fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:By the way...I'll take 29 pts 8 Rebs on 43% shooting From Melo any day of the week as he did in the Series...

so would you take his 27/11/ and only one assist on 35% shooting in game 1 which we lost.. 28 shots ? wow

how about his 21/5/ and yet again ONE assist stinker shooting 37% in another loss.. game 3.. knicks scored 71 points.. I thought having a superstar and scoring champion was supposed to avoid the knicks from having games like this?

or how about the pivotal game 4. knicks in danger falling down 3-1.. carmelo shows up with 24/9/ and yes, yet again ONE assist.. rofl... and oh. he shot 39%

so you can post that 43% because he had one or two games that help bring that horrible average up, but in the games his team needed him to be a star.. he wasn't.. he isn't.. plain and simple..

so I ask you.. is this what you really want?

Tell the whole story why don't u:

Game 2: 32pts 9reb 3 ast on 50% shooting
Game 5: 28pts 6 reb 0 asst on 43% shooting
Game 6: 39 pts 7 reb 2 asst on 53% shooting...

Anyone can post the worst games of any player from any series..By the way, that's how averages work..U add all the numbers, just not the bad...

Don't you get it? Only melo's bad games count- you have to ignore/ refuse to acknowledge any good games or achievements.

if they counted for double you would be onto to something. Why are the homers in total denial? Holfresh mentioned KG, a notorious one and done playoff guy. Compare his stats vs playoffs. He's just as good. Now compare Melo's. Melo goes from a reasonable 45% shooting (for a volume scorer) to Jamal Crawford in the playoffs. Does he suck? No. Does he choke? No. Does he get exposed? Every year.

Playing the Knicks:
Pack the middle and bottle up the middle. Commit your bigs to protecting the basket, especially when Melo has the ball and you will win EVERY playoff series against the Knicks. Why? Because if you take away the paint from Melo he will take his shots elsewhere. And yes.. there will be games he lights it up because he's damn good. And those will be followed by games he shoot 10-30. 10 years of evidence and the excuses continue.

Its laughable.

I dont even hate the guy. He's a great player. I 100% agree with ESPN. Top 15 for sure, and probably top 10, but the holes in his game ad his refusal to change his approach will ensure the same thing happens every year.

So please... MElo apologists, holfresh, etc.. please tell me which parts Im wrong about

And I'm fine with criticism of him- I prefer defensive players! It's just when people refuse to acknowledge ANY positives about him and make out he's one of, if not THE worst players in the league. That's just daft.

Nah, no one is saying that.. the problem with you melo defenders is that he is either a superstar, top 5 or he's hated on..

can you just accept that he is a decent all around player, good streak, volume shooter/ scorer, and most likely nothing more than that? does that make him bad.. NO. there is a place for guys like him in the Nba, but it doesn't make him great, doesn't make him a star and doesn't make him worthy to hand the keys to the franchise over to....

that is where I stand..

Even people that dislike him consider him better than decent and better than just a streaky scorer. He scores 25 plus every game and every season. I have never seen just a streaky scorer that can do that. He is a GREAT scorer, one of the best in the league who lacks in other departments. Whether the great aspects far override the weak areas are up to interpretation and if he is an nba star.

his scoring is inefficient. inefficient volume scorers undermine winning and also exhaust teammates. if he were a great scorer he would be doing so at a better than 58%TS clip. he has never done that and is sub-par in all other aspects of the game, which make his scoring empty calories. if you take more than 18 shots a game there is something wrong, unless you are doing other things to earn the right to do so.

and yet despite all this and the fact that hes been on good teams but never great teams he leads his team to 50ish wins every year. Somewhere your theory has holes in it. David Lee was a TS% freak. So why didnt Lee lead us to more than 30 wins?

