Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Nalod-

Look at those infographics and tell me Marriages are not failing us.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/global-divorce-rates-statistics/

Then there is the cost of raising a child and the cost shown here doen't even include college
https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-average-cost-of-raising-a-child

The median net worth of households between Ages 45-54? $84,542 - The cost of raising the average child is three times the entire net worth of the median family (hald the poulation has even less net worth). You really think debt is not taking hold of married families?
https://www.thebalance.com/american-net-worth-by-state-metropolitan-4135839

These are not signs of an affluent middle class doing well, these are signs of a stealth mode disaster that has been unfolding for the last thirty something years.

We talking about Triples equating marriage to slavery. Not how expensive shyt is.
Nalod’s mother was a single white women divorced in te late 1960’s and she had no education.
I recal a bare fridge but never went hungry. Im not gonna brag about how I ascended in America.
Shyt is getting inequitable in this country and Dumb whites people are dangerous. They are voting stupid and they don’t understand if the divide keeps claiming its going to get worse.
Dumb white Americans is the problem. “Hillbilly Effigy”. Great book!
As for me, I save, invest, gave my kids a debt free education and they know they are fortunate. I am putting money now away in 529’s for 4 grand children I don’t have and won’t for years. IM plannng ahead. Education system is corrupt as hell. Devo’s is the poster women for this backwards movement.

It seems like we are in violent agreement 😀

I will try to reposition this one more time. Marriage does lead to increased responsibilities, which leads to increased debt which results in enslavement. So equating to marriage to slavery wasn't wrong, at least the data seems to support it. It "feels" wrong from a moral POV and from a personal anecdotal level. But if you dispense with the misogyny in his statements, the rest of it really is true. You are taking the marriage equals slavery thing personally and I am saying look at it from a aggregate level.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Nalod-

Look at those infographics and tell me Marriages are not failing us.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/global-divorce-rates-statistics/

Then there is the cost of raising a child and the cost shown here doen't even include college
https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-average-cost-of-raising-a-child

The median net worth of households between Ages 45-54? $84,542 - The cost of raising the average child is three times the entire net worth of the median family (hald the poulation has even less net worth). You really think debt is not taking hold of married families?
https://www.thebalance.com/american-net-worth-by-state-metropolitan-4135839

These are not signs of an affluent middle class doing well, these are signs of a stealth mode disaster that has been unfolding for the last thirty something years.

We talking about Triples equating marriage to slavery. Not how expensive shyt is.
Nalod’s mother was a single white women divorced in te late 1960’s and she had no education.
I recal a bare fridge but never went hungry. Im not gonna brag about how I ascended in America.
Shyt is getting inequitable in this country and Dumb whites people are dangerous. They are voting stupid and they don’t understand if the divide keeps claiming its going to get worse.
Dumb white Americans is the problem. “Hillbilly Effigy”. Great book!
As for me, I save, invest, gave my kids a debt free education and they know they are fortunate. I am putting money now away in 529’s for 4 grand children I don’t have and won’t for years. IM plannng ahead. Education system is corrupt as hell. Devo’s is the poster women for this backwards movement.

It seems like we are in violent agreement 😀

I will try to reposition this one more time. Marriage does lead to increased responsibilities, which leads to increased debt which results in enslavement. So equating to marriage to slavery wasn't wrong, at least the data seems to support it. It "feels" wrong from a moral POV and from a personal anecdotal level. But if you dispense with the misogyny in his statements, the rest of it really is true. You are taking the marriage equals slavery thing personally and I am saying look at it from a aggregate level.

Got to chime in on marriage...

Marriage is not failing us...people are failing people....in todays world you can hook up for the night stand on you phone...there are too many easy outs......

Marriage equal to enslavement can either make great sense or little to no sense.....it is all perspective.....if I "practice the principle of love" with my partner and she does with me.....then we are thick and thin together.....through all ups and downs....if I am looking at marriage as something purely transactional.....what "I" get out of it and then I do not get what I expect then yes I can look at this as a situation that I am enslaved to....but I can change that...by leaving

Marriage having kids dealing with old age in parents then with each other is work....but if done right it is work you enjoy and then it does not become work...it becomes a worthwhile responsibility....

meloshouldgo wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Nalod-

Look at those infographics and tell me Marriages are not failing us.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/global-divorce-rates-statistics/

Then there is the cost of raising a child and the cost shown here doen't even include college
https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-average-cost-of-raising-a-child

The median net worth of households between Ages 45-54? $84,542 - The cost of raising the average child is three times the entire net worth of the median family (hald the poulation has even less net worth). You really think debt is not taking hold of married families?
https://www.thebalance.com/american-net-worth-by-state-metropolitan-4135839

These are not signs of an affluent middle class doing well, these are signs of a stealth mode disaster that has been unfolding for the last thirty something years.

