fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:That Realgm poster who broke the Jason Kidd to Bucks thing 2 days before it happened, was claiming that Melo and Pau are going to the Knicks, and that they have trades lined up and will also sign Lebron- ha! Anyone actually believe that crap?!

Melo is definitely up to something- I think the rumour of him going to Miami IF Bosh goes to Houston makes the most sense- otherwise there's no reason for this long delay.

I hope so because just paying Melo $129m like most seem to want is an outright disaster. Its the worst possible scenario actually. I don't even think Melo is that dumb. Phil certainly isnt

guns... nobody *wants* that. Its simply the better alternative to having him walk for nothing. Even if you give him that you can still sign a max guy next offseason. You can still use the draft. You can still make good trades and aquire assets and young players.

Knicks front office was retarded BEFORE Melo got here. Dont blame him for their bad moves. Hell if we dont have Amare and his horrible deal we probably send Bargs and THrj to Phili and Lebron and MElo are Knicks next year. Who knows. The point is paying Melo isnt and shouldnt be the issue.

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:That Realgm poster who broke the Jason Kidd to Bucks thing 2 days before it happened, was claiming that Melo and Pau are going to the Knicks, and that they have trades lined up and will also sign Lebron- ha! Anyone actually believe that crap?!

Melo is definitely up to something- I think the rumour of him going to Miami IF Bosh goes to Houston makes the most sense- otherwise there's no reason for this long delay.

I hope so because just paying Melo $129m like most seem to want is an outright disaster. Its the worst possible scenario actually. I don't even think Melo is that dumb. Phil certainly isnt

I agree- that's the worst case scenario for me. I'd hate to lose him for nothing, but even that is preferable to signing him to that monster contract. Allan Houston mark 2

gunsnewing wrote:

Anji wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Anji wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think you can look at this the same way you interpret the market. Melo can make $129m for the Knicks or $96mil playing for any other team. So if anything the market price is $96m. Knicks would be paying $30m+ above market value. Since we are treating this like the stock market we are getting completely hosed in the deal. I think thats what Bonn meant

That's not being honest, the main reason the Knicks are paying 30 million dollars more as you put it, is because they are locking Melo for a 5th year. 96 million is the market for a 4 year deal.

And the market (using Fish's definition) is for a 4 year deal since that's the most any other team can offer. Maybe you just disagree with his definition.

I don't disagree or agree with anything...and don't call me shirley.

But clearly the real discrepancy between what other teams can offer and what the knicks can is the 5th year. So maybe people who quoting 96 million as their bidding number should look at Phil with hate, since he and the Knicks are really raising the total number above 96 million to the unsightly number of 129. Which, as crush pointed out, is just an extra year with 7% increases.

Lets say it was 4yrs & Melo beomes a free agent? How much do you think Melo is worth in that 5th year at 35? Certainly not $30m right?

From Melo's perspective though, why shouldn't he get what he can earn??? At 34 he isn't getting another max deal. That's why he is a free agent now. I have no problem with that, now it's time for to earn his 12 million.

Bonn1997 wrote:
Well I was exaggerating. I'd pay elite production a high salary even if the guy wasn't the best player in the league. We just disagree in terms of how we rank Melo.

We may differ on his value to the Knicks, but I dont hear you saying he's crap. He's a HOF perennial all star. A scorer. Is he this generation's Wilkins? Or can he be part of a team that fight for a title next few years?

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Anji wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Anji wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think you can look at this the same way you interpret the market. Melo can make $129m for the Knicks or $96mil playing for any other team. So if anything the market price is $96m. Knicks would be paying $30m+ above market value. Since we are treating this like the stock market we are getting completely hosed in the deal. I think thats what Bonn meant

That's not being honest, the main reason the Knicks are paying 30 million dollars more as you put it, is because they are locking Melo for a 5th year. 96 million is the market for a 4 year deal.

And the market (using Fish's definition) is for a 4 year deal since that's the most any other team can offer. Maybe you just disagree with his definition.

I don't disagree or agree with anything...and don't call me shirley.

But clearly the real discrepancy between what other teams can offer and what the knicks can is the 5th year. So maybe people who quoting 96 million as their bidding number should look at Phil with hate, since he and the Knicks are really raising the total number above 96 million to the unsightly number of 129. Which, as crush pointed out, is just an extra year with 7% increases.

Yeah, we're paying above Fish's definition of market value and we're bidding against ourselves by adding that year.

No, we are bidding against better situations. Like LAL where he lives, its the marquee franchise in the league, a huge market... its not bidding against outselves. Cmon dude. Its offering more than the next guy to keep our talent. Is this so hard to understand?

