If this is the Douglas we can expect the rest of the season, and I join those who wish this is a product of him being healthy, we'll be fine at G without signing a new PG. I'd still love to do it, but a solid Douglas is a great addition.

Magic fell to 6th seed???? hahahahahahahah.

nixluva wrote:

y2zipper wrote:D'Antoni has a rap for not adapting his system to the players and for quitting when people question it's obvious flaws when things get tough.

Can we please stop with the nonsense talk about MDA's system having flaws and him running when things get tough. There are some real positives to his style and that's how you can not have Joe Johnson or STAT, no center and play Diaw at center and still get to the WCF's. You can't do that if the system doesn't have some great qualities. It's easy to bash the guy for not getting to the finals but he was right at the precipice a couple of times despite not having the size you usually need to win a title. Let's just be glad that he made the right choice rather than stick around and continue to have the team struggling. He made the right call. He's not the GM of the Knicks or the owner. He was just the coach. He had a flash of time where he could really run his system with a capable PG with Felton and Lin and that was it. Things looked good in both instances. Now the team is in Woody's hands and they still have a shot to do big things.

MDA had one GREAT quality in PHX:

STEVE NASH

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

y2zipper wrote:D'Antoni has a rap for not adapting his system to the players and for quitting when people question it's obvious flaws when things get tough.

Can we please stop with the nonsense talk about MDA's system having flaws and him running when things get tough. There are some real positives to his style and that's how you can not have Joe Johnson or STAT, no center and play Diaw at center and still get to the WCF's. You can't do that if the system doesn't have some great qualities. It's easy to bash the guy for not getting to the finals but he was right at the precipice a couple of times despite not having the size you usually need to win a title. Let's just be glad that he made the right choice rather than stick around and continue to have the team struggling. He made the right call. He's not the GM of the Knicks or the owner. He was just the coach. He had a flash of time where he could really run his system with a capable PG with Felton and Lin and that was it. Things looked good in both instances. Now the team is in Woody's hands and they still have a shot to do big things.

MDA had one GREAT quality in PHX:

STEVE NASH

No one can win with one player! You seriously underestimate how MDA got that team to work despite being the smallest team to possibly make it to a WCF. You underestimate the quality of the competition back then in the West! It's not like they were in the weak Eastern conference doing this. If you can give PJax credit for winning titles with Jordan and Pippen and Kobe and Shaq, then at least give Mike his credit for coaching a team with nowhere near that level of talent to a WCF. Do you even realize the lack of size and depth that team had and still they beat every other team out in the West except one that year.

As Bruce Bowen stated on ESPN when asked who is the best play maker he's ever seen: "Steve Nash hands down - he was unstoppable"

I remember watching him thinking "how do you stop this guy?" and I realized, YOU CAN'T

PHX did not have one player. They had a VERY GOOD TEAM. They were undersized at times but that works for MDA as size hurts his SYSTEM. So that is not an argument.

MDA did a good job in PHX. If he got them to play better defense (not ranked 15th-19th) they probably could have won it all. Nash was unstoppable and he knew how to make everyone better and look great. Including the coach. All they needed was a few stops on defense.

I would love to see MDA go to Orlando. That would be the best sitcom of 2012-2013.

nixluva wrote:

y2zipper wrote:D'Antoni has a rap for not adapting his system to the players and for quitting when people question it's obvious flaws when things get tough.

Can we please stop with the nonsense talk about MDA's system having flaws and him running when things get tough. There are some real positives to his style and that's how you can not have Joe Johnson or STAT, no center and play Diaw at center and still get to the WCF's. You can't do that if the system doesn't have some great qualities. It's easy to bash the guy for not getting to the finals but he was right at the precipice a couple of times despite not having the size you usually need to win a title. Let's just be glad that he made the right choice rather than stick around and continue to have the team struggling. He made the right call. He's not the GM of the Knicks or the owner. He was just the coach. He had a flash of time where he could really run his system with a capable PG with Felton and Lin and that was it. Things looked good in both instances. Now the team is in Woody's hands and they still have a shot to do big things.

The system doesn't preach the defensive end of two-way basketball and doesn't work when there isn't a capable point guard, even when the team is really talented. Saying that doesn't mean I hate D'Antoni or the system. I'm just pointing out the truth. D'Antoni ran when Phoenix wanted
him to adapt and ran again when he was unable to adapt his system to the players New York acquired last season. I like D'Antoni as a coach and he's done impressive things in Phoenix, but it's obvious that any team he coaches has to be built a certain way for him to have success. His system thrives on good point guard play, a dominant pick and roll big man and cheap, interchangable wing players on the perimeter. It has its good and bad qualities and everyone should recognize both.