We talking about Triples equating marriage to slavery. Not how expensive shyt is.
Nalod’s mother was a single white women divorced in te late 1960’s and she had no education.
I recal a bare fridge but never went hungry. Im not gonna brag about how I ascended in America.
Shyt is getting inequitable in this country and Dumb whites people are dangerous. They are voting stupid and they don’t understand if the divide keeps claiming its going to get worse.
Dumb white Americans is the problem. “Hillbilly Effigy”. Great book!
As for me, I save, invest, gave my kids a debt free education and they know they are fortunate. I am putting money now away in 529’s for 4 grand children I don’t have and won’t for years. IM plannng ahead. Education system is corrupt as hell. Devo’s is the poster women for this backwards movement.

It seems like we are in violent agreement 😀

I will try to reposition this one more time. Marriage does lead to increased responsibilities, which leads to increased debt which results in enslavement. So equating to marriage to slavery wasn't wrong, at least the data seems to support it. It "feels" wrong from a moral POV and from a personal anecdotal level. But if you dispense with the misogyny in his statements, the rest of it really is true. You are taking the marriage equals slavery thing personally and I am saying look at it from a aggregate level.

Got to chime in on marriage...

Marriage is not failing us...people are failing people....in todays world you can hook up for the night stand on you phone...there are too many easy outs......

Marriage equal to enslavement can either make great sense or little to no sense.....it is all perspective.....if I "practice the principle of love" with my partner and she does with me.....then we are thick and thin together.....through all ups and downs....if I am looking at marriage as something purely transactional.....what "I" get out of it and then I do not get what I expect then yes I can look at this as a situation that I am enslaved to....but I can change that...by leaving

Marriage having kids dealing with old age in parents then with each other is work....but if done right it is work you enjoy and then it does not become work...it becomes a worthwhile responsibility....

True, it's all about perspective. Part of the argument is that the perspective is changing or had changed for the millennials.

Also you are arguing about your personal feelings towards marriage. The discussion should be around whether marriage encroaches on a person's freedom and causes them to be bound to s st of circumstances(irrespective of whether they enjoy it or not). The core argument here is marriage gets in the way of social mobility, ambition etc. Not whether it's a good thing or a bad thing.

Enslavement is defined as
Enslavement is the state of being trapped in a situation from which it is difficult to escape.

It's a loss of freedom, not a loss of enjoyment.

Freedom is a state of mind not the state of existence of your body.
One can be free in jail and another be a slave in the palace.
Freedom is the ability to control you mind and ego.
Marriage has nothing to do with it.
If all human being concerned about is to satisfy his egocentric needs he is a slave no matter what and bound to misery.
Marriage and family is one of the ways to obtain freedom by caring about other people instead of always miserably clamoring about yourself.
Of course we have many other ways to exercise love to others, nature,and the whole creation to not be miserable.
So if marriage is not working there are many replacements.

meloshouldgo wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Nalod-

Look at those infographics and tell me Marriages are not failing us.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/global-divorce-rates-statistics/

Then there is the cost of raising a child and the cost shown here doen't even include college
https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-average-cost-of-raising-a-child

The median net worth of households between Ages 45-54? $84,542 - The cost of raising the average child is three times the entire net worth of the median family (hald the poulation has even less net worth). You really think debt is not taking hold of married families?
https://www.thebalance.com/american-net-worth-by-state-metropolitan-4135839

These are not signs of an affluent middle class doing well, these are signs of a stealth mode disaster that has been unfolding for the last thirty something years.

We talking about Triples equating marriage to slavery. Not how expensive shyt is.
Nalod’s mother was a single white women divorced in te late 1960’s and she had no education.
I recal a bare fridge but never went hungry. Im not gonna brag about how I ascended in America.
Shyt is getting inequitable in this country and Dumb whites people are dangerous. They are voting stupid and they don’t understand if the divide keeps claiming its going to get worse.
Dumb white Americans is the problem. “Hillbilly Effigy”. Great book!
As for me, I save, invest, gave my kids a debt free education and they know they are fortunate. I am putting money now away in 529’s for 4 grand children I don’t have and won’t for years. IM plannng ahead. Education system is corrupt as hell. Devo’s is the poster women for this backwards movement.

