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VDesai
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2/9/2009  2:41 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by VDesai:

Yanks should sign Manny Ramirez to deflect away the PR

so that his name could be leaked in may?


People would just chalk it up to Manny being Manny
AUTOADVERT
TMS
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2/9/2009  2:42 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

arod admits using roids from 01-03 in texas. says he's been clean since 2003. said he felt pressure to live up to the big contract.

the entire interview (by peter gammons) will be shown tonight on sportscenter.

i'm glad he's decided to own up to it & not try to deny his guilt the way Bonds, McGwire & Clemens have done... the sooner he fesses up & owns up to his mistake, the better the chance that baseball will forgive him for his transgression.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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2/9/2009  2:51 PM
Admitting it was the smart move. Admitting using PED's in years when he wasn't associated with his current employer is even smarter.

I'm not going to say that PED's didn't help him but his numbers in non-testing years and the years since they started testing, aren't all that different. In 2007, which is arguably his greatest season, he tested clean.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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2/9/2009  2:55 PM
doesn't mean he's clean, only that he wasn't detected for taking roids... so far there are no reliable tests being used for HGH to my knowledge... i think a lot of today's stars are using HGH to get an edge even after the whole Mitchell Report nonsense.

at this point i'm so fed up w/trying to decide who's cheating & who's not, they oughta just legalize the stuff & let these guys kill themselves if that's what they wanna do... the fans don't really care when it's all said & done as long as it's the dirty little secret that doesn't get talked about... that's how MLB approached this problem before & now they're dealing w/the consequences of their inaction back then... PED's is way too ingrained into sports in general to do away w/them completely.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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2/9/2009  2:58 PM
Posted by TMS:

doesn't mean he's clean, only that he wasn't detected for taking roids... so far there are no reliable tests being used for HGH to my knowledge... i think a lot of today's stars are using HGH to get an edge even after the whole Mitchell Report nonsense.

at this point i'm so fed up w/trying to decide who's cheating & who's not, they oughta just legalize the stuff & let these guys kill themselves if that's what they wanna do... the fans don't really care when it's all said & done as long as it's the dirty little secret that doesn't get talked about... that's how MLB approached this problem before & now they're dealing w/the consequences of their inaction back then... PED's is way too ingrained into sports in general to do away w/them completely.

I agree but then what's the point of the current testing and why single out anybody when everybody could still theoretically be using PED's?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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2/9/2009  3:11 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:

doesn't mean he's clean, only that he wasn't detected for taking roids... so far there are no reliable tests being used for HGH to my knowledge... i think a lot of today's stars are using HGH to get an edge even after the whole Mitchell Report nonsense.

at this point i'm so fed up w/trying to decide who's cheating & who's not, they oughta just legalize the stuff & let these guys kill themselves if that's what they wanna do... the fans don't really care when it's all said & done as long as it's the dirty little secret that doesn't get talked about... that's how MLB approached this problem before & now they're dealing w/the consequences of their inaction back then... PED's is way too ingrained into sports in general to do away w/them completely.

I agree but then what's the point of the current testing and why single out anybody when everybody could still theoretically be using PED's?

it's all politics bro... Congress wanted baseball to take action, so they're doing what they can to appease Congress & make it seem like they're doing their due dilgence to combat this problem... but in reality everyone knows PED's are still a huge part of the game & as long as technology & research exists to come up w/new ways to beat the system, there's never gonna be a way to do away w/them completely... i guess in our country it's a lot more important to worry about who's taking roids & who's not instead of focusing on how the hell i'm gonna feed my family in this horrendous economy... nice job putting the priorities where they belong Congress.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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2/9/2009  3:21 PM
arod gets paid alot of money...and he cheated. period. (again, i really don't care).

but his story is fascinating. the player's union have let him down twice now - once when he wanted to go to the red sox and now with this leak.

he's a 2 time mvp yet yankee fans boo him.

just amazing how he is perceived by fans and media...
Bonn1997
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2/9/2009  6:18 PM
Posted by 4949:

The only thing I'm looking forward to at this point is Jeets 3,000.

Yeah and then his name will be leaked!
Bonn1997
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2/9/2009  6:20 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by djsunyc:

arod admits using roids from 01-03 in texas. says he's been clean since 2003. said he felt pressure to live up to the big contract.

the entire interview (by peter gammons) will be shown tonight on sportscenter.

i'm glad he's decided to own up to it & not try to deny his guilt the way Bonds, McGwire & Clemens have done... the sooner he fesses up & owns up to his mistake, the better the chance that baseball will forgive him for his transgression.
Agreed.