New York clearly wasn't able to acquire the players that D'Antoni needs to be successful. Maybe that's on Knicks management, but teams have to acquire the elite players that become available and then hire a coach to fit the players. That doesn't sound fair or right to some, but that's how the NBA works. There's a few elite players that control everything. Maybe Carmelo Anthony and STAT aren't the ideal ones, but they're the ones that were willing and able to come to New York so we have to pick them up and see where we can go.

Clearly Woodson is a better fit for this team than D'Antoni was.

I wonder if Melo whispered into Howard's ear after the game, "Keep dogging it, they have to fire the coach, you are the franchise, not Stan Fat Gundy"

TD looked great last night. Nice turn around from the night before. He still makes some real bad decisions passing but if he can regain his shooting touch and play solid D, he can find some minutes.

I still think Lin is needed as the main PG on this team. BD can play his 20 off the bench but if he cannot cut it, TD is there. Most importantly, the defense with Shumpert on the court is absolutely needed. TD and Shumpert can make Chandler's job a bit easier.

y2zipper wrote:

nixluva wrote:

y2zipper wrote:D'Antoni has a rap for not adapting his system to the players and for quitting when people question it's obvious flaws when things get tough.

Can we please stop with the nonsense talk about MDA's system having flaws and him running when things get tough. There are some real positives to his style and that's how you can not have Joe Johnson or STAT, no center and play Diaw at center and still get to the WCF's. You can't do that if the system doesn't have some great qualities. It's easy to bash the guy for not getting to the finals but he was right at the precipice a couple of times despite not having the size you usually need to win a title. Let's just be glad that he made the right choice rather than stick around and continue to have the team struggling. He made the right call. He's not the GM of the Knicks or the owner. He was just the coach. He had a flash of time where he could really run his system with a capable PG with Felton and Lin and that was it. Things looked good in both instances. Now the team is in Woody's hands and they still have a shot to do big things.

The system doesn't preach the defensive end of two-way basketball and doesn't work when there isn't a capable point guard, even when the team is really talented. Saying that doesn't mean I hate D'Antoni or the system. I'm just pointing out the truth. D'Antoni ran when Phoenix wanted
him to adapt and ran again when he was unable to adapt his system to the players New York acquired last season. I like D'Antoni as a coach and he's done impressive things in Phoenix, but it's obvious that any team he coaches has to be built a certain way for him to have success. His system thrives on good point guard play, a dominant pick and roll big man and cheap, interchangable wing players on the perimeter. It has its good and bad qualities and everyone should recognize both.

New York clearly wasn't able to acquire the players that D'Antoni needs to be successful. Maybe that's on Knicks management, but teams have to acquire the elite players that become available and then hire a coach to fit the players. That doesn't sound fair or right to some, but that's how the NBA works. There's a few elite players that control everything. Maybe Carmelo Anthony and STAT aren't the ideal ones, but they're the ones that were willing and able to come to New York so we have to pick them up and see where we can go.

Clearly Woodson is a better fit for this team than D'Antoni was.

Agree that Woodson is a better fit for this team than MDA was. You gotta admit though MDA's job was not made easier by Melo basically deciding "F this dude."

Very difficult for ANY coach to win with their franchise player in F You mode. Woody seems to be much better at communicating with players whereas MDA never seemed to talk to Marbury (when he decided not to start him), Darko, Randolph, etc.

What is funny about a lot of people's criticisms of MDA is the argument I commonly hear is "Oh he never won anything" which is SO illogical. It is as illogical as saying Melo sucks because he never made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs.

See:

MDA/MDA's system sucks because he never won an NBA championship. He only had whatever success he had because of Nash and the supporting cast.

If you're going to apply this "logic" then you could make the equally ridiculous argument that

Jerry Sloan and his system suck because he never won an NBA championship. He only had whatever success he had because of Stockton and Malone and then Deron Williams.

see?

Same thing can be done with

Melo sucks because he never made it out of the 1st round.

If we're going to have arguments, they would be a lot more productive/interesting/stimulating/less PAINFUL to read over and over if they weren't filled with stuff like the above.

BTW i'm not referring to you y2kzipper but just to some other more rabidly extreme anti Melo/anti MDA camps on the board. Most of your points are legit though I wonder how well MDA would have done with Melo playing as hard on D and moving the ball as well as he does now.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

y2zipper wrote:

nixluva wrote:

y2zipper wrote:D'Antoni has a rap for not adapting his system to the players and for quitting when people question it's obvious flaws when things get tough.

