Knixkik wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Know what else is funny? Pretty much all of the big names that's moved since 2010 outside of Lebron everyone, none have put their teams into contention...once traded.

Dwight upon trade...first round KO.....same with Deron Williams.

Chris Paul got knocked out in the first round this season, second round last year.

James Harden?....First round fodder.

Even the options aren't getting it done.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Believe it or not it was suggested earlier in this thread that he might give a hometown discount. Also, of everyone suggesting we had all these options, no one could name specific ones. Nash was the only one I could think of. We weren't getting cp3, Dwight, or harden. Could have had Dwill via trade instead of Melo but we know that wouldn't have helped. The grass isn't always Greener.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Believe it or not it was suggested earlier in this thread that he might give a hometown discount. Also, of everyone suggesting we had all these options, no one could name specific ones. Nash was the only one I could think of. We weren't getting cp3, Dwight, or harden. Could have had Dwill via trade instead of Melo but we know that wouldn't have helped. The grass isn't always Greener.

What do you mean no one could name specific ones? I've written many times about what I wanted the team to do. Of course I can't say for sure what trade proposals other teams would agree to though.

What it comes down to is no one can name any available players or scenarios that could have happened that put us in better position then we are today. At least nothing realistic. It's easy to say something else is better because people think the grass is always greener. But nothing specific.

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Believe it or not it was suggested earlier in this thread that he might give a hometown discount. Also, of everyone suggesting we had all these options, no one could name specific ones. Nash was the only one I could think of. We weren't getting cp3, Dwight, or harden. Could have had Dwill via trade instead of Melo but we know that wouldn't have helped. The grass isn't always Greener.

What do you mean no one could name specific ones? I've written many times about what I wanted the team to do. Of course I can't say for sure what trade proposals other teams would agree to though.

What it comes down to is no one can name any available players or scenarios that could have happened that put us in better position then we are today. At least nothing realistic. It's easy to say something else is better because people think the grass is always greener. But nothing specific.

What it comes down to you is you're being ridiculous. Of course, I can't say what teams would accept what offers. I wanted to build as many assets as possible from the day Lebron et al. turned us down and I do believe we could have made a strong offer for Harden. If we were turned down, then we'd keep rebuilding. Morey's showing that you can tear it down and rebuild and still stay around .550 or better if you use the right analytics. It's not like we would have suffered through something worse than what we have now anyway.

I just don't see how we win 54 games and a playoff series otherwise. But if the plan is to hang around .500 until a deal for a harden comes up, then compete with the rest of the league to acquire that player then that's not something I would enjoy, but we all have our opinions.

knickscity wrote:

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tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

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Bonn1997 wrote:

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dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Believe it or not it was suggested earlier in this thread that he might give a hometown discount. Also, of everyone suggesting we had all these options, no one could name specific ones. Nash was the only one I could think of. We weren't getting cp3, Dwight, or harden. Could have had Dwill via trade instead of Melo but we know that wouldn't have helped. The grass isn't always Greener.

What do you mean no one could name specific ones? I've written many times about what I wanted the team to do. Of course I can't say for sure what trade proposals other teams would agree to though.

What it comes down to is no one can name any available players or scenarios that could have happened that put us in better position then we are today. At least nothing realistic. It's easy to say something else is better because people think the grass is always greener. But nothing specific.

What it comes down to you is you're being ridiculous. Of course, I can't say what teams would accept what offers. I wanted to build as many assets as possible from the day Lebron et al. turned us down and I do believe we could have made a strong offer for Harden. If we were turned down, then we'd keep rebuilding. Morey's showing that you can tear it down and rebuild and still stay around .550 or better if you use the right analytics. It's not like we would have suffered through something worse than what we have now anyway.

I really dont think the Knicks can eve compete with the Harden deal.

OKC received a nice expirer and a lotto pick.

But meanwhile through this "rebuilding" I'd aaume the team would still be led with amare in a suit more than jersey.

No way the Knicks would have stood pat, if anything we probably would have been the idiots stuck with Bynum.

Hell no. I'm describing what direction I wanted the team to go in once it was clear Lebron and Wade turned us down. And from the beginning, I was saying no to Amare.

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

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Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

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tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Believe it or not it was suggested earlier in this thread that he might give a hometown discount. Also, of everyone suggesting we had all these options, no one could name specific ones. Nash was the only one I could think of. We weren't getting cp3, Dwight, or harden. Could have had Dwill via trade instead of Melo but we know that wouldn't have helped. The grass isn't always Greener.