So we have to pay above market value and then compensate him for his lack of attraction to the city?
I'd rather just pay players based on how much their production on the team should be worth. You've gotta produce like at least a top 5 or maybe generously top 10 player if I'm going to make you the highest paid player in the league.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:been saying the same thing for years azamatbagatov. It won't sink in until Melo is sitting on the bench in a suit in the same chair occupied by Mcdyess & Allan Houston and many others with 2-3yrs left on his contract. As the countdown on Melo's days as a knick and his expiring contract begins. We are not getting any younger. 41+ years since our last championship

yep you would think seeing the same thing happen over and over would eventually sink in. The Knicks should get ready for the players coming off rookie deals as their core pieces.Those contracts arent crippling like the super max deals. You can get 3 of those guys and still have room for a couple spare parts.

Yea man.. I mean look at what Will Chandler, Gallo and Mosgov (that equalls about $20mm) have accomplished. Maybe we should avoid all talent that might be expensive? How is Derrick Rose?

You keep your talent. You keep your picks. You keep building. ITs not that hard.

Just say you dont want Melo. You dont like the guy, you would rather suck and be warm and cuddly with hope... why make stuff up about a guys health to make you feel better about not wanting him back.

Fish why do you get insulted if somene is a fraction critical with signing him to a mega deal at his age. i think the bring up some fair ponts. They arent bashing the guy they just are cncerned about the salary cap and potential risks if melo ets hurt which is vey possible in his 30's

Im not insulted at all. Not even a little. I just dont get why guys cant be honest. Why make stuff up? Melo missed 5 games last year. The year before when he did have to rest the shoulder he came back played hurt and I believe was player of the month. I mean a guy misses a couple weeks two years ago and now thats going to end his career prematurely? Thats just not being honest. I mean say his game stinks. Say he's a notch below the other star forwards. But saying its a bad signing because he's going to get hurt in 3 years is silly. It might happen... sure. And Amare might come back and give us 20/10 next year. It could happen.

Melo is certainly polarizing!

What sucks is that since the Melo trade our front office has been so bad its hard to feel warm and fuzzy about the guy, I get it.

I think you are overreacting. Nobody said his games stinks only a fool would say that. Being concerened for a player in his 30's making 23-25 million per yar is a legitimate concern. I think you are a great fan but sometimes i think you confuse being a tad critical of melo/his contract to bashing him.

New to the UK, are you?

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:That Realgm poster who broke the Jason Kidd to Bucks thing 2 days before it happened, was claiming that Melo and Pau are going to the Knicks, and that they have trades lined up and will also sign Lebron- ha! Anyone actually believe that crap?!

Melo is definitely up to something- I think the rumour of him going to Miami IF Bosh goes to Houston makes the most sense- otherwise there's no reason for this long delay.

I hope so because just paying Melo $129m like most seem to want is an outright disaster. Its the worst possible scenario actually. I don't even think Melo is that dumb. Phil certainly isnt

guns... nobody *wants* that. Its simply the better alternative to having him walk for nothing. Even if you give him that you can still sign a max guy next offseason. You can still use the draft. You can still make good trades and aquire assets and young players.

Knicks front office was retarded BEFORE Melo got here. Dont blame him for their bad moves. Hell if we dont have Amare and his horrible deal we probably send Bargs and THrj to Phili and Lebron and MElo are Knicks next year. Who knows. The point is paying Melo isnt and shouldnt be the issue.

How good do you think this team is going to be and how attractive to FAs? I said it looks a little below a .500 team but I don't think you gave your prediction.

sorry I missed this.

I think as curently constructed about 50 wins. Much more like the team two years ago than last years team. There will be more changes but this is good team with Melo back. We needed better guard play and we really upgraded that area. Despite being a rookie I expect great things from Fisher and for Phil to put him in a position to succeed and back him up.

If the season started today I would start:
PG Calderon
SG JR
SF Shump
PF MElo
C Dalembert
bench: Larkin/Amare/THjr/Cole

upside:
contract years for Shump/Amare/Bargs (notice I didnt include Bargs in my rotation. If he contributes great)
We know Larkin is great in the P&R so I bring him and Amare off the bench and get that going. Defense will suck but they will score. Thats a nice bench pop.
JR isnt as good as he was two years ago, but not as bad as last year

Downside: health. Guys break down etc... but we saw two years ago after extablishing a style of play different guys can step in.

Thats what I see. Im sure the metrics hate us but I remember those metrics predictions you posted and they were a joke. Got the Knicks right, and that was about it.

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:That Realgm poster who broke the Jason Kidd to Bucks thing 2 days before it happened, was claiming that Melo and Pau are going to the Knicks, and that they have trades lined up and will also sign Lebron- ha! Anyone actually believe that crap?!

Melo is definitely up to something- I think the rumour of him going to Miami IF Bosh goes to Houston makes the most sense- otherwise there's no reason for this long delay.