It seems like we are in violent agreement 😀

I will try to reposition this one more time. Marriage does lead to increased responsibilities, which leads to increased debt which results in enslavement. So equating to marriage to slavery wasn't wrong, at least the data seems to support it. It "feels" wrong from a moral POV and from a personal anecdotal level. But if you dispense with the misogyny in his statements, the rest of it really is true. You are taking the marriage equals slavery thing personally and I am saying look at it from a aggregate level.

Got to chime in on marriage...

Marriage is not failing us...people are failing people....in todays world you can hook up for the night stand on you phone...there are too many easy outs......

Marriage equal to enslavement can either make great sense or little to no sense.....it is all perspective.....if I "practice the principle of love" with my partner and she does with me.....then we are thick and thin together.....through all ups and downs....if I am looking at marriage as something purely transactional.....what "I" get out of it and then I do not get what I expect then yes I can look at this as a situation that I am enslaved to....but I can change that...by leaving

Marriage having kids dealing with old age in parents then with each other is work....but if done right it is work you enjoy and then it does not become work...it becomes a worthwhile responsibility....

True, it's all about perspective. Part of the argument is that the perspective is changing or had changed for the millennials.

Also you are arguing about your personal feelings towards marriage. The discussion should be around whether marriage encroaches on a person's freedom and causes them to be bound to s st of circumstances(irrespective of whether they enjoy it or not). The core argument here is marriage gets in the way of social mobility, ambition etc. Not whether it's a good thing or a bad thing.

Enslavement is defined as
Enslavement is the state of being trapped in a situation from which it is difficult to escape.

It's a loss of freedom, not a loss of enjoyment.

Agreed...but it is a choice that you make willingly.....freedom of being an individual to merging as a team.....if it is something you want...there is no lamenting the loss of freedom....it is the upside you are receiving from becoming one.

I agree...perspective with millennials have changed...the crux and fundamental pillars of marriage have not...

I think the advent of social media (facebook), loosening of moral boundries(tinder), and the idea of marriage being a long slog plays into this.

meloshouldgo wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Nalod-

Look at those infographics and tell me Marriages are not failing us.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/global-divorce-rates-statistics/

Then there is the cost of raising a child and the cost shown here doen't even include college
https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-average-cost-of-raising-a-child

The median net worth of households between Ages 45-54? $84,542 - The cost of raising the average child is three times the entire net worth of the median family (hald the poulation has even less net worth). You really think debt is not taking hold of married families?
https://www.thebalance.com/american-net-worth-by-state-metropolitan-4135839

These are not signs of an affluent middle class doing well, these are signs of a stealth mode disaster that has been unfolding for the last thirty something years.

We talking about Triples equating marriage to slavery. Not how expensive shyt is.
Nalod’s mother was a single white women divorced in te late 1960’s and she had no education.
I recal a bare fridge but never went hungry. Im not gonna brag about how I ascended in America.
Shyt is getting inequitable in this country and Dumb whites people are dangerous. They are voting stupid and they don’t understand if the divide keeps claiming its going to get worse.
Dumb white Americans is the problem. “Hillbilly Effigy”. Great book!
As for me, I save, invest, gave my kids a debt free education and they know they are fortunate. I am putting money now away in 529’s for 4 grand children I don’t have and won’t for years. IM plannng ahead. Education system is corrupt as hell. Devo’s is the poster women for this backwards movement.

It seems like we are in violent agreement 😀

I will try to reposition this one more time. Marriage does lead to increased responsibilities, which leads to increased debt which results in enslavement. So equating to marriage to slavery wasn't wrong, at least the data seems to support it. It "feels" wrong from a moral POV and from a personal anecdotal level. But if you dispense with the misogyny in his statements, the rest of it really is true. You are taking the marriage equals slavery thing personally and I am saying look at it from a aggregate level.

Got to chime in on marriage...

Marriage is not failing us...people are failing people....in todays world you can hook up for the night stand on you phone...there are too many easy outs......

Marriage equal to enslavement can either make great sense or little to no sense.....it is all perspective.....if I "practice the principle of love" with my partner and she does with me.....then we are thick and thin together.....through all ups and downs....if I am looking at marriage as something purely transactional.....what "I" get out of it and then I do not get what I expect then yes I can look at this as a situation that I am enslaved to....but I can change that...by leaving

Marriage having kids dealing with old age in parents then with each other is work....but if done right it is work you enjoy and then it does not become work...it becomes a worthwhile responsibility....

True, it's all about perspective. Part of the argument is that the perspective is changing or had changed for the millennials.