What do you mean no one could name specific ones? I've written many times about what I wanted the team to do. Of course I can't say for sure what trade proposals other teams would agree to though.

What it comes down to is no one can name any available players or scenarios that could have happened that put us in better position then we are today. At least nothing realistic. It's easy to say something else is better because people think the grass is always greener. But nothing specific.

What it comes down to you is you're being ridiculous. Of course, I can't say what teams would accept what offers. I wanted to build as many assets as possible from the day Lebron et al. turned us down and I do believe we could have made a strong offer for Harden. If we were turned down, then we'd keep rebuilding. Morey's showing that you can tear it down and rebuild and still stay around .550 or better if you use the right analytics. It's not like we would have suffered through something worse than what we have now anyway.

I really dont think the Knicks can eve compete with the Harden deal.

OKC received a nice expirer and a lotto pick.

But meanwhile through this "rebuilding" I'd aaume the team would still be led with amare in a suit more than jersey.

No way the Knicks would have stood pat, if anything we probably would have been the idiots stuck with Bynum.

Hell no. I'm describing what direction I wanted the team to go in once it was clear Lebron and Wade turned us down. And from the beginning, I was saying no to Amare.

Ok, so now i get it.

So essentially with no Lebron you stand pat....cool.

So what do you do when the losses pile up, keep in mind this was a 23 win teams before 2010, those assets dont like like much with all that losing.

Also keep in mind that Walsh gave away the 2011 (rights to swap) and the 2012 picks.

Assuming you stand pat as you say, you perfectly ok with handing them two lotto picks?

Knixkik wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Believe it or not it was suggested earlier in this thread that he might give a hometown discount. Also, of everyone suggesting we had all these options, no one could name specific ones. Nash was the only one I could think of. We weren't getting cp3, Dwight, or harden. Could have had Dwill via trade instead of Melo but we know that wouldn't have helped. The grass isn't always Greener.

What do you mean no one could name specific ones? I've written many times about what I wanted the team to do. Of course I can't say for sure what trade proposals other teams would agree to though.

What it comes down to is no one can name any available players or scenarios that could have happened that put us in better position then we are today. At least nothing realistic. It's easy to say something else is better because people think the grass is always greener. But nothing specific.

What it comes down to you is you're being ridiculous. Of course, I can't say what teams would accept what offers. I wanted to build as many assets as possible from the day Lebron et al. turned us down and I do believe we could have made a strong offer for Harden. If we were turned down, then we'd keep rebuilding. Morey's showing that you can tear it down and rebuild and still stay around .550 or better if you use the right analytics. It's not like we would have suffered through something worse than what we have now anyway.

I really dont think the Knicks can eve compete with the Harden deal.

OKC received a nice expirer and a lotto pick.

But meanwhile through this "rebuilding" I'd aaume the team would still be led with amare in a suit more than jersey.

No way the Knicks would have stood pat, if anything we probably would have been the idiots stuck with Bynum.

Hell no. I'm describing what direction I wanted the team to go in once it was clear Lebron and Wade turned us down. And from the beginning, I was saying no to Amare.

Ok, so now i get it.

So essentially with no Lebron you stand pat....cool.

So what do you do when the losses pile up, keep in mind this was a 23 win teams before 2010, those assets dont like like much with all that losing.

Also keep in mind that Walsh gave away the 2011 (rights to swap) and the 2012 picks.

Assuming you stand pat as you say, you perfectly ok with handing them two lotto picks?

My thoughts exactly.

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dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Believe it or not it was suggested earlier in this thread that he might give a hometown discount. Also, of everyone suggesting we had all these options, no one could name specific ones. Nash was the only one I could think of. We weren't getting cp3, Dwight, or harden. Could have had Dwill via trade instead of Melo but we know that wouldn't have helped. The grass isn't always Greener.

What do you mean no one could name specific ones? I've written many times about what I wanted the team to do. Of course I can't say for sure what trade proposals other teams would agree to though.

What it comes down to is no one can name any available players or scenarios that could have happened that put us in better position then we are today. At least nothing realistic. It's easy to say something else is better because people think the grass is always greener. But nothing specific.