I hope so because just paying Melo $129m like most seem to want is an outright disaster. Its the worst possible scenario actually. I don't even think Melo is that dumb. Phil certainly isnt

guns... nobody *wants* that. Its simply the better alternative to having him walk for nothing. Even if you give him that you can still sign a max guy next offseason. You can still use the draft. You can still make good trades and aquire assets and young players.

Knicks front office was retarded BEFORE Melo got here. Dont blame him for their bad moves. Hell if we dont have Amare and his horrible deal we probably send Bargs and THrj to Phili and Lebron and MElo are Knicks next year. Who knows. The point is paying Melo isnt and shouldnt be the issue.

How good do you think this team is going to be and how attractive to FAs? I said it looks a little below a .500 team but I don't think you gave your prediction.

sorry I missed this.

I think as curently constructed about 50 wins. Much more like the team two years ago than last years team. There will be more changes but this is good team with Melo back. We needed better guard play and we really upgraded that area. Despite being a rookie I expect great things from Fisher and for Phil to put him in a position to succeed and back him up.

If the season started today I would start:
PG Calderon
SG JR
SF Shump
PF MElo
C Dalembert
bench: Larkin/Amare/THjr/Cole

upside:
contract years for Shump/Amare/Bargs (notice I didnt include Bargs in my rotation. If he contributes great)
We know Larkin is great in the P&R so I bring him and Amare off the bench and get that going. Defense will suck but they will score. Thats a nice bench pop.
JR isnt as good as he was two years ago, but not as bad as last year

Downside: health. Guys break down etc... but we saw two years ago after extablishing a style of play different guys can step in.

Thats what I see. Im sure the metrics hate us but I remember those metrics predictions you posted and they were a joke. Got the Knicks right, and that was about it.

Read somewhere this morning that Phil might move Bargs if he could but that he sees him as a good fit for the triangle.

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:That Realgm poster who broke the Jason Kidd to Bucks thing 2 days before it happened, was claiming that Melo and Pau are going to the Knicks, and that they have trades lined up and will also sign Lebron- ha! Anyone actually believe that crap?!

Melo is definitely up to something- I think the rumour of him going to Miami IF Bosh goes to Houston makes the most sense- otherwise there's no reason for this long delay.

I hope so because just paying Melo $129m like most seem to want is an outright disaster. Its the worst possible scenario actually. I don't even think Melo is that dumb. Phil certainly isnt

guns... nobody *wants* that. Its simply the better alternative to having him walk for nothing. Even if you give him that you can still sign a max guy next offseason. You can still use the draft. You can still make good trades and aquire assets and young players.

Knicks front office was retarded BEFORE Melo got here. Dont blame him for their bad moves. Hell if we dont have Amare and his horrible deal we probably send Bargs and THrj to Phili and Lebron and MElo are Knicks next year. Who knows. The point is paying Melo isnt and shouldnt be the issue.

How good do you think this team is going to be and how attractive to FAs? I said it looks a little below a .500 team but I don't think you gave your prediction.

sorry I missed this.

I think as curently constructed about 50 wins. Much more like the team two years ago than last years team. There will be more changes but this is good team with Melo back. We needed better guard play and we really upgraded that area. Despite being a rookie I expect great things from Fisher and for Phil to put him in a position to succeed and back him up.

If the season started today I would start:
PG Calderon
SG JR
SF Shump
PF MElo
C Dalembert
bench: Larkin/Amare/THjr/Cole

upside:
contract years for Shump/Amare/Bargs (notice I didnt include Bargs in my rotation. If he contributes great)
We know Larkin is great in the P&R so I bring him and Amare off the bench and get that going. Defense will suck but they will score. Thats a nice bench pop.
JR isnt as good as he was two years ago, but not as bad as last year

Downside: health. Guys break down etc... but we saw two years ago after extablishing a style of play different guys can step in.

Thats what I see. Im sure the metrics hate us but I remember those metrics predictions you posted and they were a joke. Got the Knicks right, and that was about it.

Not sure how that line up wins 50 games. Three of those guys wouldn't be starting on a good team. I think 37-40 wins tops

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:That Realgm poster who broke the Jason Kidd to Bucks thing 2 days before it happened, was claiming that Melo and Pau are going to the Knicks, and that they have trades lined up and will also sign Lebron- ha! Anyone actually believe that crap?!

Melo is definitely up to something- I think the rumour of him going to Miami IF Bosh goes to Houston makes the most sense- otherwise there's no reason for this long delay.

I hope so because just paying Melo $129m like most seem to want is an outright disaster. Its the worst possible scenario actually. I don't even think Melo is that dumb. Phil certainly isnt

guns... nobody *wants* that. Its simply the better alternative to having him walk for nothing. Even if you give him that you can still sign a max guy next offseason. You can still use the draft. You can still make good trades and aquire assets and young players.