Also you are arguing about your personal feelings towards marriage. The discussion should be around whether marriage encroaches on a person's freedom and causes them to be bound to s st of circumstances(irrespective of whether they enjoy it or not). The core argument here is marriage gets in the way of social mobility, ambition etc. Not whether it's a good thing or a bad thing.

Enslavement is defined as
Enslavement is the state of being trapped in a situation from which it is difficult to escape.

It's a loss of freedom, not a loss of enjoyment.

Agreed...but it is a choice that you make willingly.....freedom of being an individual to merging as a team.....if it is something you want...there is no lamenting the loss of freedom....it is the upside you are receiving from becoming one.

I agree...perspective with millennials have changed...the crux and fundamental pillars of marriage have not...

I think the advent of social media (facebook), loosening of moral boundries(tinder), and the idea of marriage being a long slog plays into this.

A happy marriage takes sacrifices. What the GOP is finding ot at their own expense with millennials, is that when you make selfishness and beggar thy neighbor you choke mainstream narrative, it wonders the values that are built on the desire to share experiences with others. Selfishness is not a social construct.

100%

ekstarks94 wrote:Marriage equal to enslavement can either make great sense or little to no sense.....it is all perspective.....if I "practice the principle of love" with my partner and she does with me.....then we are thick and thin together.....through all ups and downs....if I am looking at marriage as something purely transactional.....what "I" get out of it and then I do not get what I expect then yes I can look at this as a situation that I am enslaved to....but I can change that...by leaving

Take any married guy in here. Have his wife say to him one night. I'm just not into sex anymore. I don't like it. It doesn't feel good to me anymore. I have headaches. It stresses me out. ( This happens far more often than people think) How long do you think guys here would put up with that ****? Not very long.

Take any married woman married to any guy here. Guy says he wants to quit his job and become a musician. Even though he's the primary earner in the family ( which is typically the case) It's his dream, his passion, what he's always wanted to do. How long do you think any wife would put up with that ****? Not very long.

Women give sex. Men give commitment in the form of money/assets/resources/provision.

This is an age old type trade and has always been at work. Yes, in previous times, marriage was used by two families to join forces for political/business/safety reasons. The concept of a "dowry" revolves around the fact that the husband's family is incurring a BURDEN by taking in the daughter of another family and bringing her into their household.

The baseline point I'm making is that some guys in here want to scream/yell/point fingers at Politician X, Scandal Y, and ideology type Z when the erosion of the world around you is happening household by household and family by family. More kids today are growing up in broken homes, many from single parents ( No, I am not insulting anyone here who was raised by a single parent) Do any of you think this has no impact on how these kids are growing up and the fracturing of what are considered values and basic civility in our current society?

I call marriage slavery because a man's COMMITMENT IS ENFORCED. The modern divorce is no fault. It means the court system/legal system does not weigh out the actual reasons for the breakdown of the marriage. She can cheat and file for divorce. Cheating means nothing in the eyes of the law. She gets over half your money and likely the house and your kids too. She can stop sleeping with you. She can stop working. Get fat. Not take care of the kids. Women don't go around marrying men who are much poorer than them do they? It happens sometimes but not very often. Women are the ones typically filing for divorce, typically are the ones getting child support and alimony and government assistance. Most men might get joint custody, but working all the time to keep up with child support and alimony, how often will you see your kids?

As Chris Rock says, you have to keep paying her, but she doesn't have to keep ****ing you, does she?

Modern marriage gives women nearly all the power in the relationship. Which is why women want marriage so badly and so many men right now don't give a **** about it.

Marriage is an agreement between YOU, HER and THE GOVERNMENT. They tell you when you can see your kids, how often and how much you must pay her for them. They also decide what punishment happens if you don't line up with this.

The government says what you have to do, when and for how much and for how long. Or else. You can go to jail for not paying your child support. She is under no obligation to itemize or account for how those child support checks are being used for the child or children. There's a story of a US soldier fighting overseas and was taken prisoner, and fell behind on his child support. When released he came back home, was promptly arrested and taken to jail.

She can cheat on you. Leave you for someone else on a whim. Stop ****ing you. Nag you until the end. Drive you into debt. And guess what? At any point, she can file for divorce, take most of your money, most of your access to your kids and you can't do **** about it. Why do you think there are so many broken homes out there? Because divorce is easy and there are no real social penalties anymore for it.

As for sexual promiscuity being a problem, humans are designed for two specific things. Survive and reproduce. We are wired to do this. Men instinctively will be revolted by any woman he has sexual interest in who sleeps around a lot. Why? Because instinctively he can't be sure the children born will be his. I'm sure someone wills say get a paternity test. Well your instinctive reactions and drivers are not something you can control, you are wired this way for a reason. A man who sleeps around a lot is seem as socially desirable and thus a better mate. ( I.E. A stud) A woman who sleeps around a lot is seen as non wife/non mother material ( i.e. a whore) Yes, it is a double standard, but think how easy it is for the average looking woman out there to get sex anytime she wants it.

