much better team than the Heat) down early and kept them down all night, eventually winning by 20.

[Edited by - finestrg on 10-30-2008 12:41 AM]

You lost me there. How can you compare these Knicks to those Lakers? They are definite title contenders, have a balanced and talented roster and have the best player in the league. The Knicks are just starting a new era and the only positive thing is the new coach.

As a fan you hate the fact that the Knicks couldn't close out the game strong, but given the situation this was mainly a positive start for us. We can do nothing but learn from this and thats the best for us.
Knicks_Fan
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10/30/2008  1:06 AM
I think there is a definate reason as to why MDA didn't play steph. My thinking is that he really wanted to test him, whether this whole "i'll be happy with my role" thing was just talk from Marbs or if he really means it. I understand that steph put in the effort to get in shape and wants to be a good boy. Thing is , thats something that should be taken for granted. Sitting on the bench the whole game during the 1st game of the season at the garden and reacting to it "the right way" that would really be an accomplishment for steph and MDA gave him the chance to do that tonite. I guess we'll see how the whole thing plays out
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
TMS
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10/30/2008  1:09 AM
Posted by Finestrg:

- I've done nothing but sing D'Antoni's praises so far (and rightly so) but you gotta call him out on two things tonight:

(1) He really jerked Steph around badly tonight and embarrased the guy and it shouldn't have come to that. Look, Marbury's a loon and it's clear he's not part of this team's future but the way he was treated tonight was unnecessary. Although he doesn't start in the pre-season (outside of one game at home against the Celtics), it was clear he was part of the rotation, playing 20-25 mins. and playing pretty well to boot. Then he doesn't even get in tonight. Very weird. Again, I don't care because I've come to the realization that Steph's gone after this season, but come on Mike, if this is what you knew you wanted to do you tell the guy what your intentions are (I hope he did but somehow I doubt it) and you let him know where he stands. Now you pull this and you're really running the risk of Steph becoming a real malcontent and cancer, things I associate with last year's team, hopefully not this year's. When asked about Marbury's DNP during the post-game press conference, D'Antoni had this to say (in substance): "There's two directions the team's going, the now and the future...I don't blame Steph if he was upset, I don't really have an answer for you." Come on bro, that's weak. You know what, no problem Mike, a lot of us are on board with that, but you gotta tell Steph that. Say what you want but unlike a complete stiff like Eddy Curry, Marbury's in optimum shape and can still play at a pretty high level. If Steph just found out tonight like we all did, that's wrong. I expect a little more from D'Antoni. I mean at least Isiah told Steph on the plane last year that he planned on starting Mardy. Mike's gotta sit down with him and clear the air & lay the law down. Any player, no matter how difficult or immature, deserves that much from their coach.

i think it's pretty obvious MDA doesn't want Marbury on this squad... it's w/in a coach's right to play the guys he believes in... obviously he doesn't believe in Steph & with good reason based on his past history... whether this sends the message to Walsh & Dolan, time will tell, but i was happy as hell to see a head coach w/the balls to follow his own convictions rather than play guys based on the salary they're making.
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Hoopsmeister
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10/30/2008  1:11 AM
Posted by VDesai:

I'd attribute the poor 4th to two things- lack of interior D and lack of consistent shooting. Still every team in the NBA gives up a run, and we had our lead quite early on in the 2nd half.

In the draft I'd be looking at a running big- someone like Thabeet or if we are better, Jordan Hill.

It all comes down to the guys not knowing how to close out games, after the last 2-3 yrs of losing or longer, most of these guys don't know what to do with a 20-25 point lead, so this is something that Mike D will drill into their heads sooner or later, hopefully sooner, if not get the players in, that know how to win.
Finestrg
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10/30/2008  1:29 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Finestrg:

- I've done nothing but sing D'Antoni's praises so far (and rightly so) but you gotta call him out on two things tonight:

(1) He really jerked Steph around badly tonight and embarrased the guy and it shouldn't have come to that. Look, Marbury's a loon and it's clear he's not part of this team's future but the way he was treated tonight was unnecessary. Although he doesn't start in the pre-season (outside of one game at home against the Celtics), it was clear he was part of the rotation, playing 20-25 mins. and playing pretty well to boot. Then he doesn't even get in tonight. Very weird. Again, I don't care because I've come to the realization that Steph's gone after this season, but come on Mike, if this is what you knew you wanted to do you tell the guy what your intentions are (I hope he did but somehow I doubt it) and you let him know where he stands. Now you pull this and you're really running the risk of Steph becoming a real malcontent and cancer, things I associate with last year's team, hopefully not this year's. When asked about Marbury's DNP during the post-game press conference, D'Antoni had this to say (in substance): "There's two directions the team's going, the now and the future...I don't blame Steph if he was upset, I don't really have an answer for you." Come on bro, that's weak. You know what, no problem Mike, a lot of us are on board with that, but you gotta tell Steph that. Say what you want but unlike a complete stiff like Eddy Curry, Marbury's in optimum shape and can still play at a pretty high level. If Steph just found out tonight like we all did, that's wrong. I expect a little more from D'Antoni. I mean at least Isiah told Steph on the plane last year that he planned on starting Mardy. Mike's gotta sit down with him and clear the air & lay the law down. Any player, no matter how difficult or immature, deserves that much from their coach.

i think it's pretty obvious MDA doesn't want Marbury on this squad... it's w/in a coach's right to play the guys he believes in... obviously he doesn't believe in Steph & with good reason based on his past history... whether this sends the message to Walsh & Dolan, time will tell, but i was happy as hell to see a head coach w/the balls to follow his own convictions rather than play guys based on the salary they're making.

