Posted by 30andOverClub:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by 30andOverClub:

See McK1, this is why I don't contribute to these forums that often: because some people here are just plain bonkers.

You said that Dumars trading Billups for Iverson was a great trade. But all that trade did was get Dumars cap space and comparable talent to Billups. If the Pistons are/were at the end, and Dumars is such a great GM, why isn't he following your plan of accumulating draft picks? He could have traded Billups, Hamilton, McDyess, and Rasheed for a load of draft picks. Instead, he signed Hamilton to an extension and let the rest of them just expire.

Dumars took over Detroit in 2000. Please check their record since he became GM.

Whats the W-L?

How many years in the play-offs?

How much post-season success did they have?

If fielding a true title contender 4 straight seasons isn't a defining mark of a great exec then I don't know what it is.


[Edited by - McK1 on 07-23-2009 10:30 AM]

Dumars is a great executive (IYO, IMO), yet he hasn't stockpiled draft picks in two consecutive rebuilds. In his first two years with Detroit, he traded for only 2 additional draft picks. In this current rebuild, he's added none when he easily could have.

If Dumars is a great executive when he doesn't stockpile draft picks, then why can't Walsh be a great executive when not stockpiling draft picks?

By the way, in Dumars first year in Detroit, the Pistons went 32-50. How familiar.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by 30andOverClub:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by 30andOverClub:

See McK1, this is why I don't contribute to these forums that often: because some people here are just plain bonkers.

You said that Dumars trading Billups for Iverson was a great trade. But all that trade did was get Dumars cap space and comparable talent to Billups. If the Pistons are/were at the end, and Dumars is such a great GM, why isn't he following your plan of accumulating draft picks? He could have traded Billups, Hamilton, McDyess, and Rasheed for a load of draft picks. Instead, he signed Hamilton to an extension and let the rest of them just expire.

Dumars took over Detroit in 2000. Please check their record since he became GM.

Whats the W-L?

How many years in the play-offs?

How much post-season success did they have?

If fielding a true title contender 4 straight seasons isn't a defining mark of a great exec then I don't know what it is.


[Edited by - McK1 on 07-23-2009 10:30 AM]

Dumars is a great executive (IYO, IMO), yet he hasn't stockpiled draft picks in two consecutive rebuilds. In his first two years with Detroit, he traded for only 2 additional draft picks. In this current rebuild, he's added none when he easily could have.

If Dumars is a great executive when he doesn't stockpile draft picks, then why can't Walsh be a great executive when not stockpiling draft picks?

By the way, in Dumars first year in Detroit, the Pistons went 32-50. How familiar.

He is spending money to rebuild. Ben Gordon and Charlie V are coming off rookie deals.

Walsh isn't stockpiling picks or spending.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-23-2009 12:23 PM]

Posted by martin:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by 30andOverClub:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by 30andOverClub:

See McK1, this is why I don't contribute to these forums that often: because some people here are just plain bonkers.

You said that Dumars trading Billups for Iverson was a great trade. But all that trade did was get Dumars cap space and comparable talent to Billups. If the Pistons are/were at the end, and Dumars is such a great GM, why isn't he following your plan of accumulating draft picks? He could have traded Billups, Hamilton, McDyess, and Rasheed for a load of draft picks. Instead, he signed Hamilton to an extension and let the rest of them just expire.

Dumars took over Detroit in 2000. Please check their record since he became GM.

Whats the W-L?

How many years in the play-offs?

How much post-season success did they have?

If fielding a true title contender 4 straight seasons isn't a defining mark of a great exec then I don't know what it is.


[Edited by - McK1 on 07-23-2009 10:30 AM]

Dumars is a great executive (IYO, IMO), yet he hasn't stockpiled draft picks in two consecutive rebuilds. In his first two years with Detroit, he traded for only 2 additional draft picks. In this current rebuild, he's added none when he easily could have.

If Dumars is a great executive when he doesn't stockpile draft picks, then why can't Walsh be a great executive when not stockpiling draft picks?

By the way, in Dumars first year in Detroit, the Pistons went 32-50. How familiar.

He is spending money to rebuild. Ben Gordon and Charlie V are coming off rookie deals.

Walsh isn't stockpiling picks or spending.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-23-2009 12:23 PM]

when you inherit a team that had 23 wins and players with bloated contracts, how are you supposed to stockpile picks? Donnie did buy one.

Also, how do you spend when you are over the cap outside of the MLE, which is still available for us to spend?

When you start judging Walsh on things that are within the realm of possibility, others will start to treat your opinions with more weight, until then it's just you posting stuff to see if it sticks.

When you start judging Walsh on things that are within the realm of possibility

Posted by TMS:

Posted by McK1:

When you start judging Walsh on things that are within the realm of possibility

Walsh effectively eliminated mostly all of the realm of poosibilities when he came out and said we will do nothing that will jeopardize NY's 010 cap room.

he didn't say that as an absolute... he left a window open in case someone he covets becomes available via trade at some point before next season.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

Posted by knicks1248:

I'm judging walsh up to today..not 2k10..and as you can see no ones really impress or confident he will be able to makes us a title contender..and he isn't doing anything remotely close to impressive thus far this off season..

His luke warm draft picks and trades haven't raise any attn what's so ever
This off season
MDA as well..his first full season as coach has lead us to 9 more wins and a massive controversial episode with marbury and a fragile high ass draft pick in DG.