One other thought that popped into my mind: if his statement that it was only from 01-03 is truthful, then by the time he retires he may have over 500 HR (usually an automatic into the hall-of-fame) without those years.

TMS
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2/9/2009  6:23 PM
i don't think u can take any of the words from ARod to be truthful anymore after he had previously denied taking any PED's in his interview w/Catie Kouric a few years back... i like that he's owning up to his mistake though & apologizing for it... i really wish every name on that list could be made public now so we don't end up singling out 1 or 2 guys for this whole steroid scandal... it casts a highly inaccurate & myopic view of just how widespread this problem has become
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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2/9/2009  6:34 PM
Posted by TMS:

i don't think u can take any of the words from ARod to be truthful anymore
Yeah, I think you're 100% right. I think the leaking of his name was simply wrong since the players volunteered to do the testing under the condition of anonymity.

TMS
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2/9/2009  6:45 PM
i can't recall how many MLers i've heard over the years categorically deny they've used PED's & then it comes out that they actually have... from Raphael Palmeiro's finger wagging in front of Congress, to Barry Bonds' denials under grand jury testimony, to Roger Clemens' denials in his court trial (though he's yet to be proven to have tested positive as yet)... then u have David Justice who's been getting accused by Radomski yet he continues to deny his ever using the stuff, & guys like Fernando Vina who have commented on the topic of players using steroids on baseball during that whole witchhunt that went down during the Mitchell Report fiasco & sitting on his high horse pretending that he'd never used the stuff, only to admit years later that he had used HGH after his name was reportedly leaked as part of that whole investigation.

Denial, denial, denial... that's all we ever hear from these players... no one wants to own up to it until after the fact that the truth comes out & they have no other way to deny it anymore... just make the names public once & for all & let's end this stupidity & suspicion.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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2/9/2009  8:08 PM
u wanna know what i think? i think ARod knew exactly what he was putting into his body during those years, & i believe he may still be taking HGH even now... i believe at least 60-70% of all professional athletes have at some point or another tried or seriously considered taking PEDs of some form or another, & i don't believe that athletes simply inject themselves w/stuff like steroids & HGH w/o knowing full well what it is that they're taking... this is not your run of the mill D-ball steroid pill u can buy at any Gold's Gym from a guy named Vinny we're talking about here... these drugs that are being found in these guys' systems are serious stuff that isn't readily available over the counter at your local GNC or through the dude with the wifebeater & Puma sweats on that comes to the gym every Friday night.

u wanna know something else? at this point i really could care less who's taking & who isn't... the sport has been so badly tainted by this whole thing that regardless who gets proven to have taken them or not, not 1 of the records are legit ones because chances are most of those numbers were also put up against competition that was juicing themselves... i think history should just treat this era just like they did the "Live Ball" era in baseball, & judge every player w/a grain of salt... this should give every fan of baseball that much more appreciation for what the players of old were able to do in this game & the milestones they were able to reach, & i think this steroid thing more than anything else has given fans a newfound respect for those guys who played back then.

i also don't think u can stop guys from being voted into the Hall of Fame if they've owned up to their mistake & have repented for their transgressions... i think if Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds & Roger Clemens were to follow ARod's example, someday those guys may be forgiven too... i think if Pete Rose were to admit to betting on baseball during games he managed, he would have been allowed in to the HOF by now also... it just does no good to keep denying these types of things... the truth always seems to have a way of revealing itself in the long run... i think every player that gets into the HOF that has played in this era of steroids should be treated w/the same exact level of suspicion, because no one is above this issue, i don't care how many soap boxes they wanna preach from about how they never did the stuff... we've all seen just how much words like that have been worth from these players in the past.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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2/9/2009  9:05 PM
if arod got into specifics now, he would most definitely be called into congress to testify under oath about who these people were and how he got them. that would open a whole new can of worms. so until congress calls him in to testify under oath, there's no need to divulge specifics.

considering there has been random testing since 2004 and he underwent olympic quality testing in 2006 and will again in a few weeks, i think it's safe to assume he's been "clean" (under the definition of baseball) during his yankee career. but even if he wasn't, all i really care about is him helping us win this year.

alex is a unique personality and a free spirit that i feel tries too hard to not something he's not. he really needs to be himself and let the chips fall where they may. with this admission, it's quite possibly that this was the monkey on his back that could've resulted in even his domestic problems with his wife. it's possible that he has the most stress free year coming up as all he has to do is not hide from it anymore.