Understandable. I'm not a Steph fan, was when we first got him but not anymore. He's proved to be too immature and too much of a sideshow. But you gotta admit it's strange to play the guy 20-25 minutes every game in the pre-season, even starting him one game, then not even get him in the opener tonight. To me, "conviction" involves sticking to one plan start to finish and that's not what D'Antoni did here. If this is how Mike felt, why even play him at all in the pre-season and make him think he's part of your plans? That's all I'm saying. And his post game explanation left at lot to be desired. Again, not a huge deal because it's clear he's gone at the end of the year and we'll finally move on, but like I mentioned, the last thing I wanna see this year is any drama and if you jerk this guy around that's exactly what you're gonna get. That could be a problem, it was last year. Bad karma on a team, especially a young team, is no good. Just heard on Sportscenter that Steph said, "well if this is how it's gonna be, there's alway next year." Not as bad a reaction as I would've thought but if this continues, DNPs coach's decision, Steph will find a way to cause a problem and that's the last thing we need.
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10/30/2008  1:37 AM
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Finestrg:

- I've done nothing but sing D'Antoni's praises so far (and rightly so) but you gotta call him out on two things tonight:

(1) He really jerked Steph around badly tonight and embarrased the guy and it shouldn't have come to that. Look, Marbury's a loon and it's clear he's not part of this team's future but the way he was treated tonight was unnecessary. Although he doesn't start in the pre-season (outside of one game at home against the Celtics), it was clear he was part of the rotation, playing 20-25 mins. and playing pretty well to boot. Then he doesn't even get in tonight. Very weird. Again, I don't care because I've come to the realization that Steph's gone after this season, but come on Mike, if this is what you knew you wanted to do you tell the guy what your intentions are (I hope he did but somehow I doubt it) and you let him know where he stands. Now you pull this and you're really running the risk of Steph becoming a real malcontent and cancer, things I associate with last year's team, hopefully not this year's. When asked about Marbury's DNP during the post-game press conference, D'Antoni had this to say (in substance): "There's two directions the team's going, the now and the future...I don't blame Steph if he was upset, I don't really have an answer for you." Come on bro, that's weak. You know what, no problem Mike, a lot of us are on board with that, but you gotta tell Steph that. Say what you want but unlike a complete stiff like Eddy Curry, Marbury's in optimum shape and can still play at a pretty high level. If Steph just found out tonight like we all did, that's wrong. I expect a little more from D'Antoni. I mean at least Isiah told Steph on the plane last year that he planned on starting Mardy. Mike's gotta sit down with him and clear the air & lay the law down. Any player, no matter how difficult or immature, deserves that much from their coach.

i think it's pretty obvious MDA doesn't want Marbury on this squad... it's w/in a coach's right to play the guys he believes in... obviously he doesn't believe in Steph & with good reason based on his past history... whether this sends the message to Walsh & Dolan, time will tell, but i was happy as hell to see a head coach w/the balls to follow his own convictions rather than play guys based on the salary they're making.

Understandable. I'm not a Steph fan, was when we first got him but not anymore. He's proved to be too immature and too much of a sideshow. But you gotta admit it's strange to play the guy 20-25 minutes every game in the pre-season, even starting him one game, then not even get him in the opener tonight. To me, "conviction" involves sticking to one plan start to finish and that's not what D'Antoni did here. If this is how Mike felt, why even play him at all in the pre-season and make him think he's part of your plans? That's all I'm saying. And his post game explanation left at lot to be desired. Again, not a huge deal because it's clear he's gone at the end of the year and we'll finally move on, but like I mentioned, the last thing I wanna see this year is any drama and if you jerk this guy around that's exactly what you're gonna get. That could be a problem, it was last year. Bad karma on a team, especially a young team, is no good. Just heard on Sportscenter that Steph said, "well if this is how it's gonna be, there's alway next year." Not as bad a reaction as I would've thought but if this continues, DNPs coach's decision, Steph will find a way to cause a problem and that's the last thing we need.

Benching and humiliating Marbury like that was stupid and classless. It hurt the team from a basketball standpoint as well.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TMS
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10/30/2008  1:57 AM
u never know... maybe the strategy all along was to showcase Marbury a little to show other teams he can still play in hopes that it might somehow lead to a trade later? i dunno, just trying to make reason of it... i agree it's a head scratcher to play the guy in preseason if u have no intention of playing him in the season opener, but like u i was once in Steph's corner but he proved to me he's not a guy i wanna put my faith in any more... personally i'm loving the fact that MDA's playing the guys who are likely to be here beyond this season rather than Marbs even if he's the more talented player... it's only 1 game tho & things can change in a hurry but i'm liking what i see so far... i don't blame Marbury if he's upset over his benching but the guy made his bed, now he's gotta sleep in it as far as i'm concerned... i got no pity for him.
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crzymdups
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10/30/2008  2:18 AM
thoughts on the game:

1) the only disgrace about the marbury situation was fans cheering for him. the guy is a selfish loser who finally met a coach with a bigger juice card than him. see ya, steph. for the record, i was in section 100 (a friend had tickets from his job) and i responded "NO WE DONT" to the "we want steph" crap.

