nixluva wrote:It's not about how good Melo and Amar'e as individuals can play. This is about the fact that this team has yet to fully gel and it's still within the range of time we said it could take for them to develop chemistry. They play well in fits and starts. This is a process that took the Heat longer to achieve and they had a camp together. I still approve of the trade from a core building standpoint, tho not from an assets standpoint. No one wanted to give up so much to get Melo, but it was the price we had to pay once Dolan got involved and I would do it again, cuz it's not just about this year. We can clearly see what our needs are and what we need to do. Right now they need to keep fighting to find the right balance and chemistry. There's still time to do that.

We're not gellin' like Magelan. We will be gellin' really soon. I can feel it in the air. It's coming.

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

nixluva wrote:Mike would play a real C who has game.

Would he play a guy like Perkins more than 15 MPG? I really wonder, and that's what scares me.

small sample, but he played Moz about 25 MPG before trade.

8 games. Very small sample.

He also rode pine in many games, averaged 13 mins in games played, and is a better offensive player than Perk.

The pine, very much so. Dude was horrid and over his head during his stint at the beginning of the year; anti-Landry.

My guess is that Moz would have started the rest of the year if there were no trade. Just a guess.

Is Perkins any worse offensively than Turiaf, JJ? I think he matches their defense (in a different way).

Right, he digs in, bodies up and holds his ground. D' seems to like willowy types to flit about.

Like Moz? Or do you think he should play thick leg Sheldon some more?

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

Juice wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

Juice wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:13 more games to figure this sht out

Keep borrowing time until no games are left is the motto at the moment....

The sand in the hour glass hasn't emptied to the other side yet

This reminds me of the previous coach's last days here

I'm not trying to be sanguine, just stating the fact. 13 games is not a lot of time.

However, even the biggest pessimist knows 0-6 against below .500 talent is not the best this team is capable of.

Even the biggest Optimist knows we're not too much better than we were pre-trade(AT THE TIME THE TRADE WAS MADE)

I was never looking at 0-6 or whatever it is...

I look at the fact we have no answers for

Smardos
Eyengas
Delfinos
Luc Richards
Tony Allens
Wilcoxs(Young Stoundemire)
Hansbroughs
Marions
Jamisons
Nelsons
Jones

Yeah it's awful. The team is playing very uninspired. If this is the best they can do we're fukked, obviously.

As far as win and losses go, again, we were down-sloping as it was. While Amare is still putting up admirable stats, it's been a few months since he was playing legit MVP caliber ball. And Felton was looking like Tony Douglas (lots of shooting, not a lot of orchestrating.) We were really only good when both Amare and Felton were playing over their heads at the same time. It was good for 13-1, but not much beyond that stretch. So it's not like I'd have felt any more more confident going into this years playoffs with the old team.

But clearly we gave up way too many pieces just to tread water and be as good as we were. This level of play is depressing for all of us.

the way this team has played the lesser teams has been very disappointing, i'm totally with you on that, but we've played the better teams tough... i have no idea why this team continues to play down to the level of their competition... i think that's been a problem all year even before the Melo trade went down... seems to be more than a talent or even a team chemistry issue to me.

I think the problem is the fact we weren't that good to begin with and we aren't that good now. What I mean begin with, I'm talking team walking into camp at season's beginning. I said this team would win between 37-42games. Best case was 45-48gms

What makes me angry is the fact WE'VE HAVE SEEN THE BEST OF MELO AND AMAR'E. They will not get better as players only with one exception unless they become defensive stalwarts or improve immensely on this side of the ball. We're hoping they don't decline fast. Meanwhile WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE CEILING OF GALLO/CHANDLER/AR/MOZ WERE... plus adding 4 picks in the trade 2 1rst 1 of them right for swap and 2 2nd rounders was mind numbing.

Also if we don't start playing well soon and I'm talking about playing well to the point we show some togetherness regardless of results no player of note/impact will want to come here. The MEDIA still runs the show. Until this changes then we'll truly know the culture has changed.