What it comes down to you is you're being ridiculous. Of course, I can't say what teams would accept what offers. I wanted to build as many assets as possible from the day Lebron et al. turned us down and I do believe we could have made a strong offer for Harden. If we were turned down, then we'd keep rebuilding. Morey's showing that you can tear it down and rebuild and still stay around .550 or better if you use the right analytics. It's not like we would have suffered through something worse than what we have now anyway.

I really dont think the Knicks can eve compete with the Harden deal.

OKC received a nice expirer and a lotto pick.

But meanwhile through this "rebuilding" I'd aaume the team would still be led with amare in a suit more than jersey.

No way the Knicks would have stood pat, if anything we probably would have been the idiots stuck with Bynum.

Hell no. I'm describing what direction I wanted the team to go in once it was clear Lebron and Wade turned us down. And from the beginning, I was saying no to Amare.

Ok, so now i get it.

So essentially with no Lebron you stand pat....cool.

So what do you do when the losses pile up, keep in mind this was a 23 win teams before 2010, those assets dont like like much with all that losing.

Also keep in mind that Walsh gave away the 2011 (rights to swap) and the 2012 picks.

Assuming you stand pat as you say, you perfectly ok with handing them two lotto picks?

My thoughts exactly.

We were basically a lottery team anyway - 42-40, plus 0-4 in the post-season. As might as well build towards something worthwhile if you're going to suck.

You mean help Houston build?

LOL. This discussion obviously isn't going anywhere. If you're dead set on believing that it was impossible to put together a team with a brighter future than this one, then no one will change your mind.

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dk7th wrote:the league is trending towards advanced stats and advanced stats players.

gallinari is an advanced stat player. his floor impact is not as obvious to the untrained eye but it is there.

he's a bargain at the contract he was immediately offered.

exactly

So advanced stats outweigh the fact that his regular stats suck? Do advanced stats give any credence to the other players the "advanced stat" guy is playing with on the court?

The funny thing is that if Galloput up those numbers in a Knicks uniform people would be screaming for his head but since he's in Denver and some BS advanced stats say he's better than his crap numbers all is good.

Liked Gallo a ton before the trade but the fact remains that the term "potential" has been used to describe him since he came into the league. He's going into his 7th year and shoots slightly better than Ray Felton.

I didn't know his regular season stats sucked.. all I know is that when he is on the floor.. the nuggets were a good team.. 57 wins good..

but he did say that the league is trending towards advanced stats, so make of it what you may...

16.2 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.5 ASTS on .418% shooting. The key is the Nuggets were a good team period. The Nuggets went 7-3 without him in the regular season and IMHO even with Gallo the Nuggets don't get passed the Warriors.

Personally I don't see how the league is trending towards advanced stats but I of course could be wrong as advanced stats state that Gallo is a much better player than he actually is.

FG% is so 90s. You're ignoring that he shoots very well from 3 point range, does a good amount of damage from the foul line, and has a great assist:to ratio.
Once you factor all that in, you get a player who scores about 109 points per 100 possessions while giving up 102 per 100 possessions, which is pretty darn good (http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerGeneral.html?MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&sortField=PLAYER_NAME&sortOrder=ASC&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&rowsPerPage=100&filters=GP*GE*40).
That said, I wouldn't glamorize Gallo. I was 50/50 on keeping him past his rookie contract. An 8 figure annual salary is a lot to commit to someone and he had many question marks.

He's had a good year from 3 land this season but his 3PT% is all over the place. He's also a good FT shooter but hasn't gone to the line as often since the NBA nixed the create contact by bringing the ball from below which he was becoming a master at. He doesn't turn the ball over much but also doesn't dish the ball all that well either...2.2 asts vs 1.6 TO's for his career.

I've always liked Gallo, just think that some here make him to be more than he is.

FG% is so 90's? ROFL....good one.

who made him out to me more than he is? did anyone here call him a superstar? Hall of famer? no, some of us felt he was a good young talent with potential.... and that is exactly what he is, and he is turning into a good basketball player. For those of us who hated the trade it was assumed that we felt gallo was the greatest thing since sliced bread when in reality we didn't want to trade young assets, good assets, for carmelo... simple.