He's enough of a star to build a 50ish win playoff team around every year, but the holes in his game will always keep him from being able to grind out playoff wins. He needs a #1 if we want to compete for a title. Thats where I stand

is the level of opponent higher in the playoffs-- especially beyond the <meh> first round, or the same as the regular season? of course the question is rhetorical... and i am not directing the query to you alone. so far as lee is concerned, can we agree that the knick teams he played for were just a notch or two lower in terms of talent? and i recall his last two years here were pure, unadulterated roster flush.

it is indeed.. and Melo has shown his talent is high enough to get a team to the playoffs every year. Has Melo ever missed the playoffs since joining the NBA? Yet all his teams have also undergone many many roster flushes of their own, yet one thing remains... Melo's team win about 50 games regardless of whos on the roster, and that alone is a very clear indication of his talent and skills and how they directly translate into NBA wins. You would have us believe Melo is Al Harrington who just takes more shots, and that is just as disingenuous as the 'homers' who think Melo's a superstar and his playoff failures have nothing to do with his poor play in the post season.

as i said, the first round is <meh> so his having gotten to the first round is also <meh>. had he been able to get to the second round regularly, that would actually mean something. i know... my detractors feel i have been moving the goalposts... but i have maintained this standard all along. the playoffs reward mediocrity, which is what happens when half the league gets in. a bloated league with too many teams and a diluted talent pool. the smart players will try to get better... melo hasn't. the snart players will try to find situations that will best suit that players actual sense of his value to a team... melo hasn't.

being good enough to get in every year means something. It meant something that Melo got the Nugs there ever year. It meant something that KG got the Wolves there every year, and not being good enough to beat one of the top 4 teams in your conference isnt <meh> it means the team isnt good enough.

I agree... Melo isnt the smartest. His approach works in the regular season and doest stand up against the NBA's elite teams. Doesnt take away from the fact that the guy is talented to get a team thats otherwise pretty average there year after year, and that IS a noteworthy achievement and a fair measure of one's impact on his team. Melo is a high impact player. Pretend he's not and your credibility ends there.

He needs another stud to compete for a title and take the next step. Can and will MSG find that guy? That being said 3 years later Will Chandler, Gallo, Mos, etc etc dont sniff the impact that Melo has on a game. Plain and simple.

yet they have not missed the playoffs since being in denver while posting a franchise high 57 wins...

what impact are you talking about fish.. what impact does melo have on a game.. I keep hearing that but he has been subpar in the playoffs... I am asking why do you and others attribute him "carrying a team to the playoffs" yet he needs another player to take the next step? wouldn't it be fair to say that if he can actually play at a higher level in the playoffs.. how is getting another stud player going to increase his production? getting such a player is going to require that he takes a back seat, take less shots.. do you know what kind of player you will have then? it takes carmelo 22 shots to get 28ppg..

if he took 17 shots per game, at 44% that will put his average around 19-20ppg counting in FT's and his shooting percentage from the line...

so now you have a guy at 19ppg who doesn't pass or defend.. do you think that is a championship worthy #2 guy? I don't think so..

this is what you are faced with having a guy like this on your team..

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:
Nah, no one is saying that.. the problem with you melo defenders is that he is either a superstar, top 5 or he's hated on..

can you just accept that he is a decent all around player, good streak, volume shooter/ scorer, and most likely nothing more than that? does that make him bad.. NO. there is a place for guys like him in the Nba, but it doesn't make him great, doesn't make him a star and doesn't make him worthy to hand the keys to the franchise over to....

that is where I stand..

As foosballnick pointed out, that's not exactly how your posts have read these past few years! I actually agree with the gist of your post here- I think Melo is a better scorer than you give him credit for, but I have my reservations whether he is a championship level player until he actually beasts in the playoffs for us (though, to be fair his Knick teammates have been riddled with injuries in the playoff the past 3 times). I'd rather he played like he did at the start of last year than he did after that.

I think what gets lost in the ongoing melo debate, is that some of you talk as though we had a choice between Melo, Lebron, CP3 and Durant, and chose Melo. People are in for a rude awakening in 2015- it is so hard to sign elite players as free agents nowadays. When even Favors is getting locked up the year before he's a FA, it really makes me wonder who will actually be available, and then who will actually want to sign with us.

read my last post.. carmlo takes 22 shots per game to get 28 points. that is not good... lets say we had kobe on this team.. well kobe takes 20 shots.. really there isn't enough balls to go around.. if carmelo lets say dropped to 18 shots per.. do you understand you would have a 18-20ppg scorer? how good is that.. efficiency matters, carmelo only scores a lot of points because he takes a lot of shots... thats it!