Can we please stop with the nonsense talk about MDA's system having flaws and him running when things get tough. There are some real positives to his style and that's how you can not have Joe Johnson or STAT, no center and play Diaw at center and still get to the WCF's. You can't do that if the system doesn't have some great qualities. It's easy to bash the guy for not getting to the finals but he was right at the precipice a couple of times despite not having the size you usually need to win a title. Let's just be glad that he made the right choice rather than stick around and continue to have the team struggling. He made the right call. He's not the GM of the Knicks or the owner. He was just the coach. He had a flash of time where he could really run his system with a capable PG with Felton and Lin and that was it. Things looked good in both instances. Now the team is in Woody's hands and they still have a shot to do big things.

The system doesn't preach the defensive end of two-way basketball and doesn't work when there isn't a capable point guard, even when the team is really talented. Saying that doesn't mean I hate D'Antoni or the system. I'm just pointing out the truth. D'Antoni ran when Phoenix wanted
him to adapt and ran again when he was unable to adapt his system to the players New York acquired last season. I like D'Antoni as a coach and he's done impressive things in Phoenix, but it's obvious that any team he coaches has to be built a certain way for him to have success. His system thrives on good point guard play, a dominant pick and roll big man and cheap, interchangable wing players on the perimeter. It has its good and bad qualities and everyone should recognize both.

New York clearly wasn't able to acquire the players that D'Antoni needs to be successful. Maybe that's on Knicks management, but teams have to acquire the elite players that become available and then hire a coach to fit the players. That doesn't sound fair or right to some, but that's how the NBA works. There's a few elite players that control everything. Maybe Carmelo Anthony and STAT aren't the ideal ones, but they're the ones that were willing and able to come to New York so we have to pick them up and see where we can go.

Clearly Woodson is a better fit for this team than D'Antoni was.

Agree that Woodson is a better fit for this team than MDA was. You gotta admit though MDA's job was not made easier by Melo basically deciding "F this dude."

Very difficult for ANY coach to win with their franchise player in F You mode. Woody seems to be much better at communicating with players whereas MDA never seemed to talk to Marbury (when he decided not to start him), Darko, Randolph, etc.

What is funny about a lot of people's criticisms of MDA is the argument I commonly hear is "Oh he never won anything" which is SO illogical. It is as illogical as saying Melo sucks because he never made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs.

See:

MDA/MDA's system sucks because he never won an NBA championship. He only had whatever success he had because of Nash and the supporting cast.

If you're going to apply this "logic" then you could make the equally ridiculous argument that

Jerry Sloan and his system suck because he never won an NBA championship. He only had whatever success he had because of Stockton and Malone and then Deron Williams.

see?

Same thing can be done with

Melo sucks because he never made it out of the 1st round.

If we're going to have arguments, they would be a lot more productive/interesting/stimulating/less PAINFUL to read over and over if they weren't filled with stuff like the above.

BTW i'm not referring to you y2kzipper but just to some other more rabidly extreme anti Melo/anti MDA camps on the board. Most of your points are legit though I wonder how well MDA would have done with Melo playing as hard on D and moving the ball as well as he does now.

You make some legit points about the MDA camps here and you're right about that last part. Arguments like those happen because stupid people like to overrate championships as the only measure of success in the NBA. That's an argument perpetuated by media analysts who don't know anything about stats or basketball. Both camps have some legitimate points, but I really think the skinny is that if you give Mike D'Antoni a Mike D'Antoni roster (as I broke down earlier), you'll have success. You can see that looking at just this season, where New York was 10-15 and just awful offensively until a D'Antoni point guard fell out of the sky. It doesn't mean that D'Antoni is a bad coach, it just means that he isn't the right guy for this particular job. Nixluva bashes me because he thinks those last two points mean the same thing when they actually don't.

I don't know if it's fair to question Melo's effort or not. I agree that he wasn't playing as well under D'Antoni, but he was injured and he was asked to do something that wasn't his strength and those things should be taken into account. D'Antoni did the same thing with Toney Douglas, and it made Douglas look like an awful player too. Hell, Douglas got buried on the bench because he's a SG that can't run an offense and Mike D'Antoni asked him to be Nash. Douglas doesn't have the same clout as Melo, but it's interesting that he's actually playing well again (although I will concede that it is a small sample size).

The short was of putting it is that D'Antoni's approach to the job was looking for Steve Nash instead of using Carmelo Anthony and Toney Douglas to their strengths as players, like Woodson is doing. Other people have pointed out that the adjustments aren't that big, and maybe that's true, but then why wasn't D'Antoni able to make the adjustments that Woodson did? Isn't that a fair question?