Knicks front office was retarded BEFORE Melo got here. Dont blame him for their bad moves. Hell if we dont have Amare and his horrible deal we probably send Bargs and THrj to Phili and Lebron and MElo are Knicks next year. Who knows. The point is paying Melo isnt and shouldnt be the issue.

How good do you think this team is going to be and how attractive to FAs? I said it looks a little below a .500 team but I don't think you gave your prediction.

sorry I missed this.

I think as curently constructed about 50 wins. Much more like the team two years ago than last years team. There will be more changes but this is good team with Melo back. We needed better guard play and we really upgraded that area. Despite being a rookie I expect great things from Fisher and for Phil to put him in a position to succeed and back him up.

If the season started today I would start:
PG Calderon
SG JR
SF Shump
PF MElo
C Dalembert
bench: Larkin/Amare/THjr/Cole

upside:
contract years for Shump/Amare/Bargs (notice I didnt include Bargs in my rotation. If he contributes great)
We know Larkin is great in the P&R so I bring him and Amare off the bench and get that going. Defense will suck but they will score. Thats a nice bench pop.
JR isnt as good as he was two years ago, but not as bad as last year

Downside: health. Guys break down etc... but we saw two years ago after extablishing a style of play different guys can step in.

Thats what I see. Im sure the metrics hate us but I remember those metrics predictions you posted and they were a joke. Got the Knicks right, and that was about it.

Not sure how that line up wins 50 games. Three of those guys wouldn't be starting on a good team. I think 37-40 wins tops

and yet we won 54 games staring Melo/Chandler/Felton and a revolving door of Ronnie Brewer, Shump, Prigs, Kidd, Copeland, James White, KMart and Kurt Thomas. Go figure. Time will tell...

I am interested to see how a little bit of new blood and a system helps this team. I think Melo has shown to be a very stabilizing figure for getting a team to the playoffs minus last season. I think if guys have normal seasons, the knicks win the division again.

fishmike wrote:

Rookie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:That Realgm poster who broke the Jason Kidd to Bucks thing 2 days before it happened, was claiming that Melo and Pau are going to the Knicks, and that they have trades lined up and will also sign Lebron- ha! Anyone actually believe that crap?!

Melo is definitely up to something- I think the rumour of him going to Miami IF Bosh goes to Houston makes the most sense- otherwise there's no reason for this long delay.

I hope so because just paying Melo $129m like most seem to want is an outright disaster. Its the worst possible scenario actually. I don't even think Melo is that dumb. Phil certainly isnt

guns... nobody *wants* that. Its simply the better alternative to having him walk for nothing. Even if you give him that you can still sign a max guy next offseason. You can still use the draft. You can still make good trades and aquire assets and young players.

Knicks front office was retarded BEFORE Melo got here. Dont blame him for their bad moves. Hell if we dont have Amare and his horrible deal we probably send Bargs and THrj to Phili and Lebron and MElo are Knicks next year. Who knows. The point is paying Melo isnt and shouldnt be the issue.

How good do you think this team is going to be and how attractive to FAs? I said it looks a little below a .500 team but I don't think you gave your prediction.

sorry I missed this.

I think as curently constructed about 50 wins. Much more like the team two years ago than last years team. There will be more changes but this is good team with Melo back. We needed better guard play and we really upgraded that area. Despite being a rookie I expect great things from Fisher and for Phil to put him in a position to succeed and back him up.

If the season started today I would start:
PG Calderon
SG JR
SF Shump
PF MElo
C Dalembert
bench: Larkin/Amare/THjr/Cole

upside:
contract years for Shump/Amare/Bargs (notice I didnt include Bargs in my rotation. If he contributes great)
We know Larkin is great in the P&R so I bring him and Amare off the bench and get that going. Defense will suck but they will score. Thats a nice bench pop.
JR isnt as good as he was two years ago, but not as bad as last year

Downside: health. Guys break down etc... but we saw two years ago after extablishing a style of play different guys can step in.

Thats what I see. Im sure the metrics hate us but I remember those metrics predictions you posted and they were a joke. Got the Knicks right, and that was about it.

Not sure how that line up wins 50 games. Three of those guys wouldn't be starting on a good team. I think 37-40 wins tops

and yet we won 54 games staring Melo/Chandler/Felton and a revolving door of Ronnie Brewer, Shump, Prigs, Kidd, Copeland, James White, KMart and Kurt Thomas. Go figure. Time will tell...

honestly, I don't think Melo resigns w/that line up. One of the few Melo quotes we have in the offseason is that he doesn't war to go through another 37 win season