Barkley floated around the NBA trying to find help. We could go on all day...

Melo's a 3. He's no a PG. He's not a center. He's a scoring wing. Yes Durant is better, and probably the best in the league.

TFK.. Melo averaged 29ppg on 22 shots, shot 45% and added 7 rebs and 2.5 assists on a team that won 50+ game. Go look at that roster last year and please explain to me how you can poopoo his impact.

Ive been pretty <meh> on Melo since he got here, but he played his ass off last year and absolutely carried the Knicks to WINS. Yes he's easy to defend in the playoffs when he's facing elite teams, but even with MElo's crap games in the playoffs we should have been in the ECF if JR doesnt shoot 20% and Chandler doesnt make Hibbert look like Hakeem.

Has Melo made me a fanboy? I could care less. I want to see the Knicks win a title with or without him. Watching him last year it was pretty clear he's more than a volume shooter who gets 30 points on 30 shots. You need the other player. Not to take Melo's shots. To take JRs, Shumps, Feltons and the other guys are cast offs from other teams the Knicks are all hoping magically become stars.

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:By the way...I'll take 29 pts 8 Rebs on 43% shooting From Melo any day of the week as he did in the Series...

so would you take his 27/11/ and only one assist on 35% shooting in game 1 which we lost.. 28 shots ? wow

how about his 21/5/ and yet again ONE assist stinker shooting 37% in another loss.. game 3.. knicks scored 71 points.. I thought having a superstar and scoring champion was supposed to avoid the knicks from having games like this?

or how about the pivotal game 4. knicks in danger falling down 3-1.. carmelo shows up with 24/9/ and yes, yet again ONE assist.. rofl... and oh. he shot 39%

so you can post that 43% because he had one or two games that help bring that horrible average up, but in the games his team needed him to be a star.. he wasn't.. he isn't.. plain and simple..

so I ask you.. is this what you really want?

Tell the whole story why don't u:

Game 2: 32pts 9reb 3 ast on 50% shooting
Game 5: 28pts 6 reb 0 asst on 43% shooting
Game 6: 39 pts 7 reb 2 asst on 53% shooting...

Anyone can post the worst games of any player from any series..By the way, that's how averages work..U add all the numbers, just not the bad...

Don't you get it? Only melo's bad games count- you have to ignore/ refuse to acknowledge any good games or achievements.

if they counted for double you would be onto to something. Why are the homers in total denial? Holfresh mentioned KG, a notorious one and done playoff guy. Compare his stats vs playoffs. He's just as good. Now compare Melo's. Melo goes from a reasonable 45% shooting (for a volume scorer) to Jamal Crawford in the playoffs. Does he suck? No. Does he choke? No. Does he get exposed? Every year.

Playing the Knicks:
Pack the middle and bottle up the middle. Commit your bigs to protecting the basket, especially when Melo has the ball and you will win EVERY playoff series against the Knicks. Why? Because if you take away the paint from Melo he will take his shots elsewhere. And yes.. there will be games he lights it up because he's damn good. And those will be followed by games he shoot 10-30. 10 years of evidence and the excuses continue.

Its laughable.

I dont even hate the guy. He's a great player. I 100% agree with ESPN. Top 15 for sure, and probably top 10, but the holes in his game ad his refusal to change his approach will ensure the same thing happens every year.

So please... MElo apologists, holfresh, etc.. please tell me which parts Im wrong about

And I'm fine with criticism of him- I prefer defensive players! It's just when people refuse to acknowledge ANY positives about him and make out he's one of, if not THE worst players in the league. That's just daft.

Nah, no one is saying that.. the problem with you melo defenders is that he is either a superstar, top 5 or he's hated on..

can you just accept that he is a decent all around player, good streak, volume shooter/ scorer, and most likely nothing more than that? does that make him bad.. NO. there is a place for guys like him in the Nba, but it doesn't make him great, doesn't make him a star and doesn't make him worthy to hand the keys to the franchise over to....

that is where I stand..