but with this interview, he put himself out there. so if anything he said was a lie, then he's finished. he has 2 strikes on him.
TMS
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2/9/2009  9:29 PM
i'm an ARod supporter as u already know, but even i know the guy has never been known to be an off the cuff type of guy... everything he says & does is rehearsed & carefully orchestrated... he's a very intelligent guy... i don't believe for a second that he injected stuff into his veins that he didn't know exactly what they were... i think he's the type of guy that would have researched exactly what he was taking months before while weighing all the pros & cons of the stuff before he finally decided to take the plunge & actually do it.

bottomline is, i don't care that he took roids in '01 - '03... all i care about is how he helps this team in '09... & IMO that's the only thing any Yankee fan should really care about, because chances are there's so many other guys on this team that have experimented w/PEDs just like there are on every other team in baseball that singling out certain guys accomplishes nothing at this point... the entire sport is tainted & will continue to be tainted regardless of who confesses to using & who doesn't.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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2/9/2009  10:06 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

if arod got into specifics now, he would most definitely be called into congress to testify under oath about who these people were and how he got them. that would open a whole new can of worms. so until congress calls him in to testify under oath, there's no need to divulge specifics.

considering there has been random testing since 2004 and he underwent olympic quality testing in 2006 and will again in a few weeks, i think it's safe to assume he's been "clean" (under the definition of baseball) during his yankee career. but even if he wasn't, all i really care about is him helping us win this year.

alex is a unique personality and a free spirit that i feel tries too hard to not something he's not. he really needs to be himself and let the chips fall where they may. with this admission, it's quite possibly that this was the monkey on his back that could've resulted in even his domestic problems with his wife. it's possible that he has the most stress free year coming up as all he has to do is not hide from it anymore.

but with this interview, he put himself out there. so if anything he said was a lie, then he's finished. he has 2 strikes on him.
Clean now? I remember reading in one article about rumors that he was informed of the date of his "random" drug testing. I don't have any confidence in baseball actually cleaning anything up.
4949
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2/9/2009  11:04 PM
You guys should see what Canseco is saying about Gene Orza, Bud Selig and Fehr?

As it turns out, Canseco is the only one we can trust, because he's been telling the truth this whole time.

And just wait until people want to know who A-Roid's been involved with. This should get real interesting. What a mess!
I'll never trust this' team again.
islesfan
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2/9/2009  11:56 PM
Posted by 4949:

You guys should see what Canseco is saying about Gene Orza, Bud Selig and Fehr?

As it turns out, Canseco is the only one we can trust, because he's been telling the truth this whole time.

And just wait until people want to know who A-Roid's been involved with. This should get real interesting. What a mess!

Canseco is absolutely right about Orza, Fehr and Selig. He should have thrown Bob Dupay in there as well.

If only a handful of players were caught using PED's, you could blame those players individually, but if usage is rampant, blame falls on the shoulders of the caretakers of the game.

Why did Selig, Dupay and the rest of MLB, ignore PED's and were so late in getting any kind of testing policy into the game? Why did Fehr and Orza ignore the concerns of players not using PED's and why were they more interested in increasing salaries than the health and well being of the players they represented? And why did it take threats from Congress to get them to allow testing?

Those people should be taking the most heat right now but are allowed to hide in their little holes.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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2/10/2009  12:47 PM
jim kaat's take on it:

http://mlbnetwork.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200902093811954
TMS
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2/10/2009  1:33 PM
Jim Kaat is consistently 1 of the most unbiased commentators in sports... i loved his take on this whole issue & how he mentioned that if using Pine Tar was a hugely punishable offense back when he played, that he wouldn't have done it either... the fact remains that players will always look to gain an edge no matter what sport we're talking about & the rules surrounding steroids back in the days when these MLB players were using the stuff were not nearly as stringent as they are today & the ramifications of being found out were nowhere near as far reaching... we have guys in the HOF who are admitted cheaters like Gaylord Perry who would doctor the balls by scuffing them & using vaseline to gain that competitive edge & yet no one seems to care about that form of "cheating"... because we're talking about controlled substances here, it's being brought forth as a huge issue... i just find some serious hypocritical logic at play here... it's ok to cheat, as long as u don't use steroids... gotcha.

& another thing, all these "unnamed sources" that keep coming out & leaking information & ruining players' reputations makes me sick... i'm not saying the players are right for taking roids, but the way these sources selectively leak information to sell news stories & create controversy is even more despicable to me than the actual act of cheating in baseball.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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