In the Tinder/Instagram/Snapchat/Facebook/social media generation, and with no real checks anymore in behavior, it's socially acceptable for young women to whore it up. Which reduces their wife/mother worthiness in the eyes of many men.

The bigger problem is not some politician in some controversy that is detached from your day to day life. ( While those things might still be large issues on their own) It's the people next door. The ones that are sending their kids to school with your kids. The people that you work with and socialize with all the time.

Marriage is great for many women. Lots of upside, lots of power, lots of options. But it's a **** deal for most men in America. It's inviting the government to tell you what to do when it all falls apart and it statistically does. Most guys here married now will be divorced at some point. The statistics are not in your favor. And the odds are your soon to be ex wife will be the one to file for it.

How many happy marriages do most people see out there? I'm not talking about people married only for a couple of years. Everyone has a honeymoon phase then. How many more are divorced? How many not divorced but should be and are miserable? How many are sexless and basically reduced to irritated roommates? How many ****ed up kids spawn from this chaos?

You make a legal commitment with her and the government. She can leave you at any time for any reason. She doesn't have to offer you regular sex or any sex, or fidelity or commitment. No matter what, odds are you will be paying her long after she's done with you. Meanwhile the government determines how often you can see your own damn children.

This sound like a good deal to you? Take the word slavery out of it if you want. It's still a one sided **** deal that is causing broken homes and ****ing up children everywhere. You think these things have nothing to do with the many current ills in American society now?

Those of you still married here in America are not being ****ed over/financially ****ed over only by the whims and current good graces of your current wife. How long will that last? Are you comfortable putting that much power of your entire life into someone else's hands? Most of your are older, the values were different, the people were different, the circumstances are different. If Nalod was a teenager in the 70's/80's, does he really understand the full context of the conflicts for a 22 year old today and right now?

It's not actually a partnership if one side has nearly all the power.

Anyone here, feel free to tell me I'm wrong. Fine, everyone has a different view. All I'll say is look at the people around you. It's not like what I'm saying is some kind of shocking reveal that many of you don't encounter every single day in your neighborhoods, schools, work or whatnot.

ekstarks94 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:Marriage equal to enslavement can either make great sense or little to no sense.....it is all perspective.....if I "practice the principle of love" with my partner and she does with me.....then we are thick and thin together.....through all ups and downs....if I am looking at marriage as something purely transactional.....what "I" get out of it and then I do not get what I expect then yes I can look at this as a situation that I am enslaved to....but I can change that...by leaving

Take any married guy in here. Have his wife say to him one night. I'm just not into sex anymore. I don't like it. It doesn't feel good to me anymore. I have headaches. It stresses me out. ( This happens far more often than people think) How long do you think guys here would put up with that ****? Not very long.

Take any married woman married to any guy here. Guy says he wants to quit his job and become a musician. Even though he's the primary earner in the family ( which is typically the case) It's his dream, his passion, what he's always wanted to do. How long do you think any wife would put up with that ****? Not very long.

Women give sex. Men give commitment in the form of money/assets/resources/provision.

This is an age old type trade and has always been at work. Yes, in previous times, marriage was used by two families to join forces for political/business/safety reasons. The concept of a "dowry" revolves around the fact that the husband's family is incurring a BURDEN by taking in the daughter of another family and bringing her into their household.

The baseline point I'm making is that some guys in here want to scream/yell/point fingers at Politician X, Scandal Y, and ideology type Z when the erosion of the world around you is happening household by household and family by family. More kids today are growing up in broken homes, many from single parents ( No, I am not insulting anyone here who was raised by a single parent) Do any of you think this has no impact on how these kids are growing up and the fracturing of what are considered values and basic civility in our current society?

I call marriage slavery because a man's COMMITMENT IS ENFORCED. The modern divorce is no fault. It means the court system/legal system does not weigh out the actual reasons for the breakdown of the marriage. She can cheat and file for divorce. Cheating means nothing in the eyes of the law. She gets over half your money and likely the house and your kids too. She can stop sleeping with you. She can stop working. Get fat. Not take care of the kids. Women don't go around marrying men who are much poorer than them do they? It happens sometimes but not very often. Women are the ones typically filing for divorce, typically are the ones getting child support and alimony and government assistance. Most men might get joint custody, but working all the time to keep up with child support and alimony, how often will you see your kids?