Even people that dislike him consider him better than decent and better than just a streaky scorer. He scores 25 plus every game and every season. I have never seen just a streaky scorer that can do that. He is a GREAT scorer, one of the best in the league who lacks in other departments. Whether the great aspects far override the weak areas are up to interpretation and if he is an nba star.

his scoring is inefficient. inefficient volume scorers undermine winning and also exhaust teammates. if he were a great scorer he would be doing so at a better than 58%TS clip. he has never done that and is sub-par in all other aspects of the game, which make his scoring empty calories. if you take more than 18 shots a game there is something wrong, unless you are doing other things to earn the right to do so.

and yet despite all this and the fact that hes been on good teams but never great teams he leads his team to 50ish wins every year. Somewhere your theory has holes in it. David Lee was a TS% freak. So why didnt Lee lead us to more than 30 wins?

He's enough of a star to build a 50ish win playoff team around every year, but the holes in his game will always keep him from being able to grind out playoff wins. He needs a #1 if we want to compete for a title. Thats where I stand

is the level of opponent higher in the playoffs-- especially beyond the <meh> first round, or the same as the regular season? of course the question is rhetorical... and i am not directing the query to you alone. so far as lee is concerned, can we agree that the knick teams he played for were just a notch or two lower in terms of talent? and i recall his last two years here were pure, unadulterated roster flush.

it is indeed.. and Melo has shown his talent is high enough to get a team to the playoffs every year. Has Melo ever missed the playoffs since joining the NBA? Yet all his teams have also undergone many many roster flushes of their own, yet one thing remains... Melo's team win about 50 games regardless of whos on the roster, and that alone is a very clear indication of his talent and skills and how they directly translate into NBA wins. You would have us believe Melo is Al Harrington who just takes more shots, and that is just as disingenuous as the 'homers' who think Melo's a superstar and his playoff failures have nothing to do with his poor play in the post season.

as i said, the first round is <meh> so his having gotten to the first round is also <meh>. had he been able to get to the second round regularly, that would actually mean something. i know... my detractors feel i have been moving the goalposts... but i have maintained this standard all along. the playoffs reward mediocrity, which is what happens when half the league gets in. a bloated league with too many teams and a diluted talent pool. the smart players will try to get better... melo hasn't. the snart players will try to find situations that will best suit that players actual sense of his value to a team... melo hasn't.

being good enough to get in every year means something. It meant something that Melo got the Nugs there ever year. It meant something that KG got the Wolves there every year, and not being good enough to beat one of the top 4 teams in your conference isnt <meh> it means the team isnt good enough.

I agree... Melo isnt the smartest. His approach works in the regular season and doest stand up against the NBA's elite teams. Doesnt take away from the fact that the guy is talented to get a team thats otherwise pretty average there year after year, and that IS a noteworthy achievement and a fair measure of one's impact on his team. Melo is a high impact player. Pretend he's not and your credibility ends there.

He needs another stud to compete for a title and take the next step. Can and will MSG find that guy? That being said 3 years later Will Chandler, Gallo, Mos, etc etc dont sniff the impact that Melo has on a game. Plain and simple.

yet they have not missed the playoffs since being in denver while posting a franchise high 57 wins...

what impact are you talking about fish.. what impact does melo have on a game.. I keep hearing that but he has been subpar in the playoffs... I am asking why do you and others attribute him "carrying a team to the playoffs" yet he needs another player to take the next step? wouldn't it be fair to say that if he can actually play at a higher level in the playoffs.. how is getting another stud player going to increase his production? getting such a player is going to require that he takes a back seat, take less shots.. do you know what kind of player you will have then? it takes carmelo 22 shots to get 28ppg..

if he took 17 shots per game, at 44% that will put his average around 19-20ppg counting in FT's and his shooting percentage from the line...

so now you have a guy at 19ppg who doesn't pass or defend.. do you think that is a championship worthy #2 guy? I don't think so..

this is what you are faced with having a guy like this on your team..

did Denver get value for Melo? We gave them good players. None as good as Melo, but good players. Its not like Melo was removed and they were just as good. They got good players and a ton of flexibility. They also drafted really well and have had players improve.