2) the team looked great, but clearly got tired in the 4th. lee was huffing and exhausted after his huge 3rd and early 4th quarter. we need jefferies back or a contributing gallinari fast. this team is light on forwards. it's a role Ewing Jr could have filled. though I mostly would have wanted to see how Balkman looked out there. we need a forward to spell Lee, ZBO and Chandler. Mardy and Malik aren't cutting it.

3) Duhon was VERY impressive pushing and moving the ball. won't show up in the stat sheet, but he's everything Marbury isn't. Nate looked good as a facilitator, too.

4) Chandler is SMOOTH. he's very very good.

5) DLee and Jamal looked great on offense, but are horrendous defenders. they are truly practitioners of the matador defense clyde talks about. really bad on defense.

6) the general mood of the garden seemed to be skeptical and not involved in the game. i have a feeling that is mostly the fact that it was a first night crowd. the real fans weren't there yet, but also i think fans were shocked that the team was scoring so much and that marbury was completely uninvolved. i think the marbury situation could get very ugly and fast. ironically, miami is in desperate need of a true pick and roll PG and marbury would probably fit in perfectly. chalmers played well, but he was mainly getting his own - Miami has no one who knows who to get Marion or Beasley the ball in the right spot. running them off pick and rolls seems a natural move, but miami has no one who could do it.

7) Gallinari looked nervous on offense, but he shut down Livingston on defense. wow. it was weird. nice to see Coach D get Gallo's feet wet in the first half. i think he'll get more and more minutes and hopefully look more and more comfortable out there.

8) agreed that coach Dantoni's demeanor is a welcome change from anyone we've had in a while. brown complained a lot, but he didn't put his players in situations where they could succeed. Mike D has put his players in situations they can succeed and he seems to only get mad when they don't do what he knows they CAN do. there's a difference there between what he and LB get mad about.

9) any PF worth his salt is going to destroy us this year. Haslem had 23pts 10rebs and the Heat did not go to him enough because they don't have a real PG. Brand could get 40pts on friday - Andre Miller will know how to find him. the defense is a problem, particularly anyone DLee or Crawford is guarding.
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DarkKnicks
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10/30/2008  6:29 AM
Always nice to beat the Heat! I could not watch the game, but Im starting already to eat my words about Lee, because if he continues to average 15+ points he definately is worth 9/10 million $ a year. But Im happy to have been wrong about him if this keeps on.

I cant wait to see Chandler starting for us! Lee and him will be the only good things of Isiah's legacy.
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10/30/2008  8:02 AM
Who cares if Marbury was benched? The guy has been nothing short of a classless individual since he arrived with this franchise and I could care less. I'm glad D'Antoni sat him down the way he did, Steph has made the Garden his playground since he got here and not in a good way. Enjoy a taste of your own medicine.
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Pharzeone
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10/30/2008  8:05 AM
Posted by DarkKnicks:

Always nice to beat the Heat! I could not watch the game, but Im starting already to eat my words about Lee, because if he continues to average 15+ points he definately is worth 9/10 million $ a year. But Im happy to have been wrong about him if this keeps on.

I cant wait to see Chandler starting for us! Lee and him will be the only good things of Isiah's legacy.

You can throw in Nate too. I am a fan of the little man.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
fishmike
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10/30/2008  8:14 AM
the exciting guy on this team is Nate, who plays on both ends and now gets to run around in space.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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10/30/2008  8:35 AM
I agree Lee has a lot to work on the defensive end but the main reason with this team is the perimeter defense. Wade, Chalmers, and Cook did what ever they wanted last night. When they get in the lane and they dump it off to a big that is the perimeter fault. Our guards get zero rebounds and cant keep a guy in front of him. Miami scored 31 points on the inside last night and I thought that was the most active are bigs have been defensively in a long time.
TMS
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10/30/2008  9:08 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Who cares if Marbury was benched? The guy has been nothing short of a classless individual since he arrived with this franchise and I could care less. I'm glad D'Antoni sat him down the way he did, Steph has made the Garden his playground since he got here and not in a good way. Enjoy a taste of your own medicine.

seriously, these guys are making Steph out to be some sympathetic figure all of a sudden... a few months ago people couldn't wait to ride him on a rail outta NYC... a couple weeks of keeping his mouth shut does not erase 4 years of embarassing this city & this once proud franchise w/his idiotic behavior... he got what he deserved & i for one hope MDA's got plenty more DNP's up his sleeve for Steph to finally get the message he's no longer wanted in NY.
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Game Thread: 2008/09 season is here sweet! Open new era against revamped Miami Heat

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