We all are happy with the cap space and the flex room, but most of us are sick of hering a wait till next year.

How can you judge a GM after ONE season?

I don't think anyone is trying to say Walsh is a perfect GM. There is no such thing.

Even Isiah was given quite a few seasons and mistakes before people turned on him.

he has 2 drafts under his belt. its fair to start analyzing

2 drafts. How do you analyze guys that haven't played?

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

Posted by knicks1248:

I'm judging walsh up to today..not 2k10..and as you can see no ones really impress or confident he will be able to makes us a title contender..and he isn't doing anything remotely close to impressive thus far this off season..

His luke warm draft picks and trades haven't raise any attn what's so ever
This off season
MDA as well..his first full season as coach has lead us to 9 more wins and a massive controversial episode with marbury and a fragile high ass draft pick in DG.

We all are happy with the cap space and the flex room, but most of us are sick of hering a wait till next year.

How can you judge a GM after ONE season?

I don't think anyone is trying to say Walsh is a perfect GM. There is no such thing.

Even Isiah was given quite a few seasons and mistakes before people turned on him.

he has 2 drafts under his belt. its fair to start analyzing

2 drafts. How do you analyze guys that haven't played?

you can analyze a guys skillset and see the fit or lack there of

With Gallo there is always a role for a big guy who can stretch the defense with his shooting. Dunno if that makes him a top 6 pick and his back has thus far prevented us from seeing it. Still you can see the fit. Should Walsh have went defense with Randolph? In hindsight probably. His offense has caught up quick and the League is starting to put his name out there:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ai_61bVyPhzI.wWirOvXRHS8vLYF?slug=mc-randolphwarriors072109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

As for Gallo the bigger issue at the moment is does he have a back problem and did they know? At least before he went down in summer league he looked like he will put points on the board from outside as advertised.

Hill has a couple nice post moves. However he was for the most part slow running end to end. He offered zero resistance when defending the post. he was weak going to the defensive glass. he showed no defensive awareness when plays came towards his side of the floor. Could've paid Wilcox to bring the same height size athleticism and skillset. NY passed up alot of guard talent to draft this guy when the biggest hole in the roster is in the backcourt.

Douglas showed he can be a capable 3rd pg and good 4th guard overall. Excellent use of the 29th pick by Walsh. Any solid rotation has a guy like Tony Douglas off the bench. He may one day win the Anthony Johnson award.

Posted by eViL:

McK1, you don't think that Hill has shown he has better touch around the basket than Wilcox? I mean, I don't know much about the guys college bball career, but in SL he looked like he had way more offensive skill than CWil.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

Posted by knicks1248:

I'm judging walsh up to today..not 2k10..and as you can see no ones really impress or confident he will be able to makes us a title contender..and he isn't doing anything remotely close to impressive thus far this off season..

His luke warm draft picks and trades haven't raise any attn what's so ever
This off season
MDA as well..his first full season as coach has lead us to 9 more wins and a massive controversial episode with marbury and a fragile high ass draft pick in DG.

We all are happy with the cap space and the flex room, but most of us are sick of hering a wait till next year.

How can you judge a GM after ONE season?

I don't think anyone is trying to say Walsh is a perfect GM. There is no such thing.

Even Isiah was given quite a few seasons and mistakes before people turned on him.

he has 2 drafts under his belt. its fair to start analyzing

2 drafts. How do you analyze guys that haven't played?

you can analyze a guys skillset and see the fit or lack there of

With Gallo there is always a role for a big guy who can stretch the defense with his shooting. Dunno if that makes him a top 6 pick and his back has thus far prevented us from seeing it. Still you can see the fit. Should Walsh have went defense with Randolph? In hindsight probably. His offense has caught up quick and the League is starting to put his name out there:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ai_61bVyPhzI.wWirOvXRHS8vLYF?slug=mc-randolphwarriors072109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

As for Gallo the bigger issue at the moment is does he have a back problem and did they know? At least before he went down in summer league he looked like he will put points on the board from outside as advertised.

Hill has a couple nice post moves. However he was for the most part slow running end to end. He offered zero resistance when defending the post. he was weak going to the defensive glass. he showed no defensive awareness when plays came towards his side of the floor. Could've paid Wilcox to bring the same height size athleticism and skillset. NY passed up alot of guard talent to draft this guy when the biggest hole in the roster is in the backcourt.

Douglas showed he can be a capable 3rd pg and good 4th guard overall. Excellent use of the 29th pick by Walsh. Any solid rotation has a guy like Tony Douglas off the bench. He may one day win the Anthony Johnson award.

Actually the wording of my question was incorrect. You can analyze the draft picks the moment you see them play. You can analyze Walsh the moment he makes his first move. But how do you hold his draft picks against him when they haven't played? I've asked that a few times, still not sure I've gotten a legitimate answer. If Walsh drafts Hill, and I hate Hill and think he sucks, does that really matter. I can predict until the cows come home, but if the guy scores 30 points a game, what does my prediction mean. Last year, Walsh got killed for taking Gallinari over Bayless(among others). You get the point? Difficult to judge a guy on draft picks before those draft picks play.

Example: I thought Balkman was the dumbest draft pick in years. But despite my thought, I still was more than willing to let Balkman play out before I held Isiah accountable for it. I feel the same way about Hill and Gallinari. I had no idea who Gallinari was. I wanted Gordan or Alexander. But I have no problem giving Gallo time. Why not? Why upset myself for no reason? Same goes for Hill.