As Chris Rock says, you have to keep paying her, but she doesn't have to keep ****ing you, does she?

Modern marriage gives women nearly all the power in the relationship. Which is why women want marriage so badly and so many men right now don't give a **** about it.

Marriage is an agreement between YOU, HER and THE GOVERNMENT. They tell you when you can see your kids, how often and how much you must pay her for them. They also decide what punishment happens if you don't line up with this.

The government says what you have to do, when and for how much and for how long. Or else. You can go to jail for not paying your child support. She is under no obligation to itemize or account for how those child support checks are being used for the child or children. There's a story of a US soldier fighting overseas and was taken prisoner, and fell behind on his child support. When released he came back home, was promptly arrested and taken to jail.

She can cheat on you. Leave you for someone else on a whim. Stop ****ing you. Nag you until the end. Drive you into debt. And guess what? At any point, she can file for divorce, take most of your money, most of your access to your kids and you can't do **** about it. Why do you think there are so many broken homes out there? Because divorce is easy and there are no real social penalties anymore for it.

As for sexual promiscuity being a problem, humans are designed for two specific things. Survive and reproduce. We are wired to do this. Men instinctively will be revolted by any woman he has sexual interest in who sleeps around a lot. Why? Because instinctively he can't be sure the children born will be his. I'm sure someone wills say get a paternity test. Well your instinctive reactions and drivers are not something you can control, you are wired this way for a reason. A man who sleeps around a lot is seem as socially desirable and thus a better mate. ( I.E. A stud) A woman who sleeps around a lot is seen as non wife/non mother material ( i.e. a whore) Yes, it is a double standard, but think how easy it is for the average looking woman out there to get sex anytime she wants it.

In the Tinder/Instagram/Snapchat/Facebook/social media generation, and with no real checks anymore in behavior, it's socially acceptable for young women to whore it up. Which reduces their wife/mother worthiness in the eyes of many men.

The bigger problem is not some politician in some controversy that is detached from your day to day life. ( While those things might still be large issues on their own) It's the people next door. The ones that are sending their kids to school with your kids. The people that you work with and socialize with all the time.

Marriage is great for many women. Lots of upside, lots of power, lots of options. But it's a **** deal for most men in America. It's inviting the government to tell you what to do when it all falls apart and it statistically does. Most guys here married now will be divorced at some point. The statistics are not in your favor. And the odds are your soon to be ex wife will be the one to file for it.

How many happy marriages do most people see out there? I'm not talking about people married only for a couple of years. Everyone has a honeymoon phase then. How many more are divorced? How many not divorced but should be and are miserable? How many are sexless and basically reduced to irritated roommates? How many ****ed up kids spawn from this chaos?

You make a legal commitment with her and the government. She can leave you at any time for any reason. She doesn't have to offer you regular sex or any sex, or fidelity or commitment. No matter what, odds are you will be paying her long after she's done with you. Meanwhile the government determines how often you can see your own damn children.

This sound like a good deal to you? Take the word slavery out of it if you want. It's still a one sided **** deal that is causing broken homes and ****ing up children everywhere. You think these things have nothing to do with the many current ills in American society now?

Those of you still married here in America are not being ****ed over/financially ****ed over only by the whims and current good graces of your current wife. How long will that last? Are you comfortable putting that much power of your entire life into someone else's hands? Most of your are older, the values were different, the people were different, the circumstances are different. If Nalod was a teenager in the 70's/80's, does he really understand the full context of the conflicts for a 22 year old today and right now?

It's not actually a partnership if one side has nearly all the power.

Anyone here, feel free to tell me I'm wrong. Fine, everyone has a different view. All I'll say is look at the people around you. It's not like what I'm saying is some kind of shocking reveal that many of you don't encounter every single day in your neighborhoods, schools, work or whatnot.

This presents marriage as transactional and part is and part not. Supposed the wife gets cancer or some disease and you cannot have sex...so are you going to dump her so you find someone that fits your needs....guess what that is not a marriage based on the practice of love but based on the emotion of love....two different things

I understand how you feel the woman have the power and understand the right circumstances and the person in a divorce a man can get f@cked....but that man should have not involved in the first place....people ....men and women show their real character even in the slightest....it is up to the other person to pay attention.

Growing I knew a guy that was big time in high school basketball had scholarship offers from Duke, Gtown, Carolina, etc....at the time he was dating a chick that was a year younger than us....she did not want him to go away to school....she did not want to lose him....we spent months trying to convince him to go ......he did not listen ended up getting her pregnant going to community college...dropped out after the first year...