He's always been a good basketball player but he hasn't gotten much better either. The guy is going into his 7th year in the league and what you see from his is what you're going to get. People just want to contuniously harp over the trade like it happened yesterday. For example trading young, good assets. Yup Chandler, Gallo, Moz, picks, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

The trade is done and Melo is here. People need to learn to deal with it or move on to the Nuggets, Rockets or whatever other team they choose to root for.

nice try, but he is going into his 6th year in the league and really just his 5th considering his rookie year was shot... and if you think he hasn't gotten better, well either you don't know much about basketball, are blind or just don't watch him play.. either way the comment is somewhat hilarious.. anyway I know where that stems from, so I will move on.. lol

IMHO the best asset we gave up was Gallo and in reality he's a 42% shooter going into his 7th year, coming off of a torn ACL.

again, not sure why you keep adding years to his time in the league, I guess you feel it supports your argument, but gallo didn't have a torn acl at the time of the trade so what does that have to do with anything... You guys feel shumpert is the next paul George coming off a torn ACL so by those standards, gallo is headed for dirksville I guess.. smh

And if you think Gallo is the only asset we gave up, I guess we can ignore chandler, and moz, and i find it funny how you guys bag on moz yet put hope in that broken down camby.. a guy whom we gave up second round picks to acquire and now we are looking to buy a second round pick.. rofl..

also the first round pick and the swap in 2016 have a ton of value.. if not, then lets just give up our first round pick this year, since you feel it isn't much of an asset.. you guys crack me up man..

the fact is, some of us didn't want to make this trade because it was just way too much for an overrated, one dimensional 43%/23 shot per game chucker, with the worst active playoff record in NBA history..

I'm sorry, but make this about gallo all you want.. some of us just didn't want this hump...

My bad, you're correct that he's going into his 6th year.

I get it Gallo is a much better player today becuase he avarage 16 points a game. Must have something to do with the 2 additonal shots he took this year. The bottom line is that he shoots.419 for his career. That's .418 this year, .414 the year before, .414 in 2010-2011, .423 in 2009-2010 but did shoot 44% in his rookie year which shouldn't count for anything and you yourself stated that year was shot. Since he became the MAN in Denver he added an additonal assist per game and goes to the free throw line less. Since I don't know basketball and don't watch him play, please explain to me how Gallo has become a better player although his numbers have been steady for his entire career. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid, always have but IMHO he's nothing more than a solid NBA player.

Wilson Chandler? He's actually going into his 7th season and again is a solid NBA player. Would be much better if he could stay healthy and stay on the court. Again, for a guy with potential he has gotten better since leaving either.

Mozgov, seriously? A work in progress to say the least who must have splinters in his arese from sitting on the bench so damn long.

Bottome line is that many feel that we overpaid for Melo. Do I? YES!!!!!! If Dolan would have left Walsh alone to do his thing it may have turned out differently but it didn't. So we have what we have. However, there is simply no need to continously biatch over it...there's no changing the past.

IMHO, this mess all started with overpaying for STAT. When the Knicks pulled the trigger on the Melo trade it was to team Melo with STAT. They grabbed Chandler from Dallas and the plan was to build around them. The problem now is STAT who were are stuck with until his contract expires or can find a team after next season who wants his expiring contract.

I don't want to hear anything about Melo being greedy either. He did what any other player in the league does and got his money, exactly what Chris Paul will be doing this summer. It's alway easy to look back and say could have, would have, should have but in reality there is no way to know what would have actually happened.

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

As long as the Knicks don't phuk things up we have a ton of flexibility come the 2015/2016 season and I feel it all comes down to what Melo wants to do.

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I think you are approaching this the wrong way... gallo takes very few shots per game, now would i like to see him shoot better than 42%, of course, but what gallo does goes beyond just scoring, which I said is key to being a good ball player.. Now gallo is a better player not because he averages 16ppg that is a very narrow way of looking at things.. He is a better ball player now because he has expanded his game to do more things, he is a better facilitator, ball mover, defender, and a big shot maker for the nuggets.. He doesn't turn the ball over either..

Chandler is another one of those solid players, can play 3 positions, can score points when needed and defend 3 positions.

I mentioned moz because as it stands now the knicks have NO size....

I sit back and watch you guys complain about not having help, looking at other teams lance stephenson's and kawai leonard's.. well we had that... No one is saying chandler and gallo are great players, but they were damn good ones and improving... I also find it funny how in his 11th year people expect carmelo to "learn from this", " morph into paul pierce"... to get better defensively.. YET.. YET, guys like gallo and chandler are Done, they are a finished product.. That is just not consistent in thinking at all!