As far as the coach is concerned he hasn't managed to get the roster to over achieve or play at peak any of his yrs here. That's a problem regardless of roster turnover. He gets paid $6mil/yr to be a difference maker not some run of the mill mistro.

i'm not sure how we've already seen the best out of Melo & Stat when the Miami Heat were scuffling their 1st 2 months together was there little hope for improvement from that squad? i don't really care about the ceiling of Gallo, Wilson, Timo & AR i am highly doubtful any of them will ever be as good a player as Melo has been his entire career... i personally don't think DW makes that trade if any of that were in question.

i am with u i am expecting to see much better results & much better togetherness on the floor none of this is unreasonable, but i'm not jumping ship on the talent we currently have because we're 7-8 or whatever it is after 2 weeks of play... can't do it... talk to me after the playoffs if we're still looking like a hot mess then we can start talking about a flawed roster or whatever else.

nixluva wrote:It's not about how good Melo and Amar'e as individuals can play. This is about the fact that this team has yet to fully gel and it's still within the range of time we said it could take for them to develop chemistry. They play well in fits and starts. This is a process that took the Heat longer to achieve and they had a camp together. I still approve of the trade from a core building standpoint, tho not from an assets standpoint. No one wanted to give up so much to get Melo, but it was the price we had to pay once Dolan got involved and I would do it again, cuz it's not just about this year. We can clearly see what our needs are and what we need to do. Right now they need to keep fighting to find the right balance and chemistry. There's still time to do that.

The other team needed time to prove what they could be too. Have you ever seen Gallo or Chandler perform in the playoffs? Didn't you want to see what this coach could have done in the playoffs with major depth? The argument was the kids ran out of time and the trade needed to be made. Which means this current group doesn't have time to waste. Not sure why you're having difficulty seeing the double standard here with the camp argument. The Heat still haven't figured things out either. Plenty team needs remain post trade and we have limited resources going forward to acquire them unless the CBA gets modified in our favor.

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

nixluva wrote:Mike would play a real C who has game.

Would he play a guy like Perkins more than 15 MPG? I really wonder, and that's what scares me.

small sample, but he played Moz about 25 MPG before trade.

8 games. Very small sample.

He also rode pine in many games, averaged 13 mins in games played, and is a better offensive player than Perk.

The pine, very much so. Dude was horrid and over his head during his stint at the beginning of the year; anti-Landry.

My guess is that Moz would have started the rest of the year if there were no trade. Just a guess.

Is Perkins any worse offensively than Turiaf, JJ? I think he matches their defense (in a different way).

Right, he digs in, bodies up and holds his ground. D' seems to like willowy types to flit about.

Like Moz? Or do you think he should play thick leg Sheldon some more?

I'm questioning his will to play big-boned defensive centers for extended minutes over long small forwards.

If Moz, Jeffries and Perk were all on the team now who would get the most minutes? If Jeffires is anywhere close then you know what I'm talking about.

Regarding Jefferies: Over the past 4 games he has only started 2 and for this year he plays 25 min a game. Not really an endorsement of a coach. And even when Sheldon (I guess) failed today, he went to Turiaf to start second half.

I gotta believe that MDA is just drawing a straws with his C spot. He knows Amare just sucks at defense, with Chandler and Gallo he at least had 2 guys that would try at the PF/SF spots to make up for whatever Amare wasn't doing at C, not so much any more.

What can you do. Maybe Brown will be given a shot.

Juice wrote:Atlanta Hawks aren't that bad either...GET THE POINT?

You better hope there is no lockout and there's an agreement for a hard cap of around $70mil

We're not as good as you would like to make it out to be either.

I'm upset the trade was made but I'm now focused on results. 15gms we look awful.

Billups has looked plain bad at running the offense. He isnt getting killed by faster guards and he isnt getting any younger.

Douglas unfortunately is a SG trapped in a PG's body. We need a facilitator. Amare and Melo are working WAY too hard to get baskets.

Watching Douglas makes me miss Duhon.

We could be better defensively with more effort put forth on that end by Melo and Amare. Problem is they are expending too much energy on the offensive end.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Juice wrote:Atlanta Hawks aren't that bad either...GET THE POINT?

You better hope there is no lockout and there's an agreement for a hard cap of around $70mil

We're not as good as you would like to make it out to be either.

I'm upset the trade was made but I'm now focused on results. 15gms we look awful.

Billups has looked plain bad at running the offense. He isnt getting killed by faster guards and he isnt getting any younger.