He got married to this chick...she went to school for nursing....he found out that she was cheating because he came home to find two tickets to the Caribbean for their anniversary...problem is one of the tickets had another guys name on it....he confronted her....she was like he not doing anything with his life....she left him and moved in with the guy and his kids....the guy did not want friends kid around so this bitch gave him to her mother to watch....would not even give the kid to my friend...

Morale of the story time....

If a person really loves you they want the best for you....this guy had the talent to go to the NBA and threw that away for someone that once they got their life on tract threw him away....

Marriage is transactional to a degree ....real love is not.

I am not quite getting you points because I am from another culture.
I am a Jew and in Jewish culture (religious and not) woman is the center of the universe.
Jew can only be considered so if his mother is Jewish.
Jewish man or woman can f..ck on the side but the marriage is more important that that all sex bull..sht so in most cases family stays together regardless.
Kids are the end of all means and they have to have both parents and family regardless.
The cost of what it takes for parents is irrelevant.
If kid is sick... If kid for example has Down syndrome he will leave with his parents and family at home until he/she will pass away.
Man or women who never get married or became widow considered in greatest possible misfortune and pain.
Having the family and marriage above any other personal and societal things in the culture help us survive and excel for thousands of years.
Great civilization and Empires arise and fall living no trace but we persist watching over human race futility.
And one of the main reason why - is the traditions of family, marriage, and great respect to woman as a mother, wife, the keeper of the traditions and spirit of the nation.

TripleThreat wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:Marriage equal to enslavement can either make great sense or little to no sense.....it is all perspective.....if I "practice the principle of love" with my partner and she does with me.....then we are thick and thin together.....through all ups and downs....if I am looking at marriage as something purely transactional.....what "I" get out of it and then I do not get what I expect then yes I can look at this as a situation that I am enslaved to....but I can change that...by leaving

Take any married guy in here. Have his wife say to him one night. I'm just not into sex anymore. I don't like it. It doesn't feel good to me anymore. I have headaches. It stresses me out. ( This happens far more often than people think) How long do you think guys here would put up with that ****? Not very long.

Take any married woman married to any guy here. Guy says he wants to quit his job and become a musician. Even though he's the primary earner in the family ( which is typically the case) It's his dream, his passion, what he's always wanted to do. How long do you think any wife would put up with that ****? Not very long.

Women give sex. Men give commitment in the form of money/assets/resources/provision.

This is an age old type trade and has always been at work. Yes, in previous times, marriage was used by two families to join forces for political/business/safety reasons. The concept of a "dowry" revolves around the fact that the husband's family is incurring a BURDEN by taking in the daughter of another family and bringing her into their household.

The baseline point I'm making is that some guys in here want to scream/yell/point fingers at Politician X, Scandal Y, and ideology type Z when the erosion of the world around you is happening household by household and family by family. More kids today are growing up in broken homes, many from single parents ( No, I am not insulting anyone here who was raised by a single parent) Do any of you think this has no impact on how these kids are growing up and the fracturing of what are considered values and basic civility in our current society?

I call marriage slavery because a man's COMMITMENT IS ENFORCED. The modern divorce is no fault. It means the court system/legal system does not weigh out the actual reasons for the breakdown of the marriage. She can cheat and file for divorce. Cheating means nothing in the eyes of the law. She gets over half your money and likely the house and your kids too. She can stop sleeping with you. She can stop working. Get fat. Not take care of the kids. Women don't go around marrying men who are much poorer than them do they? It happens sometimes but not very often. Women are the ones typically filing for divorce, typically are the ones getting child support and alimony and government assistance. Most men might get joint custody, but working all the time to keep up with child support and alimony, how often will you see your kids?

As Chris Rock says, you have to keep paying her, but she doesn't have to keep ****ing you, does she?

Modern marriage gives women nearly all the power in the relationship. Which is why women want marriage so badly and so many men right now don't give a **** about it.

Marriage is an agreement between YOU, HER and THE GOVERNMENT. They tell you when you can see your kids, how often and how much you must pay her for them. They also decide what punishment happens if you don't line up with this.

The government says what you have to do, when and for how much and for how long. Or else. You can go to jail for not paying your child support. She is under no obligation to itemize or account for how those child support checks are being used for the child or children. There's a story of a US soldier fighting overseas and was taken prisoner, and fell behind on his child support. When released he came back home, was promptly arrested and taken to jail.