Honestly.. look at the Knicks roster, look at the guys who got minutes last year. You take Melo off the that team its a 30 win season.

And for the other player thing... one player isnt enough. We have one pony. Its Melo. We were supposed to have two but Amare is broken. We have never had a chance to really see them together. Lebron left Mia to play with two guys. Durant has two. The only year Dirk won the team was loaded, healthy and guys (Chandler) had career years.

Melo shoots too much. He always has. However when he had a loaded team Denver when to the WCF. When Iverson took more shots than Melo he had his best year shooting the ball ever.

Who on the Knicks should be getting Melo's shots? JR? Shump? Felton?

Bill Simmon's article in the other thread mentions how Melo has those 3 weeks streaks where he's epic. Do you not remember him scoring 30 a row forever AND the Knicks winning most of those games? I know you hate him and thats fine, but he's good and enough of those buckets go in win games. Kobe called him the hardest guy in the league to defend. It counts.

oK, fish, so basically what you are telling me, is that WE traded them 3 young good players.. they then drafted a couple of guys, not with lottery picks may I remind you, and guess what... they have had more wins than the knicks since the trade... so again, what is so special about carmelo " carrying the weight of the franchise on his back" as many put it, when you could have done the same by keeping your young talent, and making the same draft picks?

Again, is it really carmelo carrying these teams, or the teams may have been a little better than given credit for....

It is easy to say take carmelo off last years team and they win 30 games.. well of course, because there will be a 20 million dollar hole of players to fill.. but take carmelo off, take his 20 mil, add a couple of players with that money and guess what fish? knicks would still be a Playoff team.....

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:
Nah, no one is saying that.. the problem with you melo defenders is that he is either a superstar, top 5 or he's hated on..

can you just accept that he is a decent all around player, good streak, volume shooter/ scorer, and most likely nothing more than that? does that make him bad.. NO. there is a place for guys like him in the Nba, but it doesn't make him great, doesn't make him a star and doesn't make him worthy to hand the keys to the franchise over to....

that is where I stand..

As foosballnick pointed out, that's not exactly how your posts have read these past few years! I actually agree with the gist of your post here- I think Melo is a better scorer than you give him credit for, but I have my reservations whether he is a championship level player until he actually beasts in the playoffs for us (though, to be fair his Knick teammates have been riddled with injuries in the playoff the past 3 times). I'd rather he played like he did at the start of last year than he did after that.

I think what gets lost in the ongoing melo debate, is that some of you talk as though we had a choice between Melo, Lebron, CP3 and Durant, and chose Melo. People are in for a rude awakening in 2015- it is so hard to sign elite players as free agents nowadays. When even Favors is getting locked up the year before he's a FA, it really makes me wonder who will actually be available, and then who will actually want to sign with us.

read my last post.. carmlo takes 22 shots per game to get 28 points. that is not good... lets say we had kobe on this team.. well kobe takes 20 shots.. really there isn't enough balls to go around.. if carmelo lets say dropped to 18 shots per.. do you understand you would have a 18-20ppg scorer? how good is that.. efficiency matters, carmelo only scores a lot of points because he takes a lot of shots... thats it!

So if Denver was good because of Karl's coaching why did he let Melo go out and shoot it so much? Melo is inconsistent.. bigtime. Its my #1 knock on him.

Melo shot too much last year? OK... who should have take more shots? Novak?

Ive said it 100 times. Look at the year Iverson took more shots then Melo (only time its ever happened on a Melo team). He average 25ppg on 49% and took 19 shots.

49%... there it is man.

You want to see Melo shoot less? Agree... go find a scorer worth sharing the ball. Until that happens the arguement is moot. He's shared the ball before and his stats reflect very positively. Dude's got holes in his game. I get it. Jamal Crawford scored 20 a game for the Knicks because he shot a ton. Im sorry you dont see the value, but its there. After last year there is no doubt in my head he's top 10. Top 5? No.. but top 10 yes.

it does show how good of a coach Karl was, he won despite melo chucking up a lot of shots... I am not sure Karl was ok with letting him do that, but then again, we see what happened to coach's who don't let carmelo have his way.. You get a disgruntled donkey.. Karl showed he can coach around that.. unfortunately he had to..