Douglas unfortunately is a SG trapped in a PG's body. We need a facilitator. Amare and Melo are working WAY too hard to get baskets.

Watching Douglas makes me miss Duhon.

We could be better defensively with more effort put forth on that end by Melo and Amare. Problem is they are expending too much energy on the offensive end.

I never bought into that line of reasoning. Wade and LeBron spending lots of energy on both ends. And so should Amare/Melo.

Amare and Melo are not Wade and Lebron athletically. Wade and Lebron are human tanks with great motors that were always known as solid defenders.

Amare and Melo are known to be part time defenders. They play defense in the playoffs when it counts and that all that matters to me.

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Juice wrote:Atlanta Hawks aren't that bad either...GET THE POINT?

You better hope there is no lockout and there's an agreement for a hard cap of around $70mil

We're not as good as you would like to make it out to be either.

I'm upset the trade was made but I'm now focused on results. 15gms we look awful.

Billups has looked plain bad at running the offense. He isnt getting killed by faster guards and he isnt getting any younger.

Douglas unfortunately is a SG trapped in a PG's body. We need a facilitator. Amare and Melo are working WAY too hard to get baskets.

Watching Douglas makes me miss Duhon.

We could be better defensively with more effort put forth on that end by Melo and Amare. Problem is they are expending too much energy on the offensive end.

I never bought into that line of reasoning. Wade and LeBron spending lots of energy on both ends. And so should Amare/Melo.

Amare and Melo are not Wade and Lebron athletically. Wade and Lebron are human tanks with great motors that were always known as solid defenders.

Amare and Melo are known to be part time defenders. They play defense in the playoffs when it counts and that all that matters to me.

never bought into that line of reasoning either. Defense is not just something you turn on during playoffs. You do it all the time, that's what winners do: they do the right thing for their teams all the time, offense or defense.

AnubisADL wrote:Does anyone else notice how stagnant the offense looks?
Teams dont even have to work hard because we do so much standing around. I dont know if it's because guys dont know tha plays or what but it is hurting us offensively.

If we had as much movement as the Bucks offense we'd be killing teams.

YES!

martin wrote:

I gotta believe that MDA is just drawing a straws with his C spot. He knows Amare just sucks at defense, with Chandler and Gallo he at least had 2 guys that would try at the PF/SF spots to make up for whatever Amare wasn't doing at C, not so much any more.

What can you do. Maybe Brown will be given a shot.

This is it exactly for me on defense. Gallo and Chandler weren't great rebounders, but were willing defenders who had length and athleticism. And Felton was a solid defender at the top of the key.

Now we have Melo and Chauncey and Shawne Williams filling those three roles most of the time - and they're smaller, not as lengthy and just nowhere near as active or aware on defense.

But as horrible as the defense has been...

AnubisADL wrote:Does anyone else notice how stagnant the offense looks?
Teams dont even have to work hard because we do so much standing around. I dont know if it's because guys dont know tha plays or what but it is hurting us offensively.
If we had as much movement as the Bucks offense we'd be killing teams.

This problem on offense is actually killing the team more right now. The offense is predictable, stagnant and it's forcing Melo and Amar'e to have to work too much for their points. We "held" the Bucks to 100pts and the Pistons to 99pts - that should be "good enough" for this team to win. This team should be scoring 105-110pts easy.

Defensive crappiness combined with offensive ineptitude is making this team about as fun to watch as an Isiah team. Oh, wait...

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:never bought into that line of reasoning either. Defense is not just something you turn on during playoffs. You do it all the time, that's what winners do: they do the right thing for their teams all the time, offense or defense.

Your 100% correct. They should play defense all the time.

Realistically that isnt going to happen. Amare and Melo have never been superb defenders. They have the tools but lack the will/focus to do it consistently.

I co-sign Martin here too. Defense isn't optional.

Not to mention both recently got hefty pay raises from us, therefore give us something extra in return. We're already giving them carte blanche offensively(system designed around their offensive strengths and for the most part unlimited freedom to chuck)

Which begs to question who is the LEADER of this team? Is it Amar'e still because at this point I don't see one clear leader

I hate the idea we have to bring in role players to cover major flaws in players who are supposed to be Superstars especially in their prime. We should be bringing in players who cover their minor flaws.