After a decade of straight losing basketball we won the Atlantic and actually made it out of the first round. We lost in the 2nd a team that almost took out the Heat. Not what anyone here wanted but it is what it is. At minium we have 2 more seasons of competitive 50 win basketball, maybe 2 more Atlantic Division Titles and lets see what happens come playoff time.

who cares, If I pay BMW price, I want BMW performance, telling me my BMW went a year without breaking down is no big deal.. I can get that with a 15k kia....

I want BMW performance , world class performance... that is what we paid for.. And we are not getting it with carmelo... now does that mean I am overrating the kia? No, I am just holding the BMW accountable for underpeforming, and In this case, I knew what we were getting with carmelo... we paid BMW prices but really got a volkswagon..

Melo has a player option for 2014/2015. Does he take the option for his $23.5 mil? Does he turn down the option and sign for less to give the Knicks flexibilty and to set them up for the following season? All I know is that the Knicks are a better team with him than without him....it just comes down to the price.

I pray to GOD and everything that is sacred that he opts out and the knicks move in another direction.. I don't want a 31 year old volume shooter signed here for another 4 years... if the knicks do resign him, I will take a real break from this team until he is gone... I am tired of rooting for teams that insist on doing business this way... obtaining low class, low character , one dimension players.. I am sick and tired of it....

I'm just not exactly sure what he has done to be low class and low character in your eyes. If that is the case, the same argument can be made about Kobe, Lebron, Dwight, CP3, etc for the way they have handled themselves in one way or another in their career. By all accounts, he is a good guy who is passionate about being here and helping us win. He may not always go about it the right way, and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy. You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person. You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

he has no integrity he put his own issues ahead of winning and the team, he is passionate about his pockets, being here is just secondary.. don't be fooled.. I don't care about lebron, or kobe, or dwight, I don't, why bring them up... 2 of those guys have rings, the other has been to a final.. not sure where chris paul fits here as well.. but to lebrons credit, he did take less money to put himself in position to win.

In the end, if you are going to be a douchebag.. just win.... carmelo doesn't win..

and still has some growing up to do like most 28-29 year olds, but is a good guy

LOL you act as if he is 18 year old kid.. Growing up to do? this is a MANS business, he has been in the league 11 years, growing up is done, As far as sports go, he is in the golden years almost.. you don't usually play 15-20 years bro... carmelo is what he is... and the talk of building around him just makes me vomit in my mouth....

You are letting your dislike for his game and love for the players we traded for him affect your opinion of him as a person.

NO! I am letting my hatred for his game speak for itself.. I don't like him as a player, the way he plays, the way he approaches the game..

As a person, I am letting the way he acts, the decisions he makes, his actions determine how I feel about him as a person... I think he is a weak minded, selfish individual, who has no clue on what it takes to be a champion or winner.. he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

You don't have to like him, but it's comments like these that make people view your opionions as over the top and can't be taken too serious.

I am more than willing to pull this clowns resume to the carpet and judge him from that, and if you do the same, you will see that we got an overrated, overpaid, self absorbed loser... nothing more... call it over the top, fine, I feel the same way about the praise heaped upon him around here..

" who can we get to join forces with melo'
" who is the perfect forward to compliment melo"
"melo needs help"
" hats off to you melo although you shot 10-35, that is not your fault"
" building around melo"
" a future with melo"
" getting help for melo"
" these are the types of role players that can maximize melo"

And you call my comments over the top.. How about lets look out what is best for the knicks.. To hell with this bozo.. maybe then you will get more positive comments.. I for one minute don't believe that the success of the knicks will include this fool... You guys are so punch drunk with having to win with "melo as the centerpiece" It isn't going to happen... There is so much historical data on this guy it is too hard to ignore... and no, it has nothing to do with his coach in denver, dantono, pierce, lebron, wade, having no help.. NO.. It has everything to do with this guy.. he has bad karma, a bad aura, no leadership whatsoever...

Being a winner and champion requires special talent, special teams, special effort, special level of sacrifice, special individuals... Lebron is special, Duncan is special, in his own way kobe was special, shaq, Billups was, Hakeem, Dirk, wade, parker,Garnett, pierce, ginobili, all of these guys displayed something special and it transformed the teams they were on.. Carmelo does none of that. instead he needs a baby sitter, he needs role players to maximize his talents.. LOL.. that is hilarious.. he needs a coach who will pacify him.. and even when given all of that, he fails when it matters the most..