Melo shot too much last year? OK... who should have take more shots? Novak?

yes, I want novak taking some more shots if we can get them for him.. because he is a much better shooter.. why not? This is a team game fish, the key is to capitalize on everyone's strength..

Tell me, how did we score points when both carmelo and Amare were out and we had LIn, jeffries, novak, shump and chandler?

If you or anyone on this site don't think any of these guys are capable then how can you feel the knicks are a contender? please don't tell me because of carmelo anthony? LOL..

BTW:during that jeremy Lin run, novak posted a few games where he went 7-10, 6-10, 5-11, hell yea, I wanted him to shoot more.. his shooting opened up the floor for guys like lin, and shumpert, and chandler.. even jeffries looked offensively competent... This is what happens when guys are playing with and for each other..

This mess we have now is a joke....and I call it a mess because this team IMO as build has no chance in hell at beating any of the better teams in the east...not even close, yet again, we have the most expensive frontcourt in NBA history.

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:The same old points rehashed again and again...

It's like Groundhog day here.

Once again, if Melo had a healthy 1 or 1a(I don't care anymore if Melo is Batman, Robin, or the Joker) this point would all be moot.

Fishmike makes great points with Iverson/Billups being the alpha or 2nd option. Melo never had it here in NY. Amare never panned out.

He needs that other player, so he doesn't have to carry the load.

His running mate last season was JR phucking Smith for chrissakes!

carry the load, he does have other players... he only shoots a lot because that is all he can do.. tha is his flaw...

Having lebron or wade or durant on the same team is not going to make his aim better.. it won't make him a better defender....

why is that so hard to understand?

LOL who is the other player? Amare hasn't played close to a full season since he's been with the Knicks. Chandler just finally worked on his jumper this offseason.

Fishmike already alluded to the seasons when Melo was a point or 2 from 50% with true running mates in Denver, so there goes your shooting argument.

He's not the best defender, everyone knows that. For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure he outscores his opposing player almost every night(usually by a wide margin) so that point is also moot. As far as the Knicks concerned, he's not the weak link on the team. It's always been the frontcourt.

So again, the main point of emphasis is this.

Who is Melo's (true) running mate in NY? Who is this phantom all star you're alluding to?

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:The same old points rehashed again and again...

It's like Groundhog day here.

Once again, if Melo had a healthy 1 or 1a(I don't care anymore if Melo is Batman, Robin, or the Joker) this point would all be moot.

Fishmike makes great points with Iverson/Billups being the alpha or 2nd option. Melo never had it here in NY. Amare never panned out.

He needs that other player, so he doesn't have to carry the load.

His running mate last season was JR phucking Smith for chrissakes!

carry the load, he does have other players... he only shoots a lot because that is all he can do.. tha is his flaw...

Having lebron or wade or durant on the same team is not going to make his aim better.. it won't make him a better defender....

why is that so hard to understand?

LOL who is the other player? Amare hasn't played close to a full season since he's been with the Knicks. Chandler just finally worked on his jumper this offseason.

Fishmike already alluded to the seasons when Melo was a point or 2 from 50% with true running mates in Denver, so there goes your shooting argument.

He's not the best defender, everyone knows that. For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure he outscores his opposing player almost every night(usually by a wide margin) so that point is also moot. As far as the Knicks concerned, he's not the weak link on the team. It's always been the frontcourt.

So again, the main point of emphasis is this.

Who is Melo's (true) running mate in NY? Who is this phantom all star you're alluding to?

he could have had a better team in new york from day 1 if he had kept his mouth shut in denver. once he fulfilled his contractual obligations to denver that would have been that. denver would have been hung out to dry because melo would not have signed anything more than a one-year deal with any other team before bolting. as it is he is that rare gem of a human being who decided to enrich the team he was leaving and decimating the team he was going to. what a dummy-- the knicks have been trying to rebuild ever since, they have seen their ceiling and meanwhile the clock is ticking.