She can cheat on you. Leave you for someone else on a whim. Stop ****ing you. Nag you until the end. Drive you into debt. And guess what? At any point, she can file for divorce, take most of your money, most of your access to your kids and you can't do **** about it. Why do you think there are so many broken homes out there? Because divorce is easy and there are no real social penalties anymore for it.

As for sexual promiscuity being a problem, humans are designed for two specific things. Survive and reproduce. We are wired to do this. Men instinctively will be revolted by any woman he has sexual interest in who sleeps around a lot. Why? Because instinctively he can't be sure the children born will be his. I'm sure someone wills say get a paternity test. Well your instinctive reactions and drivers are not something you can control, you are wired this way for a reason. A man who sleeps around a lot is seem as socially desirable and thus a better mate. ( I.E. A stud) A woman who sleeps around a lot is seen as non wife/non mother material ( i.e. a whore) Yes, it is a double standard, but think how easy it is for the average looking woman out there to get sex anytime she wants it.

In the Tinder/Instagram/Snapchat/Facebook/social media generation, and with no real checks anymore in behavior, it's socially acceptable for young women to whore it up. Which reduces their wife/mother worthiness in the eyes of many men.

The bigger problem is not some politician in some controversy that is detached from your day to day life. ( While those things might still be large issues on their own) It's the people next door. The ones that are sending their kids to school with your kids. The people that you work with and socialize with all the time.

Marriage is great for many women. Lots of upside, lots of power, lots of options. But it's a **** deal for most men in America. It's inviting the government to tell you what to do when it all falls apart and it statistically does. Most guys here married now will be divorced at some point. The statistics are not in your favor. And the odds are your soon to be ex wife will be the one to file for it.

How many happy marriages do most people see out there? I'm not talking about people married only for a couple of years. Everyone has a honeymoon phase then. How many more are divorced? How many not divorced but should be and are miserable? How many are sexless and basically reduced to irritated roommates? How many ****ed up kids spawn from this chaos?

You make a legal commitment with her and the government. She can leave you at any time for any reason. She doesn't have to offer you regular sex or any sex, or fidelity or commitment. No matter what, odds are you will be paying her long after she's done with you. Meanwhile the government determines how often you can see your own damn children.

This sound like a good deal to you? Take the word slavery out of it if you want. It's still a one sided **** deal that is causing broken homes and ****ing up children everywhere. You think these things have nothing to do with the many current ills in American society now?

Those of you still married here in America are not being ****ed over/financially ****ed over only by the whims and current good graces of your current wife. How long will that last? Are you comfortable putting that much power of your entire life into someone else's hands? Most of your are older, the values were different, the people were different, the circumstances are different. If Nalod was a teenager in the 70's/80's, does he really understand the full context of the conflicts for a 22 year old today and right now?

It's not actually a partnership if one side has nearly all the power.

Anyone here, feel free to tell me I'm wrong. Fine, everyone has a different view. All I'll say is look at the people around you. It's not like what I'm saying is some kind of shocking reveal that many of you don't encounter every single day in your neighborhoods, schools, work or whatnot.

A marriage is a relationship between two people it's not a purchase order for sex issued by a man to a woman. When you marry someone you are both making a commitment for life, not till then next diversion comes along.

You are wrong about modern marriage giving women all the power. It's not marriage that gives women power, it's the threat of divorce and the financial and emotional disruption that goes with it. It's the law that allows this to happen. Women are still abused in a lot of marraiges so the law is somewhat one sided. It has good reason to be that way. You think it's an unfair system, but it's that way becasue men have historically abused their spouses to an extent where the laws had to be created to protect them. but a lot of well intentioned laws end up creaing more problems than they solve, and our current framework laws are definitely skewed in favor of women and does not aim to create parity. For this, men have only themselves to blame.

djsunyc wrote:

Wow ...I really should be more careful getting out of bed.

Olbrannon wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

Wow ...I really should be more careful getting out of bed.

doesn't matter. a bus is gonna get ya anyway.

Olbrannon wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Nalod-

Look at those infographics and tell me Marriages are not failing us.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/global-divorce-rates-statistics/

Then there is the cost of raising a child and the cost shown here doen't even include college
https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-average-cost-of-raising-a-child

The median net worth of households between Ages 45-54? $84,542 - The cost of raising the average child is three times the entire net worth of the median family (hald the poulation has even less net worth). You really think debt is not taking hold of married families?
https://www.thebalance.com/american-net-worth-by-state-metropolitan-4135839

These are not signs of an affluent middle class doing well, these are signs of a stealth mode disaster that has been unfolding for the last thirty something years.

Does eem as though this might have wandered just a bit off topic.

True. But it's the off season, there's no basketball going on, what else can we do?