LETS BE CLEAR AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ANYMORE

I WANT THIS FOOL AS FAR AWAY FROM THE KNICKS AS POSSIBLE, AND HE CAN TAKE HIS MENTAL MIDGET BUDDY JR SMITH WITH HIM....

THE TICKET IS ON ME!!

Point taken. Disagree with most of it. Might be time for you to consider another team to root for as you clearly are no longer rooting for this team and have put your hate of a player above the team. Hoping this team loses each game the next 5-8 years won't be fun for you. I would not blame you one bit. In the meantime i will enjoy this team being good as we haven't seen this success in a long, long time.

Actually all I hope for is this team to one day get it right, nothing would make me happier, and that would start by taking an enema to this fools gold roster...

I have hope, which is why I am still around.. once that runs out, then adios...

I am a NBA fan, I enjoy the game, would be great for my team to actually be one that is build on a solid foundation with a legit chance to win year in and year out, but the owner of this team is a bafoon,who backs bafoons... not a good thing..

In that case then just enjoy us winning 54 games and winning some playoffs series for the time being. I understand you are thinking big picture, but we are a good team who should continue to be good for quite some time. We have come a long ways in 2-3 years.

we were building a good team with the ability to become a great team with some patience.. we had the assets, cap space and picks.. so really winning 5 games with no real chance at a ring and an aging team doesn't excite me.... Do you really think this team wins 50 games next year? I don't..

That's the difference between you and me. I do think our next team wins 50+ games. We were a .500 team when the trigger was pulled on the trade. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Melo at $20 million than Gallo and Wilson at $17 million.

Oh no but gallo would have given us a home town discount and we could have used our assets and cap space to acquire cp3, Dwight, and harden lol. That is the thought process to some.

lol. I don't know anyone who has that belief but it's just as bad as the belief that our only two options were keeping the exact roster intact and trading everything for Melo.

Believe it or not it was suggested earlier in this thread that he might give a hometown discount. Also, of everyone suggesting we had all these options, no one could name specific ones. Nash was the only one I could think of. We weren't getting cp3, Dwight, or harden. Could have had Dwill via trade instead of Melo but we know that wouldn't have helped. The grass isn't always Greener.

What do you mean no one could name specific ones? I've written many times about what I wanted the team to do. Of course I can't say for sure what trade proposals other teams would agree to though.

What it comes down to is no one can name any available players or scenarios that could have happened that put us in better position then we are today. At least nothing realistic. It's easy to say something else is better because people think the grass is always greener. But nothing specific.

What it comes down to you is you're being ridiculous. Of course, I can't say what teams would accept what offers. I wanted to build as many assets as possible from the day Lebron et al. turned us down and I do believe we could have made a strong offer for Harden. If we were turned down, then we'd keep rebuilding. Morey's showing that you can tear it down and rebuild and still stay around .550 or better if you use the right analytics. It's not like we would have suffered through something worse than what we have now anyway.

I really dont think the Knicks can eve compete with the Harden deal.

OKC received a nice expirer and a lotto pick.

But meanwhile through this "rebuilding" I'd aaume the team would still be led with amare in a suit more than jersey.

No way the Knicks would have stood pat, if anything we probably would have been the idiots stuck with Bynum.

Hell no. I'm describing what direction I wanted the team to go in once it was clear Lebron and Wade turned us down. And from the beginning, I was saying no to Amare.

Ok, so now i get it.

So essentially with no Lebron you stand pat....cool.

So what do you do when the losses pile up, keep in mind this was a 23 win teams before 2010, those assets dont like like much with all that losing.

Also keep in mind that Walsh gave away the 2011 (rights to swap) and the 2012 picks.

Assuming you stand pat as you say, you perfectly ok with handing them two lotto picks?

My thoughts exactly.

We were basically a lottery team anyway - 42-40, plus 0-4 in the post-season. As might as well build towards something worthwhile if you're going to suck.

You mean help Houston build?

LOL. This discussion obviously isn't going anywhere. If you're dead set on believing that it was impossible to put together a team with a brighter future than this one, then no one will change your mind.

All I'm showing you is the basic impacts of the deals that were made PRIOR to 2010 and their effects.

Handing over multiple lotto picks certainly is NOT better than what we have now.