Vmart wrote:I don't know if you guys have figured it out or not. But every team that has won a championship has had a player that is one or two option shoot 50% or over. The Knicks currently do not have that Chandler is not a 2nd option. Melo would really benefit from a big that shoots 50% and is the second option or first. Detroit might have been the only team in recent years to win a championship without a 50% shooter of course discount Ben Wallace, but their defense was lock tight. Lakers had Shaq with Kobe. Miami Wade, Shaq first championship. LeBron, Wade and Bosh. Spurs had Duncan, Parker, Robinson. Bulls had Jordan and Pippen. You want to go back to the old Lakers Jabbar, Magic. Sixers had Moses and Dr. J. Celtics McHale and Bird.

I know Amare is suppose to be that guy but he is done, adding Brags did nothing to enhance the 50% FG mark. They badly need a first or second option shooting 50%+.

For instance, Dirk doesnt win a title if he didnt post double digit rebounds in the finals on top of efficient offense.

But even to cement your point to which i agree 100%, those other guys could have scored and done little else, but they know how to IMPACT the game.

Quite a few of them do at least three different skills effectively including scoring.

If Melo is gonna post 40% shooting in the playoffs as a Knick injured or not, then other aspects must be employed from him, because that is not acceptable, nor is it winning component.

knickscity wrote:

Vmart wrote:I don't know if you guys have figured it out or not. But every team that has won a championship has had a player that is one or two option shoot 50% or over. The Knicks currently do not have that Chandler is not a 2nd option. Melo would really benefit from a big that shoots 50% and is the second option or first. Detroit might have been the only team in recent years to win a championship without a 50% shooter of course discount Ben Wallace, but their defense was lock tight. Lakers had Shaq with Kobe. Miami Wade, Shaq first championship. LeBron, Wade and Bosh. Spurs had Duncan, Parker, Robinson. Bulls had Jordan and Pippen. You want to go back to the old Lakers Jabbar, Magic. Sixers had Moses and Dr. J. Celtics McHale and Bird.

I know Amare is suppose to be that guy but he is done, adding Brags did nothing to enhance the 50% FG mark. They badly need a first or second option shooting 50%+.

It isnt even just accurate shooting, it's also those same players raise their level of play in other areas as well.

For instance, Dirk doesnt win a title if he didnt post double digit rebounds in the finals on top of efficient offense.

But even to cement your point to which i agree 100%, those other guys could have scored and done little else, but they know how to IMPACT the game.

Quite a few of them do at least three different skills effectively including scoring.

If Melo is gonna post 40% shooting in the playoffs as a Knick injured or not, then other aspects must be employed from him, because that is not acceptable, nor is it winning component.

I agree with this 100%.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:The same old points rehashed again and again...

It's like Groundhog day here.

Once again, if Melo had a healthy 1 or 1a(I don't care anymore if Melo is Batman, Robin, or the Joker) this point would all be moot.

Fishmike makes great points with Iverson/Billups being the alpha or 2nd option. Melo never had it here in NY. Amare never panned out.

He needs that other player, so he doesn't have to carry the load.

His running mate last season was JR phucking Smith for chrissakes!

carry the load, he does have other players... he only shoots a lot because that is all he can do.. tha is his flaw...

Having lebron or wade or durant on the same team is not going to make his aim better.. it won't make him a better defender....

why is that so hard to understand?

because the evidence dispells your point man. When Melo was the #2 shot taker he shot 50%. When Billups was still a force they went to the WCF finals.

So yea.. if Lebron or another great player was here his aim WOULD improve and the past has pretty clearly shown this. I think I understand it pretty well... The better Melo's teams have been the better he has been also.

Did you watch Novak his last year here? He shot well next to Lin because he was open. He was terrible before we sent him packing and Novak's defense make's Melo look like Artest it was so laughable. So I see your arguement falling short here sorry. Way short

When was Melo ever the #2 shot-taker?
Even in that 1 post-season when Billups carried the team, he (Billups) only took 12 shots a game. He was insanely productive though - 21 PPG off of just 12 shots.